Another night woken at 3am by muscle aches and cramps in my legs, following a day of sugar and carb cravings... I have learnt over the past year that these are all signs that I'm under-medicated and my body is craving more T4. A quick check of my last thyroid symptoms list reminds me that this has been happening a lot over the past two weeks - not every night, but too many times to be ignored. So, I have taken my next T4 dose early and it's now 4.10 and the cramps have gone, as have the sugar cravings, so as soon as I've finished this update I'm going back to bed.
I'm pleased that I'm now able to identify symptoms and monitor my condition so much better than I could even a few months ago. Maybe I'll try night-time dosing as I've read this can help... or maybe I just need an extra 25mcg every other day. All trial and error... and sometimes a little success
I've been doing more walking and even a little running again and since the car had to have it's MOT on Friday, I had rather more walking than usual, to and from the garage. I love being active again, however it does seem to deplete my energy levels rather a lot.
I experienced the most amazing treat of nature on my way back from the garage after leaving the car in the early morning.
I was circled by a swift! I was walking home across the field after a riverside walk/run and a swift flew towards me. I stopped as it came within a few metres as I've never seen one close up before. It was truely beautiful and as the sun was out, the black body feathers shone deep purple in the sunlight. Even more amazing, the swift continued to swoop in circles around me - it kept flying around me always the same distance away - so I turned on the spot and watched it go around me several times! It then turned back on itself, did a full anti-clockwise circle, and then flew away, continuing on it's journey.
....lovely story - thank you. We have House Martins or are they Swifts ? - They are adorable to watch as they circle the pool doing the most amazing aerial displays and swooping for a precious drop of water. ( Our chlorine levels are VERY low ! ) Best of all is swimming in the early evening as they perform all around me - sometimes 6 at a time. In the morning they all line up on the electricity wire and chatter loudly for ages.
I only suggest they are House Martins as they are always trying to fly into our covered verandahs and have also come into the house - not difficult when all the doors and windows are open !
So glad you are feeling more energetic and also able to monitor your symptoms and understand them. Magnesium usually can help cramps but I expect you know about that...
It was really magical - I've never experienced anything like this before, I was mesmerised. I've looked up housemartins and this is the right shape, but my little bird had no white - but the behaviuor sounds more like your housemartins. It's as if they're playing with us!
I know cramps can be due to other issues, which I've not had checked - but my cramps always go with T4, so this is why I suspect it's down to undermedication.
I know my thyroid isn't stable and is getting worse so reckon I'm due my next increase.
HI Cramps are often below range sodium, it should be low n range, test is U`s and E`s ( kidney function), Yes you are right your thyroid treatment may be too low too, TSH T4 and importantly Free T3, Also make sure for aches and pains ( not usually the cramp) that your vit D is in range, if not a corrected calcium test if OK , treatment for D ( hormonal) retest after 3 months of both to check the levels.
Best wishes,
Jackie
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Hi Jackie have spoken with you before and you checked out my results for me, as I am learning more and more each day I was just wondering what the 'Corrected Calcium' meant exactly. I have had this done and it states Calcium and then Corrected calcium in my test results. All B12 etc seem ok. Although I still supplement. Cramps bad in arm and neck but still awaiting the MRI scan results for that, feeling it could be some fibro going on. Because my TSH was always supressed ).07 and has been below, I have tweaked my Levo from 150mcgs to 100mcgs and feeling a bit better. Heart pounding and hyper symptoms when on the higher dose. Awaiting appointment with Endo to discuss T3 and the myriad of symptoms I am still having, shortness of breath, weight gain (although I have lost 1/2 stone through a why weight programme). The main thing is the depression, which I have found very upsetting. I keep going as I have two sons at home with me 18 and 20 and I continue my everyday pursuits as a mother. Recently my partner had to move to a bungalow on health grounds, he is very supportive of me, but I am feeling low at times. Sorry to go on, just nice to talk about these things as after all we are all human beings at the end of the day.
