Hi guys, have always had mild stomach issues since my mid twenties now 43. I think it originates from taking antibiotics for acne back in my 20s, for a long time. However this year it has become pretty horrible. Really bad bloating, gas in March which forced me to go to the Doctor. Had some of tests (NHS was appallingly clueless and inefficient BTW, they took stool samples and blood tests and messed up each twice before they got it right) , took PPIs for reflux (NHS one size fits all diagnosis). This made me worse so came off and pushed for endoscope, nothing sinister found thank god. Symptoms got better after I came off the PPIs, but still have very bad weeks, poor sleep, but sometimes feel like I'm getting somewhere. However flare ups bring me back down to earth and I feel exhausted with it all. Tried probiotics, low FODMAP, intolerance test (gave up yeast, gluten, lactose as my test had reactivity to this) but only marginal gains and minor tweaks to my diet sometimes make things much worse. Doc did mention depression could be a factor, but here is the thing. I am only depressed when I get the symptoms and would you be if you were constantly uncomfortable, with bad skin (for no reason) and not sleeping very well! The rest of the time I am super happy, as I am pain free for a while. NHS not equipped to offer any real help. Internet is inconsistent.
Wondering whether to ask for the low level antidepressants that some say can help, but feels wrong I want to attack the route cause.
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BenLek
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You must be exhausted going through all this. When it was suggested that ibs may be triggered by my mood, I was very skeptical. I was started on a low dose antidepressant and it’s helped a bit. I’m sleeping better because my mind isn’t racing. It has minimally helped ibs I’m sad to say.
Massive doses, long time use of antibiotics, anxiety, stress all can stir up IBS. Don't believe the nay sayers, it all happens. All my adult life I have been dealing with IBS alone. It makes little sense unless you experience it.
I don't touch highly refined, man adulterated foods, no soda/ soft drinks at all and no salt or sugar substitutes. Keep it natural and fresh whenever possible and don't touch spices.
When the stomach flora has been altered with large amounts of antibiotics just taking probiotics strengthens the yeast based enzymes left in the gut making the IBS worse. In this circumstances probiotics should be taken after a period of starvation and only with a course of prebiotics to feed the probiotics. The starvation is to weaken the yeast before hitting it with the pre and probiotics. Take the biotics for around 3 months and make sure you have a good live culture of probiotics, yogurt won't do it and look for a none refrigerated form of probiotic. Don't be thinking the probiotic is going to be a cure because it may not. I had both positive and negative results following this plan. If your problem does stem from the antibiotics then there is a cure for you. Fecal transfer, it is considered a last resort and you will find it difficult to get anyone willing to undertake the procedure for you, I didn't. Don't be tempted to go it alone as this could transfer other bugs you don't want.
I'm for the most part comfortable until a bout of anxiety knocks me back, then it is a matter of over coming the stress and moving forward again, constantly watching what I eat or drink. I try to never eat too much at one meal as this can overload the stomach and slow the digestion down. You could also try digestive enzymes in these times to aid the digestion, there are natural foods that can do this for you. Eventually your ability to be adventuresome with food will expand, slowly.
Hi I have read the books ref yeast and have always suspected candida. I have bad taste in my mouth in morning when I have my ibs symptoms plus my intolerance test came back with yeast high reactivity.... Tried dida , a popular natural anti fungal. Made me feel terrible and then probio7 . Again symptoms worse. Suspect I haven’t been strict enough with diet... and time I gave the protocol, but so hard as just worsen symptoms with no improvements in short term . now don’t eat bread , gluten ? No dairy and no yeast. Want to see some results for all this sacrifice! Any details on the exact protocol you used to get results would be appreciated. I will try anything need some hope...
If you suspect Candidas you will need to cut a lot of sugar out of your diet that feeds the bacteria in your gut. Have you been tested for holiico bacteria infection? Unfortunately your will need antibiotics for this. But you said you had stool tests? Were your tests clear? I’m not sure how you can get tested for IBS? It’s very annoying that doctors assume anything and everything is down to depression or anxiety so let’s give you a pill! Also give your diet at least 3 months.
If your IBS has originated from excesses of antibiotics don't take more antibiotics orally, I only take intravenously now by injection, bypassing the stomach. Usually means a hospital stay but at least the IBS doesn't get any worse.
First time I succeeded when I starved for 3 weeks, not being able to eat, made it really easy! Then I took a course of pre biotics and a good quality probiotic for three months. During that time I ate very little and lost a lot of weight and condition. Not by design, just the inability to eat. After it I was able to eat a little and was improving until I was given the choice of a massive dose of antibiotics or die. Still wonder if I would make that choice again.
