Not strictly a thyroid question I know. My thyroid is now well managed but I've started to get lots of peri menopausal symptoms, so saw the same doctor as I use for my thyroid who suggested natural progesterone cream. I haven't had any hormone testing done but accepted his suggestion in desperation to resolve some of the symptoms.
I read up when I got home and it's a right mixed bag online. There are lots of people who seem to get on well with the cream but also some conflicting advice and some horror stories.
First question, where to apply. I was told to apply to thighs, buttocks and fatty areas in rotation, but online it says progesterone can build up in fatty tissue so apply to think skin like the wrists. An idea which is right?
Secondly, there are horror stories about it building up in your system and due to it accumulating in fatty tissue, is this the case and should I be worried?
I've decided to use it for this month as I had already started by the time I read everything and then to stop next month and do a hormone test to establish a baseline. But overall, I just feel are confused about it. Any thoughts would be most welcome.
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Lolalois
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Lolalois I use it, as recommended by a private hormone specialist, but not for peri menopausal symptoms as I am very post-menopause!
I was told to ignore what the I instructions say and put it on thin skinned areas in rotation
1) left inner arm, from armpit to wrist
2) right inner arm, from armpit to wrist
3) left inner thigh to back of knee
4) right inner thigh to back of knee
5) upper chest and neck
I honestly don't know how it will affect a hormone test if you've already been using it. If you want to do a test as a baseline, I'd personally stop now, leave it for a while before testing, rather than use it for a month before testing, I don't see how that can give you a baseline.
Thanks for the response, really helpful. I'll have only used the cream for about 10 days this month so am hoping if I stop at my period (they are still more or less regular) I can do the test next month without it having had too much impact if I don't use the cream next month. I thought if I stopped abruptly it might bring on my period but not sure to be honest!
I took Progesta Care cream thru my pause. 25 days a month to skin anywhere that's thin, in rotation - I can see SeasideSusie 's beaten me to it ! It helped a good deal and as I wasn't 'allowed' (nor did I want ) HRT due to familial breast cancer, it was pretty much the only thing I used. What your doctor won't tell you about perimenopause / menopause / breast cancer are all fab books by Dr Lee - not the thyroid one, another American dude a very wise man.
Unfortunately half way through my menopause I saw a doctor privately by referral from some menopause trust who said that NP was so gentle I could use it all the time, without issue. I quickly built up too much and had very stiff fingers for a while. Be careful. Read some books. There must be a health unlocked forum on this - have a look
Thanks for the reply. It is a bit challenging, there's quite a few symptoms that I can put up with and others that I don't want to put up with. The bio identical hormones seem like a good alternative to synthetic but I wish there was more consistent research and use as my sense is that everyone has to work it out for themselves which is likely to lead to some mistakes along the way. Still, on the plus side the cream has been very helpful so far and I'm only using a tiny amount.
I didn't know you could get it orally too. My one concern with the cream is that the dosing is a bit iffy, whereas orally it's more specific. Do you get that from a doctor if you don't mind me asking?
My doctor prescribes it for me and I get it at the military pharmacy at the hospital. It is a compounded medication. I take 75 to 100 mg. It may be different where you live. I live in Colorado, United States
I use the 'wellsprings' cream 20-1 the one with a little bit of oestrogen in it, but used to use serenity (progesterone only) prior.
I have also started 2 months ago on bio-identical testosterone.
it is a very individual thing and I would not be able to recommend any specific thing to anyone to be honest.
I am now entering menopause, my main 'peri menopause' symptom used to be heart pounding which plagued me for 2 years and it took me 'ages' to find out it was perimenopause related! (being on T3 meds it was easy to try and blame it on that!)
my menopause symptoms are vaginal atrophy (really badly though this is now beginning to resolve with the hormones and also vaginal home made DHEA pessaries) and difficulty in keeping a good muscle/fat ratio in my body, some difficulty in sleeping too...
