Why are men shown no dignity at the dermatologist? I recently went to my female dermatologist and I had a spot in my genital area that I wanted her to take a look at. The scribe had been sitting there watching my full body exam (This gives me the creeps by itself.) Why didn’t the dermatologist ask her to turn her back when I had to lower my boxer shorts? Why hadn’t she told the scribe, when it comes time for the genital check, give the male patient some privacy and dignity and turn your back? Better yet, why doesn’t the scribe sit at the table with her back turned for the entire full body exam when the male patient is standing there in his boxer shorts and doesn’t want an audience!
I would love to hear from a dermatologist on this subject, in addition to anyone else.
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I suspect the presumption is that if you consent to seeing a female dermatologist you are comfortable with being unnecessarily exposed to a female medical assistant. The only way they would know otherwise is if you tell them and specifically order the voyeuristic assistant to either turn away or leave.
I totally feel for you . I won't even go. PERIOD. I have a similar issue that needs to be checked and when I work up the nerve I will ask my family doc about it ( probably no time soon) the idea of two people in the room for such an intimate exam is inexcusable. scribe or nurse or whatever it is. I have had many urological issues already and even had to learn to self cath for a while, but this I cannot handle. I have dismissed the last urologist that I was " assigned" because my doc left the practice . he had no sense of modesty either and he was not sensitive to my needs. including the presence of a nurse. life just does not get better with age .
As "Modestmale" already indicated, one can't assume that medical providers will think about your own comfort level. I've learned that you have to make your own wishes known, be willing to order unwanted persons out of the room when ambushed by them, and also be willing to reschedule or see someone else if your wishes will not be acceded to.
After seeing a therapist for several months, about my experience with a "chaperoned" genital exam by my regular provider (who I quit seeing for that reason, making sure she understood why), I decided to engage in some de-sensitizing exercises. I deliberately sought out a female dermatologist, and accepted the closely-watching scribe/witness/"chaperone" and have gradually started to overcome my own sensitivity - having chosen the experience myself, and knowing I could speak out if I wished to helped me "own" the situation. No, I shouldn't have to do this, but given the realities of more female providers and their apparent over-sensitivity to male bodies, it seemed a practical compromise.
That’s a unique approach. This issue, which some perceive as medical sexual abuse, may result not only from unnecessary exposure but also from loss of control in the medical setting.
However, I still believe it’s the inconsiderate medical people who should be having therapy. They have no idea how many males avoid elective medical care due to their ignorance or intentional deflection of these issues.
As a man you will never receive respect unless you demand it. For me I wouldn’t be seeing a female for this to begin with. This already says you don’t have a problem with a woman seeing your penis so why would they assume you have a problem with 2 women seeing your penis. This is why they keep doing this and getting away with it because men aren’t speaking up. You have to expect this kind of treatment when you allow for it
The reason I am going to this female dermatologist is because she’s an excellent doctor and takes good care of me. My previous dermatologist was a man who never listened to me and who brought in 2 female assistants to watch my full body exam, which is totally unnecessary! Why is it a lot of these doctors, male and female, don’t realize that most men don’t want someone sitting there staring at their partially naked or fully naked body during the full body exam? Get the exam done without Voyeurs sitting there staring at the man’s genitals! Why can’t the scribe sit at the table with her back turned and take her notes without making the male patient uncomfortable by her staring at his naked body!! We should not be put in this position to have to ask the scribe for some privacy!! I have in the past looked straight at the scribe and said to her “ would you mind turning your back for a minute.” It’s very creepy for the scribe to sit there and stare at my body with my boxers on, but it is intolerable for her to sit there and stare at my genitals when it is totally unnecessary!!!
(If I were her, I would not want to be accused of being a voyeur.)
If you are a man and this makes you uncomfortable, demand that the extra female set of eyes, turns her back so this won’t make you uncomfortable! We’ve got to demand change because some of these doctors just don’t get it!
I am OK with a mature female doctor having to examine my private area if she is a good doctor and is professional. She is a much better doctor and a lot more professional than my former dermatologist, who was male.What I won’t tolerate is a spectator sitting there staring at my genitals which is totally unnecessary! Sit at the table with your back turned and take your notes without being a voyeur!!
