Epsom Salt Baths...

[greygoose]

A modern necessity for health?

thehealthyhomeeconomist.com...

[Fruitandnutcase]

Thanks for that GG. I usually use magnesium flakes but as the article points out Epsom salts are as good fir a fraction of the price so I'll be swapping over from now on.

I've just looked on Amazon and the prices of the various brands seem to vary a lot. Any idea how to decide what is best? 🤔

[greygoose in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

None whatsoever, I'm afraid.

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose

As you may of gathered I'm quite new to the forum and have asked lots if questions.

Could I ask what the benefits are of using Epsom Salts in the bath relating to thyroid?

Also I recently placed my blood results on here and was advised to increase my Levothyroxine which I have from 100 mg to 125 mg only taken over the last three days. Plus my B12 was quite low (287) so I'm taking 5,000 mg of B12 plus 40 mg of B9, but I have had a really bad headache for the three days (I do suffer from migraines but it's not a migraine) could it be associated with changing and introducing new meds?

Lastly, my main concern is to get as healthy as possible but I would also like advice regarding the weight gain 3 stone I piled on after RAI can I lose it again and if so how do I go about it?

This forum is brilliant it has given me fresh hope.

Thank you

Gwendoline

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

I Don't think there are any direct benefits of magnesium baths for the thyroid.

But, the point is, any sort of nutritional deficiency is going to make you feel bad, and have symptoms. Therefore it's best to supplement any deficiency in one way or another.

Most people are deficient in magnesium, because soils are depleted, But the deficiency is going to be worse if you are hypo because of difficulties with absorption.

Magnesium is an extremely important mineral for bones, the muscles, the nervous system, the heart etc. So, best not to be deficient for your general health.

Good that you are supplementing your B12 - that's a very important vitamin - but why the B9? Was your folate low? If it was, then the best thing to do would have been to take a B complex with methylfolate in it. Just taking two B vitamins is not the right way to go, because they all work together and need to be balanced. But, you need a greater amount of B12 for a deficiency, than you do the others. So, methylcobalamin (B12) plus a B complex with methylfolate. That's the best way.

The headaches could indeed be due to introducing new meds - but what meds have you introduced? I doubt if it's due to the increase in Levo - although, one never knows.

If your weight-gain is due to your RAI, and becoming hypo, then you should lose it when your T3 is optimised. Do you ever get your FT3 tested? 125 mcg Levo is not a very high dose, and you could have problems converting. So, if you haven't had the T3 tested, best to do so. It will be difficult to lose weight if it's too low.

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose

Thank you for your info I'm trying to absorb all the help I'm receiving.

I have listed below my blood results just what I think are the important ones.

Serum free T4 level 14.5

Serum free T3 level 3.7

B12 286

Folate 8.70

Ferritin 94 ug/L

HbAlc 40 mm

I commented earlier to Marz about female dogs being spayed and that vets are now promoting not to have your dog spayed as they have done a five year trial and the outcome is our dogs are now susceptible to thyroid problems. A certain doctor is also encouraging vets to ignore the so called range and if the bloods are read properly to medicate early. Think some if us might be better off seeing a vet!

Regards

Gwendoline

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Not my vet! B****y moron. He refused to entertain the idea that my dog had a thyroid problem, despite his back-ground and unexplained weight-gain. On the one hand, he insisted that he couldn't have a thyroid problem because he had no appetite, and hypo dogs eat all the time. And on the other, he said that his weight-gain was due to over-eating. Well, you can't have it both ways!!!

OK, you bloods :

For FT4 and FT3, absolutely need the ranges. Although they look low, one can't say for sure, because ranges vary from lab to lab.

B12 is dangerously low, there. Optimal is 1000, but anything Under 500 can lead to irreversable neurological damage. When were these labs done?

Folate isn't too bad. You really Don't need to supplement it seperately. Just taking the B complex, as mentioned above, will bring it up.

Ferritin isn't too bad, could be a tad higher.

I Don't know what HbAlc is!

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi

All these pratt's that call themselves professionals, I walked out on one vet who said my Pekingese puppy had tonsillitis (he would drop to the floor gasping for breath when playing) I changed vets was asked why when I told him the previous vet said he had tonsillitis he asked me what I thought it was I said soft palette (a flap of skin at the back of the throat that swells if the dog gets over heated or excited). Having lost a bulldog at 2 years old some ten years previous with the same fault I was hoping it wasn't. He said I was correct and referred me to a vet that specialises in ears, nose and throat where he had the flap removed and one if his nostrils enlarged. I still have my gorgeous Noodle is ten years old now.

