Since joining this forum and finding out what I can about hypothyroid (I'm still learning) I have over the last, roughly 2 years been taking Nature Throid. I don't see my GP about my medication I buy it privately. However, I did ask my new GP (I have needed to change GP's since changing my medication due to hostility from them), if I could have a blood test and include the following panel and here are the results;
Free T3 = result 3.7pmol range (3.5-6.5)
TSH level = result <0.03 mU/L range (0.35-5.5)
Serum T4 level = result 13.1pmol range (10.0-19.8)
Vitamin D 25-hydoxy = result 58.3 nmol ranges are changing but currently 25-OH they are changing this to 30.
Ferritin serum C reactive protein = 6 mg range (0.0-0.6)
Ferritin level = 98.1 range (10.0-291.0)
Folate = 16.01 range >5.38
Vitamin B12 = 401 ng/L range (211.0-911.0)
I fasted before taking the blood tests and I didn't take NDT for 2 days prior to the test, not sure if that is long enough. My GP said all my results were normal apart from my TSH range which was too low. I didn't get a call back from him.
I think my Vit D / B12 and Ferritin levels are low, I'm not sure about my T3 levels. Folate seems high but I'm no expert, I haven't a clue, there doesn't seem to be much of a range apart from greater than 5.38.
I wanted to post here to see what you all thought? I feel a little afraid now as I am out of the loop with GP's on my medication (although they have not been much help to me over the years) but as I'm self medicating I'm concerned that I am doing the right thing. Any response would be great.
Best regards
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Harv69
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When we take any other thyroid hormones forby levothyroxine the blood tests wont match as they were introduced along with T4 only. That causes confusion amongst GPs and Endocrinologists.
Therefore it is all about how the person feels on their dose of T4/T3, or NDT, or T3 only. You appear to be doing fine and the results will please your GP as they are within the ranges. However, your B12 could be nearer the top of the range and it is recommended we have it towards the top of the range to try to prevent dementia/alz.
Supplement with methylcobalamin sublingual B12. Amazon does a variety and if you use the following link Thyroiduk will get a small commission that goes towards defraying their office expenses.
Others will respond re your other results. I will give you a link from one of our deceased doctors who only took a blood test for the initial diagnosis and thereafter it was all about how the patient's symptoms improved by small increments until relieved.
Thank you so much Shaws, this is so helpful and is a relief to hear, I am feeling much better on NDT but I have questioned myself when the GP's are tutt tutting all the time.
Considering this was the only product prescribed from 1892 up until the 60's when levo and blood tests were introduced.
Lives were saved from 1892 and prevented awful deaths due to myxedema coma.
We used to be diagnosed upon our clinical symptoms alone - no blood tests then - if we improved we were hypo. If/when symptoms return we can increase dose by 1/4 tablet (if it is 1gr) every two weeks until they are relieved.
I just finished reading the document you sent it's really interesting reading. It doesn't state why Toft changed his mind. I don't get the system and why they don't offer the correct training and diagnosis. It's a pretty sad state of affairs. I appreciate you sending it to me. Have a great weekend.
Hi thywhat,
The problem is that you have stopped NDT for 2 days before bloods, so there results are not accurate You should be fasting for 8-12 hours max when it comes to NDT.
Your TSH is very suppressed. FT3 is inaccurate, I'm afraid FT4 most likely stable, but it depends how you feel?
Ferritin could be higher, vit D - not sure about ranges, mine is normally range up to 125...so we need to re-confirm that, vit B12 can be a bit higher too. Folate - seems good - but maybe someone else can comment on it.
So again the main question is - how do you feel?
Also, would be good to know what your bloods were at diagnosis of hypo? Do you have Hashi? And how many grains of Nature T are you taking?
I take 2 grains of NDT each day. I have been on a roller coaster ride like most people here of trying to find the right dosage. I do feel better than I have ever felt on this dose.
When you say FT3 is inaccurate could you explain this further?
I was diagnosed with hypothyroid in 1996-7,. I was taking Levo and was up at 175 per day up until my 40's when I had a dramatic change in my life and noticed that my thyroid symptoms where getting worse and worse. This is when I started looking on the internet (which is a god send) and found these sites and Thyroid UK. My old TSH range used to be around 5, which was always diagnosed as normal.