I come at this from a different perspective. I am a christian and although you can’t find verses that relate to intimate procedures that exist today the Bible is clear that any interaction between a man and a woman intimately is only supposed to occur in marriage. Just because mankind has developed new medical procedures that involves intimate exposure doesn’t mean it’s ok to break the biblical rules. Just like circumsion was only done by males and babies were only delivered by female midwives in the Bible why not carry through with the same principles as new procedures get discovered . For me it’s not just a personal issue it’s a moral one
Yes, both of these dermatologists allowed their female assistants to watch them do a full body exam on a male patient. I’d like to ask one of these dermatologists, how would you feel if your gynecologist allowed a male assistant to come in and view your naked body! You wouldn’t tolerate it and somebody would be fired! Maybe these doctors will “get it” when there is enough protest from the mail patients.
Absolutely you must speak up for yourself. My dermatologist is a male. The few times I have had to have him look at my private parts, I told him “I’d like it to be just you and I in the room “. Without hesitation he would ask his assistant to step out, and then have her come back in when we were done. No problem. If he wouldn’t do that, I’d be finding another dermatologist. As for my urologist, he is a male as well, and an excellent doctor. I chose him for those reasons. He never has an assistant come in the room with him. Just he and myself.
That’s the way it should be because it doesn’t unnecessarily discourage men from having elective cancer screenings and medical care. I’ve simply given up on dermatologists and they obviously don’t care.
I've purposely selected a male Dermatologist. I've only gone twice but each time there was a female scribe that stayed in the room. It's very uncomfortable for me. I'm not going back.
It is a shame that this dermatologist doesn't respect your privacy and dignity! Would he bring in a male assistant to sit there and watch a full body exam of a totally naked female? Of course he wouldn't, there would be a lawsuit!You could try what I did with my dermatologist. I said directly to the scribe," would you mind turning your back for a minute". I needed to pull down my boxers and she did turn her back.
If your dermatologist doesn't have any respect for your privacy and dignity, leave and find another one! There is absolutely no reason that the scribe can't take her notes at the table with her back turned to give the male patient some privacy! I doubt if this Doctor would allow a scribe to sit there and stare at his genitals while he is getting a full body exam! Until we men speak up, this kind of unacceptable behavior will continue!!!
I selected a male dermatologist for the same reason. Thankfully, when the nurse realized I wanted a spot checked on my penis, she proactively offered to step out for that portion of the exam. It made me feel a lot better, as I struggled with insecurities for a long time.
With my embarrassment in hand, I went to see my GP regarding an issue with my foreskin. With absolutely no expectation of what the appointment might involve, I could have been more pleasantly surprised. The (male) doctor could not have been nicer and supportive.
After an initial discussion, I was asked if I felt able to show the GP the ‘problem’, and was asked if I wanted one of the nurses to come into the room during the examination. I didn’t (!!!), but it was nice to be asked.
During the examination, my penis and foreskin had to be moved, and I was asked if I wanted to do that or if I was ok with the doctor doing it.
Overall, I was extremely and pleasantly surprised by how the appointment went, and I won’t hesitate to go back to the GP for follow up.
That’s the way to handle it. Our male doctor now has a form asking if we consent to the presence of a chaperone. Knowing it’s unnecessary and will always be some low level female office assistant I just answer no. He never even mentions it.
This is something any ethical professional will clarify before the appointment. They should never presume consent and ambush the patient with what amounts to an opposite gender voyeur.
Modestmale, you make a good point here re "some low level female office assistant" that is worth emphasizing. Many of the posts here reference a female "nurse" being unnecessarily present or inappropriate.
What many guys are missing is that these females are most likely not even a nurse - they are operative level med techs and not even considered "professionals" like a doctor or nurse. And many times these non-professional female med techs are the ones that perform some direct prep or procedure care to men's genitals - shaving, catheter removal, etc. - especially in larger urology practices where $$ are saved by not paying nurse-level wages. Scribes are almost never a nurse - they are med techs or even just admin staff.
It's truly ridiculous, not just from the lack of privacy, but also as relates to the double standard compared to women's privacy, which is almost always respected without request.
Thanks to the rise of the modern-day feminist movement back in the mid 60’s, today, the entire american healthcare system is totally female centric. Heck, they’ve env has an Ofc. of Women’s Health in the federal gov’t since 1991.