I test my hormone levels whilst on bio-identical hormones, especially the testosterone/oestrogen, I heard saliva is the best method although I have only tested blood levels so far (I want to make sure I keep to a testosterone dose which is normal for a woman as excessive testosterone levels in a woman can lead to undesirable side effects).
the progesterone cream I apply in rotation to:
Inner arm, then hip then thigh then inner thigh (on left of body then move to right side of body), I have a 6 days break each month, the testosterone I apply each morning with no break.
I have no ill side effects from any of these bio-identical hormones so far.
Thanks for all the replies, really helpful. I've had a range of symptoms including anxiety, trouble sleeping, anovulatory cycles, some UTI type symptoms, shortened cycle and loss of libido. Oh, and terrible memory problems. Sounds like testing is important so I'll check with my practitioner the best way to do that.
I use the serenity cream rotating on thin areas that others have mentioned & only use it days 14 - 28 when progesterone tends to be at its lowest. If you are testing, it is best to have stopped for 2 weeks & aim for post ovulation dip. I've found it helps a lot with night flashes.
Thanks for this, that's how I use the cream, although the second half of the cycle is when you naturally produce progesterone so it replicates what the body would do itself. I'll definitely use on thin skinned areas.
Hello, Not sure if many people here have even heard of this, but l-arginine (an amino acid) is supposedly a safe way to help out if you have low progesterone and getting symptoms. I've not tried it, but found out about it recently from someone who has High BP and peripheral neuropathy. I looked it up and found out that it has a beneficial effect on hormones in some people.
I use other amino acids that really work to help digestive tract (l-glutamine) and aid sleep (taurine) and not tried l-arginine as a supplement as I eat quite a bit of poultry and assume I'm probably getting enough.
There is a lot of interesting work going on into the benefits of amino acids. The only contra-indication I've found is that l-arginine works against l-lysine and vice versa - they have to be in balance. Someone may have too much of one and too little of the other.
I may be wrong about the poultry though as I've just realised it's very high in lysine! Good job I plenty of nuts too (high in arginine/low in lysine).
That's true, thanks. Arginine is definitely a no-no if you have herpes-simplex... I'll let my brother-in-law know as he's told us of his struggle with cold sores. He is a default vegan as his wife and kids are vegans and they all eat a high arginine diet from the looks of things! Maybe he should supplement lysine. It's all about getting the balance right..
I have been reading your post with interest. I have just turned 44 and am taking bioidentical hormones for peri symtoms. My doc presribed bio progesterone and estrogen but until lately i have only been taking the progesterone (orally). The only blood tests i have had have been serum progesterone which came back very low..no test for estrogen so i wasnt taking any because i felt my symptoms pointed toward estrogen dominance and i still think they do, however it is likely that i am probably low in estrogen too but not as low as the progesterone if i'm making any sense! My current symptoms are ovarian cysts (in both ovaries), irritability, moodiness, crying a lot over anything, fury, over the top reaction toward some people and generally just not a nice person to be around if i'm honest. I am not getting the night sweats or heavy periods i have read about that some ladies get with peri/meno. I recently saw a gyno who suggested that my symptoms might be helped with the addition of some estrogen which i have tried for a few days but i feel even worst mentally. i am waiting to get an estrogen blood test which she suggested i do on day 2 or 3 of my next period which is due any day now although i dont think i am going to see a bleed as the progesterone last month made my bleed very dark. i really dont know what to do now, i think i wish i had got the estrogen tested the same time as the progesterone to establish a baseline, i think maybe now i have taking too much progesterone and possibly do need the estrogen so in the meantime i have stopped taking progesterone and the estrogen. i dont feel any better and i dont feel any worse at the moment so maybe it was too much of a good thing with the progesterone as initially when i was taking it i did feel a lot calmer instead of the anger i now feel. Would welcome any suggestions/ideas from any of you on here.
you do sounds very similar to me. I'm 44 too, and seem to be told a lot that I'm too young to be peri! My symptoms are pretty similar, its the anxiety, insomnia (related to the anxiety) and generally feeling out of sorts that bother me the most. I have to say I don't think the NHS are very helpful with these issues. I see someone privately. I understand that saliva testing is much more reliable than blood tests, my GP said blood levels of hormones often don't change till right at the end of the menopause.
