I finally received my Thyroid S from Thailand after six long weeks. I have 1000 tablets of 60mg each. Does anyone know the breakdown dose of T4 and T3 in these pills? I have read (for other thyroid meds) the breakdown is 1 grain for 60mg, and that one grain contains 38mcg of T4 and 9mcg of T3. Is this also true for Thyroid S? I know NDTH is a 4 to 1 ratio, of T4 to T3 and humans require a 14 to 1 ratio so I have been supplementing with Levothyroxine to bring my levels up to par, using Nutri-Meds, (which I hear are much weaker than Thyroid S. I went through a lot to find a good balance but I am still not feeling at the top of my game, ringing in ears, fatigue, pounding heart at times, short of breath, loss of hair, etc. and now I am ready to start what I have been reading is a really good NDTH, (Thyroid S) I would like to know more about it. Any information anyone?
Thyroid S breakdown?: I finally received my... - Thyroid UK
Thyroid S breakdown?
Welcome to the forum, MMG207.
Thyroid-S 60mg contains 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3. It's bioactively equivalent to 75-100mcg Levothyroxine. There is a list of the excipients in this link stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...
It sounds like you may be undermedicated. If you post your recent thyroid results with ranges (figures in brackets) members will advise.
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I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
My doctor refuses to give me any lab results saying only I am in the "normal range" and this is when he tests my thyroid once a year. I was on 50 mg Levothyroxine for 3 years (having three tests) and have gained almost 100 lbs during that time and gotten very sick. He says my breathing is COPD, my sleeplessness is because I need an air machine to breathe, my hair is falling out and nails are brittle because I am old,( 71) and I am depressed because I am a widow, I have sores on my body because I have bad skin. Can't get another doctor either, in Canada I had to wait almost 3 years to get this one so I am self medicating. Presently taking 130mg of NTH by Nutri-Meds plus one 20mg of Levo the doctor prescribed. I just received my Thyroid S from Thailand and am trying to figure out the dose to start with as I have heard the Nutri Meds are comparatively weaker. This is very difficult and I am so happy to have found this site for support because I want so much to be healthy again. I know I am old, but I shouldn't be feeling this bad.
And thank you so much for your timely reply to my question. I forgot to say thank you first. I really do appreciate your information.
MMG207, Nutri-Meds don't state how much hormone, if any, is contained so it's difficult to gauge how much to take.
If you are only taking 20mcg Levothyroxine start with half a grain (30mg) Thyroid-S. You can increase to 1 grain (60mg) in 2 weeks if you don't feel overmedicated. If you need to increase further, do so in 1/4 grain increments every couple of weeks and hold at 2 grains for 4-6 weeks. Have a thyroid test before increasing further.
thyrophoenix.com/adjusting_...
_______________________________________________________________________________
I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
Hi thereMMG 207,
I can understand your concerns because when we are older we wonder if we're ever going to feel well again!
However,I was about your age when I first asked for help here and remember someone's first reply to me saying...."It doesn't matter how old you are,you are entitled to feel well"
I am now on the wrong side of 74 heading toward 75 and the people here have been a great help to me and I am sure you will find the same.
My thoughts are....Why won't your GP reveal details of your test results?
I too was on 50mcgs Levo for even longer...10years and not feeling good.It was only through help here I and reading that I found that my TSH though supposedly "In Range" was too high to feel well and that when first being prescribed ,my meds should have been gradually increased every few weeks until I was optimally treated and my symptoms were relieved.Eventually my GP agreed to raise my meds to75 and then 100 mcgs.At that point I began to feel better.
I would suggest trying to get hold of the details of your blood test results,so that you have more information to work with.
With regard to NDT meds I am at present taking Armour thyroid so know nothing about Nutri-Meds.
It is all a gradual learning curve I'm afraid but I am sure you would get some suggestions here if you are able to give your blood test results.
I wish you well x
Thank you so much for your thoughts and your experiences. I really believe it's a personality thing with my doctor. I think he feels threatened somehow when anyone questions anything. It's sad but true. I am already feeling somewhat better on Nutri Meds but start my Thyroid S today. Can't wait to see the results.
