What do people think of Dr David Clark (and his... - Thyroid UK

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What do people think of Dr David Clark (and his you tube videos)?

Neeta-K
Neeta-K

youtube.com/watch?v=ODIWvbj...

He also criticises the Barnes basal temperature test which I do and ThyroidUK recommend.

I watched the above video and felt down afterwards, as I just started T3 6 weeks ago and don't feel any better yet.

55 Replies
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Does his next video tell you what to do about it? I'm wondering if this is why I need such a stupidly high dose. I'm on 125mcg at the moment. Now I don't know whether I should reduce the dose again for a while. This is too confusing!

Please try not to feel too bad. You may just not have been on T3 long enough or perhaps there is something else going on too such as low iron.

I have lined up to watch all his videos so I will let people know what I think when I get through them. I would be interested in other people's views though.

Carolyn x

Heloise
Heloise in reply to PinkNinja

No, Carolyn, he doesn't give medical advice over the internet and we all know why that is. One good doctor I know did that but he already had his license taken away so he continued giving wonderful advice on his website.

This is merely advertising the fact that other areas of medicine can tackle Hashimoto and since we have all seen what endocrinologists do for us, I think we can agree, functional medicine can't be much worse, can they:)

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to Heloise

That's a shame. I love to know the answer but I can completely understand why he won't give medical advice.

Vrboska
Vrboska in reply to Heloise

What is "functional" medicine please?

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Vrboska

When I first posted Dr. Clark's videos I really felt this is the type of doctor that should be treating this condition. If there are 22 DIFFERENT causes that affect the thyroid, then obviously it's not a thyroid problem. He looks for causes.

Stress is a huge causative and being in a fight or flight state coming from high cortisol and again it's not the adrenals fault, it is reacting to stress as it is supposed to. And it will always do that until we do something about the stressor...whatever it may be.

That would be much deeper than just taking a hormone pill.

Vrboska
Vrboska in reply to Heloise

True. My thyroid collapsed soon after tragic death of my 5 year old son 11 years ago. Ever after I've been trying to find out all what it causes but in the end of the day it is stress; most likely PT stress that stays with us forever and cripple us for life. I've learnt from my experience that the way to manage my condition is stress free, ordinary day, balanced activity, food and drink and possibly good sleep. There is so much more to find out about thyroid causes and function both for science and all effected.

Thank you very much for your useful info.

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Vrboska

Oh my dear Vr, that is the worst stress and no wonder your body is overcome. I'm sure you can never get rid of the sadness but there is a lot of science in stress reduction. It is said that stress is stored in the hypothalamus and Dr. Herbert Benson met the challenge of techniques to remove it. It's what started the "ohhhhmmm" movement. They actually have cd's that use a binaural beat to center the brain and relieve stress. There are also light flashing glasses. It takes a certain amount of discipline and all the chemicals we face also cause stress. Your body will be free to heal if you can accomplish it. I'm sorry for your pain.

Vrboska
Vrboska in reply to Heloise

Thank you Heloise. I'll find out about it and try it out.

Sorry, but I was not impressed. It is all very well to give us the scare tactics but where are the answers? I hate this kind of self marketing. I watched one yesterday from him about serotonin and again, no answers. What is the point?

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to Hennerton

Yes Its frustrating that he gives no answers!

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Hennerton

Are you serious about scare tactics??? I thought it was rather scientific and I hope it's good science but what is frightening about that? Yes, you might be find out you have a chronic infection you've been living with for years but if functional medicine can ease your symptoms, I really don't understand what you are saying.

Hennerton
Hennerton in reply to Heloise

I am saying that he gives no scientific evidence or names studies that have been done to corroborate this and if he were genuinely making these videos to help us, he would provide answers or reading material that we could buy to help ourselves. Paul Robinson, for instance, has written a book and spends most of his time answering posts on a site he has set up. That is what I call help.

Hashoo
Hashoo in reply to Hennerton

Hiya, re the seritonin one, at the bottom, under the video he had comments...one of them asked where the answers were to which he replied that there was a link underneath the video....it's there...not sure what it said as I ran out of time....

