As an engineer who has had to use respiratory protection against mainly asbestosis I and many other filtration specialists have been absolutely appalled regarding the dithering and false info regarding masking up.
It is well worth anyone reading the truth of filtration and masks and particles including virues in the article by the Association of Heating and Ventilating engineers Association. This article is far more clarifying that any I've seen before. Heating engineers have been exposed to asbestos particles before they were enlightened re the fact that asbestos kills. The individuals that succumbed to asbestos lived months or years in misery. Asbestos fibres can be seen by the naked eye but mostly cannot be seen and those miniscule molecules are the dangerous ones that even 2.6% of them can get through the very efficient filtration material that is incorporated in a P3 filter.
The 'half' face respirator is usually of silicone rubber with the replaceable filters screwed or clipped into it. It can be up to 97.6% efficient against contaminants getting into the airways,
All engineers who have to know their stuff re masks must have been absolutely appalled re the false info that has been dished out for months by those who should know but probably do know better.
You may have notice the goal posts have been moved several times now |Borris says put a mask on but not a P3 one because we want them for the front line! The New York Times doctor's article exposes the lies and says the advice to not wear a mask because it does not protect has 'backfired'.
If people cannot see more masks are being worn when amongst others they must be very unobservant. Self preservation is paramount these days more than ever before. I've said it from day one of this crisis, any mask is better than no mask at all.
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Of course a mask is better than none! it’s shocking how many people are not wearing masks here.all I have to do is think of my children the thought of someone coughing on me and being able to do nothing because I don’t have a covering on is awful.I would not risk not wearing a mask it’s better to be covered than not
It’s awful a family friend died here as-well it’s not worth it as restrictions change people’s attitudes are changing not many are wearing a mask where I am
Some of us have a more acute sense of self preservation. I must have breathed some asbestos in but coughed it up in my twenties as a none smoker. At 79 doctors even now write down as a heating eng you must have handled asbestos? Yes I say right under our feet at this hospital in the ducts! When we knew the deathly dangers we wet all asbestos after of course putting a good mask on but not these thin things but a silicone half face mask with two P3 filters.
I'm sorry to hear that......My son's pal died a few months ago at about 56 with asbestosis. I just received a reply knocking the fact that any mask is better than none. The writer said asbestos is different to this virus.... Well of course I am well aware of that but I still say that if there is a chance that any virus particles stick to any fibre barrier in front of the breathing airways then there is a good chance that the infection will not get to the alveoli in the lung.
How many people breath only through their nose? I would wager not many but the nose is a far better filtration system than the trachea...... I still say any mask is better than none but the next best protection is the P3 mask...... Nothing less if you can get one and afford one.
I read a truthful article by a lady doctor NY Times = Telling folks mask don't protect has backfired. This mumbo jumbo from UK 'the advisors' may have prompted the Association of Heating and Ventilating Engineers to put forth their 'paper' which can be seen on the net re the facts about filtration of the 'VIRUS' The article is a very comprehensive one which I hope will finally make mask compulsory in places where contact is unavoidable. Such places would be any space within walls when any other person has been before they enter that space.
Does the public know that the latest research re tuberculosis that a person does not need to cough to emit that mico bacteria if they themselves have pulmonary TB?
With respect I still know from working with many different types of filtration that no breathing protection is 100%. As an ex diver I have understood that 100% enclosed re breathers are 100% but have to be handled with care to stop airborne contaminants getting airborne & then breathed in when the suit is off.
I don't know where you have got the fact you state re the filtration will not protect a mask wearer of the type I mention down to the size of virus because it will do that protect up to 97.4. Some asbestos particles are like hair fibres and are so thin that they can migrate through to the lung membrane,
As I said if you don't think any mask is better than none then you are wrong. Any filtration barrier does not stop all particles and fumes but there is every chance or a good chance that the contamination will stick to the filter fibres.
These days activated carbon actually attracts contaminants to it as in drinking water filters. Activated carbon is now incorporated in mask filtration. How thin or thick is chlorine gas? Chlorine and thinner contaminants attract readily to carbon.
If you say P3 masks do not protect against the virus why does Boris want them for the NHS? For fun?