Glad to hear you are feeling better and hope all goes well for you with the Thyroid S.
It will be interesting to see what your results reveal.
You have a right to see your results as part of the NHS Charter. I will look it up and post a link to it.
Thank you. I'm getting the evil eye from my doctor when I even ask if it's normal. He will probably charge me money to give me results even if he has to give them.
honey there is a protocol in the book "stop the thyroid madness" I would send you the link, but my ipad is not working. You start our really slow and each week you add another small bit till you body starts to feel better. I am not a doctor but I also take Thyroid-s, there was a time I was breathless and depressed, and it seemed like nothing would help, but this really turned my life around, I lost dress sizes and bulk, my heartburn stopped, I feel so sorry for you honey, I will try to get my I pad working and send the link, but I am sure one of these good ladies will get it to you faster than myself. I am sure you will feel better in two weeks. good luck honey. there is hope. Rita
Thanks so much Rita. Yes, I started very slow with Nutri Meds. First 1 grain for three weeks, then 2 for three weeks then 2 plus 25mcg Synthroid, then three weeks later 2gr Nutri Meds and 50mcg Synthroid. Now I'm a bit worried that I will have to start at the bottom again. I hardly have any hair left, LOL, and finally getting to sleep more than 40 minutes at a time. I'm going to try 1 grain of Thyroid S alone for a couple of weeks and see what happens.
there ya go Clutter just gave you the way to take that medication. lots of love honey, look forward to feeling better. bless ya luv x
Thank you so much Rita. 
Sorry, I don't accept that you are old. I am 79 this year, and my weife who is on NDT is 76.
Good luck with your meds.There are lots of helpful sufferers on here.
Thank you Chrys. No, I don't feel that old either. It's just the excuse my doctor gives to me every time I have a thyroid symptom.
Chrys
I am 73 and not having success with Levo and T3.
Does your wife get NDT from the doctor or privately?
Would you P.M. me with any info if you don't mind?
Thank you Pp
You can order Thyroid-S directly from the manufacturer online without prescription. It is made by Sriprasit Pharma Co. Ltd. in Thailand. A Google search will take you to their site.
Hi PP, I think I sent you a message, but can't now find it. Did you receive it OK?
Yes Chrys, if it was the one saying doctors have to give you results if requested. It isn't working for me though. 
Hi Chrys
I think we have gremlins lol.
I haven't received a reply to my query.
Regards Pp
I understand that NHS Doctors are obliged to give you your results if requested. Certainly we asked for, and received, ours.
I think you should buy the Stop The Thyroid Madness book, it will tell you exactly how to dose and to increase and also discusses and explains a ton of other thyroid/Adrenal issues and what to do. You can get the book on amazon.com or directly from the website which is stopthethyroidmadness.com
It is very interesting what you say about the T3:T4 ratio in NDT being very different from the T3:T4 ration in humans...I have been wondering if it would be a good idea to supplement with T4 only to get FT4 levels up (mine are mid-range on NDT), but I have been wondering what would happen if you have both FTs at the upper normal limit on NDT? I think the idea of having optimal T4 levels on thyroxine only is so that you have lots of T4 available for T3 conversion but, if you've been put on NDT because you don't convert T4 to T3 very well, would there be any point in adding T4 to NDT? I have never understood if T4 is biologically active on its own, or is only there for T3 conversion...?
I really don't know, but after I read about the ratio, I decided to try it and it really made me feel better although I'm not at my best yet. As for conversion, I don't know if I am or not. I was not put on NDT by my doctor, I put myself on it out of desperation because he found other reasons for my symptoms and I knew it was my thyroid but he wouldn't listen. He has never changed my synthroid once since I went on it almost 4 years ago and I have continued to gain weight and other symptoms have been getting worse and worse until I self medicated. I don't like having to do it but can't seem to find another way here in Canada.
Plus, I just read on the STTM that, adding extra T4 to NDT can cause RT3 (reverse T3)...making T3 (or the active hormone) more or less useless to your body...?
Wow! There is so much conflicting information out there it's confusing, but I really do believe when we find the right dosage of the right meds, we will feel better and that is the key. Thank you for the info though, I hadn't heard that yet.
