Patients are allowed (yes allowed) 2 pads changes per day plus 1 at night!

This is what the care home told me today! The NHS will now only pay for 3 pads per 24 hours!! I was just enquiring about buying or not buying dads pads. Anyway the quick answer is we will continue to buy the super Tena belted pads as they are the most absorbent. Dad is changed 5 times in 24 hours but of course if bowels open in between those amounts increase! I can't be bothered to get into a discussion/argument with who buys what! We'll buy them as they are the best pads we've used and Dad can be changed as often as necessary without question or stupid NHS stipulations!! I just wonder who the f****r is that made the rule of 3 pad changes per 24 hours?! Let's hope they one day themselves have to endure this ludicrous carry on!!

Much love x

78 Replies

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  • Oh, Amada !!!

    Bleh to them.

    Caring is a weird battlefield a lot of the time.

    What's next?

    Hugs

    Kevin

    XX

  • What's next indeed young Kevin what's next? X

  • Well, given I have a crystal ball and I am rapidly becoming a psychotic (is that the word?).

    I see lot's of brown swirly stuff happening... now send me a silver shilling!

    lol

  • Ha ha haaaa, ughX

  • The Ice Age 2!! Cold and depressing here. Think we have had all 4 Seasons today.

    Marie x

  • Kevin...how can caring be a battlefield?!! Something wrong there? Seriously wrong in fact? You are right however, it has indeed become a battlefield. Makes me so angry! I need to read more posts like that, then I can get angry again and start complaining again?

    Hope you and Liz are well and not freezing? Going to put the heating on now! If one more hailstone hits my windows I am going to scream at the top of my voice!!

    Marie x

  • Gosh... Its cold here,but hailstones in late April!

    Its warm inside, but I fear for my seedlings.

    Yes... We just got everything sorted out and for the first time in two years I felt things were do-able and then PIP needs renewing and we are up for a CHC review next week... Treigered by the fact that they have just worked out Liz does not qualify and yet she has CHC. ;) Don't even go there on that one.

    One hand to care with and the other wielding a fighting pen!

    Can I scream without having the hailstones please?

    We had a good loving day today, but Liz struggles so.

    I hope you folk had a good day too.

    Warmly

    Kevin

    XX

  • Just found this on ageuk

    If you are about to move into a care home and have continence needs, they should be considered by a health professional with specialist knowledge of continence issues as part of your overall needs assessment. Your care plan should explain how your needs should be met. The effectiveness of your treatment and management programme should be monitored and amended as appropriate.

    If the assessment indicates you need specialist continence supplies or products and you meet local eligibility criteria, you should not be asked to pay for them. This applies regardless of whether you are a self-funding resident or receive financial support from the local authority.

    If continence problems develop after you move in, a specialist assessment may be needed and your care plan revised accordingly. Again if you meet local NHS criteria you should not be charged for pads or other products.

    If you have a relative who is about to move into a care home and who manages their own continence or only needs a little help, ask how residents are supported to manage their own continence needs. Staff in a care home should ensure everything possible is done to support residents to live independently and manage their continence. Look at the toilet facilities. Check how close they are to communal areas, their accessibility, spaciousness and the availability of aids such as grab rails.

  • I wonder how local eligibility criteria is determined??

  • Good for you following it up.. Gosh you are a fighter!

    They are just being cautious as most charities are. They say that so as not to challenge the status quo too much.

    we have a national system with national guidelines.

    nice.org.uk/guidance/condit...

    God help the NHS Service who do not follow these.

    Sorry for the bedtime reading.

    Ouch!

    Hugs

    Kevin

    XX

  • Aww thx K x

  • Hi I agree it's appalling unfortunately cuts backs from above that having got a clue about the implications. As a nurse I am putting an incident report in for every patient that develops pressure sore due to not having enough inco pads to regularly change, this then costs the NHS more money to heal a pressure sore and more importantly the pain to the patient. I have all my colleagues onboard and they are doing the same. Hopefully we will get listened too 😡😡😡

  • Well done Richmond!! And thank you for your help! X

  • My answer to your post is .Obviously someone counting the cost, and no idea what thier talking about.....one thing money cant buy is good health...but it can buy comfort...Brenda. .xx

  • Exactly Brenda! Tossers! X

  • Been thinking.

    The NHS is not allowed to ration.

    Care must be provided in accordance to need.

    The exceptions are those treatments which are not approved.

    You could always telephone or better still write to them, asking them to confirm in writing that they are rationing pads and not supplying sufficient for his needs.

