Hello, I was wondering how many of you with thyroidism have developed diabetes? I've had hypothyroidism for over ten years, and due to T4 not working at all, rapidly gained weight to the point of obesity and was too drained to exercise. I managed to lose most of the weight gain after starting on T3 but due to missed doses and irregular blood tests some of it crept back on and I had a scare when I was recently diagnosed as pre-diabetic. I immediately went on a crash diet and without any professional advice increased my T3 slightly, as at 4.34 TSH I am prone to piling on the pounds. I have managed to get my blood glucose to the upper end of normal, but an IGF was still within the pre-diabetes range. Does anyone know if I can reverse this condition? I bitterly regret not having regular thyroid blood tests, and as it affects my memory the missed doses have proved to be more damaging than I ever imagined. My care under the NHS has been pretty appalling, but I expect a lot of you have experienced worse.
Thyroidism and Diabetes link.: Hello, I was... - Thyroid UK
Thyroidism and Diabetes link.
There is currently an on-line Summit - so hope the link above works. The pancreas is part of the Endocrine system so connected to the thyroid. Adrenals are often involved too....
Hope it helps...
Thanks very much. The endocrine system is a very delicate balance I shall have a look later, cheers 
Oh, Alex, crash diets are not good for the thyroid. And it's probably a good job that you were too drained to exercise because that would have used up your T3, which would have made you more hypo and put on more weight.
When you are hypo, all the rules are reversed. Low calorie diets are more likely to make you fat than thin. You need the calories to convert T4 to T3. Not enough calories, no conversion. And if you then go and use up more of your calories exercising...
The weight you're putting on is very unlikely to be due to what you eat. It's due to your low metabolism, so diets and exercise aren't going to have much effect anyway. And if you do manage to lose some, you'll probably put it back on, and more, later on. Been there, done that.
What you need to lose weight is good levels of T3. You say your T3 is high. So, you should have lost a lot of that weight now. But still, please be careful not to lower your calories too much and not to over-exercise until you feel completely well.
I'm not sure - although I'm in no way an expert - that the pre-diabètes is due to the weight you put on. More likely to be due to low thyroid. There is a connection, but not sure what it is. And I do believe it can be reversed with diet, but to be honest, I Don't know anything about it, so can't advise. I'm sure someone will come along who can.
A TSH of 4.34 is obviously wrong. It should be below one when you're on thyroid hormone replacement. But Don't beat yourself up about irregular blood tests and missed doses. I doubt it made that much difference.
Thanks for the reply. The thing is I have no T4 to convert and I have to keep active to combat the glucose intolerance. With a choice of pandering to the thyroid's needs and taking action against a condition that will shorten my life by ten years it's really a no brainer.
My mother developed diabetes and died of a stroke due to poor treatment from her GP. Looking back I think she had a lot of hypothyroid symptoms prior to the diabetes diagnosis too.
I agree 4.34 is too high, I'm on the maximum dose of T3 though but a few extra grains help. When i get palpitations and the shakes I know I've overdone it haha.
But you still have to convert your T3 to T2 and your T2 to T1.
Keeping active does not necessarily mean strenuous exercise. Walking, maybe swimming, keep you active, but do not over-tax you and use up your T3.
Pandering to the thyroid's needs sounds a very strange thing to say given that you can't live at all without thyroid hormone. It's not pandering to the thyroid, it's keeping you alive, and your whole body well.
A few extra grains? Grains of what? NDT is measured in grains. T3 is measured in mcg. And who said you couldn't take more than 60? I take 75. And I have no idea what my levels are, because I dose on symptoms. Palpitations can be due to low levels of thyroid hormone as well as high levels. And shakes are usually due to low adrenals.
I have started on NDT about 6 weeks ago and built up to 3 grains. Do people add T3 (synthetic to this)? Otherwise if you just keep taking more grains arn't you getting the extra T4 as well? I have read several times that people add T3? Can anyone advize please.
People do add synthetic T3 to NDT, yes. But if you're on three grains and still not feeling good, maybe NDT isn't for you. It doesn't suit everyone. It didn't suit me. I couldn't take the T4. Not any T4 in any shape or form. I had to go onto T3 only. And from what Alex has said. I assumed she was on T3 only, too. But hey! What do I know!
No I feel ok greygoose on NDT better than on synthetic T4 and T3. Tried also just the T3 route and felt dreadful.
One question that I would like to add is the fact that my ultra scan results show a small thyroid and a couple of incidental nodules with no worrying or concerning features. I have doubted this for a long time over the 20 years, and does this mean therefore why I am tolerating the 3 grains on NDT because I needed higher dosages than I have ever taken on synthetic. Never got above 100-125 Levo?