Hi marmaris, There are normally 2 calcium tests given, the only one that matters is corrected calcium. Some hospitals,only do one, in that case it is always corrected calcium. B12 like iron/ferritin needs to be quite high in range.So long as kept in range, re tests calcium important, then even if D just in range, it is safe to treat with D, it does make the calcium go up normally, does a little on D a little, hence repeat tests. I was on a very high dose of D ( no calcium) for osteomalacia, severe deficiency but then suddenly my calcium shot up, often causes shakes, but important thing is to know as may be serious, if left over range. Then you have to reduce the D You probably told me, sorry not yet an elephant! What is your T4 and Free T3,( with ranges) tSH is still in range but if Low FT3 , a GP may be difficult ablout giving T4 and T3, Endo usually likes it. If T4 too high and FT3 too low for you, it could be the problem, or vit D, what is that\?Those symptoms all sound low FT3 too me, this should show on T4 and |Free T3, better to have T4 a little lower ( middle of range?) and FT3 near the top. Remember too T3 very potent, best to start on half the prescribed done for first week, and always split 12 hours apart. Retest after 6 weeks, all 3 thyroid tests.All these symptoms you describe are thyroid insufficiently treated.Do not get up, lots of research, only good sites though and fight to get well. You will , but not easy.
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The reason why I think it's thyroid is that it these aches and cramps come only when I'm hypo. They go when I have a T4 increase and TSH is lower again. After my last flare up, after a month, they went completely. That was several months ago and I know my thyroid is deteriorating.
Aches and cramps have returned in the past two weeks and only come at night - and go if I take my next dose early. This is why I think the pattern is linked to T4 and not to other issues.
My GP won't do the other tests. If the extra 25mcg doesn't work, I'll go back with your suggestions and insist. Last night I got to go back to bed and slept well and got up at 10.30. Last week I had to go into school at 7am - this was not a lot of fun on lack of sleep.
Hi I am sure you know your own body best, but if one of the other autoimmune, hormonal conditions is low, it could be giving the same symptoms, also could be why they vary.However, it is normal over time for thyroid levels to go down. If TSH very low, even if FT3 is, , I very much doubt if , then the GP would treat like this, Endo`s tend to as they do like T3, especially My TsH is immeasurable but I need treatment with armour ( cannot take Levo) and T3. When my thyroid was untreated for about 20 years, I was lucky to have an hours sleep, so I do understand, really hard to function then at any level. My GP here can no longer do FT3, essential especially for me.. and I believe for everyone I have them done on line, Blue Horizon, main site, quote TUK 10 for a discount. Finger prick or Venous blood, £60-£ 70 with discount. Very easy and a well known Lab, which is important for treatment. I need my FT3 near the top and it is vital not to go over range, so I pay often, Annoying but health so important. Sometimes you need less T4 even if on T3,and it balances the levels better. The GP should do the other tests, annually without any difficulty, even mine does!
I'm not actually autoimmune - or it's very unlikely as my antibodies are very low.
My thyroid levels are going down, have done since I was diagnosed and I suppose will continue to do so.
My GPs also likes to keep me with a high TSH - even over 5. As long as its in range, even the top end of the range, they're ok with this, so I'm always teetering about on the verge of becoming hypo again. At this level, I think the simple answer is, I'm undermedicated, or very close to the threshold, so it's not going to take much for symptoms to return. This explains why a dose of T4 always sorts it out.
Thank you for the info regarding home testing - will refer back to this in future!
Good to have plenty of magnesium in food, but supplementing it ,as an electrolyte with a tiny range must for safety be under a doctor with frequent repeat tests.
I find the cramps are odd, not the big muscles up the back of the leg necessarily, but up the shin, the toes, top of the foot. I do supplement with magnesium and Vit D on top of a good multivitamin, and have found this really helps. I also talk my 150 Levo in the evenings ( mainly because I am better at remembering to dose then!
Cramps has def been a symptom for me along with muscle pain.
I have sourced my supplements (which I take in the mornings) from 'natures best' online.
Hello ButterlyCallie it is nice to see someone describe one of the symptoms that I have and that is the top of the foot. Painful and little swellings at the ankles, cramps in arm and neck also.
