I am taking Metavive - current dosage 165mg but still have a lot of Hypothyroid symptoms, the worst and most distressing being Hair Loss (had for nearly 3 years now), Weight Gain and Weight Loss Resistance (despite eating healthy and doing all the right things) and Fatigue. I should also add that I have Hashimotos Thyroiditis but that I am currently working with an FDN to get to the underlying issues and put it into remission. My question is because Metavive is a Pig Porcine Glandular can I compare the level of T4 and T3 per 15mg capsule to something like Armour or WP Thyroid which is classed as a medication. The company where I buy it say not but somehow I am trying to work out roughly how much T4 and T3 I am actually on now. If I can compare it roughly, then I believe I am on two and three quarter grains and so would be able to calculate T4 and T3 accordingly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am doing this all alone. I really need my hair to stop falling out now as it has got so thin but with Estrogen Dominance too I have a massive battle on my hands currently. As all my sex hormones are out of whack too. I just keep holding onto the hope that when I hit my optimal dose some of these symptoms will ease/disappear.
Metavive Dosing. : I am taking Metavive - current... - Thyroid UK
Metavive Dosing.
I can't comment on your Metavive, sorry. I'm trying to get some information myself regarding the comparitive dosage with my current NT & WP.
Regarding your hair, is your microntrient intake ok?
I have very fine hair, which seemed to be getting thinner after starting NDT & T3, in addition to my loss of lower eyelashes, & eyebrow hair. They started growing back once I increased my iron intake by a third, started sublingual then SI hydroxocobalamin. My hair has had two growth spurts in a year, & grew a little thicker a few months after I started taking a mineral complex. I've also dropped my thyroid hormone dose slightly.
I am taking a Complex Mineral Supplement and numerous other vitamins/supplements etc. Just waiting for results from a Hair Mineral Analysis Test which should highlight any deficiencies that myself and my FDN need to work on supplementing. So will be able to be more specific then. I have always had very thick hair though. Thankfully as otherwise I would be bald by now. Hair loss is soul destroying! Thanks for your thoughts...
I can help with that actually. Go to Dr. Izabella Wentz's website. She is based in the USA and is a Thyroid Pharmacist originally but has suffered terribly with Hashimotos and put it into remission now. She has loads of free info and if you download her Free E-Book called Optimising your Thyroid Medications, she has a chart where you can compare doses for these medications to help people when switching between the two. She also has a Facebook Group and has written two very good books. Hope that helps you get the info you need. Good luck!
Regarding hair loss. I have only just started taking biotin as a help for this. Too early to tell as yet although I have hope. A side effect of biotin is increased T4 production in the gut, so it is good to be aware of it to avoid over-medication.
Am on Biotin but you are right, you can overdo it and create hair loss if you take too much too! Note you must cease taking it at least 4 days prior to doing a Thyroid Blood Test as it can skew the results.
Medichecks have confirmed that Biotin should be left off for 7 days before testing. It applies to any blood test, not just thyroid 
Metavive I and II are porcine thyroid and Metavive III and IV are bovine, and I believe the respective ratios of T4:T3 differ between the two animals; so it partly depends how you are reaching your 165 mcg dose - are you taking only Metavive I? I chose to believe that the active ingredient in Metavive correlates with licensed NDTs even though of course legally, it can't be stated that it does. So presumably yes, you are taking the equivalent of 2.75 grain NDT. However, in effect, it doesn't really matter, because what you're taking is what you're taking, and the amount you need to take to be well, is the amount you need to take, and so what it is comparable with, is largely irrelevant. BTW, there isn't a consensus about the value or accuracy of hair testing. As an aside, my experience has been that despite being optimally medicated, and supplementing as necessary, my thinning hair has continued year on year, to become thinner; and what remains is wiry, brittle, has acquired odd kinks, and tangles just by looking at it, or so it seems.
MaisieGray Do you know which is the strongest of the two Metavive's, porcine or bovine, please?
BadHare Sorry no, I can't remember what the exact difference might be in the T4:T3 ratios. Whether you can deduce anything from the fact that Metavive II has 30 mg porcine gland and Metavive III has 32.5 mg bovine gland, I don't know - it might be a complete red herring. I have a vague recollection of SeasideSusie referring to the bovine:porcine difference a while ago, she might have more detail.
Thanks MaisieGray !
I will send you a PM with furter information.
Thank you very much!