I Don't know of any connection between tolerating high doses of NDT and thyroid nodules. Do you have Hashi's? That could be why you have a small thyroid. As for nodules, most people have some, and they are rarely troublesome. But I have to confess, I Don't really understand your question...
No my Endo is adament that I do not have Hashi's. He does not test any antibodies anymore because I had a reading of only 6. What I was trying to say was the fact that my thyroid is small it is therefore underfunctioning ie not as well as a normal sized thyroid, thus needing more T4 or T3?
Well, you need more T4 and T3. Your thyroid is past caring.
But, presumably, it has been underfunctioning for a long time, and that's why you were diagnosed hypo.
I would imagine that the fact that you can raise your dose of NDT higher than you could the synthetic T4 is because NDT suits you better. That is often the case.
Marmaris, my antibodies started off below 34, and within a year they crept up to over 600. You still need that tested. Mine shot up on thyroid treatment!
I was speaking figuratively about grains, I meant I nibble a bit more of a lio tablet not NDT. If the T3 hadn't worked I would be on that stuff like a shot. Had the adrenals checked and levels were within range, it's definitely a sign I've taken too much T3. Pandering was the wrong word, I have difficulty and confuse words since the thyroid packed up, prioritise was what I meant, but yes the whole endocrine system needs to be in balance. So does all the T3 get converted to T2 and T1, or does the body expel the excess? If the T3 is too high then it's better that I work it off through exercise isn't it?
Well, I would have said it's better not to have excess in the first place. How can you possibly know how much T3 you're working off? You could leave yourself very short.
It's my understanding, that the body uses the amount of T3 it needs, and then converts the rest to T2. The thing I Don't understand is that when there is an excess, the body continues to use it even after it's had enough. That's why you become hyper. I Don't know why the body doesn't know how to say stop! so to speak, enough is enough. But I've never found a decent explanation of all that.
But you do know that just being 'in range' isn't good enough, Don't you? If your adrenal tests showed bottom of the range, they could very well be below range, by now.
You are not on the 'maximum dose' if your TSH is 4+. An increase of T3 is required.
You can get palps and shakes but that doesn't always mean you are overdosed. I got that when underdosed. Your TSH is too high and should be 1 or lower and I think your GP is quite happy to keep your TSH 'in range' which isn't correct.
Weight gain is also due to the TSH being kept too high as well as being a clinical symptom of hypothyroidism causing higher cholesterol and GP gives statins, instead of a decent dose of thyroid hormones.
If cutting calories doesn`t result in weight loss, & eating more causes more weight to pile on, then how can a person with hypothyroidism lose weight?
My daughter and I are both hypothyroid and take extended release T3, which is imported from the USA.
We both have weight issues but recently we seem to be dealing with them through strength training. We are lifting weights under the guidance of a personal trainer and it is working. We have also gone gluten free and feel so much better.
This sounds like an excellent way to increase/improve your metabolism, JanePound. I take my hat off to you and your daughter. You're not only using up excess calories, but you are causing your body to naturally increase its metabolic rate by increasing muscle mass and increasing heart rate. You're also using up excess glucose that would otherwise just get stored. Gently does it, so that your adrenals continue to function effectively.
Well done!
HF, who said eating more calories causes weight-gain? I didn't see anybody mention that here. When you are hypo, it's rarely what you eat that makes you put on weight. Even most of my dozey doctors have agreed on that one! It's the low metabolism. Therefore, the answer is to raise your metabolism. And to do that, you need a decent level of FT3 - like up the top of the range. That's how I've managed to lose over 50 kilos.
Wow wonderful, I was slim and put on 4 stones, hate it.
Precisely. I've lost two stone in six months which is pretty good considering I have no working thyroid just by cutting out all processed sugar and exercising more. As they say everyone is different but sticking to a sedentary lifestyle just to conserve your thyroid hormones seems a pathway to an early death. The human body was designed to move, it needs to move to stay healthy.
You are right greygoose I saw something about this on the One show last week, when a man was diagnosed with type II Diabetes and he reduced his diet and adjusted it and got rid of it. It was also something to do with a fatty liver. They showed his liver on an ultra scan before and after, and the after one had used up all the fat in his liver due to his food changes. I am also wondering if this is what I have. I have gained 4 stone, eat a good diet but am always urinating. I am waiting to see a bladder Nurse (for the second time), and I shall be asking her about the link. Also I have noticed my Endo is always in the Diabetes clinic and is on his letter heads as Diabets and Endocrinology. I am sure that there is a link.
Hi marmaris, it is possible to cure type II diabetes, as this is often a lifestyle-induced condition. A friend of ours had diabetes and was on medication for a couple of years. He was convinced that this was wrong, changed his eating habits (cut out all sugar), got more exercise (went for a walk regularly every day) and within a year had cured himself. He's been well ever since.
