Given that the home page for this website prominently mentions the well-known male tendency to avoid medical treatment, I was extremely surprised that my search on the terms "modesty" and "privacy" yielded no results. There's a growing awareness that one of the major reasons men stay away from health care providers is the fact that their needs for modesty and bodily privacy are seldom respected. There is no such thing as a male mammographer, but the vast majority of scrotal ultrasounds are performed by female technicians. It's unthinkable for a female patient to end up undressed in a room with a male doctor and a male assistant. But the reverse happens all the time: more and more female physicians and NP's are bringing in so-called "chaperones" when performing intimate examinations and procedures on their male patients, and those chaperones are almost always female. Usually, men in these situations say nothing about their feelings of embarrassment, exposure, anger, and/or humiliation -- but when they do, their responses are usually dismissed. Not always, but far more often than not: "You don't have anything we haven't seen before." "We don't have modesty here." "Do you have a problem with women?
Since my goal is to initiate some discussion of this topic here, I'll share an "ambush" experience of my own. I've posted about this on other blogs, so if you follow the subject already you may have seen this before.
I’d been seeing a female NP for 5-6 years so thought I had a good working relationship with her. Then I had my first “intimate” exam with her — regarding a mass I’d noticed on one of my testicles. After the initial discussion, she left while I undressed, lay down on the exam table, and covered myself with a drape as she instructed. But when she opened the door again, one of the intake nurses (also female) was right behind her. Without a word to me, they positioned themselves directly across from each other at my hips. Then the NP pulled the drape completely off me, and I was exposed to both women from waist to ankles. I was so shocked and embarrassed I literally couldn’t speak – the NP hadn’t said anything beforehand about bringing in a witness, never explained why it was necessary, and never asked my permission for it (which I certainly would not have given). Before this encounter, I had never even heard of “chaperones,” and had never been undressed in a doctor’s office for anyone but that doctor. The whole encounter left me feeling insulted, disrespected, and humiliated; I had trouble sleeping and focussing at my job, and ended up seeing a therapist for a few months.
As mentioned, I have discussed this encounter on other websites, so I'm not necessarily seeking feedback for myself. I would be interested in hearing about similar experiences from other men, and how you responded to them. The more visible this issue becomes, the more likely things are to change.
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modestguy
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I can understand the modesty issue but in the context of the circumstances you are requesting a service from a health care professional to diagnose and treat your condition. You have to rationalise their status as they are under pressures of trying to serve your clinical needs whilst observing all the associated rules like Health & Safety general NHS procedures. Sometimes they do fail to communicate all that is going on for your benefit as time is another pressure on their shoulders but I have been almost a professional patient of the NHS since 1948 and found that polite questions usually elicit a reasoned explanation. I owe my existence to the ministrations of the service and give them my trust and so far it has never been betrayed. We have to give the tolerance and respect to those despite our natural modesty concerns from those of us who have never been naturists.
From your response, it sounds as though you're in the UK. I'm writing from a US perspective. While I appreciate your concern for the pressures on providers, there is (on this side of the pond, at least) a long-established and worsening trend of disregard for male patients in particular. Our medical community has learned to address the modesty needs of women, so the problem is not simply one of time demands.
In regard to physicians learning to address female modesty, they didnt but were forced to and there are still big problems, let me assure you. But the medical community is being forced to address these continuing issues despite not wishing to. However they have not addressed those of men. But one thing I have been amazed at in reading this blog is that so many men
don't complain, speak up, or refuse to continue if they are not heard or accomodated. I am new to this concern for male patients and I would have assumed men would have raised hell, but apparently not. Eye opening!
There are several reasons men don't speak up. Men are indoctrinated to not show their feelings - they are "supposed" to "man-up" and take it. Also, saying something only adds to the embarrassment. In addition, healthcare staffing below the doctor level is overwhelmingly female, even in urology practices where the average patient gender is 70-80% male.
Even if you are a man that is not that modest, you ought to speak up if for no other reason than to call attention to the outrageous double standard that exists between female and male intimate care, and also to change the system to help our brothers who are avoiding healthcare and dying due to their modesty.
Do not acquiesce to students or observers while receiving care - your care is not a spectator sport. Do not allow chaperones in the exam room - leave if they don't. If you are being left exposed for periods other than ongoing prep or care, immediately voice your objection. Urology practices can easily staff a male med tech or two and you can ask for one to remove your catheter or do other prep or procedure work...and if they are not available, insist on a male nurse or doctor...or leave.