    I expect you will be sent a truck load of gold plated Tenna super rather quickly.

    Rationing is unlawful in the NHS.

    How much fight do you still have in you?

    Sometimes its not worth it.

    Hugs

    Kevin

    xx

  • Loads of fight Kevin, loads!! I'll email a letter as easier, to the nursing home I presume?! X

  • No, contact the supplying team. That's usually a bladder and bowel team.

    It's unlawful to ration. They will not dare to put it into writing.

    If you use the phrase, 'this is a formal complaint' they can't ignore you, by law.

    I have sympathy for them though. There just is not enough money in their budget. We regularly buy things rather than put in for them because we know others who are less fortunate will have to do without and we don't want to break a crumbling under funded system.

    We got Tenna super because a receptionist told us their rules an we managed to get through the needle eye. The others were so useless we were changing sheets despite them.

    Hugs to you

    xxx

  • Ok Kevin

    I'll knock up a quick email and send to you ( if you don't mind) then with your approval I'll send to his incontience nurse x

  • How did you get the tena Kevin as I can't get anyone to budge on it here and will only supply crap shaped pads, won't even supply slip ones.

  • I asked if they supplied them to anyone.

    They said only to those suffering from Altheimer's .

    I kicked off with a short speech about the neurofibular tangles in Alzheirmer's being similar to those in PSP and that PSP was indeed a form of Alzheimer's.

    There, my secrets out... one three legged donkey sold.

    Hope it helps.

  • Such a clever geezer x

  • Shh... I don't want to have ego problems too.

    Fortunately my screw up rate is high enough to prevent that. lol

    XX

  • I asked question about tena and got told no they only supply the one brand.

  • Then in your area that is it I'm afraid.

    That will probably come to ours in time given the finances.

    And, they are dreadfully expensive!

  • Yeah there is no money here in Shropshire. Just shutting doctors and hospital departments it seems here now

  • Same here, one A&E department after another. One fairly modern hospital in a nearby is just a ghost town with a few day treatment units left open.

    Without health folk have nothing... Why cannot governments see that?

  • Why indeed?? X

  • Kevin

    It's all about money! Or lack of it? They won't take unpopular decisions by making those who avoid tax pay up?

    Marie x

  • Exactly - makes me mad.

  • There was a March here at weekend to save our A&E. It has been a big fiasco here over last few years and they want to move a new women's and children's department back to another hospital after spending 28 million on building it 2 years ago.

    Where is the logic in that when our town is the largest populated on whole county.

  • Spiral the Chief Executive of your hospital left ours to go over the border to you! He then retired for 1 day and got something like £250k! He returned to work for a while and the moved to Sherwood I think it was. It made the National news! That's why there is no money in the NHS! Well one oif the reasons why.

    Marie x

  • It really does boggle the brain indeed

  • Spiral same over the border in Cheshire. Maybe we should make a list of authorities/ CCG's not to mention hospitals where people don't get the care they should? Then send it to people who want our votes? Maybe we should leave hospitals off the list or they will close them? Probably will anyway?

    Marie x

  • It is such a shame to see our NHS in this state and care provisions.

  • I'm a afraid no amount of cajoling will get them to change the amount of pads per day. Even the district nurses can't believe that pads are rationed. In most nursing homes before the next (NHS alocated ) delivery is due they are robbing Peter to pad Paul and they do buy extra in at no extra cost to the client just to make sure they can keep people clean and dry. Jane xx

  • Mmmm Jane.....don't really what to say x

  • If your dad has been assessed as needing pads they will be supplied (but only set amount) and not the ones you want. The assessment is a case of checking at set intervals and then when the pad is changed it is assessed as being dry... wet... or saturated. And that will determine the absorption size needed.

    I have worked in enough homes to know what goes on. I have even assesed people for pads that don't use them but got an allowance for them so we could use extra on others. Jane xx

  • Thx Jane, your input is valued x

  • Hi Jane

    This is a new area to me.

    Are you saying that the Home gets the pads as per their assessment of needs for their patients and not the individual patient?

    So if a patient has higher needs they can up their ordering?

    Or is it capped.

    Thanks

    Kevin

    xx

  • It is capped per persons needs (used to be a maximum of 3 day and one night) But sometimes they put in for people that don't use them so there is a few spare. Sometimes the home will assess a person as needing more then they do so they can get the maximum allowance. Nothing worse then noro virus and minimum number of pads. It is the same for people being cared for at home. All comes down to cost and if you are allocated pads make sure you order them at the set time or they will cut down your allowance. Better to have more then you need rather then run out. I used to still get Brian's pads even though we was buying a more suitable pad and the lady down the road with Ms had them because she was not allocated enough for her needs. Jane xx

  • Thanks Jane

    That clears that up for me. Thank you.