My ferritin is 139 (after taking iron supplements). GP won't test my serum iron!

Yes please do watch Carolyn. I think he focuses on how people with low thyroid don't get better because the problem is auto-immune and by taking meds we are not correcting the real problem.

x

Hidden
Hidden

He's unlikely to provide any answers in those videos, I'm afraid. He wants you to sign up for a $250 consultation if he's going to give you those. He's a chiropractor by profession apparently. Perhaps he can "adjust" your thyroid symptoms away... :)

Sorry, I'm always a bit skeptical about this sort of thing and I'm feeling especially grumpy today. But if he really wanted to help, he wouldn't charge so much for the advice.

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Hidden

Hi grumpy, aw don't be grumpy, but you know what? Dr. Clark has two videos on dopomine and low serotonin which can exhibit rage and anger if deficient. I thought they were very interesting. youtube.com/watch?v=_nA3TuW... youtube.com/watch?v=xyW93jv...

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to Hidden

Dr Lowe was also a trained chiropractor but the training is more extensive than a doctor's in the USA at least.

excerpt:-

Health professionals with advanced clinical degrees, such as medical doctors, can meet the educational and clinical requirements to practice as a chiropractor in 2200 hours

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiro...

But I do agree with your comment about touting for consultations.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

In the USA Chiropractors are full medical Doctors... and have had the full training too - not like here. However that doesn't mean is isn't out to make a few bob! :-(

shaws
shawsAdministrator

I have just watched and it is only about Hashimoto's or undiagnosed hashi's. His video leaves you hanging in the air 'wondering' is he right.

For me personally, he is so wrong about T3.

Dr Lowe studied all things and covers many topics from hypometabolism, thyroid hormone resistance etc. etc. His whole site is free. His quote is perfectly sensible to us who have to struggle with the guidelines in the UK:-

Conventional endocrinologists have long held a peculiar belief: that patients' symptoms are of no value in deciding whether a patient has hypothyroidism, or in finding a patient's effective dose of thyroid hormone. The endocrinologists' reason is that the symptoms aren't specific to hypothyroidism. By this they mean that other disorders can also cause the symptoms. Their solution is to use laboratory thyroid test results in diagnosing and treating patients.

It's true that other disorders can cause some of the same symptoms. But it doesn't logically follow that symptoms are of no value in diagnosing or treating hypothyroidism. Any doctor competent at deductive differential diagnosis can usually distinguish the symptoms of hypothyroidism from those of other disorders. If the doctor can't, the patient should be permitted to do a trial of thyroid hormone therapy. A trial is warranted because it's harmless when done with reasonable precautions, and the trial may confirm the diagnosis by relieving the symptoms.

With few exceptions, lab thyroid test results are meaningless without the doctor considering the patient's symptoms.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

This is his biography:

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

Heloise
Heloise in reply to shaws

shaws, you realize there are 24 videos in the series, right? One video is not going to explain very much and he is directing these thoughts to those who are being treated with thyroid hormones and yet are not well. There are plenty of us but for those who have no symptoms, they probably would not find this worthwhile.

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to shaws

This video is just related to those who feel worse on T3. Many do feel better taking it. I suppose he is just making the point that it isn't the miracle cure for everyone.

One of the problems is that if you have an autoimmune thyroid disease, you are more likely to produce antibodies that attack the actual T3 itself. This is one situation in which taking T3 will not help. The only way is to deal with the autoimmune disease itself. Changes in lifestyle and diet can help with this but in some cases patients will need treatments such as LDN.

These videos are worth watching. T3 is definitely the answer for very many people, including me, but for some reason (maybe the reasons he states) some actually feel worse. I do think this is probably a minority though and I do rate Dr Lowe very highly. He had more insight into this disease than most other doctors!