The dosage is similar to mine. If you feel good, I would leave it this way for now, but I think you should get your ft3 and all re-tested because of the 2 days gap.
Sorry, what I meant is the result of FT3 is not accurate after stopping NDT for 2 days, it will be indicating low so we don't really know what your FT3 is.
I wouldn't do anything with this dose until we know what the level is.
Again, you feel good, that's excellent - just make sure you don't go over on FT3, I went through an overdose for months and it was the worst thing I have experienced in my life. I was on 4 grains at the time. And I did feel pretty good for months of overdosing. Just be sure to monitor all bloods regularly and ideally, find a good endo that understand all meds.
sure - it started with fatigue, I was not able to think clearly, anxiety was creeping in - at that point, I didn't know what was happening to me, I put it down to stress (occasionally months before I got a period of bad skin, really oily face, pimples and palpitations), the day it manifested itself - I remember that day so well: sitting at work, suddenly hot flushes, sudden heart racing and getting pale, passing out. Anxiety through the roof, my skin was burning, hair was falling out, went from 65 kgs to 59kgs in a month, diarrhoea, blurred vision, depersonalisation and the list goes on. Everyone is different, so your symptoms will be too...but yeah, that was me for 4-5 months. And I stopped sleeping.
Oh that sounds horrible. You must have felt like you couldn't go on. When you miss sleep it can be like the end of the world. I'm glad you got it all sorted out.
Sometimes I feel a little rattily, I can't really describe what I mean but just a bit out of sorts sometimes, I often feel light headed too, I have low blood pressure.
I am also going through the menopause but I'm not taking anything for it. Hypothyroid/Menopause and cluster headaches.... It's enough to send you over the edge : 0
However, I will re-test and post the results to see if there is something in my thyroid results I'm missing.
One of our Advisers, now deceased, would never prescribe levo - only NDT or T3 for Thyroid Hormone Resistant patients. He only took one blood test for the diagnosis and thereafter it was all about relief of the patient's clinical symptoms.
When we took NDT there were no blood tests at all and it was all above being diagnosed upon our clinical symptoms and given small increases of NDT (NDT being the very first life-saver of people who had hypo - before that they just died an awful death).
Dr. Lowe: With most patients, I use thyroid function tests (TSH, free T3, and free T4) and thyroid antibodies only for a patient’s initial diagnosis. Afterward, I follow the practice, in principal, of Dr. Broda Barnes—that is, measuring tissue effects of particular dosages of thyroid hormone rather than remeasuring TSH, free T3, and free T4 levels.
My reason for this different protocol is simple: the TSH, free T3, and free T4 tell us only how the pituitary and thyroid glands are interacting. Of course, the test levels may also tell us something of the influence of thyroid hormone over the hypothalamus in its secretion of TRH, another hormone that influences the pituitary gland's secretion of TSH.
Tissue measures of thyroid hormone tell us what is most important, that is, how the patient's tissues other than the pituitary and hypothalamus are responding to a particular dosage of thyroid hormone. To accomplish this objective, with long distance patients, I mainly use the basal body temperature, basal pulse rate, speed of the Achilles reflex, and the voltage of the electrocardiogram tracing.
Thank you Shaws , this is very helpful and sad to read. It's almost like the thyroid doesn't exist and therefore people who have a problem with it are on the outskirts of life. If it wasn't for forums like this and the good people on it. Most of us would be heading to the sort of outcome you describe.
Those results show your FT3 is too low, most people when on NDT are best when this is in the upper part of the range, FT4 and TSH aren't good indicators and TSH is generally suppressed or very low on NDT anyway. Those results show that you could increase your dose.
However, as you didn't take your NDT for 2 days, you're not getting a proper indication of your levels. NDT should be left off for 8-12 hours before a test, any more and you get false lows with FT4 and FT3 (which you very likely have) and any less and you get false highs.
So actually those results aren't a lot of good and you really should repeat the test to get your correct levels before deciding if you need to increase your dose.
You can do a private fingerprick test with Medichecks or Blue Horizon if your GP wont repeat the tests.
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Vitamin D 25-hydoxy = result 58.3 nmol ranges are changing but currently 25-OH they are changing this to 30.