As Alex2015 says, the human body is built to move to be healthy. Even if it hurts sometimes (this too can be a cure).
Best regards
Here's something about fatty liver. I haven't watched it myself because I Don't yet have sound on my PC (must do something about that!) but it reads well. Going to post it in a seperte post.
Both too high and too low thyroid levels will cause blood sugar problems. tiredthyroid.com/insulin-re...
I would never know my blood sugar was high unless I tested. That was the first sign, for me, that I was on too much T3, because my glucose went down after I lowered my NDT.
Thanks very much for that link, it was very informative. My blood glucose was fine until I started getting fat again, but this information is another avenue to explore. If only I could find a decent consultant.
You can reverse diabetes through diet, you need to make your system more alkaline by eating healthier foods, get rid of all refined foods, they have no nutrients, eat more vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, good quality meats and fish!
Yes I have lost two stone by cutting out foods with processed sugar and am now slowly reducing my carbohydrates, my HbA1C is now the upper end of normal but the glucose intolerance remains. Whether that will reduce remains to be seen, but I will have to maintain this diet for the rest of my life or it's a cert I'll develop diabetes. Thanks for the advice.
Wow that is actually contradictory then to what most of us are seaching for ie a T3 in the top range. The plot thickens.
Hmmm... I take that with a pinch of salt. My T3 has been high for years, and I've never had a problem with my blood sugar. We're all different, and whilst this might be true for some people , it probably isn't true for others. And other people deveolpe blood sugar problems with lower T3. The only way to find out, is to get your blood sugar tested.
Thanks HIFL. That article describes exactly what happened when my fT3 levels were 'excellent' in the mid 5s average. Highest measured was 5.8 (range up to 6.5)
It was also impossible to lose weight because it seemed that the insulin response was out of sync. My blood sugar would sky rocket to 13,15, 18 (!!!) and go into the low 3s four hours after eating. So the bounce would be enormous. Fasting blood glucose went from 4.5 to 5.8. This was outrageous and totally unhealthy. Never in my life (and I've been testing glucose since the late 1990s) has my blood glucose ever sky rocketed like that. It started as soon as I was put on 10 mcg T3 in January 2014. (One day as an experiment I took 25 mcg T3. I had no test strips but based on the visual effects, I'm sure the blood glucose dived into the 2s.)
I had no option but to juggle the T4/T3 dose ratios and now post prandial (I mean 30, 60, 90, 120 minutes after a meal that contains starchy carbs) blood glucose is below 7. If this means that fT3 is around 4.8 to 5.0 then so be it. Better than becoming diabetic. The appetite is also normalized and I am losing weight.
The U curve applies here. The information on T3 (Cytomel) contains a warning that blood glucose must be checked when patients are taking this medication. I don't think HgbA1c is going to indicate anything because the sky rocketing and diving is rapid. If someone were eating every 2 hours (i.e. 3 meals and 3 snacks per day) then I'm sure HgbA1c will go into diabetic range. If eating 2 or 3 meals per day, it may not be the best test for determining how T3 affects blood glucose. The only way to determine the effect is to do glucose curves the way I was doing. Even brief periods of time at high glucose levels are damaging to the body.
Gabkad, that's really interesting. My T3 has been all over the place to past 2 years,and this thread has got me worried. How have you been testing your blood sugar so regularly? Is it easy to do?
Hi Silver, yes, I am a bit anal about my blood glucose because my grandfather died of complications related to type 2 diabetes. (I just took my glucose because of your question: 2.5 hours after eating 2 eggs and 100 grams of cooked/cooled/lightly fried potato plus 1 cup of vegetable smoothie with salt and lemon juice added: blood glucose 4.4. Great. I've been doing some housework in the interim as well.)
I do blood glucose curves periodically on week-ends when I have time. Usually I'll test before I eat anything in the a.m., then 15, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120, 180 minutes after each meal of the day. I've been at this game since about 1985. At that time I basically figured out the glycemic effect of various foods and differences while I still had post pregnancy weight on and after losing it. Then I started up again in about 1996. This way I 'know' how I respond to various foods or mixtures thereof. When 50 grams of cooked potato spiked my glucose to 15? I knew it was the Cytomel because that's the only thing that changed.
The least painful part of the finger to get blood from is the outer part of the little finger and then the ring finger. These days the lancets are tiny and you need a very small droplet of blood for the test strip.
Anyone with Raynaud's or any circulatory issues in their hands must not take blood from their fingers. Get it from further up the arm or thigh. There's instructions for doing this.