Are you getting heavy periods and night sweats? It is the not getting of these that makes me think i dont need the estrogen. I am also private with the gyno as the NHS referal would have taken months and i wasnt prepared to put up with the recurring ovarian cysts and the rotten mood symtoms. I will be getting another scan next week to see if the cysts are still there or gone again with some replacements! I have also read that birth control is supposed to help with the cysts as it can prevent ovulation which seems to be the time i start to feel really rubbish although of late very weepy and irrational just before when my period should be due. As you say very little help from the NHS unless you are in menopause. I had insomnia night before last, hardly slept a wink and felt like my neck was pulsating, i have hashimotos and have recently had my blood test back which shows the need for an increase. Its a shame that the NHS Endocrinologists do not look at the overall endocrine system rather than just the thyroid as low progesterone and low thyroid and cortisol issues are all interlinked. I seem to be spending a lot of time reading about stuff (health related) but can never seem to find the right answer in how to sort my issues out. i feel very fed up to be honest.
No, I don't get hot flushes, night sweats or heavy periods, so tend to this I've got low progesterone/oestrogen dominance. It's definitely very frustrating trying to find the right solution to these sort of problems, I totally empathise! The online reading does contain contradictions too which doesn't help.
Hi I have been using progesterone cream or gel for 12 years off and on. Im 59 now and still not completely through menopause. I still have very light bleeding every 6 weeks or so. Ive never had a hot flush and dont have any menopausal symptoms. All my symptoms have been low thyroid which no gp I have seen will do anything about. They have passed me on to gynea but they pass me back because ive never had a hot flush. They all say they havent a clue whats wrong with me as all my bloods are normal according to them. I have just about every hypo symptom there is but docs are all scratching their heads like a bunch of idiots! Im sure the bleeding and late menopause are also thyroid related. NHS were looking for cancer but biopsies were all negative. Private said Adenymyosis. I was refused progesterone as was told at my age I didnt need it! So bottom line here what I discovered with a lot of research its all down to vit D. Without vit D your adrenals will not produce progesterone and without progesterone your thyroid wont function properly. Lack of vit D causes all sorts of gynea problems, as ovaries wont function properly etc. Reason why hypothyroid women have problems in pregnancy, endrometriosis etc. Its a visious circle. I have found the progesterone cream to be a life saver for me, kept me sane and helped to prop up my hormone levels when gps refused to help me. Im still working on the thyroid issue x
Interesting point. These symptoms started early last summer but then went away for the rest of the summer and returned before Christmas. In other words, I was a bit better when it was sunny! I do take plenty of vitamin D though so hopefully am not deficient. Glad to hear the progesterone cream helped.
Re thyroid, it's all about what's normal for you. If you post your test results on here people may be able to comment but ultimately it needs an open minded practitioner to support you with it.
Just my 2 cents worth - I have been taking bio-identical Progesterone cream for over 5 years every day. I have also read about Progesterone building up in fatty tissue but after years of daily application, on the same area (inner thighs) any change in dosage is reflected straight away in my blood tests. I take this to mean there is no build up. In me anyway... And maybe because its bio-identical? Maybe its the pharmaceutical cream that builds up in fatty tissue?
I have never heard of application of hormones to the buttocks and fatty areas? My specialist tells me to apply to areas of thin skin with little hair growth for best absorbtion (makes sense to me) i.e.; inner thighs, backs of knees, inner arms and collar bone. Although I avoid the décolletage area, I once applied some testosterone cream to this area and got a red face as a side effect.
There's some horror stories online about bio identical progesterone building up in fatty tissue despite following the instructions etc. But I guess there's always some people it doesn't suit. I'm sticking with thin skinned areas for application as that seems to be what the majority of people here do.
