NDT taken together with L-tyrosine made me much worse. Any ideas why please?

Hi All

I am hypo with TSH at 3.74 (0.22-4.20) and TGO antibodies at 274 (<115)

My main symptom is muscle aches, mainly of the vastus medialis - I am a keen cyclist.

I have been taking 1NDT before breakfast and 500mg L-tyrosine 2 hours before bedtime - both on an empty stomach, for 3 weeks now.

And I have to say that this regime has definitely improved the muscle aches, but not quite eliminated them.

(and has also improved my sleep pattern)

So, experimenting, yesterday morning I took both NDT and L-tyrosine together before breakfast.

And, about 3 hours later, my aches were the worst they have ever been!

Today, the aches continued as worse as yesterday, so I have not taken either, and will give it a few more days and decide.

I would really welcome any ideas please on why taking both together has made my muscles so much worse, when I have had some success with taking them with a 16 hour gap in between.

Thank you and all the best on your own journey to good health!

Alps Holiday

[shaws Administrator]

I am not medically qualified but I'd never take two different medications together. Especially with thyroid hormones and any other medications.

I take thyroid hormones when I get up with one full glass of water and wait an hour before eating (food can interfere with the uptake). I'd then take any other medications around lunchtime or at any other time that suits - as long as they are continuous as I think changing times of doses might not have the affect we want, i.e. to relieve symptoms.

Maybe the following might be of interest to you and it is by an Adviser to TUK (he is now deceased).

naturalthyroidsolutions.com...

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

Thank you shaws

A baanced reply, as usual

Yes taking the 2 together may well be contrandicated

Hopefully, the extra aches wll go away soon

Thank you

ALps

[humanbean]

Just a personal anecdote...

I took L-Tyrosine for a while, during one of those times when desperation hit. It gave me dreadful headaches every single day, and I wouldn't take it again.

[Hidden in reply to humanbean]

Sorry to hear you had bad headaches from l-tyrosine humanbean

All the best

Alps

[Hidden]

Who do you take L-Tyrosine?

1 grain of NDT is a low dose which provides ca 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T4 daily (depending on brand). A common maintenance dose is often said to be 3-3.5 grains daily, with some needing less and some more. But I am not surprised you are still having symptoms after only three weeks and on such a low dose.

You need to have labs regularly (every 6-8 weeks) to make sure your free T4 and free T3 rise and your TSH decreases.

Has a doctor put you on NDT, or are you self-medicating (curious as few doctors prescribe NDT)?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Thanks cat68

I read that l-tyrosine can help, so tried it with some success at night time

Then, experimenting, tried morning, with NDT with an unpleasant result

I built up from 1/2 grain for 4 weeks, now on 1 grain

Self medicating, like so many here!

Thanks

Alps

[Wetsuiter]

if you were improving, why did you start experimenting?

[Hidden in reply to Wetsuiter]

Hi wetsuiter

I made some improvement with l-tyrosine at nighttime

But plateaued, so was trying a different time of day to see if it helped

It didn't!

Thanks

Alps

[Angel_of_the_North]

Taking a single amino acid can upset the balance of other amino acids. Generally, Tyrosine is "get up and go", not "relax", so is usually taken in the morning. If your thyroid cannot manufacture enough hormones, there's not much point taking the raw materials of thyroid hormone (tyrosine and iodine) as the thyroid cannot make use of them.

[Hidden in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thank you angelofthenorth for your valuable points

Alps

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I can only agree with what Angel of the North has said...I have Hashimoto's, diagnosed over 20 years ago, as well as adrenal fatigue, and I have not found a single supplement in all that time that made any noticeable difference to me. Not a single one. And, believe me, I've spent a fortune on supplements over the years, trying to "heal" my thyroid and adrenals back to health.

If you have been diagnosed with full-blown hypothyroidism, you will need to focus on finding the right kind of thyroid hormone hormone replacement for you (T4, T3+T4, NDT, or any combination thereof), and tweak dosages until complete symptom-relief. It was not clear from your previous posts whether or not you have a diagnosis, or why you chose to go on NDT...? In any case, if you have hypothyroidism, you are not likely to make a full recovery on a daily dose as low as 1 grain daily.

[Hidden]

Hi All

Thanks for all your help, much appreciated

Found this on WebMD

Tyrosine might increase how much thyroid hormone the body produces. Taking tyrosine with thyroid hormone pills might cause there to be too much thyroid hormone. This could increase the effects and side effects of thyroid hormones.

So, if that is correct, by mixing the 2 together on Tuesday morning, and on an empty stomach, probably caused a spike of thyroid meds in my system?

So, I shall not revisit L-tyrosine

Not sure why it helped though when I first took it 3 weeks ago?

Good health

Alps Holiday

[BB001 in reply to Hidden]

As the previous reply said, you can't improve something that isn't there. Tyrosine is taken to help the thyroid produce thyroid hormones. If you aren't producing the hormones it can't improve them. If it were me, I would stop tyrosine and just take the NDT so that you know that the effects you are experiencing are from NDT.

[Hidden]

Hi All

Muscles still as achy as tuesday morning.

And I now believe that the l-tyrosine has caused this

So, Can anyone say for how many days I would have to omit NDT for the extra aches to go away please?

Thanks

Alps

[BB001 in reply to Hidden]

Your post indicates that you are self medicating without doing the research to understand how to do so. I urge you to look at the link to Dr John C Lowes website you were given. It gives you 3 free chapters if his book, in pdf format, that will help you understand how to measure your body's response to thyroid hormone and how to decide whether you are on the right dose. Muscle aches is a symptom of being under-medicated. Look at the chapter titled 'numbers count'. I followed his advice in the chapter titled 'metabolic rehabilitation' - it works providing you don't cheat.

[Hidden in reply to BB001]

Hi bb001

A number of people have said that 1 NDT is too small a dose

So, for 3 days now, Sat/Sun/Mon, I have taken 1 1/2 NDT

However, on Sunday morning, when I woke, my muscles were very stiff

And my usual Sunday 60m ride was terrible

And today my muscles are the achiest they have ever been!

The vastus medialis (the cycling muscle!) mainly, followed by the triceps

So, I would be very grateful for any tips on what happened and where to go from here

Thanks all

Alps Holiday

[BB001]

If you have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, stopping thyroid hormone supplementation is not a good idea as your body needs thyroid hormones to be able to live. Do read the chapters indicated.

[Hidden in reply to BB001]

Thanks bb001

Have read Dr Lowe's notes and have learned a bit more about hypo

Thanks

Alps

[BB001]

There's an overstimulation form in one of the chapters

It gives a list of symptoms with a sliding scale 0 to 10 and you mark where you feel you are on this scale for each. You can then use this weekly to see whether you are on the right dose or should increase/decrease your dose.

One of the chapters talks about measuring your basal pulse and basal temperature (aka vitals) to establish how your body is responding.

The levels of cortisol, B12, folate, ferritin, iron, and vitamin D in your blood are also important in determining how well your body converts T4 to T3, and how well your tissues absorb it.

Paul Robinsons book 'The Thyroid Patients Manual' is good.