I am finding these videos quite intriguing. He mentions blood sugar a lot because it affects levels of serotonin, dopamine, cortisol and so on. These can all cause TSH to drop thus causing lower levels of thyroid hormones and impaired conversion. I have definitely noticed that I feel much better when I am avoiding sugar and am eating healthy, regular meals so perhaps he has a point here. I'm sure it's no where near the whole story (and he doesn't claim it to be) but I do think it is something worth considering for those still not finding their health. What a complicated business this is!!! :D

Heloise
Heloise in reply to PinkNinja

Beautifully stated.....as usual!

Get what he is saying but am not getting any real answers - good for people who know nothing about thyroid illness but very frustrsting for people who have some of this knowledge already but need a few more definate answers.

Have watch about four now and get the distinct impression that he really doesn't like iodine.lol.

Moggie x

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Moggie

I don't think his purpose was to diagnose everyone watching his videos, Moggie. He does bring up some tests which might help those not doing well even with hormone supplementation and he definitely is pointing to someone in his area of functional medicine as possible assistance. He also pointed out some of the disregulation that occurs in cells due to the lack of T3 and the chemicals that can interfere or block it. He mentions enzymes necessary for the thyroid to function. Even thyroid experts don't have answers of why this or that occurs. Why does your hair fall out? Why does your cholesterol go up?

Another point is that many of us, if brave or stupid enough, are self medicating because there is no where to turn. I hope this isn't another blind alley,and I don't think everything he says is false and therefore felt it was worth posting.

Moggie
Moggie in reply to Heloise

I don't think what he was saying was false it just left you a bit frustrated that he didn't quite give you any answers, just possible problems.

Moggie x

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to Moggie

I know what you mean about the frustration but it does put the whole thing into perspective. I must admit I did want to contact him directly to ask some questions, lol.

Moggie
Moggie in reply to PinkNinja

I think deep pockets would be needed even for a 5 minute chat - while your chating how about asking him to join thyroiduk and more importantly its support group (US), you could even suggest waving his membership fee.lol.

I'd be your best friend if you pulled that one off.

Moggie x

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to Moggie

Now that would be a feat! :D I imagine it would cost a pretty penny to talk to him. I might try a comment on one of his videos though.

amazon.co.uk/Could-be-B12-E...

Neeta, not everyone is going to fail with T3 or Armour. Just those of us who might have these side issues might benefit in looking further. You may be one who does well with T3 and I hope you are. This was basically for those who say they have been on hormones for several years and yet feel many symptoms. If I were you, and you are feeling good, don't even bother with these videos. Be well.

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to Heloise

Hi Heloise. I've only been on T3 for 6 weeks (20mcg) and I'm feeling worse. More eyelashes are falling out, my weight is going up, IBS is bad. I hope it gets better once the dose is increased.

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to Neeta-K

Yes, it may well be that you are just not taking enough yet. Were you originally on T4? If so, you may have a reduced level of thyroid hormones while you are making the switch.

There could also be other things at play. Other reasons you may feel worse on T3 are lower than optimal levels of serum iron, ferritin, folate, vitamin B12 or vitamin D. All are very important for your body to use thyroid hormones. If one of these is not optimal (for example ferritin) you can feel worse on thyroid hormones. Low iron in particular can cause hair loss of any variety.

I hope you start to feel better soon.

Carolyn x

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to PinkNinja

Hi Carolyn. I was on T4 for 5 weeks but I came off it as it gave me really bad acne. I then started T3, which after a few weeks has given me acne too!

Anyway, my ferritin was 139ug/L (it was 35 last year but I took iron supplements and have increased it). My GP won't do a serum iron test. My folate was 24.0 ugl (2.00-19 is the range), so it's above range. My vitamin B12 was 484ng/L. I'm now taking B12 supplements as I read on here that it's better if it's around 700. My Vitamin D was 61.5nmol/L (>50) but again I'm now taking vitamin D3 supplements too as I read again on here it should be over 75.

My TPO was just positive at 63 (>60).

