So my daughter who has stage 4 breast cancer is doing ok. After 6 tchp and now just h and p since march every three weeks all is stable. Tumor marker 0.5. Liver lesions two noted but tiny and maybe 5 others so tiny they are not visible per doc. Breast mass gone maybe some residual cancer but could just be fibrous. Lymph nodes normal now. But mentally she is a mess: she is 40 with a great husband and a 1 and 4 year old. This is a terrible disease but she threatens to leave the family and cannot deal with anything. Has a psychologist and a psychiatrist and a couples counselor and four year old has a counselor. Other than couples one she diverts the others I am sure from the real truth: that she is mentally failing and an emotional wreck. Meds must be wrong too. I think she needs inpatient help. Any thoughts?
Cancer and psych issues: So my daughter... - SHARE Metastatic ...
Cancer and psych issues
Oh, my dear!!! I am so, so sorry for what you all are going through....I wish I could provide some insight or guidance but all I can do is tell you my heart is going out to you, your daughter, and the rest of the family...
Please be well and take care...
Sending love,
Lynn
One thought for you: Is it possible that you can speak with her oncologist? Perhaps there are rare instances where certain treatments/meds trigger psychiatric issues (I just googled, did not find much, but did find a little about this). Also, some cancer centers have psychiatrists who specialize in cancer patients...that might be a helpful resource?
Again, wishing you the best with it...I'll be thinking of you all..
I thought of talking to him as we have permission but am afraid he will tell her. And yes UC in denver has psychological help but she went twice and prefers therapy from her own she has had for years. But cancer therapists would be better and we have told her so. Thank you! All good advice!
My oncologist wanted me to start palliative care bc I was experiencing severe pain. Part of that includes seeing a psychiatrist in that department, plus a nutritionist and the only one I really wanted to see, the pain specialist. The psychiatrist was a male. I am not one who believes in that FOR ME (I know it has worked wonders for many other people.) So I was kind of annoyed and said to myself I am going to make it so that this is my first and last appointment.
He asked me several times "if I felt like hurting myself sometimes." I answered No. He must have then slipped that question in another three times and then I got fed up. I said what is it you want? You want me to say Yes, I want to hurt myself. I had I have stage iv cancer, why would I waste the time hurting myself when the cancer is doing it for me.
He then said I guess these sessions are not going to work for you. I said no, I was only forced to come. I then told my pain specialist about what he said and my reply and she laughed aloud. She thought it was hysterical. I don't know. I assume he knew I had stage iv...maybe not. Either way I was asked and answered that question four times during our session.
Maybe her onco would not feel comfortable discussing your daughter even with you because of medical confidentiality. If your daughter feels more comfortable choosing her own (as I would), maybe she just needs more sessions. I am sure it takes a while to feel comfortable with a therapist and start revealing the truth about how she feels and why.
I find that some of the medications affect my depression. I had my lowest time when things were going fairly well. I just became so overwhelmed with everything and wanted to go hide alone. I spoke to my oncologist’s nurse and she has set me up with a psychologist from the cancer centre. Personally, I don’t think a normal psychologist can understand what cancer does to a person. Especially when they already have been fighting depression.
Would your daughter go to one with you? Not ambushing her but going together so that you can receive support which would also give her support. She may open up with the two of you together. If you are seriously concerned then speak to her oncologist and explain how bad things are. I can attest to the fact that a person that is struggling can lie and say things are ok while they are falling apart inside. It’s better your daughter is mad at you for a bit than the other possibilities. 😞
Thank you! Will work on that. She was much better after her breakdown the other night. And I agree that a psychologist who deals with cancer would be better; she is stubborn snd had one before and does not want to give her up. I am glad she sees someone.
That is interesting that she was better after she broke down. She is young with young children. She may need to grieve more than most of us. It is tough to find out that life as we have known it is over. We eventually adjust to our new normal and then we have changes and different normals. Maybe hugging her and crying with her - not just you - her husband, friends, siblings even strangers. Helping her get her pain and fear out in the open may help.