That's really interesting information Micklemus. I think we should all bear in mind though that a virus, and apparently especially covid19 is much smaller than any particulate. I was all set to make a couple of masks with the intention of using some kind of disposable filter within them, until I heard a query on TV this morning about how to sanitise used home made masks, and I'm afraid it gave me pause for thought. Each time a non-disposable mask is used it needs to be washed at no less than 60 degrees centigrade, and given the nature of the virus it obviously isn't going to be safe to 'collect' several of them to wash together. It's therefore going to require a whole washing machine full of water each time you return from being out and about in your mask. Anything less than this and you are harbouring possible coronavirus around you!
Then there is the feeling of 'being safe'. You aren't! It still remains the case that a mask may help stop the spread of the virus but as prevention is only a 'feel good' measure. As a public reassurance to others, I'll certainly be trying to comply with the latest advice, and wear some kind of face covering, but I have real doubts as to the effectiveness and safety of mask use. But thanks for your thoughts.
Maybe You don’t need the water....? If heat to 60 degrees is your objective.... just hand wash the mask with soap and dry at 60 degrees in a dryer cycle....
Just wondering ..... maybe just washing with soap.... Should kill the virus.... since the soap should break down it’s lipid coating.... Just like washing hands...🤔
I read somewhere that UV-C is effective against Covid-19 in droplet - or little more than molecular thickness... so it might not work in a multi-layer mask.
You could be right... however remember the virus doesn’t actually multiply or live outside the body... it’s just the contamination, that you need to clear.... it’s unlikely to track inside a water resistant mask...
I like that Idea Ghounds, and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work!
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I'm 79 and could be dead from now onwards but no doctor can verify how any barrier is better than no barrier. Viruses are small but they are not so small so as not to get caught
in my p3 filters. There are two filters on my industrial mask. Any mask I would have thought proviso no metal can be microwaved I would have thought. UV light I am told is excellent killing microbes. I heard someone with the splendid idea who keeps a UV lamp on at night and sterilizes each room consecutively while in bed! My mask is not like the paper type because it is silicone so I could heat it to 250C without the filters in it.
I use plenty of IPA on my mask and also spray the prefilters I've made with TCP with water 1 to 1.
I think a mask is better than no mask at all my father disagrees with me and says the mass is not gonna do anything but I keep on wearing it I know it’s really for the protect someone else but I think it does protect you because then it doesn’t particles don’t go into your mouth and your nose now you have to wear goggles or something like that for your eyes
I think the thing is that it can't do much harm Jennyank777, so why not wear one, provided you take care with mask removal and disposal or laundering. 😊
I can't answer all of that, of course, but the questioner asked could the mask be ironed with a hot iron instead of washing , and the answer was 'no, it wouldn't be sufficient to kill the virus which can survive at quite high heat. I am only guessing but might the hand washing be sufficient when we are advised not to touch our faces. It might be a different matter with something which is to cover noses and mouths? I have no idea and that's the trouble with question and answer sessions between third parties when you can't join in! 😃
Actual fact is that masks with a none return on them as most industrial masks are as mine a North/3M silicone half face mask with P3 twin filters is almost as good as a mask can be but my mask only protects the wearer. The exhaled air emits with less resistance. I believe some masks seen with a valve which I thought were same as mine do have filtration with a carbon filter in the exhale valve.
I have made mistakes in my time due to some of the work being complex re electromechanical idiosyncrasies but I would stand by my statement that a barrier(mask) even if it did not fit airtight 100% as mine does is better than none. Any fibres may well catch and cause particles to stick to the fibres and not get into the alveoli in the lungs.
A P3 filtration is better and there should have been millions in stock ready for anything but as usual people are capable of mistakes and not do what they should do.
I do not think it is right to lie about that fact though.
In this time of crisis all of us must be exceptionally vigilant. Extra precautions re hygiene . As well as all what we can do by washing more regularly if we go closer than 20 feet of anyone or worse still in an enclosed room someone has already been in if we have a mask on hopefully contaminants floating in the air of any kind may well stick to the fibres of the barrier. There are ideas knocking about and the microwave seems potent? UV light is also potent. I spray my outer pre-filter sterile dressings with 1 to 1 TCP.
Any silicone mask can of course be washed with hot water and detergent after removing the filters. I used plenty if isopropanol on my mask while this lot is on.
These are all different ways to inactivate the virus. You don’t have to use all methods at once.... if any one method is done correctly and effectively
Thank you Micklemus for this post !!! It needs to have a wider audience. Hope it will eventually reach our PM, so we can implement simple effective policies in order to end this lock down disaster. So many lives have been ruined around the World, heartbreaking.