Would you be so kind as to pm me the details . I'm on metavive and feel great but my tsh days otherwise .. although because I don't have time one Monday after skipping a dose to do my blood test . I did on Tuesday. So had missed two doses .. I didn't think that would make much difference . I'm normally around zero but it's 9... Many thanks in advance
Sandria
This thread is 2 years old and since then Metavive have changed their product. They have now added nucleotides and although they say there is the same amount of "meat" (as in thyroid gland) some people have found that Metavive doesn't work so well for them now that the nucleotides have been added.
I'm not sure your TSH would change that quickly if you skipped 2 doses.
If you feel great, continue as you are and see how things go. Make sure that you have nothing to eat or drink except water before your thyroid test as this can affect TSH, and if you take a B Complex or Biotin supplement then leave this off for 7 days before test as this can give false results.
I am taking Metavive I & II - the only difference being one is 15mg and the other 30mg so as I am incrementing I take from each. Once I reach 30mg obviously I prefer to take one capsule instead of two. Thanks for your advice. I agree, I am basing my approximation of how much T4 and T3 is in 15mg (quarter of a grain) compared to branded NDT Meds like Armour etc. on the similiar calculations they state. As you say, the company that makes Metavive cannot state this as it is not classed as a medication. I think it is slightly weaker in dosage because I recall a FM Doctor telling me so. However, as you say, once you hit the dose that is right for you it doesn't matter. I prefer to be on this when I can self-medicate rather than pay loads of money to go through a Doctor who doesn't know my body as well as me and who will charge me for every question I ask. Regarding the Hair Mineral Analysis Test, this I am doing mainly for mineral status and heavy metals and toxins. It is a really good one and it also gives info regarding your metabolic status, adrenals etc. Obviously I am not relying on this alone though I have done other FM Tests. Sorry to hear about your hair. Maybe there is some other underlying cause you haven't yet resolved! Mine has eased at times but been consistently worse for the last month which given the length of time I have been losing it is very worrying. It needs to stop. As I am going to have to live with it as it is then for a while before it all grows back. 
Good luck with your progress; I certainly hope your testing identifies some useful data for you.
Hi Clara,
I also take Metavive II. I used to take 100mcg of Levo and was hypothyroid and very unwell due to poor conversion of T4 to T3 and poor vitamin and mineral uptake (esp iron) as I too have Hashimotos. I am now in very good health. I can’t sadly tell you how much T4 and T3 is in Metavive II but I can tell you that my functional doctor gave me this advice when starting Metavive. To start on one tablet (1/2 grain) and after every two weeks to increase by 1 more tablet (1/2) grain. Then when I was on 2 Metavive tablets to reduce my Levo by 25mcg. I was to keep going and going until I felt well and only at that point was I to go for a blood test to check what was happening in my bloods. It did feel a bit unscientific but frankly, I was so unwell I’m just Levo and desperate to get better so was willing to go through with it. In additio, I was supplementing with iron, vit B, vit C, selenium, magnesium and a few others which I can’t recall off the top of my head. The FD told me that I would know if I had gone too far as I would feel as though I had drank too much coffee. I eventually ended up on 7 NDTs a day (210g) and felt good but with a bit of hand shaking. I had blood tests and was over replaced on T3 but T4 was fine. I went down to 180g, felt a bit less shaky and generally well. At this point an endocrinologist stepped in and was happy for me to stay on this level if it meant I felt better. He essentially said that the body has been depleted for so long that it would be fine to stay on this high level for a while. A few months later I came down to 150g (5 Metavive) and now feel good with no shaking at all. My blood results show that I am still at the v top end of the range for T3 but that’s fine.
I’m not sure how long you’ve been taking Metavive. For me it took 11 months to get to this good point, although after about 4-5 months, I was much improved and the rest of the time has been tweaking the levels. I still take other supplements and still battle to get my iron in a good place but it is better. I am gluten free. I hope that helps. I’m not sure how long you’ve been on Metavive, it can take a while to get the levels right. Are you having blood tests to see what’s going on? I know it’s very hard when you’re unwell. I hope my experience might help in some way. Good luck.
Thank you. Always good to hear another person's experience. However, Thyroid dosing is so unique, isn't it! It really is the Goldilox Hormone. Glad you are feeling better. I am hoping to reach my optimal dosage very soon. As I really want some of these ghastly symptoms to stop now. Happy Easter!
Are you on the "new" Metavive, I mean the reformulated one? I have been considering adding it to levo but was put off by bad reviews. It would seem they added something to it recently and some users feel it is not working as well anymore.
Clara4741, I agree with MaisieGray that it doesn't matter too much how much T4 and T3 you're talking, what matters is how close you are to your ideal dose.