Second time I tried I failed to make a difference. I think it was because I was eating more food than the first time. You really have to restrict the food to knock the yeast down.
I only happened on my diet in the last 2 years after having to go on a kidney friendly diet with CKD and no sugar for my diabetes. Generally feel a lot better, but always hungry. I have to limit the amount of food and fluid in the stomach or face a flair up.
My stomach is so screwed about I can no longer take medications with out some serious and rear side effects. Finally gone medication free despite the requirement. Shorter happier life sounds better to me than a longer more miserable one.
Sorry your feeling so bad, I wonder if Candida is an issue for you, you would be suprised how many symptoms that can cause. Dr Leon Chaitows (older book) on Candida is fantastic, I found it ticked so many boxes for me and after many years with really out of control Candida, I am now completey free - following his wonderful advice.
I would proceed with caution when it comes to antidpressants, I take one 10mg of Amitryline only once a week, so I do get some sleep, but never more that that, as the side effects get bad. I also had a friend who went down the antidepressant route and it made her so much worse, she ended up losing her job. With all the suffering and lack of sleep in itself would cause you to have low mood/depression - all perfectly normally, the bodies way of saying something is wrong.
Here is some information about IBS that I have shared with others in this group in case any of these tips are of interest to you:
IBS can be due to a number or combination of factors - these can be stress (including stress from early life experiences) which impacts the communication between the brain and the digestive system. There are lots of free webinars online at the moment regarding mindfulness meditation which might help. Plus you can ask to be referred for CBT or something similar to reduce anxiety - I would have thought online appointments are available. Exercise can play a major role in IBS in terms of reducing stress, helping your gut microbiome and regulating bowel movements.
There is also not absorbing certain types of carbohydrates called FODMAPs very well (as you are aware), the residue ending up in the colon and bacteria feeding off them causing symptoms. Ordinarily feeding gut bacteria is a really good thing - when you feed good gut bacteria these produce by-products that have great health effects in the gut and throughout the body. However, in some people with IBS bad bugs might have the upper hand over good - these bad bugs may cause symptoms such as excess gas, pain or disordered bowel movements. There is an interesting infographic on this here:
This is why it’s worth trying probiotics such as Alflorex (which has been scientifically studied for IBS) or Symprove to crowd out the bad bugs and make their numbers die down. Note that not all probiotics are the same and Alflorex worked best for me. If this fails, did you try the FODMAP elimination and reintroduction diet in full and was this under the guidance of a nutritionist via GP referral? If you download the Monash University FODMAP app it will tell you which foods contain FODMAPs and in what quantities. You need to eliminate all FODMAPs for 2 weeks and then introduce each type of FODMAP one at a time starting in small quantities, increasing over a 3 day period and wait up to 4 days for symptoms. If you don't eliminate all FODMAPs in the first 2 weeks, there may be some still upsetting you. I go much slower than this - only introducing a small amount (1/4 to 1/3 of a normal portion size) of the same food for 3 days and then increase if tolerable or no symptoms and cut back to the previous amount if symptoms for longer and then try to increment again . I've read your microbiome can adapt to handling a new food if introduced very slowly and your bad bugs are under control with a good probiotic. Ideally you want to eat as many FODMAPs as you can since they are good for your health. Many people with IBS don't have diverse gut bacteria - it has been found that people who lack a diverse microbiome are more prone to diseases in general. In the long run, if you can get your symptoms under control, the ideal situation is to have a very varied diet - lots of different coloured fruits and vegetables, a variety of protein and carbohydrate sources including cereal fibres. This may seem a long way off, but with the right treatment all of this is possible. Last year all I could consume to control my IBS was white rice, protein and limited low fodmap veg. Using the approach above (particularly introducing Alflorex) I am now able to consume far more foods - more than I've ever dreamed of including wholewheat bread which is unheard of for me.
Note that food intolerance testing is not scientifically proven, which is probably why you didn't see much in the way of effects - people can hit on intolerances by chance though:
It is where the brain interprets the normal activity of the bowel as pain - this is due to a wearing down of neurons in pain control centres of the brain which can be caused by PTSD, neglect or abuse in childhood, extreme stressful events etc. The first line treatment is nerve pain agents such as low dose amitriptyline. There is a theory that being on something like amitriptyline for 6-12 months can help the pain control centre neurons to regenerate. Note that amitriptyline can cause constipation, but this can be helpful in people who are diarrhea dominant. Unfortunately I couldn't tolerate these. Linaclotide (for IBS-C only) & Alflorex have helped me with this intestinal pain.
You may also find assistance with anti-spasmodic medication such as mebeverine (Colofac) or enteric coated peppermint.