I tried it on both fatty areas and thin skinned areas - many brands - for several years and found it ineffective - including prescription cream. For me, I think Serenity worked btter than the others on fatty areas, but that's just me. Some good brands might not have been available back then.
I use natural progesterone, I am going through the menopause at a young age.
I would highly recommend reading 'what your doctor may not tell you about the menoapause' by Dr John Lee, he does have a peri menopause book as well but that doesn't go into as much detail.
It is not a walk in the park as it is about balance, it really worked wonders for me as I had a bad case of Estrogen Dominance, however I ended to having too much Natural Progestone and that was awful. I did use Wellsprings, but there cream is higher than what doctor Lee recommends and it is certainly too strong for me.
Interestingly I'm using far less than the suggested dose on the serenity cream. They say an eighth of a teaspoon twice a day but I use a pea side amount once a day, which is about 25% of what they suggest. I've looked at some stuff from John Lee online and it makes sense to me, though there seems to be some discrediting of his views online (hence my confusion!). What are the symptoms of too much progesterone if you don't mind me asking?
Dr John Lee goes against the norm, and would have had lots of grief because of this as did Dr John Lowe, Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield etc, I can say that John Lees book has been spot on with what has happened with me : >
The most common symptoms are becoming increasingly drowsy and internal candida, but alot of my symptoms also included my estrogen receptors coming back on line and going mental with the overload of natural progesterone.
I also can not get anywhere near the normal amount recommended but he does make it clear it is an individual thing :<
A bit late to this thread but was searching on the forum for people's thoughts on John Lee's book - what your doctor may not tell you about the menopause, because I have just got the book and a bit like all the hypo info found on the forum, it lifts the lid on the mysteries of female hormones. It's very enlightening for any woman, I can't believe how much I don't know! It is a very good investment of less than fiver from Amazon. It might be heading towards being 15/ 20 years old but a little gem I can see it being already. Wish I had read it when I turned 40😩.
I started getting peri symptoms in my mid forties palps and insomnia, though I now wonder if thyroid was in the mix. Low libido prompted me to go on HRT 18 months ago - did nothing for that but I felt a bit more like me. Now at 52 I'm still peri but since finding out that I'm Hashi's I've ditched that (big bang but low dose so mild withdrawals) and am awaiting Setenity bio natural progesterone.
One thing that keeps cropping up as a recurring theme and mentioned in his book too, is the need of cholesterol for the production of hormones. No wonder the myth of high carb low fat diets we've been following has contributed to women increasingly suffering with hormone issues.
Very interesting points. I haven't read the book itself but have read a lot about it. I got confused though as there's some stuff online criticising the book and saying progesterone can build up in fatty tissue and get released into the blood in large quantities causing problems. I don't know what to make of it to be honest because there's clearly loads of people who feel the cream benefits them. I've got the serenity cream, am Peri and mid forties. I'm only about 10 days in but feel very 'normal'. Makes me realise how out of sorts I was feeling before (if that makes sense). I hope it continues to work for me and doesn't build up. I'm going to test to be sure. This forum has been so helpful in providing reassurance.
Yes I read a bit on the Wellspring site about that. Basically they said to apply in alternate thin and fatty skin areas. Suggestions of going low and slow seems to be good advice, although Wellspring suggest that for the firsts month to double dose. I'm eagerly awaiting mine as day 14 is this weekend so want to catch the Boat!
Glad to hear you are already finding a more mellow you - that's what I'm hoping for😊 and myboobs to be less booby and tender (never imagined I'd ever say that LOL).
A bit like DrP's view was shunned I very much get the impression the same is true of Dr Lee.
There's going to be a lot of full circles in the near future.
Yes the forum has been a life saver in so many ways. I don't want the Hashi's hypo condition but it's sort of been the pathway to taking better care of my health. Ironic!
Im so glad you have found the book from Dr John Lee a great read, so have I, its a real masterpiece in my eyes, it's so well written and has really opened by eyes.