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to Neeta-K

I initially got rather spotty on introducing T3. I think it was just my skin actually getting some oils and moisture in it after being so dry for so long. It has settled down now though :)

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Neeta-K

Hi Neeta, I know with T4, it takes several weeks to see final results from the dosage you are on and how it may affect you but T3 has a half life of 12 to 24 HOURS so in a few days you can see if it is working. Why do you need to wait six weeks???? Who do you see for this?

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to Heloise

Hi Heloise. I see Dr S. He told me to take 10mcg for 3 weeks, then 20mcg for the next 3 weeks. Do you think I could go up quicker? Any suggestions would be great, as I'm going to try and talk to him tomorrow and ask if I can increase more quickly, as it'll take another 3 months to get to 60mcg!

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Neeta-K

Hmmm, well, as I said the half life of T3 is so short, I didn't understand the standstill almost. But now you say there is another raise at 3 weeks so that is not quite as bad.

Are you also reducing some T4 as you go along, that may be why the wait. The T4 takes two weeks at least to get out of your system. And that is if you stop cold turkey. This I could understand. So the question. Are you going down with T4 (levo) but still taking SOME? and what was the dose you had been taking BEFORE beginning T3 and then is this the first time you are taking T3 EVER? This is why Dr. S has to manage a seesaw so to speak and possibly a good reason to go a little slower. If none of the above is what you are doing, I would ask for speedier raises especially since you are still feeling badly. He might agree to the raise.

In my case, I couldn't raise my Armour without side effects. When I got my T3, I quit all Armour knowing some would stay in my system for a while and in the meantime I took a tiny dose of T3 but in a few days I was taking half of my 25 mcg. and in a few more days I took the whole 25 mcg. So I was actually EVEN with my Armour dose of T3 and never went through any kind of up or down feeling. I even went above that later but I decided to back down to 25 mcg and now and then I take a tiny bit more to see if I can do that and get away with it.

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to Heloise

Hi Heloise. I was taking T4 for 5 weeks and stopped it completely and went onto T3 only. I was instructed to take 25mcg of T4 for 1 week, then 50 mcg for 3 weeks and then 3 weeks on 75mcg. So I was on 75mcg for 1 week, didn't complete 3 weeks, as I got terrible acne. I thought being on T3 only won't give me acne as maybe it was the T4 fillers (I tried all 3 different brands during the 5 weeks but it didn't make a difference).

This is the first time I've ever taken T3.

I'm also taking Dianette (birth control pill) and I read that your thyroid medication has to be increased when taking any form of estrogen.

Heloise
Heloise in reply to Neeta-K

So you have only been treating a thyroid condition for two or three months. Since you never got to your optimum dosage (we are assuming, since you stopped taking T4) you have no idea how much T3 you are going to need. But Dr. S. decided 60 mcg might be that number? That's a fair amount but he must have reasons for that. I really don't understand the acne problem but I've read a few posts about it so others have had this problem. You might check on some past posts.

I would trust Dr. S on this because you never really stablized on T4 so he is being cautious with T3 since your T4 only precipitated about 20 mcg of T3 if you converted and you are taking that amount now. We don't know if you can handle more than that so I see why he wants to take it slowly. But since you are having such symptoms, he might let you to raise it quicker but with less of a dosage.

I still think Dr. Clark has some interesting points and I think #11, #18 and #19 might have something about birth control pills in them.

I hope you see results soon.

Neeta-K
Neeta-K in reply to Heloise

Thanks for your help.

Dr S hasn't said what the max dose would be.

Yes, I watched those Dr Clark videos. I hate being on Dianette. I have been on it since 1999! for irregular periods and acne (that's why I was surprised to see myself getting acne, as I don't get one spot while I'm taking Dianette). My GP won't give me an alternative medicine.

My hair loss nightmare started last year when I tried to come off Dianette. The doctors put me back on Dianette to make my hair loss better, it didn't work. At the same time of coming off Dianette and going back on my TSH went from 1.4 to 5.09 in a matter of months!