I had this friend named Toni who had terminal cancer. She called me one Saturday morning and asked if I could come visit her. She gave me handwritten notes of people she wanted me to call when the time came. There were tears but then among the tears came the childhood stories and her fun memories and our laughter. It has been a while since I have thought about Toni. Thank you for reminding me. I wish you and your daughter the best and send lots of hugs. Blessings Hannah
Thank you! What you wrote is lovely. She does give me obituary guidance and more. It is rough because she was diagnosed when the baby was 5 months old. Lots of mourning while giving up nursing and feeling too ill from some chemos to even hold her. Then Covid. Her friends are smart and just listen and commiserate. I find it harder to not insert “but your numbers are good. You could live years”. She has always been a glass half empty person so expecting her to read good stories vs sad stories is stupid of me! It has been almost 10 months since diagnosis and she is doing well post chemo and just with targeted drugs but there is no new normal cause of covid purgatory.
Thank you for the hugs and back at you!!!
First, maybe the mother could mention it to her onco but I doubt the onco will discuss anything with her mother. The woman is an adult and doctors are supposed to promise medical confidentiality. Maybe a support forum group, maybe online first and then one in person where she can meet others like herself with families and such. Really, only women in our position can understand.
At my cancer center (besides have a psychiatrist), in the beginning they wanted me to see a therapist they had. They introduced me to him before my first meeting. Again, I did not want to go but I promised the social worker I would give it a try. First, he was young enough to be my son and handsome (LOL). He gave me his card. When I got home, I googled him on facebook and believe it or not (he did not reach that level of maturity, yet I guess), his facebook page was NOT private and he had photos of him drinking beer out of a keg, shirtless photos and posing and I'm thinking what professional would put these photos on facebook and NOT make it private. I went to our first session and told him I only came bc the social worker asked me and I did not understand how they thought a male could understand anything about breast cancer. Session was then ended.
Sounds wise! The one she saw twice at the cancer center she liked but decided her usual ones were better... likely cause she can bamboozle them
I would definitely say reach out to her oncologist. While the oncologist cannot discuss any information without her consent, it is important the oncologist know what is going on so that she can be aware to monitor for his or herself and consider any meds changes or suggest to her to seek counseling.
Actually her oncologist has permission to talk with me. I read his last visit notes and he wrote : very anxious and nervous and sees psychotherapist. I am guessing he saw through her but yes I will call if she continues on this crazy path. Thank you!
I agree your daughter and you should speak to her onc. I wish you both the best. Mbc is overwhelming! We cant do it without help!
Taking estrogen reducing drugs to keep cancer at bay are terrible to the system. Worth taking but hard on the system. A person may be thrown into a second menopause only it is much worse than the first menopause. Depression is common as estrogen is reduced and a person is depleted sensually and physically. At age 40 one can go through an intense first menopause far exceeding a regular menopause in intensity..
For many, Having good markers does not eliminate the reality of the present discomfort and loss of not only libido but also the zest for life and Beauty as a whole. To say that one could live for years with this estrogen depleted state is to say, can be interpreted as one can have a longer time to feel bad, or lack feelings of hope.
Support Groups for younger women facing the chronic cancer condition are often helpful.
Here is a place to begin in finding support in addition to regular therapy:
sharecancersupport.org/cale...
Also, to better understand what your daughter is going through in taking the medication she is taking.. you can find support for women taking estrogen inhibitors (if that is what she is taking)
I have found the ansastrozole posts here, really help. Your daughter is pre-menopausal so she will probably be taking some other estrogen inhibitor which this site can also assist with..
Your daughter is fortunate to have a mother as you, wanting to research and assist herself in comprehending so she can relate and help her daughter.
Thank you for being a positive motherhood example.
My daughter’s cancer is her2 positive no hormone involved. Getting her period etc without issue! She is on herceptin and perjeta not anything for hormones interestingly because she us HR negative. But yes support for younger women would be good. She reads metavivor a lot. She is seeing a doc who works with hers but specializes in women 30-46. I think that will really help!
Thanks for the quick update. I do not know how those medications affect a person. Am wondering if searching the HealthUnlocked forums if more information can help with those.. Hope she can find a young woman's group.. and you a caregivers group too.
I am even more aware with your post how fortunate your daughter is to have you... Thanks again for you kind example and kind response to me.
Thank you! Not sure how great we are! We did move across the country to help her out and are living in an airbnb across the street from her since october! But yes we do a wonderful support group at univ colorado for caregivers and I talk to a private social worker there too. I just think you guys are amazing and wonderful and helpful so I wrote on here on here too! Thank you for your help. I am checking that share site. I hope you are doing well too. This disease is like none other; in our families we have had heart disease but never ever cancer.