I don't have any insurance so pay for my own test strips. Worth it for peace of mind. Right now I'm on a testing holiday pending weight loss and July endo appointment. I've got enough data for this year to know that there's nothing untoward going on. She's testing the hgbA1c. Useless because I knew that all last year the glucose would go bonkers if I didn't mix starchy carbs with vinegar. I had a 5 (yes five) hour glucose tolerance test done in 1999. Normal. Miserable thing to go through though.
Hi. I also have been told by the doctor that I have developed D2, but I argue with them that I don't. I believe there is a link to levothyroxine, I have told my doctor that because my T4 level is high, this is why I present D2, I am begging to be able to take T3 so I can reduce my levo, I really believe this would work. But the doctor are too stuburn to recognise the link.
Funny I am at present sitting by the making river in the middle of no where replying to this. Tec is so good these days huh. Yet doctor stay in the dark.
Take care....shon
Sorry to hear that mate, did you have the Impaired Glucose Function test, sometimes called the Glucose Intolerance Test? I'm currently in the grey area of pre-diabetes. Has your quack put you on meds for it? I cut out all processed sugar and started exercising and I do feel better, I just get blurred vision and tired in the evening. Synthetic thyroxine never worked for me but they kept me on it for two years, I could barely move, piled weight on, lost my short term memory and felt worse than before I started the course. The day after I started on T3 it was amazing, i was like the Duracell bunny haha. Ask to see an endo to see if he/she'll prescribe it.
Alex 2015, crash diets will make you fat.
Insulin regulates our blood sugars & controls storage of fat, amino acids, & carbohydrates to tissues, it regulates our livers synthesis of cholesterol, functions as a growth hormone and is greatly involved in appetite control.
Too much insulin makes us sleepy, bloated and even hungry again ( think of effects of Christmas dinner).
Crash diets, eating irregularly or high sugar foods causes insulin spikes which in turn can eventually cause high blood pressure and cholesterol, heart disease and obesity. The more you spike your insulin levels the higher your chance of developing full blown diabetes.
You can reverse your your condition now with regular meals and sensible eating.
Grey Goose recommends carbs for energy - just ensure you eat healthy low GI carbs and not horrid processed sugary ones. Protein will slow the rate of sugar absorption, leveling out those insulin spikes. If you want to eat grapes, have them with a peice of cheese. If you want to eat a little chocolate, have it with a few brazil nuts.
We eat protein with virtually every meal in our house. ie porridge for breakfast, tuna salad/sandwich for lunch, chicken casserole for dinner and snack on nuts, cheese, hard boiled egg, etc. Of course there is a place for that delicious home made cake or sugary stuff but in moderation and you will find the more stable your insulin levels are, the less you will crave sweet snacks.
Also ensure you eat good fats - olive oil, nut oils, avocado and always butter, never low fat margarine. These fats are needed to metabolize the carbs & proteins in a good way.
My husband has been insulin dependant for over 50 years. He is a picture of health (unlike me!) with non of the usual horrid conditions that may accompany long term diabetics such as eye or foot problems and obesity. Typically doctors just can't understand how he keeps himself so well but it is just down to the
excellent control over his body's use of the foods he chooses to eat.
Palpitations and shakes can be down to low blood sugar levels caused by insulin spikes caused by unhealthy eating.
Me? I Don't remember ever having recommended anything for energy! Except, perhaps Co Q10. Where did you get that from?
Hi Flower, thanks for your input, but I have lost two stone up to press and feel much better for it. I mean I say crash diet, but I probably halved my usual calorie intake and cut out all foods with processed sugar. I do love porridge, but it's poison to diabetics apparently. Most carbs turn to sugar in the system and it's recommended that diabetics have a high protein/low carb diet and sweet fruits such as grapes and bananas are a no-no but apparently apples are fine. Pleased to hear your hubby is doing well 50 years must be some record, good for him! No my shakes and palpitations are definitely caused by overdoing the liothyronine, the occasional blurred vision is defintely not.
Thank you alex2015 and well done on weight loss and stopping the processed sugary foods.
As quoted on m.webmd.boots.com
......Porridge can help control blood sugar and the charity Diabetes UK recommends it to see you through the morning.
Even though porridge is a carbohydrate, it's a very good carbohydrate. Because it's high in soluble fibre, it's slower to digest and it won't raise your blood sugar as much or as quickly. It's going to work better at maintaining a healthy blood sugar level over time......
My diabetic husband always eats porridge. Adding cinnamon balances sugar levels even further. Grapes and bananas are fine in moderation eaten with a little protein. (See above)
I was diagnosed as D2 and hypothyroid 30 months ago. After one year on 50mcg Levo and meteor in, was taken off meteor in and levo increased to 75mcg. Seems I do convert T4 to T3. Lost almost 2stone in first year. Porridge or muesli works for me as slow release GI.