Dianette is used to treat PCOS. I have never been diagnosed with this, but it's been my GP giving me Dianette, and from my experience GPs rarely diagnose conditions, they just give drugs.

So I found this interesting;

youtube.com/watch?v=VI6bh5e...

shaws
shawsAdministrator in reply to Heloise

Although T3 you take this morning has a short half life, the effect of this dose in your cells is spread out between 1 and 3 days.

I think he mentions the temperature fluctuations in video #11

youtube.com/watch?v=U15Pcov...

not impressed at all, is he employed by the makers of synthroid ? His argument of T3 making you worse if you cant convert doesnt even sound logical to me

Heloise
Heloise in reply to susymac

Do you recall which video that was mentioned?

Heloise
Heloise in reply to susymac

If you ever find it, why don't you put something in the comments line. He seems to answer some of them and maybe he will explain it to you.

I have spoke to Dr Clarke, and sent him a email, I totally agree with his analasis, especially about thyroglobulin antibodies and fybromyalgia, he is amazing, there is another doctor who also is fantastic, in fact I would say better, he goes into lengthy detail and tells you how autoimmune effects all organs. I will post it later so that you can watch, it's very lengthy. X

PinkNinja
PinkNinja in reply to merissa

That is interesting. I may have to contact him after all. I felt that I needed to do that after watching a few of his videos.

I think people are forgetting that these videos are aimed at people who are on thyroid medication but are not feeling better. If you are feeling better there is no need to change. He even states that in one video.

Carolyn x

merissa
merissa in reply to PinkNinja

Hi carolyn,I contacted him in regards to thyroglobulin antibodies and my UN diagnosed hashimotos, I explained in my email I wasn't medicated and his responce said, no medication is going to fix hashimotos, my antibodies are making me sick, therefore I needed to control not cure the antibodies as my body will continue to attack itself, he also goes on to say fybromyalgia is a waste bin diagnoses and its probably the result of a I jury in the first instance, he was correct, I had a chest I jury, to date never been fully investigated, this led to me having pain in my spine. Hmmm I'm getting there slowly. Xxx

Lonnie Herman, doctor, find him on you tube. Tell me what you think? Amazing guy, I have researched Dr Clarke and Dr Herman and both are correct in terms of research. X

Heloise
Heloise in reply to merissa

Thank you, merissa. I think people are making snap judments and, of course, we all do that with limited information. Anything new is resisted and I think functional medicine is new to many people. I will look for the Dr. Herman video. Maybe I'll post it when I find it.

merissa
merissa in reply to Heloise

Agreed, I can not post the link in terms of Dr Herman. It's very difficult to get my head all round this, I personally believe the thyroid is one of many complaints, having said that autoimmune causes hypothyroid and hyperthyroid, hashimotos and graves d, confirmed by antibodies only. Good luck. X

Heloise
Heloise in reply to merissa

I will follow Dr. Herman on you tube. Another doctor who makes sense and overrides the dogma but will always be chastised by the powers that prevail. I like him.

youtube.com/watch?v=S6muZiM...

merissa
merissa in reply to Heloise

New you would, I am trying to note everything he says, glad you enjoyed. Good luck xx

helvon
helvon in reply to Heloise

what a wonderful skilled man

I think the problem is that when you take some hormone....T4, NDT, T3, iodine, etc. hoping it is going to correct whatever is wrong with you but in reality, it's all guess work and just an attempt to replace something our thyroid normally does.

These doctors try to find the cause and hopefully correct it so that the thyroid can function without outside interference. If it's due to an autoimmune attack, you find what is triggering it and stop it. It is not the gland that is doing the attacking. In the end they hope you will actually heal. I think there may be something to it, but not while we think like allopaths who need chemical cures for everything.

Our health has already been ruined by chemicals and more chemicals is not the answer. We have to remove toxic loads inflicted on us from all sorts of places.

Unfortunately, even though T3 has less demonstrable need for the body to make it usable as does T4, it still doesn't change what was wrong with our thyroid in the first place.

I see a far greater problem with thyroid function.

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