Anyway on to thyroid I will email you my results again with the ranges if you don't mind.

Many thanks oh and change your vet, I'm lucky I found an excellent vet can't find a good. Doctor though,

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Oh, I most definately am going to change my vet! But, we Don't have a lot of choice round here, so here's hoping the next one will be better!

You can post your blood tests on here, no problem.

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Serum TSH level. 5.6 mU/L. 0.35 - 5.50 mU/L

Report comments

Still in thyroxine. If so, adequate dose, compliance.

Note new reference ranges for fT4 and TSH from 2/7/2015

FREE T4 (PR11685) Normal - No Action required

Serum free T4 level. 14.5 Pomo/L. 10.00-20.00pmol/L

Serum free T3 level. Normal no action required. 3.7 pool/L. 3.50 - 6.50 pool/L

Full Blood Coun - FBC - (PR11685) Normal No Action required

Haemoglobin estimation 135 g/L 115.00 - 165.00 g/L

Red blood cell (RBC) count. 4.53 10*12/L. 3.80 - 5.80 10*12/L

Haematocrit. 0.41 L/L. 0.37 - 0.47 L/L

Mean corpuscular volume (MCV). 91.4 fL. 84.00 - 105.00 fL

Mean corpuscular haemoglobin (MCH). 29.7 pg. 27.00 - 32.00 pg

Mean corpuscular Hb conc. (MCHC). 325 g/L. 305.00 - 350.00 g/L

Red blood cell distribut width 13.5. 11.50 - 14.50

Total white cell count 8.2 10*9/L. 4.00 - 11.00 10*9/L

Neutrophil count. 4.9 10*9/L. 1.80 - 7.50 10*9/L

Lymphocyte count. 2.4 10*9/L. 1.00 - 4.00 10*9/L

Monocytes count. 0.4 10*9/L. 0.20 - 0.80 10*9/L

Eosinophil count. 0.2 10*9/L. 0.00 - 0.40 10*9/L

Basophils count. 0.1 10*9/L. 0.00 - 0.10 10*9/L

Platelet count. 191 10*9/L. 150.00 - 450.00 10*9/L

Report Comments

Please note change in MCV range.

Serum vitamin B12 (PR11685) - Normal no action required. 286 ng/L. 211.00 - 911.00 ng/L

Serum folate (PR11685) - Normal no action required.

Red blood cell folate. 8.70 ug/L. >4.00 ug/L

Serum ferritin (PR11685) - Normal no action required. 94 ug/L. 10.00 - 291.00 ug/L

HbA1c level - UFCC standardised - (PR11685) 40 mm old/mol. 20.00 - 41.00 mm ol/mol

It's all Chinese to me.

Good luck with a new vet🐾

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Yes, well, that confirms it, your TSH is way too high, your FT4 and FT3 are both too low - the FT3 much too low. You must have a lot of symptoms. And your B12 is too low.

There is definately nothing normal about those results! Once again a case of a bunch of pratts calling themselves professionals!

You definately need to increase your Levo, and supplement the B12.

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose

Thank you for confirming that I'm not a hypochondriac or losing my marbles. I have increased my thyroxine three days ago from 100 mg to 125 mg and also taking B12 (I have only been tested for my Vitamin levels once ( 18/12/2015) in ten years that's how long ago I had RAI and that's because I insisted with my current doctor). I've only ever had 100 mg of thyroxine for medication in ten years! My bloods were done on the 18th of December 2015 I stopped my thyroxine two days previous as suggested on this forum. The time the bloods were taken was 9.40 am I had nil by mouth from the previous evening around 10.00 pm. Got the results on the 22nd of December, since then I have been self medicating purchased B12 and Folic Acid 400 mcg, I have yet to get VitC as I would like to come off Omeprizole currently I have reduced this to one capsule every other day. I have also stopped taking 40 mg of Simvastatin apparently given because of hereditary purposes not diet related it was quite high 9.3 last time it was checked it was 6.4.

Would you suggest I get hold of T3 and start introducing this as well, are you saying because of my current level this is one of the reasons for my weight?

My symptoms are endless, I have felt really ill the last two years suffering from mainly chronic fatigue, joint aches and pains, insomnia I get about two hours some nights if I am lucky, but want to sleep during the day.

I am seeing an endocrinologist on the 19th February again at my

insistence. I want to feel healthy and fully genned up in readiness for any crap I might get!

Thanks again

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Yes, T3 would help - if you can get it!