I feel for you big time. Have you tried massaging your stomach every night before you go to sleep and in the morning when you wake up. I find this really helpful. You can learn how to do it on you tube. Good luck.
Thanks for advice have tried most things suggested... can’t believe the NHS approach to something that effects so many people. The equivalent of pin the tale on the donkey. I can’t seem to pin point diet, probiotics cause more gas and pain, tried vegan , Huel, intermittent fasting, but too much fibre and high FODMAP causes flare ups. Cut out yeast bread alcohol diary FODMAP but just makes me miserable. I clearly can’t figure it out and it is making me depressed because I know what good looks like at this ain’t it.
It is clearly a micobiombe imbalance caused by antibiotics, but nothing I do seems to make much of a difference.
Will try 2 weeks of Candida type diet (yay) and the Alflorex... after that I give up.
Have you got a definite diagnosis ? Following suggestions that have worked for others is not always a sensible idea. Even if you have to pay get a recommendation and see a Gastroenterologist . Get all the scans and tests available. Get a Dietician. They are very knowledgeable about the gut and it’s problems.
when the endoscope stomach test result a was fed back ok the response was it is ibs..... or intolerances , that is the NHS for you. Is there a test for IBS? It is just a catch all whoch means we don’t know. They don’t really care unless you have obvious visual inflammation as they want to rule out h pylori. They discourage intolerance tests, don’t believe SIBO exists and want to move you off to a dietitian.
Have you been tested for SIBO (small intestine backterial overgrowth)? I have similar problems and paid for the test myself as the NHS wouldn't do it. I've not found a way to prevent the bloating yet but some people find the Fast Tract diet or Specific Carbohydrate diet works. I'm just trying digestive enzymes which I think have helped slightly.
I hope you can find somehting that works for you soon.
I thought I was could be SIBO but the NHS do not treat it. Instead it is just diagnosed as IBS to be managed by eating bean sprouts for the rest of your life. Where did you get the test ? What is the test, did you have antibiotics to treat? Sugar is especially bad for me and caused the last flare up I think.my maintypmtom has been upper stomach gas. It feels like knots and it can cause IBS C mainly but mainly upper stomach has which is release by burping! That why they thought acid reflux.
Mine is in the upper stomach too but its only when it starts gurling and moving further down do I feel better. I had an ultasound once and the nurse had difficulty seeing my left kidney because of gas and that was when I was feeling ok! I don't know what it would be like when I am at my worst!
PPI's just made me feel worse. I tried apple cider vinegar as I read that low stomach acid can be a problem but that didn't make any difference either
I got my SIBO test through Smart Nutrition. It is a breath test and you do have to follow the strict diet before taking it. I thought it maybe SIBO and wanted to get a diagnosis so I had more information as to what I could do to try to treat it. I've not had antibiotics but wanted to try altering my diet first. I've tried various ones but not really got anywhere. However my symptoms have not been as frequent since I started taking digestive enzymes a couple of weeks ago. I do have times when I am a bit better between flare ups so its hard to say at the moment whether these are helping so I'm going to continue with them for now. I was going to go back to my GP after the test but then COVID happened so I thought I'd wait until they were doing more routine appointments.
PPIs was a dumb ass diagnosis for me... give them drugs for ulcer, acid reflux without any tests! It made me worse too and even lost energy to the point I was really worried... when I came off them I felt better. Sugar seems to feed whatever this is..... I am convinced it is Candida, as it feels like the gas is be produced by the bacteria in my tummy and I just need the right ones and need to reboot my microbiome, but conventional medicine isn’t there yet. NHS doesnt support SIBO and discourages intolerance testing and SIBO breath tests as quackery. Intolerance is a symptom,... They’d rather label everything as IBS. I think they should keep quiet about alternative hostical approaches as they offer no alternative.... sorry if coming across as bitter but there are so many people in pain being told they have to live with it and being given drugs they don’t need.
I had sibo after taking acidophilus probiotics worst thing ever ! Doctor gave me 2weeks worth antibiotics cured it ! But then suffered from chronic constipation after ! X
You'll need to take a combination of pre and probiotics, otherwise the probiotics will just die in your gut. Low dose Citalopram will help hugely with the scale of flare ups since low gut serotonin levels are found with people that suffer from IBS. Milk gives me gut ache as does wheat in bread, try to reduce caffeine intake, especially coffee; reduce sugar intake to as low as possible because this upsets gut flora. I hope this helps you a little.
Hi there the antibiotics definitely killed off all the good bacteria in your gut ,as I have had the same and it takes a very long time to rebuild .the antidepressants may help as there are seratonin receptors in the gut .so they may be a deficiency there .i found taking an antidepressant did help me .take care x also the probiotic market is hit and miss get a good quality one do some research .x
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