It's time to change the all-female operative level healthcare staffing monopoly.
Two weeks ago here in the States, my brother was told he needed a scrotal ultrasound.
Nothing about how it's done or who does it was explained to him ahead of time. He and his wife drove to the facility to get it done. On medical visits my brother and his wife accompany each other.
So they get there and he's called to the back to get tested. As they are going through the door to the hall leading to the exam rooms, they cut his wife off at the pass & tell her she's got to wait out in the waiting room. That didn't sit well with either of them and it heightened my brother's awareness and he said an internal warning went off inside him.
They took him back with no introductions. She gave him a hospital gown & told him to strip from the waist down & lay on the exam bed then she left.
Ten minutes later she comes walking in & she's got a chaperone with her.
Needless to say my brother was po'd. he stopped everything in its tracks. He asked where the male tech was. she told him there is no male tech we don't have any on staff. She told him to lay back & don't worry he doesn't have anything we haven't seen a hundred times before.
He said he no. He told her that if a chaperone was needed his wife would come in she's out in the waiting room. She replied it's not facility policy to use spouses that they only use other staff members.
So he replied okay bring in a male staff member.
Sorry, we only have female staff was her reply.
My brother replied fine, everyone out I'm getting dressed this test is over. He pointed to the door they came in. She was about to say something when he said out again so then they turned around & left.
He got dress, went to his wife who was waiting & they left. He called his doctor when he got home & reemed them out for not warning him ahead of time about the procedure.
He called me two days later and told me he's thru with healthcare. He won't go anymore as they cannot be trusted.
The American healthcare system at it's best. Still trading men's lives for the almighty dollar.
I applaud everything your brother did... except for swearing off health care. Making one's modesty requirements known and not backing down is the only way to prevent unacceptable situations from occurring. But maybe he could ask that doc to help him find a more responsive ultrasound provider. Most docs are willing to work with their patients, and genuinely want them to have what they need. My mistake was not calling a halt to the proceedings like your brother did, but I complained loud and long after the fact, and also got some good advice about making my requirements known in advance. I now inform any new provider of what I will and will not tolerate. Providers rarely consider male modesty on their own, but most are willing to oblige if it's brought to their attention. Best of luck to both of you.
Spoke with my brother at length last night & he's still upset over the fact that they didn't ask first about the chaperone nor did they tell him a young woman would be doing the testing.
I told him its called ambushing. They do it to male patients all the time.
For the time being, he's decided to walk away from healthcare. I told him that's his decision but if he should decide to try again, I'd be willing to go over things he needs to know to navigate thru all the hidden traps.
We need some legislation out of Washington to force change on the healthcare industry before too many more guys decide to just walk away. His wife and daughters are upset he's not getting the care he needs.
I'm concerned for him as well. He needs to know that he can take back control of his care, something it took me awhile to realize. He can kick anybody out of the room that he doesn't want there, and if the doctor doesn't like it he can reschedule (my own policy in such cases is to demand a refund and instruct my insurance company not to pay because the visit wasn't completed). He can interview doctors and care teams ahead of time to make sure his wishes are known. Hopefully, this is just a temporary reaction.
I am not sure why you guys weren't informed of who was going to do the procedures. I always ask who and what it is going to entail. They have always been up front with me. I ask if they were male or female (which is not a big deal to me). Yes it it not easy with opposite sex doctors being there. In my mind if it is a big procedure (surgery) being done it will be a male. If it is just a radition thing or a ultrasound or something like dermotology nine times out of ten it's a woman. In some cases they will have a scribe, which will more than likely a nurse, that take notes and to assist the procedure. In my case the male has insulted me and twice was practically yell at me because they thot I was incompetent to them. Male superiority reared their ugly head. I found the female docs were more open to me and none have ever thot they were smarter. Right now I need surgery on the scrotum area and have a female NP as my provider and yes a female nurse with. Only the male do the surgery in which I will not let them do the procedure because of the verbal assaults by them. But I do realize I made my decisions to switch doctors and they only had 2 NP's left to see. I let them decide which one to see. Yes my choice to switch so I go along with it and get treated better. The women are very professional and courteous to me every time I go in. Always greeted with a smile versus an ugly person who seems the whole world is his enemy. I have a peace of mind knowing now I am in good hands with very good doctors even if the room is occupied by only women. So I guess I am thinking I am in tge wrong here? Or should I go back to the ones that assaulted me (males)?