And yes, your results are the reason you have so many symptoms and are not feeling well.

How much B12 are you taking? Folic acid is not a good thing to take. As I explained above, you want a B12 with methylfolate, not folic acid.

High cholesterol is rarely connected to diet - if ever. It's made in the liver because the body needs it. But when your T3 is too low, it can't be used properly and hangs around in the blood. It will go down as your T3 goes up. Statins are just a great big con to make money for Big Pharma - glad to hear you've stopped them!

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi I feel as if I am getting somewhere can't believe it's down to the so called doctors why I am feeling like this and having to cope with it!

I am taking presently as advised on here High Strength Methyl B12 5mg until I get my B12 reading up then drop it to 1mg. But again only been taking it a few days. I will stop the Folic Acid.

How long in your opinion do you think I will notice a difference?

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Impossible to say. It depends so much on how long it's been low, etc. And, we're all different.

When my B12 was 350, I was losing the use of my right arm. I got the use back after a couple of months on B12.

But, Don't forget the B complex!

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Can you recommend a B complex, one that is good as there are so many of them please and I suppose there are different strengths again what would you recommend I take strength wise?

I can order it on line with the Vit C, are there any other meds I need to take, I intend changing to a Gluten free diet will this help me?

You have been so good, I can't thank you enough👍

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

A gluten-free diet will help you if you have coeliac disease or are sensitive to gluten or wheat, It might help you if you have Hashi's, and it might not. But other than that, I Don't think it makes much difference.

I take Thorne B-complex #12, but there are other Thorne B complexes. I think the strengths are all pretty much the same. I haven't looked, to be honest.

As to what you need to take, you first need to be tested. How's your vit D? That should be tested before supplementing.

But, you must only start one thing at a time, and stay on it for a couple of weeks before introducing something new.

You haven't been on the B12 very long, so give that time to settle. And, during that time, get your vit D tested, and we can take it from there. One step at a time!

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you, I'm on a Vit D3 it must be low as I was prescribed about three months ago I take 2 daily but my doctor had a bone density test about three weeks ago (I slipped in my kitchen two years ago and broke my leg and damaged my shoulder) had a different doctor when this happened and apparently I should have had a bone density test then but I was never told so only just tested. As previously stated it must be low as the doctor gave me an additional Vit D to take three times a week for two weeks as well as the two daily Vit D3!!!!

🃏 In my opinion some doctors remind me of this joker!

Thanks again

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

To right! So, how much vit D are you getting a week, now?

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi

I'm taking 2 X 600 mg per day of Accrete D3 film coated and

20,000 IU colecalciferol (vitamin D3 500 mcg) X 3 X per week.

Can I over dose on this.

Oh by the way I actually slept well last night first time in months not sure if some if these drugs are working or the fact I've found some excellent support!

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Are you sure that's 600 mg, and not mcg, because that's a hell of a lot of vit D3! And giving 500 mcg three times a week wouldn't make much difference to that.

Yes, you can over-dose on vit D3, but doctors often Don't give enough, that's why I asked.

[Gwendoline1612 in reply to greygoose]

Hi

I've pulled the info out of the box and it says

Accrete D3 contains

Cholecalciferol 400IU

(Equivalent to 10 micrograms) and calcium 600 mg (as calcium carbonate 1500 mg) in each tablet.

Wonder why my doctor has introduced yet more D3 I.e. The Hux D3, makes me wonder if they know what and when they have prescribed!

Unbelievable

[greygoose in reply to Gwendoline1612]

Sounds to me like this one has no idea what he's doing! And now, I'm totally confused!

So, what he gave you the first time was actually calcium with a little bit of D3. Did he test your calcium before prescribing that? Because even if your calcium is very low, it's not a good thing to take. I think you ought to question him about that.

So, what you're actually taking in the way of D3 is about 41.5 mcg a day, is that correct? It doesn't help that they are both in different units - mcg and IU - and I'm really, really rough at maths! So, please check that. But, if I'm correct, that wouldn't raise the D3 in a gnat, let alone a deficient human being!

See here :

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

However, as I said, maths isn't my strong point, so I suggest you post another question on the subject of D3, and then someone like Marz or Rod can answer. They're better at these things than me.

But, my opinion is, you shouldn't be taking all that calcium, plus the D3 - which raises calcium levels, anyway - without any vit K2, which assures that the calcium goes into the bones and not the tissues, like the heart and the kidneys. But I Don't suppose your doctor knows anything about that!

And, you need more D3, in my opinion.