Yes me too - you perfectly described the 'feelings/cramps' front of legs all around the ankle and front of foot most strange and uncomfortable. It's such a relief to know 'it's not in my head' or i'm making a fuss about nothing - it's really debilitating especially as it's nigh on impossible to sleep. Good health to us all - eventually x
It is debilitating and it wakes me up. It's not in my head or yours and while there may be different reasons why it happens, for me I'm positive it's because I'm on the threshold of becoming hypo again. It may be vitamins, but if it was this, I'd have it when well dosed too.
HiLiza - I have been suffering too with extreme fatigue and muscle aches (more like a build up of lactic acid creating that 'burn' feeling) I have up'd my t4 and have started to feel more alive! I have noticed that my fatigue comes on after eating and I think milk may be a culprit and possibly wheat so I'm going to avoid milk for a while and see if it helps.
I spoke to my nhs consultant (via email, I'm impressed with him answering his patients emails) and he suggested I try taking my thyroxine at night. I'm also going to try switching to Eltroxin rather than the generic and see if that helps.
I would love to feel better rather than just having good days and bad.
Hello helen642 my doctor recently gave me the Goldshields Eltroxin to try on my request taking Levothyroxine at the moment. I have not tried it because I heard that there were several dosage problems etc. Have you tried it? Its just that my Levo is the generic aswell (actavis), and I wondered if it could be better. Just waiting to see about NDT and T3 when I get to see Endo.
Thank you and my T4 last night did the trick. I think I'll try switching to night time dosing.
Like you, I've been looking at food intake. I stopped wheat a few weeks ago, then had a cake at school which gave me severe belly ache the next day... maybe belly sesitivity is also linked to a need for more T4? Well, it's not hurting to avoid wheat - I can live without cakes and bread, but I do want to get to the bottom of the cramps and insomnia!
Hi Helen - your question came back to me - it might be missed by the others and I know very little about this. Perhaps ask again on the 'reply to this' directly after someone else who knows this stuff has made a comment about magnesium, otherwise they may not get notification. x
your question came back to me - it might be missed by the others and I know very little about this. Perhaps ask again on the 'reply to this' directly after someone else who knows this stuff has made a comment about magnesium, otherwise they may not get notification. x
I get massive sugar/ carb cravings too! What's that all about?
in reply to
Hi Rachel
I asked this on here a while ago - if you look through my questions you'll see some good answers.
For me it's another sign of a need for more T4. In the past, my body learnt sugar/carb = fast energy, so hence the craving. Of course, that's not how my body works any more, but the quick-fix craving is still there!
Hi Normally hypoglaecema, not diabetes, need some carbs, something like a bisicuit every 2 hours, sugar a mistake as quickly used up in the body, apart from the health aspect.
Jackie
Marfit
Liza sahara ....I so loved your story it brought a tear to my eye ......
Only yesterday I was buying cake thinking this is not a good idea.....and this morning I ache!
Isn't it wonderful that amidst all our anguish in the search for better health that we can gain so much enjoyment from the natural world around us .Where would we be without the birds,wildlife,trees and flowers around us? Even the storm and downpour we had yesterday made the colours in my flower borders glow.God is in my garden and even my thyroid can't dampen my love of nature. X
in reply to
You are so right Marfit and these things remind me that things are actually ok. I count my blessings everyday - the fact that I could be in that field to experience the antics of that little bird was in itself a blessing...
No more cake! I too have learnt the hard way. Wheat is going to make my belly sore and I think it made my elbows ache next day. I also think I'm more sensitive to this when my T4 dose is too low.
Thanks for the nature up date very lovely we used to have swifts fly across our garden, Where have they gone?
I have had similar symptoms to you, I took Rod's advice and now take my tablet about 4 oclock in the morning so missing the arm and body aches when I awake. I do run out of energy earlier in the evening though. Never having had a sweet tooth I thought it strange that I bought 2 jars of jam recently and have been craving jam on toast. A visit to Docs could be on the cards. Sleep well.x
I've never seen swifts close up before. I've recently moved to my new place so I'm still discovering lots of different things about this area!
Reassured these odd symptoms are not just me! I'm going to try night dosing, though I suspect I just need a small increase.