I have been hypothyroid all my life on 7th September 2011, I had the blood test for diabetes. My Gp contacted me immeidately after they received my results and asked me to go and see her, the diagnosis was yes I had type 2 diabetes and it was inevitable due to my thyroid and factered that my late father was diabetic, my late mother was borderline and my late paternal grandmother was also diabetic. so to answer you question regarding this link I think there is a strong possibility yours is linked.
Hi I have both. You can help the diabetes with the correct diet. See the American diabetes society for diet, best one.A.W Thompson has done a good book too. I bought mine used from amazon.Usually you do go on to develop full blown diabetes but with the correct diet can take much longer.Diabetes is autoimmune and hormonal.Make sure you have a diabetic check for eyes annually and feet checked for nerve damage.
Jackie
I recently suspected I had diabetes. So I bought myself an accu-check mobile monitor because it plugs into my PC and prints records. My blood glucose was, as I suspected, too high
Went over to diabetes.co.uk/forum/. To find out how diabetics treat themselves. Seems the idea on there is to drop carbs and replace with fat. This is contrary to the nhs advNhs which says switch to whole grain carbs.
So I ditched potatoes, beans, fruit and wheat and replaced them with eggs, double cream and cheese.
Now just over a stone lighter. Mostly from round my middle, My blood glucose is in range 60% of the time. It was in range only 10% of the time when I started a couple of months ago.
My doc wants more tests and is unable, or scared, to make a diagnosis. He is still bumbling about after 6 weeks... And advised me to eat whole grain bread. :-). He doesn't think testing blood sugar myself is a good idea but I managed to shame him into writing a prescription for test cassettes. ( I have been buying my own.)
Pre diabetes and even type 2 are reversible according to the experience of people on the forums.... (You know, the ones who actually have the problems)
G. X
Hi G, you're right to question the continuation of eating carbs. Eating protein not only helps burn fat, but it also builds up the body's crucial resources to tackle DB II and many other disorders.
What the hell are these doctors doing to advise even wholegrain bread?!
I would stay off all carbs until you have the all clear.
Well done G.
I have both conditions too. Reversing your diabetes is pretty easy if you go on a very low carb diet. I reversed mine in 3 months. The only trouble was sticking to it. I am now just trying to eat more sensibly. Which is helping.
By that do you mean no bread pastas etc?
Or fruit. Only above ground veg. I was eating less than 20 grms a day.
Hi, that's amazing. After the scare I immediately cut out all the processed sugar foods I eat, but having trouble giving up bread. I'm annoyed with myself for not keeping an eye on the thyroid but I've never been one for snacking. My HbA1C is now in upper normal range but the IGF test is still in the pre-diabetic range after six months and I have some minor symptoms, like the thirst and blurred vision. Keep up the good work!
There is def a link as I am becoming pre-diabetic now. Currently reading Dr Neal Barnard's book Reversing Diabetes using diet. Just started reading so can't comment yet.
Hi Alex
There is a direct link between the two...here is the science: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... If you search, which you probably already have, your title, loads will come up.
I can't echo enough the advise give re dieting and the damage it can do to your insulin control, and what that can do to your body. I was hesitant to open this post as I have been worrying about mine and have already booked an app with my GP for diabetes test. But part of me is in denial. I arrived at the point where I was having to eat every twenty minutes but I have persevered with diet control and my symptoms eventually abated just before easter. Interestedly, well interesting to me, because I was feeling so stable blood sugar-wise I fell off the wagon over Easter and ate sugar and gluten, fast carb and processed....strictly forbidden on my usual menu. It's taken months for the numb spots on my feet to disappear and all of a sudden they have returned. Might be coincidence, might be B12, might be not enough mag with my D3, might be iron stores, might be a Hashi-endo-neuro-immune flare etc etc etc. So far, fingers crossed, I'm back on the wagon and the frequent hypoglycemic events have not returned. I think my sugar control is directly related to my thyroid hormone replacement and getting that under control. T3 is directly related to insulin spikes. hindawi.com/journals/jtr/20...
You don't say what sort of food you eat but, more-or-less repeating everyone else, good food over amount and regulate thyroid hormone. I am trying hold on my current dose regime so that my next blood test is a reasonably accurate reading of my T3 levels.
There is tons of blurb about reversing T2D with diet. A lot of those are still too sugary or fast carby. I took on a strict avoidance of sugary food including fruit which I feel is the only way to begin with. I do not exclude complex carbs from whole foods but do keep grains to a minimum. Complex carbs provide vital vits and mins. Some diet experts recommend a pure paleo diet for a couple of weeks to get things under control and then introduce some complex carb foods. It can take weeks to months to gain stability.
A keto diet is recommended by some as a sock-it-to-me approach to reverse Diabetes but no carbs, as Greygoose explained, is disaster to thyroid hormone function.