Men to this day still don’t have an ofc. of men’s health in the federal gov’t.
In America, men’s healthcare takes a back seat to women’s healthcare. And these Hippocrates in the medical community are ALWAYS yelling how men don’t take care of themselves.
They’d rather yell, then admit to America they have turned their backs on American men and boys which is why they aren’t as healthy as they could be.
If you are a male and you need medical care, you must keep your guard up at ALL times when dealing with the american healthcare system.
They expect males to leave their dignity and pride at the door or don’t come in for help.
They’ll never admit to it however, but it’s a power trip for medical workers, especially female healthcare workers when males come in because better than 98% have NO CLUE what goes on behind those brick & mortar walls. Men and boy’s have no clue as to the amount of humiliation & embarrassment that may be inflicted upon them while they are there.
As far as dermatology goes, what better way to embarrass their patients than a skin exam.
Most female doctors do NOT think about their male patient’s need to have their dignity respected & privacy protected. They simply just don’t think that way when it comes to male patients. Female patients yes, males no. Maybe it’s the way they are training them.
Then to make things worse for men & boy’s, her thinking patterns get passed down to the staff that work with her by watching her interactions with her patients (females in the office will pick up on this quickly). Now you have the ancillary staff and the doctor looking at male patients the wrong way.
So here you are sitting in this office in a johnny gown & in comes the doctor, scribe, and possible a nurse and/or chaperone.
Did your doctor come in alone first & discuss the use of scribes & chaperones & offer you the choice of allowing them in the room? Doctors that are professional & are looking out for the needs of all their patients would do this.
Did you ask if there was a same gender scribe and/or chaperone available?
As far as scribes go there is NO LOGICAL REASON in today’s technologically advanced society, we live in that ANY scribe has to be in the same room as the doctor.
A lot of dermatologists use a wireless headset & just speak as they go thru the exam. Their words are either picked up on a tape recorder or a scribe in another room.
If they are not technologically advanced, the exam room should be setup so the scribe is off in a corner either behind a screen/curtain or they are over in the corner with their back turned to where the exam is going on.
The male patient has to know at this point, it’s up to them if their want to keep their dignity & privacy intact. If they do, they ask the doctor to have the scribe turn completely around until the intimate exam is over.
If the doctor doesn’t do it then the patient has to make a choice.
Go along with it under the doctor’s terms or stop everything in its tracks & end the appointment right there.
If you end the appointment, respectfully ask them to leave so you can get dressed. Get dressed then leave the office.
Otherwise bite your lip, close your eyes, & get it over with asap.
Part of the problem in your case is your age. They don’t expect older people to have dignity issues.
They’re completely wrong on the issue & they better smarten up quick. Word can spread by male patients on the way the office treated their dignity & privacy. Bad review equals loss of patients which equals loss of revenue.
I always tell guys to call the office ahead of the appointment & ask what their policy is on chaperones & scribes. Are the chaperones actual medical personnel or secretaries from the front desk (don’t laugh, they will use the secretary when everyone else is busy).
If I’m asked to get a test, I ask for & expect to get full details from someone about what the test is, what’s involved to do it, who will perform it, & where will it be done. If it’s intimate related, I tell them right away test must be done in a room by males only & no spectators are allowed in the room during the testing.
Until more men speak up against this rigged system, WE must control what happens between us and them.
You must find your voice and speak up or you may come out from the engagement a different person from the one you were when you started.
All unfortunately true. In my experience the people you can reach by phone are non commital and will say something like that will be determined when you get to the appointment. That’s the first signal that they deflect and don’t care about patient dignity or comfort.
I believe if everyone posted honest reviews like”This doctor seems like a very good dermatologist S/he has a female office assistant present for every consultation who is there taking notes and skin photos.” It would be a service to mankind. It would clearly advise and warn new patients to the inconsiderate practice and let new patients vote with their wallets by not going there.
We have to stand up for our rights since the medical cartel won't.
We know alpha males are too afraid of being seen as weak so we won't get help from them but maybe we can get help from mothers, sisters, & wives so we'll be around for many yrs.
Too many of us have walked away from needed care & it's ALL because of the way the medical cartel treats us.
The United States Healthcare cartel will always deny this so they don't have to deal with it.