You should do whatever feels right to you. Everybody is different, and every patient has different needs. If you're more comfortable with female docs, then that's all that matters. If you feel mistreated by your male providers, then register your complaint.
I strongly preferred female docs until my own "chaperone" ambush 4 years ago. My subsequent reading and research uncovered the dirty little secret that this exact scenario happens frequently between female providers and male patients -- that is, deliberately NOT announcing or explaining, but leaving the room while patient is undressing, then just returning with the witness after the clothes are off. Apparently, some female providers are uncomfortable with exposed male patients, and put their own feelings first. Not all female providers do that, obviously - but enough of them do that men need to protest and stop the trend.
The first dic for I have had (urology) was the doctor who caused me pain spiritually and verbally. I was told a year later he passed away in his sleep. So no write up to him. My third doctor believed I had gotten him fired but I did not filed any paperwork against him either. The nurse that was with him accidently walked in the appointment and visually seen with her own eyes that i was assaulted again. She was going to fill out the paperwork and I told Her dont worry a about it. So she sent me to a different hospital that she used to for work. Great place. Now I have someone I trust even tho she is female. She had an 64 y/o nurse in room and the intimate part was coming up. The NP asked if it was alright she stayed in room. I acknowledged it even tho I didn't care for her. I later wrote how bad she was, treating me like a child and she couldn't navigate the hospital computer. I had to tell her. I felt frightened in the room with her because one slip up it would have turned into a fright show.
Info have an orthopedic surgeon there and he was great. Never will ever leave his services. Had had a nurse that was helping me prepped for surgery. She was new and I don't think she saw too many naked men. All she could do was stared at my privates. Then after surgery another nurse ask me if she could show another new girl what had been done. I had an circumcision done so I said go ahead just so the new girl will know what to do if she gets same type of patient. And the other new girl...... Well she got another eyebfull when I took my gown off after shoulder surgery. All she could do was stared at my privates instead of helping me change. 2 other nurses had to show her how it done. Crazy but now she know what they expected of her now. Good and bad in everyone. I agree they need to ask before bringing someone else in.
Scribes are not nurses - they are typically med techs. I don't mind intimate care from a female nurse if she is professional and communicative, but I will not again allow an operative level female med tech to provide intimate care or chaperone.
Every guy has their own personal modesty level. Like you, I don't mind female doctors and nurses. But I draw the line at the mostly unprofessional med techs.
My wife is a Nurse and I told her I felt a little uncomfortable with the 'chaperone' being present during my recent treatments, resulting in circumcision. She said it is more to protect the Doctor than you. Fair enough, but as you say it would be more professional and at the least politeness to explain what was going on. At my last exam' before discharge I am sure it was the Consultant's secretary who stood there while he inspected my Penis. At that point so many people had seen and inspected me I was past caring. A few seconds explanation goes along way and the patient should always be given the option.
Thanks for responding. If something happens during your care that you don't like, you have every right to register a complaint -- at the time or after the fact. I waited a couple of months after my experience to say anything about it (and I had to threaten the practice with reporting them to the state medical board to get them to respond), but their top managers did eventually sit down with me. They apologized for the incident, they told me I could always a) stop the exam, b) insist that the chaperone leave, or c) request a different provider if the one I was with refused to examine me without a witness. BTW, they ended up retraining their entire staff on more considerate "chaperoning" protocols, and actually thanked me for bringing the problem to their attention.
skydog you are not being helpful. Generally I prefer a male Doctor whilst being examined intimately. Firstly, because I feel he will have more empathy to my situation and also less chance of getting an embarrassing erection.
My last check up following circumcision was with a young, female, attractive, trainee GP. I chose her because our Surgery gave the option and as few people said yes the appointment was quick. Also by this time I had been 'inspected' by all and sundry and was passed caring. I can tell you as she felt around with her face inches from my penis I had to concentrate on the random notices on the wall to control myself.