Thecat346,
I've thought about that as well. This is not a very medical answer but I think that so long as you have enough T3, getting to cell level, whether it be from your own conversion (feeble or otherwise) or from the NDT pill, then your T4 level is largely irrelevant. I don't think zero would be wise, but low T4 and high T3 combined with feeling well makes sense. I don't think the higher ratio of T3 to T4 in NDT does any harm, it just means you get more T3.
I take NDT, my T4 is low, my T3 is high and I feel great. As far as I am concerned, end of story.
For what is is worth, when I was on Levo with a sensible GP he let me boost my Levo to 137mcg until I was generating enough T3 (from my feeble "converters") until I was functioning well. I don't know if that was safe, or what it's long term ramifications were, but it sure did work for a couple of years, then he retired.
Oh, and MM207, my heart breaks for you. I am in my 70's too and I do not think you should be experiencing such ill health. I wish the medical profession could get it's act together, what is happening to you should happen to no one.
Thank you LAHs. And thank you for clearing up the T4-T3 ratio bit as well. I took my first Thyroid-S this morning and by mid afternoon was dragging myself around so I took another. I had been taking 2 grains of Nutri-meds Porcine thyroid, so I felt it would be safe. I am pulling at the bit to feel better, I can't even remember what normal feels like anymore. Losing weight would be like gold because I think the extra weight is also contributing to my fatigue and arthritis pain. Thanks for your concern and I do hope you are feeling well.
LAHs,
I just saw this post and I hope you are still reading posts here: which brand of NDT are you on, and how much?
I am on Armour NDT (that's porcine). Normally I am on 1.5 grains (and felt wonderful) but very recently I had a blood pressure scare (it ran up to 180/~70) and found that a heavy dose of garlic plus a reduction in my NDT dose (to 1 grain) reduced my blood pressure to normal (120/70). I am not sure which had the biggest effect, the reduction in NDT dose or the large garlic dose. My strategy is to lose some weight because this reduces your blood pressure and then creep my NDT dose back to 1.5 grains - because I felt great at that level. While I do not have any negative symptoms due to the NDT dose reduction I do sleep far too long now, from 8:00pm 'till 6:00am, that is no good in general, I have things to do! I also now experience some arthritis in my knees, that will go away when I am back on 1.5 grains.
I will post my results after I have achieved my goal.
So you are one of those doing fine on Armour, despite the reformulation...? Good to know. I am currently on Thai NDT, but have been considering going back to one of the two brands available in Belgium: Armour and Erfa.
Good luck!
Interestingly I just came across this yesterday which says T4 is important!
tiredthyroid.com/blog/2015/...
Thank you so much. It is very interesting. Thank goodness for this site where we can share.
Also, I have always believed if T4 wasn't important, why does our body produce it through our thyroid.
Hi MMG, in a perfect world, T4 is the promise of T3 but no guarantee. Natural thyroid also contains T2, T1 and calcitonin.
Here is a couple of relevant articles until you get your book from STTM:
Really good article. I also read that the brain prefers to get it's own T4 from the blood stream and makes the T3 it requires to function within itself. It can get some T3 from the blood but mostly it gets in via T4.
Good article, I couldn't agree more. While I do not understand the chemistry behind all that, it just never felt right to miss out such an important building block of endocrinology. I myself was on T3 only, Cytomel, for 3 months +/- after my total thyroidectomy and I agree that I felt great. I will have to study that article so that I understand it. I once worked through a paper on how the blood brain barrier only wants T4 so that the brain can make it's own T3 - but I got shot down for that belief and I could not find the paper again, I was just browsing around and got very deeply into one reference after another after another and could not pick up the thread again. So I couldn't argue my case. And, of course, the psychiatric community uses T3 only for mental problems, which work, so that's T3 crossing the BBB - it's a difficult study. Anyway, thanks for the reference.
Good luck I am on large dose due to thyroid operation and was surprised that as I get older they increase the dose ! Hope you find a stable dose and feel better soon !
So happy to hear your problem is being treated and that you are getting the dose of hormones you need. Stay well and good luck back at you. Thank you for your good wishes.