In your new question, quote what you're taking, the level of your D3 when tested, and the level of calcium if that was tested. OK? Sorry I can't help more on that one.

[Suin]

Many thanks, I'd been taking a suddy bath after in the Epsom salts, so was doing it all wrong😳

I think the ones that I bought were for use in garden, they cost £18 for 25kg online

And my delivery man gave off, as they were too heavy.🙊

[greygoose in reply to Suin]

lol Well, 25 kg is 25 kg whatever it is. Even I could lift that! (Although I wouldn't unless I absolutely had to!) He's obviously not fit for the job. lol

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Suin]

I've been buying the kilo bags of magnesium flakes and I always get my other half to bring them home for me because of the weight so no wonder your delivery guy was complaining.

Reminds me of a delivery guy who on delivering something heavy said 'I put inside for you?' I replied 'If you like, that would be very nice of you' he then said 'I no like - but I do'.

[Suin in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Lol so funny,

If I was doing delivery people wud never get anything 💤

[Hidden]

I use Westlab Epsom Salts in my bath. They are about five pounds from Boots for a kg..

However I noticed them on the Nutricenter website where they are not only cheaper (and even less with 20% discount for ThyroidUK members) but you have them delivered so saving all that lugging home (coz they are heavy.)

Flower

nutricentre.com/p-57730-eps...

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Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.

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[stig5882]

I would love to be able to have epsom salt baths but unfortunately my other half is disabled and we had to have our bath removed and a wet room installed.

[stig5882 in reply to stig5882]

Mmmm! I wonder if taking epsom salts orally would be beneficial?

[greygoose in reply to stig5882]

I wouldn't recommend it! It's very bitter. But you could get a large washing-up bowl and do a foot soak. Sit with your feet in it for an hour while you're watching telly might not be just as good, but pretty good, anyway.

[spongecat in reply to greygoose]

The footbath is a great idea for those with no bath. Will make the skin nice and soft too!

I wouldn't take them orally. As GG says, it tastes awful and you might be familiar with the expression..."Went through me like a dose of Epsom Salts!".....

[stig5882 in reply to spongecat]

Enough said spongecat...lol Thanks for the advice xx

[stig5882 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks for that greygoose I will definately give that a try. I love this forum and all you lovely people. xx

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to stig5882]

You could do what GG suggests or try using a Better You Magnesium Spray - you spray it onto the soles of your feet. I do it at night before I get into bed and put on a pair of socks.

[greygoose in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Yes, but then you wouldn't get the sulphur element that they're talking about here.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to greygoose]

Doh! Of course you wouldn't, hadn't thought of that.

[humanbean in reply to stig5882]

Epsom salts taken orally are really, really difficult to get down because they taste absolutely vile. They used to be used, many years ago, as a very effective laxative.

I tried it once, as a teenager. Never, never again.

[Treepie in reply to stig5882]

Knew I should have kept the bath but getting in and out is more difficult ad we age ! As ever GG has a solution - of salts.

Recall my father having a glass of Andrews Liver Salts every morning- wonder what is in them,will have to check.

[greygoose in reply to Treepie]

Ha Ha! Of salts!

Sodium bicarbonate, citric acid, magnesium sulphate - I Wonder if your father was hypo, too.

[stig5882 in reply to greygoose]

I had an uncle who took Andrew's Liver Salts every day but he was a bit too fond of a drink lol Also I just remembered, after the birth of both my children the midwife told me to take Epsom Salt tablets (no longer available) to scatter my milk. Done a great job too.

[greygoose in reply to stig5882]

Scatter your milk? What does that mean?

[stig5882 in reply to greygoose]

After childbirth, if you don't breastfeed or express your milk the breasts get engorged & very painful taking the tablets help s the body to stop producing milk.

[greygoose in reply to stig5882]

Ah ok. But, I didn't know the verb was 'scatter'. How very strange. I would have said 'dry up'.

[stig5882 in reply to greygoose]

LOL maybe it's an old Irish saying? :/ I am from Northern Ireland originally

[greygoose in reply to stig5882]

Could well be. I'm from London, and had my babies in the South of England, so I never came across that word.

[Treepie]

More likely constipated.

[greygoose in reply to Treepie]

Yeah... But that is one of the major symptoms of hypo.

[humanbean]

Greygoose, I love the cartoon!

[greygoose in reply to humanbean]

Thank you, humanbean. Actually, it's too true to be funny!

[Shirlchristine]

Epsom salts are available on e-Bay at very good prices. If you buy a tub you can then keep re-filling it with packets.