I had overactive thyroid treated with Radio Iodine, I am now on Thyroxine 125mg.while I am doing OK, have had issues with heart racing and on beta blocker also keeping check on my liver as count is raised, constantly sleeping and dry skin and itching. I have issues with what I would say is moods, although more anger and while normally not an argument I've person and easy going the flare up leaves me in a pretty depressive mood after, and ppl don't understand,. Have been to Doc on numerous occasions, but do thyroid test and always comes back normal. I know it's my Thyroid as I can feel when it's coming on, and try to stay away from my wife especially although she can tell, but something so stupid just sets me off. Tried to explain to young GP, but she doesn't think it's my thyroid, explained the other symptoms. So have to get bloods done which I know will be ok, asked when I feel it coming if I could call and get bloods took when I know my levels are raised, but she reckons would not be any sense as they have all been fine over the years. Getting nowhere as the GPS cannot be up to date with everything, but seemed to think its my mental state. Looking recommendations from ppl who maybe have the mood/anger probs (not all the time) who could maybe recommend anything that might help or reduce my thyroid levels rising. Concerned male
Anger and thyroid. : I had overactive thyroid... - Thyroid UK
Anger and thyroid.
I think this is pretty common for thyroid patients, but often the anger is not as strong in some people.
I think the cause is a mismatch in the thyroid / cortisol relationship. So you can be fine for a while and then out of the blue you can find anger is in the air.
So the simple solution is to stop the T4 for a day and then resume. What dose do you take?
Having a day off from any thyroid med is fine, even a few days off.
It maybe that your system is running close to having a full tank and you just need to let it drop back a little.
The thyroid / cortisol relationship is complicated, but you can be running around with higher cortisol and not know about it, but this will impact on how T4 is used. Higher cortisol can stop the T4 from being used properly and so you can accumulate to much and this maybe the anger cause. It is hard to say for sure because we would need to get in the lad and do blood tests as and when we feel angry, but that is just never going to happen.
Lower cortisol seems to be linked to a lower mood, so rather than anger you can become depressed. Not enough cortisol around to take the T3 into the cells.
It's a complex system to understand but thats my take on it.
Messing around with the T4 is the way to help.
Before you consider changing your dose of Levothyroxine would recommend FULL private testing of thyroid and vitamins
Low vitamins can badly affect conversion of thyroid hormones
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested. Also extremely important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if Thyroid antibodies are raised or if FT4 is too high or too low
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. Last Levothyroxine dose should be 24 hours prior to test, (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw). This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)
Is this how you do your tests?
Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or all vitamins
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random
Come back with new post once you get results and ranges
Thanks Slowdragon, yeah I do that at my blood test, will have to either do the prick test or private doc as struggled with this and it's not getting any better. Thankyou for the links
Very important to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin. Getting these balanced can really help
If your GP does these tests always get the actual results and ranges
Do you have most recent results to add here?
I don't Slowdragon, but will ask if I can get results next time. If they don't do the full test I will see about getting a private one.
You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.
UK GP practices are supposed to offer online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.
In reality many GP surgeries do not have blood test results online yet
Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.
No we don't have online, booked for blood test on Tues, my last one was 10 months ago. Doc I seen today said about counselling doesn't think it's my thyroid, told her I knew it was my thyroid, but she just did not seem to know much about it, and doubts my anger rage whatever you want to call it was down to it.
Medics are generally clueless about thyroid
Many people after RAI need the addition of small dose of T3 (Liothyronine)
But FIRST vitamins need to be tested and improve levels with supplements, if not optimal
New NHS England Liothyronine guidelines November 2018 clearly state on pages 8 & 12 that TSH should be between 0.4-1.5 when treated with just Levothyroxine
Note that it says thyroid test should be in morning BEFORE taking Levothyroxine
Also to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin
sps.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploa...
Thanks Slowdragon, I am obv to trusting in the GP to have done everything right once I started Thyroxine, but obv not. I started taking B12 before Christmas not for thyroid but was told by my sister in law it can help with knee pain because of cartlidge wear, it has helped it so obv need it for more than my knee lol
Most GP's are clueless about thyroid levels. Hence almost 100,000 members on here
Getting vitamins optimal is first step and testing TSH, FT3 and FT4
Most likely need to test privately to get FT3 done, even if GP will test vitamins
Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or all vitamins
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random
Then retesting again after vitamins add optimal
If FT3 remains low then you may need addition of small dose of T3
But will need to see an NHS endocrinologist to initially diagnose clinical need
Or see private endocrinologist
Professor Toft recent article saying, T3 may be necessary for many
rcpe.ac.uk/sites/default/fi...
