Hypothyroidism and Ferritin: Why You’re Not Iron-Deficient, Why Iron Supplements Can Kill You, and What Test You Need to Run

[DanteNXS]

This was just emailed to me, so I thought I would share it with the group.

forefronthealth.com/

Share your thoughts.

DanteNXS

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

The paper is right to say that ferritin alone is not sufficient. Don't think anyone with any understanding really thinks that it is enough on its own. Trouble is, like so much, use of ferritin-only testing is a money saving exercise. (In the UK, we see Full Blood Count as probably the most common set of blood tests. Even that provides a bit more useful information than ferritin-only.)

Where he goes on to say:

Yet, the doctors giving out these mega doses of Vitamin B12 are not considering some important research.

I’m referring to the research showing that elevated B12 levels are highly associated with your risk of cancer.

I suggest posting that quote over on Pernicious Anaemia Society.

He also witters on about "B12 deficiency anemia". Again, over on PAS, it is often suggested that the anaemia that can occur in PA (and, I assume, B12 deficiency of any aetiology) is actually quite rare.

So there is a good point in some muddy waters.

[Justiina in reply to helvella]

Based on norwegian study it was huge loads of B12 possibly connected to cancer. Most likely if you already had a cancer loads of B12 can speed it up not cause it.

[Jazzw in reply to Justiina]

It's not just that. When people get metastases on their liver, the liver cannabilises itself. High B12 in someone that isn't supplementing is not a good sign - there's often liver disease involved. So the high B12 being correlated to high incidence of cancer might have something to do with that.

[Justiina in reply to Jazzw]

True, I remember reading about that too.

[Gambit62 in reply to helvella]

there is a correlation - and yes - others right the study was in Scandinavia - that showed a correlation between higher rates of cancer and larger tumours in people receiving injections for B12 absorption problem - however, any causal link is yet to be identified and personally, as B12 can cause cancer - I think it is more likely to be the existence of pre-cancer caused by the B12 deficiency before diagnosis and treatment that lead to the cancer and an unfortunate side effect of the B12 that it is also going to promote reproduction of cancerous cells as well as non-cancerous cells - though not in quite the same ratios.

[bluebug]

The article doesn't actually say what the "normal" range of ferritin is. It varies country by country and area by area. The UK deliberately in many areas uses a lower ferritin and haemoglobin boundary than what the World Health Organisation recommends. How can a ferritin level of 7ug/L be "normal" when the WHO states anything less than 12 means you are iron deficient?

And due to the misinformation about marathon runners further down in the article it can't be taken seriously. Someone did a calculation a while ago that for every large city marathon like the London marathon something like at least 3 people should die based on population demographics from natural causes. This is due to the fact that people who are more genetically likely to have problems with heart disease etc do these events to prolong their healthy life by a few years. When people die due to water, drugs or some other cause that can be controlled for then all endurance runners are informed not to do these things.

[humanbean]

I was under the impression that high B12 levels were possibly an indication of a serious health problem if they occurred without supplementing.

But if someone has been supplementing B12 and gets a high level of B12 that way then it isn't, by itself, an indication of anything other than the fact that the person has been supplementing.

I have never read anything suggesting that supplementing B12 can cause cancer.

If anyone is interested :

academic.oup.com/qjmed/arti...

Regarding supplementing iron, I always tell people that iron is dangerous in overdose and they should test regularly. And these days I point them at this test which includes other information besides ferritin :

medichecks.com/iron-tests/i...

I've come across one person on here (whose name I forget) who was prescribed iron by her doctor because ferritin was quite low. The person felt very ill on the iron and wanted to stop it. Her doctor re-tested and said her ferritin was still low so she should keep on taking it. Eventually the woman stopped the iron and refused to take any more. A different doctor arranged a full iron panel for her and it was discovered that her serum iron was incredibly high. Instead of moving the iron into ferritin it was just staying in the blood. So the woman was being poisoned by the iron supplements.

I think the moral of this tale is that, if something makes you feel bad, trust your body and stop taking it, don't trust the tests, or the doctor, or anyone on an internet forum.