Penandink,
I wasn't sure which large dose you are on. Straight after surgery (if it was thyroid surgery) you should be on T3 only for about a month. This is because any T4 at this stage could stimulate cancer cells which could have been inadvertently distributed during surgery. They like to keep TSH very low (called "suppressed") and T3 only will do that whereas the presence of T4 will cause the pituitary to "liven up", produce TSH and possible reactivate cancer cells.
Hello do not worry was not put on high dose immediately after op which was in 1993 so had lots of blood tests ! Just wanted to say my doctor said would be on higher dose as got older and concerned lady responded to was obviously not getting enough meds and hoped she stable soon ! I was very ill and had thyroid storm and was nearly sectioned in 1992 so would not of worried about later affects of dosage ! Looking at most posts I am lucky as people who have really suffered have had long term hypothyroidism which was undiagnosed! I was young and have had full life apart from weight gain due to being drugged up but I have never been worried by weight better to be alive than slim ! Levels have never defined me but do appreciate it will get me and heading towards menopause ! I am philosophical as could be my sibling who had a double transplant and is bipolar ! Know I am the lucky one
I just bought Thyroid-S for the first time too off Amazon, it takes 6 weeks to arrive?! Hope it works for you
Hi MMG207,
You sound hypo to me too. Pity about your doc but I can sympathize with not wanting the fight. Perhaps it might be worth getting a private lab range done and posting results here. Re your dosing/ hormone content concerns : this thread discusses the difference between NDT and over the counter glandular sold as food supplements. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
NDT (including thyroid s) contains active hormone whereas over the counter food supplements such as Nutri meds dried thyroid gland do not (some have debated it does, but very little. ) In short, NDT is far stronger. If I read aright, you took one grain of thyroid S followed by another because you felt you were still dragging. 2 grains of NDT is equivalent to approximately 200 mcg of levothyroxine.
There is much controversy over the benefits and dangers of taking T3 in relation to heart function. My experience is that my heart is behaving a lot better than when I was hypo - breathless, skipped and ectopic beats and generally allover the place...like everything else. But t3 will stimulate your heart directly so be aware of heart rate and blood pressure up-regulating, and that your heart can cope with this if it does.
Many patients claim they have had little or no trouble switching from synthetic to natural but, and this includes from my own experience, do not up a dose randomly - especially not at the start of your new dosing and meds. Follow the guidelines referred to further up the thread to safely increase your doses. 2 grains of NDT will be far more powerful than a tiny dose of Levo in combination with 2 grains nutri meds. For starters you will be getting a big hit of the active hormone T3. The body needs to adapt to the raise in the active hormones and the healing changes thereafter takes time too, including rise in energy etc. If you do inadvertently become overstimulated (over medicated/replaced), it will wear off in a few hours but if the symptoms are drastic you must get help. So....please follow the previously posted dosing protocol recommendations. If you start at one grain, as commonly recommended, that is still stronger than your previous regime. It might take a week or two to start to feel improvements, although some claim days. We are all different symptomatically and replacement needs.
Best of luck for a steady improvement.
You have done the right thing joining here :)x
P.S you might enjoy this
drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/...
Hi Helbell and thank you, thank you, thank you. I found out the hard way about the Thyroid-S. Pounding, erratic heartbeat all night, (no sleep) and most of today. I was really in the dumps, wondering if anything was ever going to help me and you just explained what was happening. The Nutri-Meds were just not doing it, that's why I still felt pretty bad, and the Thyroid-S was not an equal dose, but much stronger. It was like TNT! Today I took nothing. Trying to clear my system so I don't do damage. Would you suggest, such as another person already did, that I start Thyroid-S at 1/4 grain for a week or two? If so, should I just stop the Levo? Your links are very helpful and you will never know how much I appreciate the time and effort you took to share your understanding of these hormones and OTC meds.