Jaglad - Skydog is a troll. I've seen him on other threads addressing this subject. He doesn't want to be helpful, he just wants attention. Ignore him and he'll go away.
modestguy: Like your experience, and soulstealer's brother, I had almost the exact same thing happen to me with a scrotal ultrasound. The only difference was that my wife wasn't with me, and I suffered through the whole embarrassing thing instead of having the nerve to get up and leave like soulstealer's brother did. When scheduling the ultrasound, I specifically asked if a male would be doing it, and I was told that they would put that request through for me, and make sure a male technician would do the test. A woman took me into the room and told me to remove everything from the waist down, lay down on a table next to the ultrasound equipment, and to put a sheet over me that she handed to me. She said someone would be with me shortly. I just assumed that someone would be the man that I had requested. I couldn't believe it when a female (probably in her mid 30's) came in the room with another female, who could not have been any older than 21 or 22. The female in her 30's told me her name, and introduced me to the younger girl. She told me the younger girl was a "trainee", and she would be observing the exam today. I said that I had requested a man do the test, but she told me he had called off that day, so she would be doing it, along with the trainee. I about died, but made the mistake of keeping my mouth shut. The only other woman who has ever seen my penis and testicles is my wife. I am definitely not very well endowed, and the thoughts of these women seeing my "junk" almost sent me into a panic attack. Not that I would have felt any different even if I were well endowed, but I'm extremely self-conscious of my size, making sure to put a towel around me in locker rooms, etc. To make a long story short, I suffered through the whole thing, and with as much rubbing that is done back and forth over the testicles with the end of the sonogram unit that has jelly or some type of lubricant on it, I ended up with an erection. I felt like it was a complete betrayal to my wife, but with that kind of stimulation, how could any man keep from getting aroused. I was completely and totally mortified and embarrassed. I told my wife about the two females, but just couldn't bring myself to tell her that I got an erection. I still have guilt about that to this day. I think your initial post about patient modesty for males is "right on target". I guess the medical profession thinks all men are OK with stripping down in front of females, and have no issues with it. They certainly wouldn't treat a female like that. Talk about a double standard.
YOU have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. Physiological reactions are not under one's control, and certainly don't constitute betrayal.
For future reference (forgive me if you know this already), you as the patient have the absolute right to refuse any treatment, any provider, and any extra personnel in the room for any reason -- in fact, you're not even obligated to give a reason, but in these instances it would be helpful in getting the general message across about male modesty. Telling a "trainee" or student to leave should not even hold up the procedure (and if it does, complain to the state medical board). Many providers insist on "chaperones" for legal reasons, and they can refuse to examine or treat you if you decline that legal witness, but you can always reschedule with someone who will honor your wishes. There is no actual law requiring "chaperones" with adult patients, so if a provider tells you that, they're lying.
If I were you, I'd complain even now, after the fact. It took me more than two months to work up the nerve to register a complaint, and another two months of phone calls and emails before the clinic management agreed to sit down and talk to me, so you do need to be willing to persevere.
Here's the link to another website, an extremely informative and supportive blog moderated by a practicing physician and med-school professor who is campaigning for better modesty recognition:
Great advice. Don't continue and order extraneous people out. it's your right. And women are allowed any person they designate in the exam, spouse, friend, parent so why aren't men? They have the same right. If enough men complain, walk out, raise hell, they will have to listen. But bottom line is the public is not really aware this is an issue
For perspective: I've had three scrotal ultrasounds in the past year. All three were with women techs, but no additional witnesses or trainees were ever in the room, and I was treated very respectfully -- my penis was always covered with a drape which they gave me to hold onto (that helped me feel a little more "in control"), and even my thighs were covered. During one session, the tech had to get up in the middle and check on something, and she even pulled the drape down over my scrotum while she was not actually examining me. Treatment guidelines recommend limiting exposure to ONLY the area being examined, and only WHILE being examined, but obviously not all providers adhere to what they're taught.
If you went to the trouble of prearranging a male tech and that tech called out, they should have notified you to reschedule. That's just common sense, not to mention common courtesy.
Hi NoCurve. Your story really hit me. I'm the same kind of man. I'm 48 and lost my virginity to my wife, so no other woman has seen me nude, and I don't know what your definition of "definitely not very well endowed" is, but I'm pretty darn sure I'm well smaller than average and every time I need an exam, male or female, I'm embarrassed.
I had the same exam not long ago. My tech was a female as well, but I have yet to ever have a chaperone with any procedure. The woman how did my ultrasound was nice and never really paid much attention to my genitals, only to look over once in while. When she went up to look at my bladder, she completely recovered my genitals.