Dossier presented to Government November 2018
drive.google.com/file/d/1c2...
Yes Slowdragon have looked at tests, and prob that's what I will have to do, and really surprised me at the Docs today and she had ruled my problem as depression and offered antidepressants and counselling, be better spending the money on proper tests, even though I said about thyroid and how I know when I can feel it coming on, a lot of time over stupid stuff. Great info on here and at my age should know better, and should have looked and researched. Which I will be doing in future.
Most of us have had antidepressants repeatedly offered instead of constructive practical blood testing
This article would be funny if it wasn't so true and so often repeated in hundreds of GP surgeries
drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/...
yeah i cannot believe i have been so stupid for years. be better for their budget and ppls health if they did it right.
I did 24 years of hell, before taking action myself and getting sorted, with fantastic help on this forum
First step in my recovery was full private testing of thyroid and vitamins as recommended on here
More on my profile
thats fantastic, dont feel so bad as others believing doctors. hopefully i get myself sorted with the help of people who have been in my position. thinking i should get a private test now and cancel my docs appointment. but will wait and see what they have to say on Tuesday
Which test do you recommend, and do you need to takes thee sample yourself. Thanks
Personally I pay the extra for private blood draw. (After years of doing DIY finger prick test)
But it depends if you have a near by private clinic, (or helpful GP surgery nurse). Many people still do DIY finger prick test
Medichecks or Blue Horizon are both popular
Both companies list private clinic options on their website. (They both list same clinic local to myself)
Medichecks test includes Active B12 test, Blue Horizon tests serum B12
Blue Horizon test includes Total T4. Medichecks no longer includes this test.
They charge similar price. Getting private blood draw is, I think, currently slightly higher cost on Blue Horizon
Both frequently have money off offers
Medichecks usually on Thursdays
Thyroid plus ultra vitamin £99 - offer price £79
10% off if use this code
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Blue Horizon, often towards end of month
Thyroid plus eleven
Thriva is becoming popular. But I haven't had personal experience
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. Last Levothyroxine dose should be 24 hours prior to test, (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw). This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results.
Thanks Slowdragon, need the full one to get count on everything. Will ask at Docs, but being in N. I. might be a problem doing private. But will have a look. Thanks again
Hello Themax
I'm taking it that you were diagnosed with Graves Disease and treated with RAI to disable your thyroid, thereby alleviating your symptoms of hyperthyroidism but leaving you with the opposite health issue of hypothyroidism.
" Graves Rage " is a well used terminology used by patients when describing and talking about how Graves Disease can affect their lives.
Graves is an auto immune disease and as such it is for life. It's in your blood, your DNA.
There is probably some genetic predisposition, maybe a generation away, and it can be triggered by a sudden shock to the system, like an unexpected death or car accident.
Your thyroid was not the cause of your illness, but the victim of an attack by your immune system.
You might like to take a look at this book :-
Graves Disease A Practical Guide by Elaine Moore - this lady has the disease and drank the RAI. She wrote the book as she found no credible help herself back in the late 1990's. She has now set up a Graves Foundation and there is a very comprehensive website available on all things Graves with open forums, and support for everybody. It is USA based, so medical protocol might be slightly different but nevertheless it is the best first step to getting to grips with what Graves is all about.
I have read that Graves affects approximately a quarter of 1% of the population, and the book and website helped me, help myself, as I have found very little understanding or knowledge within the Nhs.
It's a massive learning curve, but think it's in your best interest to educate yourself and take back some control for yourself.
Thanks Pennieannie, yes my mother had thyroid disease hyper, sadly has passed away,and when I was diagnosed they said it was hereditary. No one every Mentioned Graves Disease, just when the rage come, thankfully its not every month, i cannot do or say things bad enough, I am pretty quiet and laid back person as if I wasn't I dread to think what a normal aggressive person would be like in one. Will lookout for that book.
Yes, I know, I can ditto some of your comments.
It makes sense when you think it through doesn't it ?
We stay calm, we don't react, we bottle it up, possibly denying some part of our psyche.
Graves is stress and anxiety driven, and we are the ones who would calm things down and keep the peace, rather than " letting go " and saying things we might regret, and always considering others, and keepers of the peace ??