Oh Dear....yes, kaboom. Im glad I spotted your dosing comments as I was flash readimg the posts and thought...eek. The best things you can do for yourself is get a private thyroid panel done and post results for advice from admin here, and get your heart function checked so that you are reasured it can take any potential further blips from dosage trial and error. If you can afford, get a ndt friendly private endo. I did this in case I had a medical emergency and my self treatment choice came back to bite me on the bum. Without being under a registrered practitioner, you run the risk of not being fully supported by your general surgery should you get in a tangle. Self dosing on a potentially dangerous drug needs discipline....I still struggle with that on bad days 
I would think leaving off for one day is wise, then try half a grain....and post another topic for ndt dosing advice (including your innadvertant high starting dose) , keep following the links given and, perhpas join an ndt specific community, such as FTPO on fb, or Yahoo NDT. Im working on a crummy android tablet but will post links later, if it helps. I realise you are walking through a minefield of info right now...keep at it and it will start to make sense. Beware of all the hyped-up thyroid guru sites who, ironically, are all beautiifull, young and slim, and selling. This is not an easy ride but ndt might suit you better, at very baseline you might well have been under replaced on t4 hence still not explored the option of proper dosing on Levo. If your heart is still racing or blood pressure innapropriately elevated on half grain, stop until you get more advice. This is a long thread and a new topic will gain admin attention quickly. x
Thanks so much again helbell. What you are saying makes sense. Firstly, I cannot afford any independent lab testing as I am on a fixed (very low) income. I do have one question though that occurred to me as I looked at the ceiling last night before sleep. I've been told Thyroid-S contains 38 mcg of T4 and 9 of T3. Did you mean something else when you said TS contains 100mcg of live hormone? I have read numerous books on Thyroid from the library and have been searching for some relief from these terrible symptoms and felt I had finally gotten to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I am determined to see this through and although I do realize I am treading in a minefield, I believe I can find the answer if I just take thing slowly and research, research, research, using my own God given intelligence to balance things out. Thank you for caring so much. I don't feel I am in this quagmire alone anymore.
One grain (60 - 65 mg) of dessicated thyroid concentrate is roughly equivalent to 100 mcg thyroxine, potency-wise, taking into account both t4 and t3 present in the dessicated hormone (as you quoted above per grain) , This made your dose of 2 grains nearly the eqivalent of suddenly raising your levo dose to two hundred mcg. Looking at it in those terms that is a walloping increase compared to what you are used to, as well as it containing a fast acting hormone. As you probably know by now, we convert t4 to t3, but taking pure t3 delivers a direct hit. Think of it like eating pure sugar as opposed to eating food our body turns into sugar...bam! And two grains of NDT is too high a starting dose, anyway. I grain max. I believe you said you were regularly on about 30 mcg levo...some advocates might say that would barely do anything, and, if anything, might make you more hypo. More info about too low dosing on Stop the thyroid madness (STTM) website.
I do sympathise with the low income restrictions. You will read a lot about getting all your ducks getting all related thyroid and vit/min etc tested to follow a thorough process of investigation and elimition, such as other issues and or deficiencies that will help or hinder adequate absorption and healing. If your decision is to follow self medication with little other outlay...I cant afford all the ideals either..at least get your heart function tested as you are in for a degree of trial and error. Perhaps you could get a heart check based on recent palpitations that just came out of the blue...].-)
I find it interesting that if I was abusing myself in numerous other ways for the sake of addiction I would get help...over and over...but god help me for interfering with my own treatment.
good luck and feel free to ask away x
Thank you so much for your intelligent, comprehensive answers to my questions. I actually did have a couple of heart tests done about 5 years ago before I got my current doctor and was attending an out-patient, (walk-in) clinic. My heart was great. The doctor just ran the tests, including stress test, because I also have COPD and I was over 65. I understand what you are saying about the doses, and have decided to cut one Thyroid-S into quarters and take one tomorrow morning, and one in the mid or late afternoon. If this doesn't give me bad results, I will stay there for a week or two then go to a full tablet, half in morning and half in late afternoon. I also find I can take them sublingually, which puts the dynamite directly into the bloodstream without having to travel through the stomach acid etc. to the lower gut, so I think I'm getting a purer dose this way. I will be getting STTM book on Wednesday and can't wait to read it. Thank you for your interest. I appreciate it so much.
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