I have a lot of surgical history over the past 7 years. The biggest was a kidney transplant. During that surgery they placed a catheter to accurately measure urine output. Honestly, my biggest worry about that huge surgery was that I was going to be exposed to who knows how many and how embarrassed I'd be. My wife is always trying to calm my nerves about my thinking that everyone, especially females are going to be making fun of my smaller penis and joking, etc. Which I'm sure they weren't, but that was (and still is) my issue no matter how much my wife tells me to stop worrying.
Anyway, speaking of patient modesty, right after the surgery in ICU my penis started burning like crazy. I had to call for the nurse and she cleaned around the catheter. That wasn't as bad as when a doctor was doing his rounds with all the students and he pulled off my covers and lifted my gown for a mix of men and women, all in their 20's and showed them everything. I was freaked out, I couldn't believe they did that! In fact, every time someone came to see me, they all did that! I was like what the hell????!!!! I had very little privacy and there were so many nurses (male and female) that took care of me, I started to get used to it. I will say though, no one made any kind of expression or anything else that made me uncomfortable. The nurse that took my catheter out was so freaking cool, we both laughed and she made me feel so comfortable!!
Since then I have had dermatological issues and most centered around my armpits and groin, I've had two different female dermatologists that have had to do procedures around my genitals, both are young and attractive, but have been fantastic. My current had to inject and drain a cyst on my leg under/side of my scrotum, she ended up calling a nurse in so she could hold my penis and scrotum out of the way! Holy cow, I thought I was going to die! But, they were both totally awesome, and I've that nurse several times since and everyone acts like nothing happened. In fact, that same situation is likely going to happen today, same cyst in the same spot.
I will admit, though I've never had a full erection, I do feel it grow when they are handling it. I'm grateful I haven't had one, but again, like your story above NoCurve, it probably isn't the first time and won't be the last time.
Overall, in my case, I have suffered a lack of privacy, mostly in the hospital after my transplant, but everywhere else I find that everyone, male or female, is very professional, kind, and understanding.
Requests for observation experiences are common in medical settings. Medical ethics requires providers to get your permission for observers who are not directly involved in your care. There is little guidance in the literature or in professional societies' polices about who should be granted this privilege. Therefore, refuse permission if you are at all uncomfortable, or, if permission is not requested, immediately object.
Dadog & modestguy, Thanks for your support, but I am not explaining myself to the likes of skydog, more trying to encourage others not to be embarrassed while also hoping Health Professionals give some thought to there Patients dignity.
this happen to me this happen to me when I went to a urologist. I got the same response from the female physician who said owed you have a problem with women I said no I have a problem with you not respecting my privacy. I held my ground. We must do this more often
Vitruviusman -- I'm sorry you had the additional disrespect to deal with when you protested. In fairness, I have to say that the responses to my complaint were consistently courteous -- but from what I've read, I think I'm in the minority. Absolutely, we must speak up -- and we must not accept browbeating when we do.
I had a similar experience but it differs substantially because I am not modest. I had a sore that did not heal in my pubic hair and I made an appointment with an all female dermatology office. The nurse practitioner came in with a medical assistant whom I chose to ignore. At the end of the exam the NP says, "I want to give you a full body skin exam" so I made the appointment.
When the appointment came up once again the NP came in with her female medical assistant. She asked me if I had any additional problems and I said I had little black spots all over my scrotum. She examined me and diagnosed the problem as Angiokeratoma of Fordyce, an unserious skin condition. She then conducted the skin examination but did not ask me to take off my underpants. The next day when I was scheduled to have some spots on my face frozen I mentioned that her previous exam had been incomplete. She left the room with her assistant and came back about 10 minutes later with another woman who she introduced as dermatologist.
She proceeded to examine me naked from the waist down and the two women sitting at my feet. Now I have an audience with two women watching and I really don't know why. I am not modest but all I can think about is, "don't get an erection."
I wasn't actually angry about it. They are women and they probably didn't know better. (Caveat: If the tables were turned and that happened to the NP, she would have been outraged.) I wrote them a letter explaining it and requesting that if they wanted to use me for education again they should advise me beforehand. They wrote back and said, "We can find you another provider." I was outraged at the insult and I still am.