Jp I also have a wonderful support group but I also stop in on forums too.. This is the group I belong to in MA. US
Our groups are on line or zoom now. Some of our events are for both caregivers and cancer clients both. Others are separate. I am in my 70s now and have had cancer twice, but when I was 23 years I was a caregiver for my Dad during the last 9 months of his life so I have a connection all around and an appreciation and an instinct in recognizing good caretaking. My husband is a good caretaker for me now.. I am so glad that you are getting the support caretakers require.. Thank you again..
You are in an awful position my heart goes out to you.
My husband had had mental health issues for most of our life together so I know how hard it is to watch someone going through this and the powerlessness you feel when you do desperately want to help and sort things.
I agree that a specialist councillor with experience of cancer patients would be a better option but it has to be her decision. Finding a good councillor can be harder than finding a good husband. If she has a counsellor that means she is talking to someone, so she has a means of release and the fact that she continues to see them means she must feel she is getting some benefit.
It sounds as though she has a support system around her with friends and family - she is lucky to have that. With my husband I saw many of his friends disappearing as they couldn’t understand or cope with what he was going through.
The hardest thing I had to learn was that I couldn’t do anything to solve his problems. It had to come from him and he wasn’t necessarily in a state where he could see what the problem was, let alone solve it. I then realised that I could offer support and advice but I couldn’t make him take it, and for my own mental health I had to take a step back which let him take on the responsibility for his own mental health and that actually improved things but it wasn’t easy.
Your daughter is lucky to have you as a mother. Look at the positive things she is doing and support those even if you aren’t sure they are right for her. Listen to her but don’t try to solve the problems even if the solution is obvious.
I would love to be able to sit and talk about the things that scare me with my mother but I can’t because she blames herself for my cancer. I feel that I have to protect her and that is hard. Sitting and just listening is a huge thing you can do for your daughter.
are you in canada? You spell councillor like how I did in montreal growing up. You should not have to protect your mom; I feel like I would gladly take the cancer for my kid. It is creepy to be the healthy older person but the cancer is not anymore my fault than it is your mom’s. Your mom needs counseling like I do! I like your advice about focus on the positive. Also her husband is pretty awesome and he and I di have a good relationship. He needs to know that I am here for him too for sure. Matter of fact when I defended him while she was being nasty to him, she wouldn’t talk to me for days...
I will for sure try to listen more and just nod when she says stuff... wish me luck keeping my mouth shut.🤞🤞
😊 no sorry, I’m in the U.K. and I work in local government so out of habit wrote councillor instead of counsellor!
As you can probably tell it takes every ounce of my strength not to try to solve my husband’s problems and it took me 25 years to figure out that I couldn’t. And a further 10 To learn how to bite my tongue.
My mother would take my cancer in an instant if she could, and I love her for it. She is one of 10 siblings and is the only one not to have been diagnosed with this disease. My mother is one of the strongest women I have ever known but she can’t cope with this. There is no way I could talk to her about my obituary. But I am good at coping so I’ll do it for both of us, but it would be so good just to be able to talk freely.
Your daughter has got so much going for her and sometimes with this disease you do just need to go with the overwhelming emotions for awhile but you can’t let it keep you there. And everyone has a different way of realising that at different times. It’s early days for your daughter yet. It’s not fair at what should be the happiest time of her life she has to deal with this! No wonder she is angry.
Please look after yourself and make sure you get the support you need.
Thank you. Anytime you need a mom just let me know. You work in gov?! How cool! 10 sibs with cancer?! Omg!! That is awful but she did not cause yours. I remember when my husband had his second heart attack he asked the doc why; he explained how well he had been eating etc. Her comeback line was that at birth he should have chosen parents more carefully.
You look after yourself too! You sound like quite a wonderful woman; your husband has no idea how lucky he is.
I keep telling him that 😁
Tell him you have a new buddy in denver who says so too!
I’ll definitely tell him that 😁
I worked as a legal secretary in NYC for years and we spell it counselor in USA. (Just like UK spells it offence and we spell it offense, defence vs. USA defense.) When I was younger, I asked my attorney why do they spell these words wrong all the time LOL...That is how I learned (just a bit of humor).