Scroll down to HPA axis chriskresser.com/is-a-low-c...
Where no carbs is concerned, if you have adrenal problems as well, then some carb might be necessary to keep your energy levels up, as you won't have the backup of your adrenals to increase your blood sugar when needed. BUT it's crucial to increase protein intake. If your adrenals are in good nick, then there shouldn't be the need to consume carbs. When i say carbs, i mean the high-sugar snacks that we often find ourselves uncontrollably craving. If in doubt, just consume healthy carbs in moderation.
When we crave carbs, it's usually because our bodies are craving something else. And this is usually nutrition of some sort, usually only gained from eating more protein, where he body has been starved of this before.
Kind regards
This interests me because I knew my thyroid wasn't working pre 1990 but the TSH always was the "lower end of normal" In 1990 I piled on 4 stones very quickly. I was always told that my inflammation was high and so was my white blood cell count, and it would be followed up but never was. Walking around at by then 16 stone undoubtedly put me at risk of diabetes, plus the arthritis I had started in my late 20's got much much worse. When my cholesterol suddenly went up I ask for another thyroid test. This was still " the lower end of normal" After wall to wall thrush my GP did a finger prick test to measure glucose and it was higher that it should have been. He put me on metformin, and then took me off again 2 years later. That was over 10 years ago, my latest blood glucose still showed I was pre diabetic.
I think you can help your blood glucose lower by considerably reducing carbohydrates. I always ate complex carbs, but it didn't protect me from being pre diabetic. Carbohydrates turn to sugar in your body so best to avoid them. Protein and fat reduces blood glucose and keeps you full for much longer. Also taking in fewer calories is supposed to help. And of course plenty of exercise which I know can be difficult for many of us.
I think another reason why I haven't been that successful treating my thyroid is high blood glucose and inflammation.
I've gained weight on T3 
Hi Helcaster, that's interesting. May I ask if you were eating sugar free? It would be really interesting to know if any one else has succeeded on paleo-ish diet or mixed wholefood and or no sugar diet.
Hi helbell, I do eat a little good quality chocolate on a Friday, it has lower sugar, but still sugar. I don't eat any other sugar and don't eat any processed food. If I have visitors I'll eat scones and cake I've made, but that's once every 3 months.
My most successful attempt to lose weight was upping fat and protein, and virtually no carbs. I had to stop as it was so constipating and my bottom bled I can't eat much fruit as it gives me bladder pain as I have interstitial cystitis. I can get away with pears and mango though.
Hi Helcaster, it sounds like you may be adrenally compromised. T3 probably won't make a difference, especially if it's not being utilised.
Inflammation, particularly continuous, will drain/fatigue the adrenals over time. It's important during this time to consume as much protein as possible to support them (ensuring your intake doesn't exceed your expenditure). High blood glucose is also an inflammation promoter. If you have inflammation, your cortisol levels will be increased to try to dampen this, this will increase your blood glucose levels, which in turn will add to the inflammation. A viscious circle that needs breaking. In this inflamed and stressed state, your thyroid will down-regulate, as it senses that your system is in stress mode with all the cortisol flowing around. Metabolism will halt or slow and as a result one's health starts to deteriorate.
Exercise will use up the excess glucose and relax the body, reducing the unseen stress that only your brain is sensing.
Kind regards
Hi Terricotta, I paid for an adrenal stress profile test two years ago and my morning results were terrible, my total was 15.3 (21-42)
I took all the usual supplements and have taken high doses of all thyroid meds at various combinations, nothing much has happened.
A year later I did another adrenal stress profile and the results were worse, for instance my waking cortisol is only 3, I'm low in DHEA too, the lab report said adrenal exhaustion. I got to the point 2 months ago that I thought I was going to collapse and die I felt so ill. I've been taking 20-30mg of hydrocortisone for around 6 weeks now. I thought maybe my thyroid meds should start working more effectively but I've just gotten fatter and fatter. My skin I've noticed is drier than ever. My only positive is that I've grown a few hairs in my armpits. They went completely bald just over a year ago, and my pubic hair started disappearing over 10 years ago. I have arthritis since my 20's and I did have several steroid injections into joints over a 6 year period. I know this can wreak havoc on your adrenals, I've also had a lot of trauma in my life and it's ongoing. I know why my adrenals are the way they are
The first time I knew about my inflammation is an extremely high ESR after a hospital infection after major surgery. It was last tested just over a year ago and my ESR is in the 40's and my CRP 10. Whatever I do I can't shake it off. The bladder disease I have interstitial cystitis is an inflammatory disease so I'm sure this is affecting my system too.
I really appreciate your reply, thanks.
Helcaster, I posted one of Dr. Bergman's videos about diabetes somewhere in this thread.