Since Nevada state law says that the medical provider must get consent before a non treating person can be brought into an examining room, unlike you, I filed a complaint with the Nursing Board. I didn't ask for discipline. I just asked for clarification that the medical clinic before informed of proper protocol. You might want to look up the law in your state to find out if there is such a provision about bringing in a non-treating person to watch an examination. I would urge you to file a complaint. In your case there really was no reason for you NP to bring a medical assistant to watch your exam. At the very least you should have been advised beforehand so that you could opt out. The notion that a female with a male patient needs a chaperone is blatantly bogus. Male doctors do it because females are "passive aggressive" and will bring false charges against a male doctor. Men don't do that! If they are going to be aggressive they will be directly aggressive. If they are a chaperone won't help. Nurses, CNA's etc. take care of naked male patients all the time without chaperones.
My case should be of interest to you because it shows that even if you are immodest you are still vulnerable.
In your response to nocurve you said you have had an ultrasound. I would point out to you that they drape you in order to protect your modesty from themselves. I refused to do it because it is stupid! I want to be treated like those bullying nurse who say "I seen it all before. I want to be treated with professional indifference. All that is accomplished by draping is to emphasize that you are exposed.
I was recently examined by a female urologist. After a quick discussion she says, "Lets take a look at it." She acted like it was the most natural thing in the world that I should drop my pants in front of strange women which for her it was. I dropped my pants an she looked at it. The whole exam couldn't have taken 2 minutes. That is how I want to be examined.
I was once give a routine examination by a gay male doctor for an inguinal hernia. If you think it is bad to be examined by a female, try that!
I have left my story here in the past but I will say i have not had a primary care doc for close to two years. most of it has been because of an ambush in my primary care docs office. it is absolute crap that they feel they can make these assumptions. my doc brought in his nurse for the most intimate part of my physical exam he knew that i had issues about modesty and that i have been molested through childhood by men and women including once in the hospital after a surgery. I do not enjoy feeling the anxiety and all that comes from seeing the doctor. I know it affects my care and probably my health. He asked if I was OK with her being in the room. I froze, he knew who i am and saw that choked look on my face. that is when he said " well she's not here to watch!" had he continued with what he was going to do and I felt again like the helpless child in the hands of those people. this issue is as much about safety as anything. and it needs to be addressed we need to let our feelings be known.
I’ve had a couple of incidents at my doctors in the UK:
I had to go for a urology exam due to a lump on my testicle. The thorough examination was carried out by a male, including a routine prostate check. Once finished, he asked me if his trainee could also take a look, to which I agreed without really thinking about it. Of course in walked the trainee who was female, about mid 20s, and absolutely gorgeous! She promptly kneeled down and placed her face about 6 inches from my exposed genitals and had a poke around whilst being given instructions. My penis definitely became engorged but didn’t get fully erect thankfully. No-one mentioned it but I left the examination slightly embarrassed.
Another time I had to go for a checkup with my GP for what turned out to be epididymitis. My female doctor did the examination with me stood up and her on her chair. There was a lot of manual manipulation and I did get an obvious semi which pointed directly at her. She then said; ‘I was going to ask you if you’d had any erectile difficulties but it looks like you’re okay’. This broke the tension a bit and I was actually less embarrassed.
I’d be more embarrassed with a male doctor if I were to get an erection.
Getting treated with modesty, by the health care industry, is a tricky thing. Sometimes you just don't get it and sometimes you think you got it. I've had many surgeries to pull from. For instance, one time after arriving in the OR for open heart surgery and transferred to the table, my gown was removed. There were 8 females in the room. For the next 45 minutes I was scrubbed and painted with betadine. Then after the surgeons assistant "mapped" my right leg to take arteries out , I was put to sleep. And another example is when I arrived in the OR for a Urolift, which pertains to the prostrate. This time there were only 5 woman waiting for me. I was transferred to the table and my legs were put up in stirrups. I asked nervously what was next. The Rn said we are going to put you under then clean and paint your genital area. I asked if my gown was being completely removed. She said yes, but don't worry about modesty, we'll put you under first. Nuff said!! And don't let anybody tell you differently. 95% of the time once you are on the table and then put under, your gown is removed so that you can be cleaned, painted and draped. I had surgery on an eyelid. I was told to take everything off??? When I was positioned on the table, one of the nurses said, make sure the back of his gown is untied or we'll have trouble getting it off. Have fun!