25-OH is not the range, that is the name of the test. The figure 30 is the cut off point for loading doses for deficiency. So if your level was below 30 the NICE Clinical Knowledge Summary advises loading doses.
The Vit D Council, the Vit D Society and Grassroots Health all recommend a level of 100-150nmol/L. For your level of 58.3nmol/L the Vit D Council recommends taking 2,000 IU daily to reach 100nmol/L, 3,700 IU daily to reach 125nmol/L and 5,800 IU daily to reach 150nmol/L. If that was my result I would take 5000iu daily for 3 months and retest, then when I reached the recommended level find a maintenance dose to keep it there, which may be 2000iu daily, maybe more or less, maybe less in summer than winter, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. You can do this with a private fingerprick blood spot test with City Assays vitamindtest.org.uk/
There are important cofactors needed when taking D3 as recommended by the Vit D Council -
D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.
D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds.
Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need Magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.
Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds
According to an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:
"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".
"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."
If you wish to raise your level then a sublingual methylcobalamin lozenge 1000mcg daily will help. When taking B12 we need a B Complex to balance all the B vitamins, choose one with methylfolate rather than folic acid.
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Folate is fine, if B12 is high then it's OK for folate to be high. Yours is currently not classed as high, but it is fine.
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Ferritin level = 98.1 range (10.0-291.0)
This isn't bad - for thyroid hormone to work it needs to be 70, but recommended is half way through range. You could eat liver regularly to help raise your level, plus other iron rich foods.
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C reactive protein = 6 mg range (0.0-0.6)
This is a non-specific inflammation marker so maybe you had an infection or some inflammation at the time of the test. It may be worth repeating at some point and if it remains high maybe your GP can investigate why.
One thing that comes to mind is whether or not you have raised antibodies - Hashimoto's - as this sometimes causes CRP to be high. Have you ever had thyroid antibodies tested? If not then if you do a Medichecks or Blue Horizon test then I'd include antibodies too
Thank you so much for your reply, I have read through your response and wondered if I could ask you further questions, apologies if they are a little dumb.
I usually take my NDT in the morning. So when I re-test on the day of the test I should not take NDT that morning? Is this correct. Or when should I take it. I believe the test is best on an empty stomach so the morning would seem a better time to take the test but this is usually when I take NDT and would therefore be a longer time period than 12 hours.
You mention taking VIT D with magnesium and take VIT D with a fatty meal and magnesium at night time, so I don't need to take them together, apologies if this is a really silly question.
My C reactive protein result is worrying me, I think each time I have taken it, it is high. Maybe this is something I need to look further into.
Thank you very much for the codes for bluehorizon and your time today and helping me out.
By the way I am vegan. I have also been diagnosed with cluster headaches which are also known as suicide headaches.
The 8-12 hour gap after taking NDT before blood draw is important. In your position I would alter my timing of meds the day before the blood test. JSome people take their NDT i split doses so you could consider that for that one day. I take a combination of Levo and T3, advice is to leave off Levo for 24 hours and T3 for 8-12 hours, so I change the times of my doses the day before.
You don't need to take D3 and magnesium together. Some people find taking D3 at night disturbs their sleep. I take mine usually at lunchtime with my Vit K2-MK7, and magnesium before I go to bed.
If your CRP is always high then it's worth discussing with your GP.
Two days is much too long! It should be between 8 to 12 hours. So, that test is nul and void because the Free levels tell you nothing, now.
Your vit D and B12 levels are too low, but your folate is fine. But, the ferritin level is skewed by the high CRP level. It will be lower than that, but you can't know how low because inflammation causes a higher reading. You'll have to test again when the inflammation goes down.
It's good to hear from you. I hope you are well. Do you know much about CRP levels? Im really not sure why its high, I wasn't ill when I took the test.
CRP is an inflammation marker. So, if it's high, you have inflammation. You don't have to be ill to have inflammation. Just having low thyroid can cause it.
I think your inflammation is related to your vegan diet. High carb diets are the absolute worst thing you can do for your thyroid. Read The Paleo Thyroid Solution by Elle Russ, available on Amazon.
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You should be fasting for 8-12 hours max when it comes to NDT.
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