There currently exists TWO standards of care withing our medical cartel because the system is currently female centric. One for females & a second on for males.
Now. If a cartel member violates a female patient's dignity and/or respect & she complains, the system will roll over backwards & do whatever they have to, to make her happy. Mind you all she has to do is complain to a supervisor & they will make it right for her.
Depending on the violation, the remedy could be as simple as an apology from the offender & that person doesn't deal with her anymore while she's in the hospital.
Or, it could be as serious as a criminal offense & the offender is fired & charged by the police. In this case she's offered money to sign a non-disclosure agreement so the facility can save face in the public eye.
Now let's look at male patients.
If a cartel member violates a male patient's dignity and/or respect & he complains (99.9% of the time it's a female cartel member), the system will just tell him, it's the cost of getting medical care in the United States.
This happens for offenses like;
making uncalled for comments about the patient's physical appearance in front of them.
Leaving doors & curtains open while undertaking intimate patient care.
Deliberately leaving the patient intimately exposed so other can see when there is no reason for it.
Verbally embarrassing & humiliating the patient.
Don't kid yourself. & don't let cartel members tell you your full of it it doesn't happen because it does & they know it, & mgmt. encourage it.
The only time that changes is if the male patient has irrefutable proof or his statements are backed up by a cartel member willing to say what they saw & heard.
Something that rarely happens today.
If the offense is egregious enough to warrant notifying the local authorities & the patient has the evidence to prove his charge they will try sweet talking him out of taking it any further. They'll have the offender apologize then move them to another location.
If it gets this far the male patient usually accepts the apology & moves on.
That is a HUGE mistake. That is the biggest reason why they keep treating men the way they do.
Men keep backing down, so they don't have to make ANY changes.
If you have proof, talk to a lawyer FIRST & drag the facility thru the mud in their town of business.
We have to warn men that chances are extremely high that their dignity & respect will be IGNORED by medical cartel members. So, they should be prepared to put up, shut up, & get thru it asap or be ready to use your voice & stop the proceeding & walk out & tell people what happened to you.
I have warned my state senators that if I don't see "real" progress on men's health protections before the next election I will let my male friend know they are against men & not to vote for them.
They are trading men's lives for the almighty dollar on a daily basis & it MUST STOP!
I am presently nursing a pretty bad hernia that I can’t have repaired because I have had multiple surgeries at this point and have been violated every time even though I’ve gotten more educated with each visit and made my request known they still manage to ambush me every time and their assurances are meaningless. So now I spend my life meeting with a therapist trying to resolve the PTSD that developed because of the trauma they have inflicted on me and there is nowhere a man can turn for help
Today, if you need medical attention & you're a male, your cursed.
Because of male egos & the fear of being seen as weak (even though speaking up for your self &your fellow brothers in need is ANYTHING BUT WEAK), men don't organize like women (look what they did at the beginning of the feminism movement back in the 60's & again when the Supreme Court killed Roe v Wade), & they also won't ask their women to stand with them & add their voice to his.
Therefore men continue to be abused by the medical cartel in this country to the point where they finally have had enough & just walk away from needed healthcare & die at a much earlier age than they should.
Since men refuse to help one another like women do & organize a response against the cartel, I suggest they use the power of their vote & talk to their local, state, & federal elected officials & explain to them men need legislative help & if we don't get it from them, they can kiss our vote good-bye next election.
That's about all we can do other than standing up for ourselves at every appointment until the cartel makes an egregious mistake with a male patient & a lawyer takes them to court & the news services get the story.
What irks me is doctors like Dr. Jared Bieniek, medical director of the Hartford Healthcare Tallwood Men’s Heath Center do interviews & say “When it comes to health care, men are an underserved population.” But then do NOTHING to help men out & he's NOT the only male doctor to say something.
If you're interested, there is a blog run by a Los Angeles doctor called Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modesty). The link is (bioethicsdiscussion.blogspo.... It's been going for years (currently they are on volume 123), but has the same problem every other male related blog has. How do you bring the issue out of cyberspace into the real world so it can be addressed & solved. As long as the problem stays in cyberspace, the cartel won't address it.