    They do their best don't they.

    Thanks for the tip on ordering.

    Liz doesn't need her full allowance... I will stockpile.

    Kevin

    xx

  • Better to have extra now then to run out later. Jane xx

  • We could send them 3 pads and ask could they last 24 hours with just that number? Especially if they are incontinent?!!

    Marie x

  • Amanda I had to buy the Tena ones for Garry. They refused. Supplied me with others though. So guess it's all down to cost? As it is the NHS it is totally daft. I really think their procurement people need some lessons! Daft when you think the amount they spend on supplies?

    I never heard the bit about 3 pads per day before but nothing surprises me! They all need to care for someone with problems for just a week? From the CEO's downwards!

    Marie x

  • Hi Marie

    Yeah it was 4 per 24 hours now 3!! Agree with the CEO downwards, it's kind of principle here, I'll draw up an email but I'll be honest if we have to buy them then so be it,but unless one try's......x

  • Totally agree with you Amanda! It has made me wonder what was going on in the Care Home Garryvwas in. I had pads at home but they didn't know that. However I was asked if I had any could I bring them in. So I did! They used them of course but had he had CHC funding at the time then they would probably have ordered more for the use of others? It really is that bad now.

    People think we can have an NHS without paying for it? Those who are mega rich should be paying more in taxes. Either that or we forget the NHS and let it die? I know which I would prefer! Breaks my heart to think how some people suffer because greedy firms and people won't pay their dues.

    Marie x

  • Spot on darling

    Sickening isn't it? X

  • Totally Amanda. Just thinking what constituencies do the various party leaders represent? Maybe someone who is a carer in those areas or other areas for that matter should send them letters inviting them to visit their homes and listen to how bad things are and to see how PSP CBD MSA affects people?

    Marie x

  • Good plan Marie!! Who's writing to who? Lol

    My pen is ready! X

  • Where do they represent? Haven't a clue! Apart from the Lib Dem who is always on our local TV. He represents somewhere in Cumbria. Any other info? Are you talking about inviting them or sending them 3 pads? I am serious you know. Never a better time?

    Marie x

  • lol Marie! I say send 3 pads to them ask them to manage over a 24 hour period and wee away and open those bowels and see how they bloody well like it/cope?! Sorry, I'm laughing now at the utter absurdity of it!!x

  • Oh yeah I'm talking the basic pads too ie least absorbing, that's what they expect our loved ones to manage with! X

  • Yes but that gets headlines? Not to mention TV time? Maybe then they will be ashamed? Not sure if an invite might be best? You could hand them 3 pads as a gift?! Ask the question to their face?

    Here I am trying to think of a good campaign and you are laughing!!

    Marie x

  • Sorry Marie but you must see the funny side? I'm actually pleased I can see a funny side! Cmon I'm being serious now, you wanna campaign? Let's go girlfriend! Tell me what we need to do and I'll be there x

  • Has anyone looked into the type of pad the NHS are providing FOC and what that particular pad is designed for?

    Tena have several types of pad and they are different grades depending on 'output' shall we say.

    The chances are the 3 pads offered per day/night are the higher grade which are for a higher 'output'

    The 'over the counter' pants are a much lesser grade and hence need changing far more frequently.

    ... still doesn't make us 'carers' feel any better about the situation though sadly x

  • Here are a couple of links to the Tena website for the 'Maxi' products - these are for maximum absorbency of high output. You could always contact Tena for some free samples so you can test the difference for yourself (compared to other products).

    The Maxi range (Lilac band) can absorb between 2100ml - 2900ml whereas the Plus range (Blue band) can absorb 1400ml. Hope this helps in some way.

    tena.co.uk/professionals/Pr...

    tena.co.uk/professionals/Pr...

  • Oh thx you I meant dad has maxi not super!!! Doh!! X

  • I think the argument has to be carefully thought through. 6100ml - 8700ml of output per day is quite a large amount.

    I would suggest that maybe your loved one was having their bowels open more frequently which would then warrant more pads.

    However, if the assessor thought the urine output was too high they might suggest a conveen or other catheter as this would make 'changing' easier and a more convenient way to measure output too - I would think that would be a far more cost effective way (if cost was the issue), although the risk of infection is greater from a catheter.