If you're not sure whether you're under, over, or optimally medicated and need to look into the next thing, I would recommend a thyroid panel blood test. It can't hurt and will give you a pin in the map to navigate by, even if you choose to dose mainly on symptoms.
The tests you need to see are TSH, freeT4 and freeT3, maybe thyroid antibodies if you're not regularly testing them any other way. You may be able to get these through your current practitioner, or get mail order finger prick test from Bluehorizon or Medichecks. If you want advice on interpreting them make a new post when you get your results.
Yes I wanted to get an idea though in case I need to go onto T3 only as a last resort. I am doing all the things you suggest and have had full thyroid panel tests done in past. Currently regularly checking markers along with symptoms. Thank you for your input.
Clara4741, If you've got current thyroid blood tests share them in the thread. It will help people to give you advice.
I use Metavive I.
If I were you I’d get a ferritin test done (including full iron panel).
Also, in the mean time consider using Alpecin caffeine shampoo. It really worked for me while working on getting my iron levels better. Before using that shampoo I would lose clumps of hair! I really wasn’t expecting much success but it really did work well.
You just apply it like normal but wait 2 mins while it works its magic, then rinse.
Hi there!
I am on Metavive.
Were you on thyroxine originallly? 165mg is a lot! Have you had your levels checked? Who told you to go on that amount?
I am taking 75mg (2 x MV II & 1 x MV)
I was taking too much as was scared about changing over and actually became hyperthyroid and my hair started falling out. Taking MV, you can’t really compare T4 & T3 to it. Best thing to do is to listen to your body and take your basal body temperature when you wake up in the morning.
Your T4 on MV will be much lower than on thyroxine. Please be careful about listening to people that don’t know about Metavive that give you advise.
I have been working with <redacted name> to sort out my Hashimotos who has trained with Isabella Wentz.
Definitely sounds like you are on too much though.
X
Hi Kate, who is <redacted name>? Is she UK based and is she a nutritional therapist, doctor etc? Thanks.
Please do not identify doctors, etc. by name on the forum. Send a Private Message to the person asking.
27. Do not post information about specific endocrinologists or doctors on the main board without their permission as this may result in unwanted attention from certain areas of the medical profession. If you wish to discuss a particular endocrinologist or doctor, you may mention his/her name and location, providing that you ask for comments by private message only.
Please do not identify doctors, etc. by name on the forum. Send a Private Message to the person asking.
27. Do not post information about specific endocrinologists or doctors on the main board without their permission as this may result in unwanted attention from certain areas of the medical profession. If you wish to discuss a particular endocrinologist or doctor, you may mention his/her name and location, providing that you ask for comments by private message only.
I am doing all the right things to monitor myself and believe that my hypo symptoms have got worse because I was on too low a dose for too long. The hair loss isn't just down to this though, I have very high levels of estrogen currently which I am working with a FDN on along with everything else. Plus I suspect I have heavy metals and toxins that are exacerbating this problem. I also have studied Izabella Wentz's work over the years amongst many other FM Experts and she is great. Thanks for your advice regarding Metavive.
There is also Metavive Pro which is 60 mg porcine but it does not seem to be available online. I see a private doctor [in the UK] and he prescribes it for me. < edited> cost me £32.45 for 90 capsules, so works out much cheaper if you are taking higher doses. <edited> My doctor told me that the bovine Metavive was not as strong as the porcine.
That sounds good! 🤗
Hi there who is your private doctor please?
Hi Guineapiggy, that is really useful to know as I am currently titrating my NDT to find my optimal dose and have just incremented to 180mcg (approx. 3 grains). I only have access to Metavive I and II which are the 15mg and 30mg capsules. So am on 6 per day! I wonder if you would be able to recommend me the Doctor you are using so I might enquire about their services? I am also based in the UK (Chelmsford, Essex). If you prefer, you could email me direct. Many thanks for your help.