It is probably a waste of time to call ahead and ask what the scribe/chaperone policy is because it can be very different at the actual appointment. I always go prepared to preserve my dignity! My dermatologist has a scribe sitting at the table, taking her notes while I stand there in just my boxers. Very uncomfortable to have her staring at me while the dermatologist does the exam! What I will not tolerate, is for the scribe to sit there and stare at my genitals while the dermatologist is checking out a concern I may have in my groin area!! What I have done in the past is to ask the scribe to give me some privacy and turn her back for a minute. This has worked for me.
My dermatologist is very carful of my modesty. Patient is told not to remove underwear. I always take a pair of shorts. Genital areas are only checked upon request. There is a scribe. The office also has a male NP.
This is what I don't understand! Why can't the dermatologist tell the scribe " when it comes time for the genital check, give the male patient some privacy and dignity and turn your back." Most men don't want this woman sitting there staring at his genitals!
This happens one time and that male patient may never return for a full body exam again! A friends husband recently died of melanoma.
I could also be wrong. Seems that once when the NP ask me to turn to check my back the scribe turned to the side putting me out of view. She may not have been aware that I was wearing shorts. Could be she just did not want to see the back side of a 70 YOA guy.
I've asked for an "establish care" consultation with my new derm., specifically to discuss her "chaperone" policy and if it can be waived. I have a letter from my therapist diagnosing me with PTSD from a previous chaperone ambush to back up my request. If she refuses to waive it, I will ask that the "chaperone" stay as far away from me as the room will allow, and turn her back while my genitals are exposed. That way, I will at least avoid the nasty surprise, and see if we can come to some mutual agreement about extra pairs of eyes in the room.
All you simply have to say is "I am a survivor of abuse with PTSD and under the Americans with Disabilities Act, I request the reasonable accommodation (accommodation provision) that you (the doc) are the only person in the room for the exam."
You are under no obligation to disclose what your disability is (PTSD, anxiety, depression, phobias, etc.). It is illegal for them to ask what it is. And you do not have to prove you are disabled. All you have to do is ask for it. Once you request a reasonable accommodation, it creates a legal obligation that the provider MUST accommodate or you have legal recourse against the provider and the facility.
The ADA is a very powerful means to protect patients. Under federal ADA, you are under no obligation to disclose your disability (in your case, mine, and those harmed it is PTSD), it is illegal for the one that you are requesting accommodations from to ask what it is, and you do not have to prove that you are disabled. All you have to do is ask for it.
Just has a scan through these posts, and have to say I was very shy when it came to such things. But by the time I had been through Circ' Surgery, from the first Doc' visit, to various exams, I gave up caring. But I did become aware that often it is the Medical Professional who requests the Chaperone in case of any allegations later on.
I'm not sure if the original poster is still watching this site but I too had an experiences while visiting a dermatologist. In my case I had a really painful rash around my genitals and upper thigh area. I tried over the counter treatments and it didn't help and things just got worse. My primary sent me to the dermatologist. The nurses gave me laser treatments over a 3 week period. I had to stand without underwear as they treated me with the laser which took about five to ten mins to do. The nurse was nice but it was not easy for me to do this for weeks. I really didn't want to do this but I really needed help with the rash. The laser triggered an erection and I just wanted to die. Nurse tried to assure me this was normal, but try doing this while standing in front of her. I hope that the rash never comes back
I’m sorry to hear about this embarrassing and painful experience at the dermatologist. Let’s hope they have gotten rid of it. Just out of curiosity, did the nurse bring in an additional nurse to watch this embarrassing procedure?
calif2018 I tried to respond to this a few days ago but it never appeared. In regards to what happened to you it makes me cringe. what they do to men is downright cruel. They know that what they are going to be doing to you is very likely at the least going to cause you some embarrassment and at the worst have happened to you what happened to me where the trauma of what was happening to me at the hands of 2 women caused me to suffer dissociative amnesia with no memory of the ambush and assault and I didn’t regain any knowledge or memory until it was over. They have no idea what they could possibly be driving a patient emotionally to experience but they proceed anyway without approaching intimate actions like these without trauma informed care.
in regards to erections I’m so sick of hearing nurses explain it away as a meaningless biological reaction and perfectly normal. This is what they are taught in medical school but it only serves to legitimize what they are doing by never acknowledging that they are causing is a man to become sexually aroused even when his wish would be not to get an erection no matter how many times they try to declare the innocence of what they are doing it is sexual and they know it.