    Sorry to be a bore x

  • Lol your not a bore, BUT, we've tried convenes unsuccessfully and Dad doesn't want a catheter!! The only pads that work sufficiently are the maxi Tena, otherwise you get into the realms of wet shirt and wet pillows etc! Trust me, we have tried and tested this tenfold! X

  • Morning

    Write to that tosser of a health minister and tell him he can only use the loo three times a day then it's in his pants!

    Spell checker does not like me using rude words!!!!

    Julie

  • lol brilliant Julie!! I love it!! X

  • I have just read all the comments and now I understand why when I visit my dad in his care home he is sat wet through his pad over used. The staff say they come round every so many hours to check if my dad needs to use the "bottle" to wee in but I've never heard them ask him. He tells us he presses the call button to get changed but hates bothering the staff. My mum goes crazy. If they only change him a set number of times a day no wonder they leave him till he's wet. We often go and my dads bed covers are off obviously my dad is wet at night.

    So sad. It's sad too that my dad and his care room just smells of urine.

    X

  • That is utterly disgraceful!! Speak to them today, please! X

  • I have no doubt you have tried and tested them all Satt2015, just as we all do to try and get the best for our loved ones. I was only suggesting to up the game by telling the assessor that more pads are needed due to double incontinence, this worked for me (albeit some time ago).

    Yep agree conveens aren't wonderful unless the person doesn't fidget! Lol. Having said that the combination of pad and conveen can be useful for some.

    Often pads leak because they are not fitted correctly, they are not the easiest to position especially if someone isn't able to stand or if using a hoist/stand-aid - and of course if they fidget then the pants/pads can move even with net pants on.

    Another little bit of useful information ..... Inco Pads/Kylie's/Disposable Underpads shouldn't really be used as a back up (in a Care facility) because they could potentially cause sore skin, also if on a chair, they show the user to be incontinent and therefore considered unacceptable for dignity.

    Melhukin - RE: Checking in a home ..... if a loved one is not able to get around themselves (confined to a chair or bed) then they have to be 'moved/turned' every 2 hours to help prevent pressure ulcers - this must be documented in their notes (it's law!) - if in doubt ask to see their Care Plan.

    Suggestion: when writing to the Doctors/MP's/Newspapers/Health Minister - remember to stick to the facts (bare in mind the product used and it's alleged capacity if fitted correctly) - and provide evidence where possible.

  • Jolly good reply thx you x

  • That is dispicable, that is like saying youare only aloud to use the bathroom 2 times a day at work. Such humiliation for someone that has suffered enough already...

  • Completely disgraceful! X

  • This post made me laugh out loud , oh what a tonic. Yes I sit and wonder who comes up with such ludicrous nonsense. All good wishes GW

  • Good to hear from you GW! How are you? X

  • Not too bad at present as I have recently had respite, oh the bliss. Yesterday had review on CHC funding and assessor is almost sure it will continue......that's a relief , also care package to be extended . Can't believe it as I hear such horror stories about CHC and it has been very straightforward for us. We know someone with PSP just had their funding removed !!!! Well keep writing the "funnies " , it keeps us all going . Not funny at all if you are sat in 2 pads a day , but the thought of someone sat working out the basis of such a decision is. Many hugs as we all struggle on xxx

  • Bless you good news GW! How on earth would someone with Psp have chc removed????? X

  • Well apparently , the worse you are then the less risk you are at, for instance.....completely bed bound....can't fall. Peg fed....can't choke , no infections eg chest or uti then needs are managed !!!!!!! At present hoist used for my husband and he thinks he can walk so if I'm not in room he operates recliner chair and could tip himself out. , he chokes on occasion but swallows ok . The gentleman who has had CHC removed lives near us, he does not walk, no speech, has dementia and has to be fed, also doubly incontinent. I just don't get it , must be another case of someone sat somewhere making the rules up !!' They had it for 6 months . Our assessor already told us she had a lady with psp go into a nursing home and lose her funding cause she was bed bound . It's the craziest system . Xxxx

  • Bloody hell!!!!!! I didn't realise that could happen??!! I would go absolutely bloody mental if that happened!! X

  • Me too...it's a constant worry ....so far we have had no trouble at all , I'd even say it was fairly easy ride through the system, Did all my homework, and followed Kevins guidelines , but I'm under no illusion things can change. !!!

    Xx

  • I've just written a post because I think this is sooo shocking and extremely worrying! X

  • I have to say this is why I have my sister still living with me- even though it is hard at times. I could not even imagine trying to deal with such an insane rule as this! It will serve the person who made this rule right to one day be on the receiving end of this rule. When did some humans become so inhumane?

  • Totally agree!! X

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