Hi... you say you are oestrogen dominant... that can cause thyroid resistance. Having high cortisol levels and/or any vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies can cause it too... especially with iron and vitamin D. Are you doing anything to help with the OD and have you done any adrenal testing etc? I have all sorts of problems at the moment, after having been relatively stable for quite a while - my poor health returning has clearly been triggered by the menopause starting, and the fact that it is causing lots of stress and anaemia (very heavy, painful periods and proven high cortisol levels, and now, a large fibroid). I am finding it extremely difficult to balance everything, to put things back on track again, but trying to tackle all the problems is helping. I take iron in liquid form in fruit juice, at least 4 hours away from eating eggs and/or taking thyroxine (I'm on Metavive too with additional T3), and I eat a high iron content diet. I take D3 in olive oil capsules (the best way to take D3), and I address the oestrogen dominance with Wellsprings Serenity (a bio-identical progesterone cream). I'm progressing slowly, but these things do help. Do the research as to the optimum types of vitamins and minerals etc and the best times to take them and what to avoid taking with them etc... eg... everyone thinks spinach is good but it is actually bad... it contains the iron but it actually also contains other substances that stop you from absorbing the iron... and eggs also prevent iron uptake and adherence too.... and iron needs vitamin C to be absorbed properly... and D3 is best taken with fatty or oily foods or already held captive in olive oil... look on Amazon - there are a number of excellent products with minimum additives. But, with D3, it is not well absorbed even then, if you are not getting enough vitamin E and vitamin K... they are complimentary nutrients. Avoid grapefruit juice too when taking your supplements and any meds. For high cortisol levels, that requires quality time and things that calm you down, eg mindfulness.... and have you considered your iodine intake... ? Hope this all helps? x
Thank you so much for your detailed response. I am indeed working on everything you mention and have been for some time now. I have increased my Vitamin D levels over the years and just recently optimised my Iron Levels which were also not helping me to absorb the Metavive NDT. I am thinking that I may need some additional T3 to go with the NDT as you are doing but don't want to take that decision just yet as I am not optimised on the NDT yet. It is just a bit of a tough journey trying to get my body to absorb it. But am working on getting the excess Estrogen out of my body (levels are super high according to my last Dutch Complete Test with CAR) and also doing Gut Protocols to get rid of a H.Pylori Infection and 3 Parasites. It is no fun and my world is currently very small with everything I am doing which doesn't allow you to really have much a life. But then until I am better things won't change so all my energies have to go into my healing. I wish you well on your quest to regain your health. Out of interest, where are you getting your Metavive and T3 from? Do you organise your own sourcing and dosing or are you under a Practitioner. I am based in the UK and am always keen to hear of good Practitioners who support the Functional Medicine approach to health and wellness. Perhaps you could PM me to comply with the rules on the forum. Many thanks. Take care. x
It's the phytates in some plants that inhibit mineral absorption, though there are other benefits to eating plants like spinach than iron, unless it's something a person finds goitrogenic. I excluded my favourite goitrogen salad (watercress, spinach & rocket) for months, & noticed no negative effects when I reintroduced it just feeling better. I often eat this with hummous, sometimes brie, so the calcium in these would block much of the iron anyway, so I still supplement with iron taken with fruit. Salad season started last week, & I'm feeling ready to start dropping my thyroid hormone intake in a few weeks which I'd nt be able to do if my diet was wrong for me, other folks need to check what's right for themselves. I eat sourdough rather than normal bread products as the wild yeasts break down the phytates in the grains, so it helps rather than hinders nutrient absorption.
Phosphoprotein in egg whites binds iron. The yolks are otherwise fine as well as being more nutritious. The albumen in whites doesn't contain the full range of protein amino acids, & I'm not sure if there are any specific benefit from eating whites aside from meringues being extremely tasty now & again.
There are two types of vitamin K: K1 & K2. K1 is most commonly known for helping blood clot, & K2 a cofactor for bone formation, though they both have other important physiological roles. Chris Kresser's website has some good information on these & most other dietary & health issues.
Grapefruit only impairs a small number of medications by blocking an enzyme that helps clear the drugs from our bloodstream. It's generally healthy unless contraindicated, & has lots of benefits such as vitamins C, A, folate & fibre. The zest is also useful for making toxin free vinegar anti-bac/cleaning spray.
From what I've picked up on here & elsewhere, iodine isn't recommended unless a person knows they're deficient, & need to have good selenium levels for it to help.
My fibroid grew noticeable when I took bioidentical HRT, then returned to it's normal size when I returned to the good synthetic brand I'd been on for a few years. Initially, I wouldn't have known it was there without a scan as I've never experienced heavy bleeding, possibly due to very high prolactin, though quite the opposite with severe pain. The HRT stopped all my womens' issues very nicely which was a relief.
I'm trying Metavive next, as a change from Nature Throid/WP. Good to know someone else recommends it.
Thanks for the info. Good luck with your quest using Metavive. It think it is a very clean natural product. Originally recommended to me by a Naturopath I was working with so you can't do any harm going on it. Just titrate carefully and monitor your temperature, pulse and symptoms daily along with bloods every 4-6 weeks.
I am just off out. Please send me a PM outlining what it is you want to know about Metavive that isn't on their website and I'll see if I can help
the-natural-choice.co.uk/Gl...
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