I've definitely noticed cravings when I'm heading hypo way again. I also never usually bother with manufactured sweetstuff, fruit is usually enough, but when I'm hypo, I crave anything with sugar in it. If night-time dosing doesn't do the trick, I'll be going back to the GP as well!
xx
Marfit again...
Forgot to mention....the quinine in tonic water is said to be good for cramp.
Not sure that you should add anything to it though!!!
in reply to
Hi again - yes I'd read that about tonic water - I used to enjoy adding a little something to it... that's something else I'm better without these days! Oh thyroid - so much to answer for!
Magnesium.
Contrary to a lot of scaremongering, It;'s NOT at all easy to overdose, the kidneys tend to get rid of the excess very quickly (unless you have kidney problems of course) so overdose is extremely rare, the usual problem is getting enough in as it's not easy to absorb. If you supplement orally, you will probably have severe diarrhoea long before you get to overdose levels, which is precisely why people seek out other ways of getting levels up without getting to this point!
If in doubt (and cramps are most definitely a symptom of Hypomagnesia) then its simple, eat magnesium rich foods which will NOT cause overdose and test before supplementing. [drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Magnesi... ] especially so if you supplement other ways than orally, or over the recommended daily allowance (about 350/400mgs)
Oh, carb craving.... easy to blame on a condition, (unless you have low adrenal output which causes hypoglycaemic too) but even if you are Euthyroid or even HYPERthyroid, then carb craving is more likely to be because you eat a lot of carbs in the first place. Example, a friend of mine who is quite underweight and certainly not the obvious candidate for metabolic syndrome, but because he exists on carbs, he has all the ups and downs that brings and can't go without eating for long at all as a result, and even carries carbs around with him!
Even if not eating a low carb diet, reducing total carbs, and more specifically reducing the high glycaemic LOAD of carb containing meals produces a lot of benefits in keeping that craving away when those carbs have "run out" and stops the ups and downs of eating uncontrolled amounts of high glycaemic load carbs which gets even more noticeable as you get older
in reply to
No I do not eat a lot of carbs and never have. This may apply to you and your friend but it does not apply to me. Neither do I 'run out' or experience the ups and downs as I followed a nutrition plan for my adult life and this has kept my blood sugar, weight, everything stable... until I became hypo.
I studied sports science and nutrition and have danced and taught dance for the past 15 years, so I know quite a lot about nutrition, exercise, after effects and the links. As I'm a also a bit of a geek, I have monitored my body for many years and I know my body.
Being hypo has changed a lot of things but I'm not niavely blaming my condition. I'm noticing issues, when they come and when they go. The cramps, muscle pains and cravings come on at specific times, and are eased by specific actions. These are directly linked to my T4 status.
in reply to
Marfit,
It was reassuring to me reading of your background,as I myself have studied my fitness and diet over the years( badminton,keep fit and walking and of late my water workout because the water supports my extra weight I've gained) though I don't have your professional knowledge.
I have always cooked our food from fresh with lots of veg,salad and fresh fruit and until this last year had a good shape and flat stomach,also resisting the refined carbs as much as I could .However,a stressful year can change all that and I have to admit that is where I weaken and the comfort eating can so easily take over if I'm not careful.
I have an appointment with my GP in the morning,so am going to ask for some more blood testing to get a better,detailed picture of what my thyroid is doing and hopefully further increase my thyroxine.
My car broke down on the way to my last blood test so hope this week starts better!
It has been good communicating with you and I hope you have a good week too and some quality sleep along the way.We all need it. X
in reply to
I hear this a lot, but Its not just refined carbs, it's how many of them (and especially how many in one go - ie. the glycaemic LOAD). I became Insulin resistant and pre-diabetic on a diet of nothing BUT unrefined carbs! That was the problem, I ate little else BUT unrefined carbs, very little meat, very little fat, just "healthy carbs!!"
in reply to
Hi Marfit
Good luck for your GPs appointment tomorrow. I think it's important to fully explore what's going on with the thyroid as it seems to me that so much can be corrected by simply finding our optimal dose before looking elsewhere.
Have a good week too! x
in reply to
Marfit
Thanks for that Liza .I have a 9.00am app.