I know that amino acids are very important which is derived from protein. I also know that having low thyroid
means low acid and we may not be getting those all important amino acids from our protein. So much to learn.
Insulin regulates the direction of our amino acids so very important to keep it stabilized.
I followed Dr. Weil's health articles a few years ago and at that time he felt that trying to supplement with amino acids was not worthwhile since he felt they broke up during digestion. But now I don't know and have started taking a few. If we want to increase them, do you have any ideas?
I don't know what supplements to advise but why not just increase intake of meat, cheese, fish, nuts, eggs, milk, yogurt, whey protein, pea protein, hemp protei, chia seeds which all contain the important amino acids needed for a healthy body.
Hi Heloise, I've just weaned oofff cimetidine which I've been taking for 12 years now for interstitial cystitis. I figured the fact it gives you low stomach acid isn't helping my health at all. I'm very anaemic. One of my blood tests last year showed low protein, it was flagged. I think it's because I've had a hard time digesting any protein for many years now. Once the cimetidine has fully cleared I'm hoping this will improve.
I will take a look at the video, thank you.
Helcaster, I'm just wondering if it might help if you put out a separate post here re underlying thyroid issue and co ailments so folks can get a good picture of all main issues you describe. If you use face book and haven't joined any thyroid patient groups it might pay to do so. For example, FTPO (for thyroid patients only) thyroid topics group has a huge International cohort, basically heck of a lot more of us in the US ...the wider your net the greater your chances of finding similar combo of problems or underlying health issues impacting on your thyroid hormone status. They also haver satellite groups for other associated issues and self-care.
I'm not experienced enough to advise about thyroid treatment itself but off the top of my head and in-keeping what more knowledgeable others have said here, I'd try going totally sugar and gluten free, lessen stress and find ways to relax and restore ( yeah, I know...) I found Dr Wilson's adrenal fatigue book an excellent resource without resort to expensive treatments. I'd also be looking at fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue from the perspective of adrenal exhaustion and non optimal thyroid hormone levels in relation interstitial cystitis. I was dxd with FMS and I also have chronic painful urgency to urinate when I'm off balance/flaring/ under-replaced/what-the-hellever.... My personal experience is that thyroid optimal hormone replacement mitigates my symptoms but staying on the sweet spot is difficult. And laying off, my last remaining indulgence, coffee. I'd try an alkalizing diet. All basic approaches that have helped me during my journey through a multitude symptoms of FMS and Hypothyroidism. One of my hardest lessons was just a little bit of what I shouldn't have did not work. It might be OK for others. Keep looking and asking...couple more links:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
healinginterstitialcystitis...
Hi Helbell, I'm on here very regularly, I think I've been posting the same stuff for 3 years now. I have taken up suggestions, my last resort was trying to get some stomach acid back by weaning off cimetidine.
I think interstitial cystitis does have an autoimmune element, a lot of urologists have said this to me. I was formally diagnosed by a cystosclpy with biopsies in 2003. My diet is alkaline because I have to follow a very low acidic diet or I'm in terrible pain. My IC is pretty advanced I had my bladder stretched in 2006 to break up scar tissue. Even after 3 years of treatment, it still cracked an bled.
I'm quite well read up on adrenal fatigue, and I've had a few months now where I haven't fainted in the shower. I have had pooling of T3 which I'm hoping my absorption of T3 will now improve now my liver enzymes aren't being messed up by cimetidine, plus of course more stomach acid.
I stopped all Levo nearly two years ago, I then took NDT plus T3. Still worried about rT3 I decided to go alone with T3, it's been a disaster. Maybe I just need to watch and wait.
Thanks for trying to help, I do appreciate it.
You have had a rough time. I'm out of suggestions, I think you know more than I can offer but good luck with it all :)x
If you're in the UK and need a really great urologist, send me a pm. Xx
I'll bear it in mind if I hit that wall xx
Happy to pass on the info helbell. In the meantime check out the COB Foundation website, if you haven't already. There's info too about the alkaline diet to help your bladder. I only drank mineral water for over 10 years! Red bush tea is naturally no caffeine or acid, I'm fine with that. Also I've found recently I can tolerate a cup of coffee if I make it with 100% wholemilk. Only one a day though. This diet does really help. I take 75mg Hydroxyzine a day. It stops the increased mast cells in your bladder from producing swelling and pain. I take gabapentin for pain, it's helped me with frequency too. One important thing is not to get constipated, it hurts my bladder and urethra and makes urge and frequency much worse. Xx
I will. Thanks. And I like redbush :)x
Really you have gained weight on t3 . ? I haven't gained but not losing but keeping on a strict regime . ? Was sure would get weight loss on t3
Hi lola1956, I'm 2 stones heavier than this time last year In the 3 months or so I've just been on T3 I've gained 11/2 stones. I have tried everything to get T3 to work for me, it really was my last hope. I've been on doses up to 150 MCG, and gained. I take it every 4 hours at least 2 hours away from food. I've weaned off an acid lowering drug to improve my absorption. I started hydrocortisone around 6 weeks a go, but I was gaining like crazy before then. I've only experienced good weight loss on 3 grains of NDT with 150mcg of T3. I take other prescribed meds in the evening away from T3 by 4 hours. I take 25 MCG of T3 as I get into bed or i can't sleep. No rise in energy or a reduction of body pain dry skin etc etc. I had a 35.9 temperature today after taking 20mcg of HC and 25mcg T3. I eat the same food every day, porridge with water and whole milk, soup, evening meal light on carbs high on protein and at least 3 vegetables. My only vice is I eat a bit of chocolate on a Saturday, it's a quality one with lower sugar. I don't drink alcohol or eat any junk. All my meals are cooked with fresh ingredients. I've now run out of ideas to be honest.