[Jazzw in reply to humanbean]

A further Google found me the info that medical conditions that can increase levels of vitamin B12 (outside of supplementing) include liver disease, kidney failure and a group of blood cancers known as myeloproliferative disorders, which includes myelocytic leukemia and a condition that causes an overgrowth of red blood cells called polycythemia vera.

It's not as widely known as it should be. My other half discovered her B12 was very high courtesy of a Blue Horizon blood test. She hadn't been supplementing it. I mentioned it to the GP when I went with her to the surgery, us thinking at the time that she had gallbladder problems, and said that I'd read it could be a sign of liver disease. The doctor frowned at me and said, "No, never heard of that. I'm sure that's not anything to worry about."

Kate died 3 weeks later from metastatic cancer unknown primary, liver so shot to pieces they couldn't do a biopsy to find out what the primary cancer was (she would have bled to death when they inserted the needle). Not that it would have made any difference...

But it makes you wonder, doesn't it? It can be a real struggle to get doctors to test B12, but maybe if they did, they wouldn't only find all the cases of low B12 - they might just catch things like liver disease and leukaemia at a stage early enough for treatment.

[humanbean in reply to Jazzw]

I'm disappointed but not really surprised that the doctor didn't know about high B12 without supplementing being a danger sign. I imagine very few doctors know about it. They consider low B12 to be unimportant, so why would they know the consequences or ramifications of high levels?

If it isn't too personal and too nosy a question (ignore it if it is), what evidence did they need before they finally realised Kate had a massive problem?

[Jazzw in reply to humanbean]

Of course not. The doctor suspected pancreatitis, rather than gallbladder because of where the pain was at the time we went to the surgery. The doctor sent us straight to a nurse practitioner at our local hospital, saying it would be the quickest way of getting a scan done.

They only did X-rays though but admitted her so that she could have pain relief, then then following day they did a CT scan. And it was later that afternoon that the consultant told us she had lesions on her liver, her lungs, her peritoneum - you name it.

They said any treatment would be palliative, not a cure, but that they needed to know what sort of cancer it was to know what chemo it was. It was a Bank Holiday weekend, so they didn't send her down for a biopsy until Tuesday (5 days later). Fortunately, the radiologist checked her blood test results first and hit the roof - her clotting was deranged (often the case with advanced liver disease). And sent her back to the ward. And that was that, really. It took another week before I could get her home, and 3 days later she was dead.

Eek, sorry - this is depressing stuff. What I find mind-boggling is that six weeks earlier we'd been to Cornwall for a week, walking all over the place, miles a day. She got tired really easily but had for several years and everything was blamed on her being hypothyroid and her age. Of course, now I know it was much more than that...

[humanbean in reply to Jazzw]

It's good that you have the memory of that final holiday together and they are pleasant memories.

It's odd that everything was blamed on Kate's thyroid, because so many of us get told that "It isn't your thyroid!" over and over again.

I think doctors just blame whatever is handy.

[DellFinium in reply to humanbean]

Humanbean, if doctors don't consider B12 important, why does one hear of folk getting B12 shots?

[humanbean in reply to DellFinium]

Oh, I'm not saying that nobody ever gets treated. But getting treatment for low B12 can be a long hard fight, and the amount of treatment for many who do get it is often much too low.

[DellFinium in reply to humanbean]

Oh God, same old story. Perhaps we should crowdsource and get our own doctors trained properly.

[Hidden]

As I have got older I have become more suspicious/cynical

It is a site for selling their products.

Click on shop

Click on programmes

eg

Get the Hypothyroidism Revolution $127

[puncturedbicycle in reply to Hidden]

Yes, when there is a 'shop' section and/or when they don't cite sources I feel I'm being had.

[Lubix]

I suffered terribly with PA and didnt understand it or know what it was until i had my genetic data interpreted. This indicated to me that I had methylation issues. I had my blood b12 tested and it was high but i learned that it is often the case with PA, as the article suggests, if you are not producing transfer factor, you cannot utilize your b12. This can be genetic and also down to bile flow as i understand it. You need enough bile to utilize b12. This malfunction is common with chronic illness. I addressed this issue quite simply by supplementing methylcolbalamin which is the bioavailable form of b12 and is best taken sublingualy (lozenge) so it is absorbed thru the mucous membrane of the mouth. High serum levels of b12 can often be due to this problem and not cancer related.