Why is it they can be sued for doing you bodily harm but damage you emotionally sometimes beyond repair and suffer no consequences for their actions?
I recently found and saw a male dermatologist (not easy - most are female near where I live). On checking in, I told the receptionist that I was there for a check up. She asked "full body"? I said yes, and was shown to an exam room with instructions to undress and put on a gown. A female med tech came in and took her position at a computer, facing me, and made some notes as I responded to her questions. Then the male doctor came in, and in classic ambush fashion, as several female students followed right behind him, said he had some students with him and was that OK. I said "not really", and the line of students had to stop quickly, bumping into each other and retreating because they were coming in so fast. The doctor then said he had a "nurse" in the room to make notes, although I had already noted she was a med tech, not a nurse, which is not a professional like a nurse. The good news was that she kept her eyes firmly on her monitor the entire time and did not look up during the exam - I guess she got my message.
Guys, this is one of several classic ambush tactics you'll see in doctors offices, along with female chaperones, unnecessary female assistants, female trainees, etc. This BS happens because we don't assert ourselves and speak up and say no. If you object to being exposed to females in a medical setting, especially non-professional females, be prepared to speak up when you go to see your doc - male or female. And know that official medical ethics requires the doctor to get your permission to have any non-actively involved person in the room with you. And remember that the medical profession has no guidelines whatsoever about what constitutes an appropriate "student", and that there are plenty of other patients those students can view exposed for their training - don't be altruistic and then regret it later.
You're absolutely right! We've got to learn to speak up or nothing is going to change!!!
I recently wrote this letter to the large Dermatology practice I go to. It goes into detail about how men feel about how they are currently being treated with regard to their privacy and dignity during medical examinations. I wrote it specifically to dermatologists but it could be easily adapted for any Specialty.
Please feel free to copy and paste any, or all, of it and send it to your doctor's practice. I sent one to each doctor in the practice and the practice manager.
I think this letter should go a long way in helping doctors and staff in understanding the truth about male modesty and how to make small changes in the way they conduct exams thereby make the examinations more dignified.
Name of Dermatology Clinic
ATTN: Dr. XXXXXXXXX Date XX/XX/XXX
Dear Dr. xxxxxxxxx,
As a concerned patient, I want to make you aware of what men are saying, on multiple blogs, concerning their visits to the dermatologist. The consensus among these men agrees with the experiences I have had regarding my privacy. Although this is not widely appreciated, most men are just as modest as women! Just like women would never tolerate having a male assistant looking on during her pelvic exam, most men find it humiliating to have a female assistant staring at them unnecessarily when they have to expose their genitalia. Men expect to receive the same dignity and privacy afforded women. Unfortunately, many men feel ambushed by a female assistant and most men feel too intimidated and embarrassed to speak-up. They state that it is very demeaning for them to be completely naked while the scribe stares at them. When this happens, they feel violated and many vow to never come back for further exams. Some even report needing therapy for PTSD-like trauma! This disregard for a man’s emotional trauma results in him not following-up on possible life-threatening conditions (i.e. Melanoma) and that likely contributes to the shorter life span of men. Women are tired of losing their fathers, brothers, sons and husbands sooner than they should. This does not mean that male assistants have to be provided. If a female assistant is needed to take down physician’s notes, then she should be TAUGHT TO REPECT THE PATIENT’S DIGNITY BY TURNING AWAY during the genital/perianal portion of the exam. This should occur without the assistant having to be told by the doctor or the patient! The doctor can dictate his findings while she has her back turned. If an assistant is needed to perform a procedure (i.e. Biopsy) then the patient should be covered except for the lesion that needs to be biopsied.
The comfort of the patient is paramount, so much so, that Congress passed the “Patient’s Bill of Rights”, legally guaranteeing the patient’s Privacy and Dignity.
Men are saying that they are fed up with this type of disrespect and invasion of their privacy. They believe that many medical professionals, particularly nurses and assistants, are indifferent to male modesty and routinely dismiss men with bullying and shaming practices, unbeknownst to the physician. “We’ve seen it all!” is of no consolation to the man being exposed unnecessarily. Some are even considering litigation.
I hope you will be willing to make these minor changes to make it more comfortable for your male patients. I believe most men would greatly appreciate this consideration.
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