So it seems we keep it all in, and eventually we boil over, like a faulty pressure cooker.
It is essential that you are not monitored on a TSH blood test, and that T3 and T4 are regularly measured with a view to them being balanced and in the upper quadrants of their relevant ranges.
We have a TSI/TRab antibody that " sits on and controls " our TSH giving a low false read which doctors tend to think means we are overmedicated and cut back our medication. A bit like a faulty petrol gauge on the car dashboard - you know you need petrol but the gauge is stuck on " full " .
Think you where describing me haha, yeah that would be me, but then saying in the rage things you don't mean and regret after. Looking at the private test, just wonder how doctor would feel if I needed new or extra Medicines, as I only take the Thyroxine. And have never had it reduced. Will let them do the test then speak to the nurse, as I know her and say I am getting a private test done, and ask if their test is the TSH
I don't know of your time scale re Graves diagnosis , anti thyroid medication and then the RAI.
When hyper your body clock will have been running too fast - now hypo your body clock may now be running too slow.
It would be prudent to ask your doctor for a full thyroid panel, including T3 and T4 along with ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D as if these essential health building blocks are not optimum, your ability to utilise the Levothyroxine might be compromised.
Obviously, if you strike out, there are private companies available as detailed on this website.
Once with the results post back, including the ranges, and people better able than me will advise of any steps you might need to take.
Living without a fully functioning thyroid comes with its own set of problems and we need results to be optimum, rather than just simply " in range & therefore ok ".
The thyroid is a major gland responsible for full body synchronisation, finely tuning your mental, physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual well being.
We now need the fine tuning, and need to work out what we've lost and attempt to compensate where we can.
Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield - Your Thyroid and How to Keep It Healthy is an excellent common sense read. This doctor has hypothyroidism and he details everything that might impact your health if you have a thyroid condition.
We may not now have this amazing gland, but do need to know what it did and what we need to do, to help ourselves back to better health.
Hey there, me again,
Just to add a fully functioning thyroid would be supporting you with approximately 100 T4 + 10 T3 daily.
Some people can convert the inactive T4 to T3, which is what the body runs on.
Some people simply stop converting T4 to T3 at some point in time, and some people simply need both hormones monitored and dosed independently to bring them into balance, that being generally in the upper quadrants of their relevant ranges, and more importantly to an acceptable level of wellness for the patient.
There is much to read up on the T3 debacle -
Thanks Pennieannie. Can I ask do you take tablets for T4 separate or does the Thyroxine do both
Levothyroxine is T4 and the standard treatment for hypothyroidism.
The body then converts the T4 to T3 and it is the T3 that the body runs on.
Some people have problems converting the T4 to T3 and other people may be undermedicated and not on enough T4 to alleviate their symptoms.
You can tell the doctor your symptoms, but if they are only looking at a TSH blood test, and it comes in somewhere " in range " they consider you good to go.
Your symptoms are dismissed as not thyroid related, and you may well come out with a prescription for anti depressants as some sort of consolation prize !
The TSH test was designed as a diagnostic tool to test for hypothyroidism.
It was never intended to be used once on thyroid hormone replacement.
Once on medication both T3 and T4 need to be measured and one should be aiming for a conversion ratio between 1/3 to 1/4 - T3 to T4.
I am not on Levothyroxine any longer.
I am self medicating with Natural Desiccated Thyroid which contains all the known hormones and chemicals that a thyroid produces viz: T1, T2, T3, T4 and calcitonin.
It is dried pigs thyroid and one doses to alleviate symptoms.
Blood tests are not the end goal, but one's level of wellness and having ability to get on with one's life is deemed more important than scoring a number on a blood test report.
This was the treatment option available for over 100 years, prior to the 1960s. Before the arrival of Big Pharma, the drug industry, the blood tests, the ranges and the need for laboratories.
Thanks for that info, good to know and what numbers I am looking for,
Once with the results of your thyroid, vitamins and mineral post back on here the full results including the ranges and people better able than me will talk you through any adjustments they think necessary.
thanks Pennieannie, learnt more on her today than what any doc has told me, and i will post them
I will keep that list, have to go on Tues. And see if I can get the full test, although not sure they would do it if not will go with one on this site. I take B12. But not the others.
Giving up gluten is frequently advised on this forum for people with thyroid disease.
I was thoroughly tested for coeliac disease (endoscopy, biopsies, and blood tests) and the tests came back negative, so I never saw any urgency in trying to give up gluten. It took me five years to give it a try.