Oh it's so hard . I too thought t3 would help lose the weight but even on an eating plan of under 900 calories I still can't shift it ..I'm vegetarian and I feel very depressed that my body won't let me lose weight no matter what ? I feel your pain
I hear you lola. I saw a health trainer a few years back. I kept a food diary for her. I'm pretty good with nutrition, so that wasn't a problem. She told me I wasn't consuming enough calories! Well of course something else was going on and I eventually got diagnosed hypo. I just thought the weight would start to shift
Sending you a big hug. Xx
Thanks ...big hugs to you too x
Have you had a recently had a full thyroid profile including RT3?
That would be your baseline and work from there. You sound very hypo (as well as the adrenal issues). Body pain, low temp and dry skin certainly indicate it. Wondering if you could be pooling or need a raise though I can see why you are reluctant. I don't know enough about tissue resistance. I think you should post this info again.
I've been keeping tabs on this website autoimmune-paleo.com/ There's a book and the site has lots of recipes. Also concerned about rising levels of glucose in my blood (and notice doctor tested the last time though didn't tell me this)
And this one thepaleomom.com/autoimmunit... Its pretty restrictive - and would mean cutting out virtually everything I eat - which is why I haven't done it yet!
I was recently diagnosed with diabetes, after gaining 45 lb over the last 5+ years sine my TT. I have a reverse T3 problem and intermittent high cortisol levels. :-(. I only just switched to NDT finally about 3 days before I got diagnosed with diabetes (which is really bad to the point of needing insulin). Wish I had switched years ago.
You have a lot of reading here I see but this man has shown great understanding in thyroid conditions with insight as to the poor treatment at large. Here is his advice about diabetes as well. He is talking about root causes and not just symptoms.
I have been hypothyroid for 15 years. I am not diabetic. My weight was an issue however i have been using cocnut oil and the wheat belly grain free diet and i have lost 32 lbs and my energy levels are good,i swim daily and eat low carb high fat diet
Well done ..wish I could ..I've tried everything
Have you tried a grain free diet? Highly recommend wheat belly
I remember many years ago being told that it tends to be if you have diabetes you may be more likely to develop thyroid disorders and not so much the other way about. But its all part of the endocrine system and as we know its all so personal and individual.
I am borderline type 2..it showed up when i was hyper from Hashimotos and as far as i know, is still there. My blood sugar stays high. In the old days, they used to treat diabetes with high doses of Aspirin. It is caused by inflammation. Also thyroid hormone conversion issues too. Diabetics have a high reverse t3.
I am now labelled as having polyglandular syndrome. I have a few autoimmune conditions, including Type 1 Diabetes and Hashimoto's. Yes, there is a definite link.
If I know someone has Type 2 Diabetes AND aN autoimmune thyroid condition, I always suggest they ask for a GAD antibodies test, to verify diabetes TYPE. I spent five years wrongly diagnosed as Type 2 and only through my insistence for antibody testing did I get the correct diagnosis. I was fobbed off 12 years later with depression, when again I asked for thyroid antibodies to be checked, which also came back seven times what they should be. It is common for people with autoimmune diseases to have more than one and you have to really listen to your own body, research and then be very assertive with doctors to get specific tests done that you want.
Doctors still often ASSUME if you are older, that f you get diabetes it must be Type 2. I was 45 on diagnosis and a had they done a GAD test straight off, could have had the proper treatment five years earlier.
One thing I was told 12 years ago was once you have any sort of diabetes, you cannot be cured of it. You might get your readings into normal levels but you still have it.
Now, I often read that it can be cured, so maybe things have changed. Mind you, this same diabetes nurse told me to eat lots of starchy carbs with every meal, something I soon learnt only spikedI my blood sugars!!!
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