One thing I would say is be a little careful if you ask advice from Wellsprings - it really back fired on me, they do not seem to follow Dr Lees protocol, there cream is stronger than he recommends, so please be a little careful, I would not want what happened to me, to happen to anyone else - not even my worst enemy.
Kitten-whiskers Thanks for letting me know to be cautious with the Serenity, I got the impression it was a bit on the light side in terms of amount of progesterone, so very pleased to be alerted! So, much so that I was expecting to up the dose initially i.e 1/4 rather than 1/8. I notice that it doesn't actually state (as far as I can see) the amount of progesterone in it. From other's reviews the brands Natpro and Oona's (sp?) were thought to be better as they had more progesterone.
Okay so the advice of low and slow is definitely to be followed. I don't need another bombshell moment - mild but a little scary HRT withdrawal - went cold turkey. SeasideSusie gets on well with Elan, and I might well try that if I don't get on with Serenity.
I saw from one of your more recent posts (brain fog so can't remember exact subject) but remember seeing your name and that you have had a bit of a time of it. I hope things start improving for you - actually that sentiment goes for everyone! This pathway has numerous lanes and straddling them all at once is a bit of an ask.
I think if you look on Wellsprings website under the ingredients i think it was all listed there. I think I will be moving away from Wellsprings to be honest, but of course all creams have to come from abroad, but it is what it is.
Sorry you had a bad withdrawal, I certainly know what thats like - it's hard to balance our hormones, when the doctors won't do the relevent tests.
Stress in hindering my progress, so I have booked up my first every medidation class - fingers crossed that makes a big difference to my health in the long term.
Debs, did you use the serenity as per the instructions or less? They recommend 1/8 teaspoon twice a day but I'm only using it once a day. It's a bit random as they say the size of a pea is 1/8 teaspoon, but I try to go on the small pea side! They're very unclear about the amount of progesterone per serving of whatever you call it.
Also, how do you know if you're getting too much progesterone?
I followed Wellsprings instructions by the book (this was before I had read Dr Lees book) and basically I was putting it on twice a day, trying to get the size equal, as you say its a bit random, after the first two weeks my menopause symptoms really improved, and then suddenly they all started returning and infact getting worse - when I emailed wellsprings I was told to just increase the cream " as you could not ever have too much" two days after increasing things started to go absolutely mental - it is no exaggeration when I say I thought I was going to die, it took all off about three long painful, miserable months to finally calm down.
The advice should have been 'if your symptoms start returning then you need to cut back, or stop for a few days - there were fully aware of estrogen dominance and the turning back on of the dormant estrogen receptors.
How you know if you are having to much - I found I would start feeling really tearful, my menopause symptoms would start returning, I would become very drowys and worst of all I got the worst case of candida ever and also externally things swelled up and I had to have a steriod and antibotic cream to calm it down, which sadly thinned out the skin to much, leaving me with irreverisable damage.
It's never as easy as suggested, but now I proceed carefully
I use natural progesterone cream for the same reasons you are considering it. I like it a lot! It has helped me. I still have periods so I just use the cream on the days I'm not menstruating. That way your body gets a break from it each month. If you are not having periods, maybe just take it 3 weeks out of the month and take a week off.
Yes, my practitioner has said take it form days 12-26/8 of my cycle so I get a break. Glad it's helped you though, certainly so far so good for me although it's only been a few days, my partner described me as 'calmer' (!) by which I think he means less irritable and moody (poor bloke, he's very patient).
Has anybody here had issues with high cortisol? I'd like to try progesterone cream for very heavy periods but I'm afraid the progesterone will convert into cortisol.
I don't have high cortisol (to my knowledge) but have had adrenal fatigue which fortunately is now sorted. The practitioner I use treated my adrenal fatigue also gave me the progesterone cream and didn't mention this as a possible side effect. I think there's something on the Dr Lam website about progesterone and adrenal fatigue if that's any help.
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