When I did finally give up gluten as an experiment (and OMG I was really grumpy about doing it!) in less than a week my seriously bad temper and anger issues disappeared. I used to be so angry I was almost homicidal, and it terrified me that I might kill someone one day. But since going gluten free my temper has been absolutely normal pretty much all the time. The totally-out-of-proportion rages that used to terrify me, that I could barely control, haven't happened since.
If I do eat gluten now I will get a bit depressed and irritable, but I don't have the same level of response that I had when I ate gluten all the time. But it does serve as a reminder that gluten just isn't for me!
Just realised my grandson is Coeliac, and wonder how it would work with me as I have to eat a high in fiber diet.
There are gluten-free foods that contain fibre e.g. lots of vegetables contain fibre but no gluten.
If fibre is very important to you then you could try soluble fibre supplements e.g. psyllium husk or inulin powder.
I have Hashimoto's, but similar story with gluten.
Tested twice for coeliac, twenty years apart. Both negative.
Gave up gluten (like others, out of desperation to try anything) Astonishing improvement. Immediate private Endoscopy. Gastroenterologist couldn't believe, looking inside at my gut that I am not coeliac. NHS coeliac DNA test says "probably not"
With Graves or Hashimoto's it's always worth trying strictly gluten free diet for 3-6 months.
Ideally get coeliac blood test FIRST, just to rule out. Buy online for under £20
If, after 3-6 months, no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse
chriskresser.com/the-gluten...
amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
scdlifestyle.com/2014/08/th...
Link about gluten "rage"
Thanks Humanbean, will be worth thinking about. I am not angry etc often, my wife might disagree lol, but it's when you don't expect it, but feel it coming on before it happens, tried getting away from situations etc but it's like what another post says, it's like a pressure cooker needing to explode. But will Def keep the gluten in mind after I get the tests done.
Good luck with your blood tests. If your doctor can’t or won’t do all the things recommended above then go for either Medichecks or Blue Horizon home fingerprick tests and get the information you need. That’s what I do, much easier to do my own than to wait for weeks to get to see my own doctor then grovel and beg my GP for the tests I want done. T3 - no chance, vitamin D - forget it - B12 - had it done once and it had barely crawled over the lower limit but it was ‘fine’ because I was ‘within range’. All I can say is Grrrr!
I’m in remission from Graves but I know what you mean with anger. I have to say was pretty volatile back before and in the early stages of my treatment. I did lose friends - couldn’t have been true friends so I don’t care - fortunately my husband was made of stronger stuff and I’m still married. I’d say volatile is probably a bit of an understatement. It is very annoying when your doctors don’t believe what you are trying to tell them.
At the moment I’m finding that there is no such thing as ‘fine tuning’ on the NHS - I’d like my TSH to be lower but I don’t think that will happen because if you come within their stupid ranges then you are ‘fine’. You might feel awful because you are not at your optimal place within the range but as far as your doctor goes you are ‘fine’.
So good luck with it all, I can feel your pain. I definitely wouldn’t change anything until you’ve had all the blood tests you need doing done, then go from there.
Thanks fruitandnutcase, an apt name for me lol. Yeah told my wife if I had been her I would have left, but she knew it was not me or how 8 would react unless something wrong. Believing docs that I am OK and thinking it was just my system going into overdrive, when it's not. Hopefully I can get them to do tests but realistically will be a basic one.
My sympathy for you Themax . Would you have your most recent lab values for FT4 FT3 TSH ? In addition lab values for Vitamin "D" , B12/folate , Iron /ferritin , DHEA-S ?
You might want to have an Adrenal/Cortisol 24 hour test via saliva .
Adding a small dose of T3/NDT can benefit and calm your palpitations too . If your iron levels are low it can too trigger palpitations .
Meantime you might want to add some magnesium to help you with the palpitations and some fish oils .
You might also want to check out if changing brands of T4 to another brand can be helpful too . Fillers/dyes can cause problems if one develops allergic reactions to them .
Going Gluten dairy coffee sugar soy free is so Very Helpful too . It made a tremendous benefit for me and many other thyroid patients .
Wishing you Fast and Best Resolutions .
Thanks jgelliss, no I have appointment for Tues for tests, although doubt they will do a full test, will ask but prob with NHS it will be basic, so have to prob get a kit privately on here to check levels.
Thankyou but think I will need a private one.
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