I will keep you posted X
in reply to
I had a very good visit to my GP and now have a further increase to 100mcgs thyroxine + TSH,T4 and B12 tests in 6 weeks time.I now feel as though I have my GP working with me to get things right.
It's a good start to the week for me and I hope your week goes well for you.X
in reply to
Hi Marfit
Great news and thank you so much for letting me know!
It's reassuring to know that doctors are listening. Perhaps there is a slow change towards working with us 'roidies. I really hope so.
Good luck with your new dose - I'm convinced so many issues would be resolved with better dosing.
My week has started well - I took my levo last night which kept the cramps to a distant dull ache - hardly noticeable -I had no carb cravings and slept soundly until 7.30! I'm going to keep up the 50/75 regime for a few weeks.
I'll be looking out for progress updates from you! xxx
in reply to
Thanks for replying and I'm glad you had a better start too- more sleep is such a relief and maybe your muscles relaxed !
I'm a little sad that you didn't know your mum.
My parents died 21 years ago within 5 weeks of each other and my mother had dementia,so was unaware my father had passed away.
One morning in a lucid moment she asked where he was? When told, she had a stroke within a fortnight and passed away ........a very sad time for me.
in reply to
You had such a sad time, this must have been so hard.
I find the loss never really goes, but I've learnt to live a different life, and a happy life, with the loss.
We were in a car crash when I was a small child. After this I went to live with my grandparents.
My grandfather was diabetic, which he controlled by diet only, and this was how I first became interested in how nutrition is linked to health and the management of conditions.
When I saw the swift I thought of my mother and what you wrote about it was so true, in the midst of difficulties, there are still so many blessings in life.
xxx
in reply to
Marfit
I can't express what I felt on reading of your tragedy as a small child.
Such an awful thing to happen to you and a terrible loss for both you and your grandparents.
You had much to overcome.Long may you enjoy what you do and let's hope those little birds stay around us for a long time.....they had such a long journey to get here.X
in reply to
thank you Marfit. X
in reply to
"Blame" wasn't a term I used in criticism, it was meant to point out that it isn't *necessarily* directly thyroid related there are other more usual causes, and it's easy to be chasing the wrong thing!
I you really don't eat a lot of carbs, and therefore the ups and downs it brings, then it is probably not that. with the proviso that "standard" diets suggested by nutritionists usually are VERY high carb, (say 50%) and not necessarily low GL carbs either.)
Became of this, if you want Insulin resistance, I would suggest "standard" mainstream nutritional advice is a pretty good way to get it, and also be short on hormones too with a lack of fat starving cholesterol levels for pregnenelone production!
Without more obvious causes, I would be wondering first about adrenal function (& that's often associated with thyroid issues, as found by many on here) and could be a cause of the carb cravings in itself.
in reply to
I'm aware that issues aren't necessarliy directly thyroid related however the EVIDENCE of my own observations of my symptoms suggests in my situation it is.
No I REALLY don't eat a lot of carbs!!! So it is definitely not that. Neither do I follow the 'standard' nutritionists diet you refer to (50%).
I was brought up in a family of diabetics and have been very interested in nutrition for a very long time, including an interest in the many different theories.
Since I am kept at the threshold of hypo, and my thyroid is slowly giving up, the OBVIOUS cause is that I am currently experiencing a dip into hypo status again and need more T4. This is also the most straightforward to treat.
Whenever I have an increase of T4, all of the symptoms go - surely with any other issues such as the ones you mention, this would not happen and I would still have the symptoms regardless of a T4 dose increase.
If you take a look at the Thyroid UK symptoms list, you will see that muscle cramps are listed, so I would suggest it is connected to thyroid issues. For me it follows a pattern as an early indicator that my thyroid status is, once again, becoming hypo. It may not be a symptom for you, however it is for me!
If my T4 increase doesn't work this time, then I'll start to wonder about adrenal function, so thank you for this suggestion, although having had a good look at some of these issues, I don't currently fit the profile typical for someone with adrenal issues.
No flies on you then or maybe it was a swift recovery lol magic moments like these are the way the brain connects your surroundings with distraction a moment above pain worry anguish and even deeper you can train through meditation to achieve such events every day thanks you for sharing this
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