I really feel for your daughter. When I was stage one, I was thrown into early menopause by the chemo then Tamoxofen knocked me for a total loop. I was clinically depressed for quite some time. I know it was the hormone issues triggered by the medications, even though my doctors at the time didn’t agree.
Recently My current oncologist said that up to 10% of women end up clinically depressed by Tamoxofen. Or a majority, but not insignificant. I felt vindicated. Bottom line if your daughter is pre-menopausal and on any sort of hormone suppressant, that’s could be exacerbating what is already a really tough situation.
She needs to stay on the medications but perhaps understanding that there might be a physiological cause of her depression as well as a mental one might help her put it in perspective
Another thought might be to meet with an integrative oncologist or a nutritionist to see if diet, exercise or even supplements could help.
What she is feeling is real. But the cause might be varied.
XoP
She is not on hormones because her cancer is Her2 positive and HR negative. She is not pre menopausal and has had per period regularly since chemo ended. She is now on herceptin and perjeta every three weeks which are targeted drugs for Her 2. I do like the idea of a nutritionist and integrative oncologist! Will look into that! Thank you!
Maybe your daughter is stuck in receiving diagnosis mode. Understandably so. Getting started with managing her cancer, like nutrition, exercise, etc. I have found eating better makes me feel better.
I hope she has lots of help with child care now. That is a lot to manage, as I am sure you know. Hope these thoughts are of some help.
Cheers, June S.
She is trying to eat better and gave up her velveeta shells. She needs help with the kids and I am there usually 8 hours a day. This week she quarantined me as my husband and I went back to Bama for a week and the numbers are high there for covid. We saw no one, ate nowhere except what we had but still. So she is with the kids until her husband finishes his work. They will not allow a nanny due to covid
Well she was wise to wait before letting you see the children bc Bama is up there now so better safe than sorry.
Have you thought of calling her psychologist? The psychologist needs to be made aware of the depth of her depression. She may be dealing with post-partum depression on top of everything else. Better to piss her off than not to let someone know. Good luck to you and her!
Ann
Actually you are correct. She was just getting better from post partum depression when the baby was five months and right then was diagnosed with cancer... crazy right? So there is still an element of that PPD in that head. I have told her that. She would be incensed if I called the psychologist plus I have no release but I did ask her if she tells her what she says to me. She says she does; I know in couples therapy she tells the truth because her husband is with her. She talks to a psychiatrist monthly who gives her the meds and she is on trintellix... I told her to let him know too about the anxiety and depression and she says she does. I am between a rock and a hard place because if I call them she will know and explode...
I would think the psychologist could not discuss his adult patient with her mother even though I get that the mother wants to help. The patient is entitled to her privacy.
I want her better as she continues to sabotage her life apart from cancer but no I do not want to discuss her with her psychologist.
Can you tell her you want to consult with the psych or go with her for one session? Because you are concerned? She may be able to accept your going with her as she would hear everything you said and not feel you are interfering or going behind her back. 💕
I can try. It is all on zoom or FaceTime these days so that would be easy
Anna's idea seems good. Ask your daughter if you can join in for a session.
Wow! What a lot to deal with. I wish you all the best. There is lots of good suggestions here on this forum. I hope some help.
Cheers, June S.
Definitely! Thanks to all of you! I love this site!
I'm sorry to hear that. It must be hard for her own family and you as her mother to see this. Maybe she just needs a break away from all. To a relaxing spa for a week or a long weekend. OR maybe you can secretly mention it to her oncologist. I have good days and very very bad days and I never really know what happens. Now, I am feeling jealous of my friends that are healthy and doing things I can't do any longer. Some days I wake up optimistic and feeling okay, and other days I cry non-stop. Who knows? Her symptoms sound worse. Maybe she could take a break away. I am not married nor do I have kids so I imagine the stress of cancer and dealing with a family can be overwhelming. I will keep her in my prayers also (my list is so long).
Thank you!! You are really smart and empathetic. She seems stuck on anger focused at her nice husband. This was a bad week he told me. She threatens to leave a lot. Their couples counselor told her yesterday that was unfair. She did it last night anyway after. Couples counselor asked her if she thought she was easy to live with. Now she wants a new counselor! She is crazy... my diagnosis. Maybe she needs inpatient
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