I have had the opposite experience. Mine was with similar sex doctor. The first one ridiculed me about everything and I was so embarassed I did not want go to back. He was eventually fired before my next visit. Ended up with a female doctor. Great lady but when it came down to the sensitive part, I was nervous but survived. Other things were needed so I was transferred to another male doctor in which he would not let me clean myself off from the gel from the digital he had done. Back to the female go for the findings of the digital. Then another referral out for a cystopscopy. Female nurse does the setting up. Scope in penis and whatnot. Male doctor comes in does the scope and wanted another digital. I was in compromising position. Hand and foot on chair foot and arms with my belly arched to ceiling. Awkward never done that way before. Nurse walks in with a stunned look on her face. Doc mutters something and walks out. Nurse apologized for walking in on me. I actually think I was ok with that because I think the doc would've hurt me physically. Ended up in another room with doc and he asked me why I come in. I tell him I have issues down there. He promptly walks me out the door. Three male docs and all slam me for being seen and I have issues. So go to another hospital for exams and female of course and all the necessary things done, prostate exam and all with a nurse in room. They did better than the male docs that shamed me when doing my exams. No more make docs for me. Scared to death of them.
-- Modesty is something that the patient asks for (because it is NOT a right), and they can ask for too much (being too modest).
-- Dignity IS a human right.
-- This is a form of victim blaming. (This risks ire from the #MeToo movement.)
-- Modesty is the means that the patient protects his intrinsic value as a sentient being from himself.
-- Dignity is the means that the patient's intrinsic value as a sentient being is protected from others (external forces).
-- This thread deals the patient's dignity (intrinsic value as a sentient being) being assaulted by external forces (providers) and NOT from themselves.
I have always been asked if a student/assistant can come into the room. I never asked if they were female or male. So it is my fault for not asking. You have to assume with a opposite sex provider that they will most likely have a chaperone. I have never had a chaperone for male doctor but always with a female doctor. I get all the modesty stuff but when a my pcp explained that sometimes the trainee needs hours for their residency or they are going to work in the clinic/hospital and are seeing how the facility do their way of practicing. It doesn't matter who or what comes in maybe it could be somebody that comes in and MAYBE saves a life or has another diagnosis that could be treated a different way that can eliminate surgery or a safer method. Why not help somebody get good training and be a better care provider whatever the sex of provider is. I have had better luck with the opposite sex provider and better mannerism.
I have no objection to students observing - in fact, my current doc's office IS a teaching practice associated with a local medical school. But even in that situation, the patient needs to be ASKED if an observer is acceptable.
I agree with you on the the patient should be asked permission. I told my urologist that I am open to it anytime they want but only in my checkup not for surgery. I asked that they get permission beyond my checkups. She always has the nurse ask anyways. When she comes in she always says yes I seen it in your chart that is ok but still wants it okayed by me personally. Respect.
Requests for observation experiences are common in medical settings. However, there is little guidance in the literature or in professional societies' polices about who should be granted this privilege. A resident is fine, but what if it's a college student? high school student? first year med student? how many will be watching - 1...3...5? Is your doc really going to let you vet the request before you decide?
It seems that all reasonable patients would promote training as long as it is done with dignity, informed and advance consent of the patient and with the patient’s comfort placed above all. It’s when one or more of those ethical tenets is violated that patients object or feel dehumanized.
Education of medical students is not just about diagnostic skills. Every human comes to every situation with different backgrounds, experiences and emotions and medical students should be trained to approach them with that in mind.
I have been ambushed in a similar and also found that i could not speak to prevent it. I believe this is the reason that is is done in this way. my ambush was during an annual physical and she was there the whole time. the doc when he told me she was that to stay could see the terror on my face. ( I am a survivor of childhood abuse which he also knew)
his statement was " well she's not here to watch! " and could I have spoken I would have replied " then why is she here ?" it has now been t years since my last physical though I have had to see the urologist a couple times and got similar treatment.
if you want to live a good long life you have to go but if you go they will treat you like meat. seems like a real issue to me
That is utterly ridiculous and unacceptable. Where to start...first of all, his response was inappropriate not only for its aggressiveness, it was completely false - she was there exactly to watch! Second, no one needs to observe an annual physical! There is nothing that even a first year nursing student would learn from that. Good grief!
thank you for the reply. the window for me to complain has long since passed. I have changed physicians twice since seeing him. and as I say it has been 7 years since I had any complete physical. I have gone back to scratching in my sleep at the thought of exams in general, which only brings on more scrutiny. it seems to me there MUST be a better way. I know there are a lot of male nurses so, where are they all working, on psych floors?
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