The terrible advice (original objection) from the authorities was the FEAR that civilians would start hoarding masks like they do with toilet rolls. They should have advised people to make their own masks from day one, instead of misleading people with insidious information. Now it gets to a stage where smart arses are unable to get the misinformation out of their heads, common sense just goes out of the window.
They would argue to death a long ridiculous list of why wearing masks is no use, while watching vulnerable people die in care homes. Well, I would like to ask them ...
* birth control methods are not 100% guaranteed, should people stop taking precautions ?
* Eating can cause choking which is dangerous, should we stop eating ?
* To avoid food poisoning, we should stop eating ?
* Crossing the road is dangerous, should we ban cars ?
Of course you don't, just have to learn to deal with the problems. Masks; goggles; hand hygiene; physical distancing; shops and offices logistics etc are much better strategies.
No authorities even make cigarettes illegal when it has killed millions around the World. They are not making any sense.
BTW, wearing masks has also other advantages, e.g. it helps hay fever sufferers (other allergies as well). You can add a pair of goggles when you cut an onion. If chefs wear masks in the kitchens, that should be more hygienic.
Some even argue to death about how many layers to make, please apply common sense, you don't want to suffocate with too many. Viruses just don't thrive as well on fabrics than on steel (e.g.) especially without the "help" of their hosts They don't have human legs to crawl and the droplets are too big to get through most fabrics (again apply common sense).
Some countries have no more new cases while we continue to argue against what works. Please help end this nightmare. Please don't think the lock down would not affect our care in future. The money has to come from somewhere. Other patients are already suffering, they can't even keep their normal appointments.
Your post is excellent thank you..... I realise there are many opinions what is safe and what is not but I am appalled by the lying that has been publicized re masks.
I really feel sorry for the medical teams that do not seem to have had the correct information to protect their respiratory system.
No worker of any kind should be life threatened through lack of equipment in this scientific age of ours.
|I give mine a swim in IPA isopropanol but I cannot prove what it's doing to my
alveoli? Cook em in the micro might be a good idea on the proviso there are no metal clips. If the little blighters are well done I don't think they'd give anyone a problem? I would think only seconds would do and if there is any moisture in them it would boil in a split second! Handy things microwaves
Maybe your post should be sent to newspapers or to haveyoursay@bbc. co.uk
Blanket Lock down is a huge mistake, I'm therefore all for the protestors. However, I have noticed on the news that most of them (including the police) don't wear masks during protests. If the protestors want their voices heard (they are right to want the lock down to end, but why don't they take precautions to set a more convincing example?).
I heard that some politicians refuse to wear masks due to their ego (makes their image appear "weak") They need to understand that they are not just putting the public at risk, they are setting a bad example. It takes a better man to see past the shallow macho image !
There would be less deaths at the care homes if only they would take simple precautions. The politicians could have stopped the lock down by applying simple measures yet they won't. They might later but the unnecessary delay at what cost? Frustration is an understatement.
Please tell as many people as possible to wear a mask at least during this difficult period. Wearing a mask can be cool too, if you are a creative and imaginative person. It also shows that you are a sensible person.
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There are very few of us who have a sensible attitude to masks. In general I see the south Koreans have the lowest death rate and their compulsory mask wearing strategy
is I think the way to behave.
Eventually there may well be and aught to be a copy of the South Koreans procedure in handling this virus.
The Association of Heating and Ventilating Engineers' online comprehensive testing of airborne pollution and the filtering thereof should be watched by all those who do not know what they are talking about.
It seems evident that the mask theory is catching on but not enough emphasis is attributed to that subject which I think is crucial.....
I saw on the television, cops with loud hailers on parkland such as a couple of days ago telling people to go home & then suntering up to a single young chap lying on the grass & then he bobbed down within a yard of his face to talk to him the mind boggles..... Anyone could see there was no valid reason to get so close to him..... The situation is ridiculous. A plain advert for the utmost stupidity and 'they' are supposed to be protecting 'us'..... The issue of contraction and how to prevent it seems a shambles to me. From day one the head health man contracted the virus & the next minute he was spouting to all how to prevent getting it......
Masks are odd things, at least here in the States.
Here, a business is legally responsible for providing equipment necessary for an employee to do their job.
But the businesses (in the US all medical clinics, hospitals, offices, & practices are for-profit businesses regardless of tax status) didn't want to 'invest' in PPE stockpiles since they could just order more.
Until they couldn't.
By then it was too late.
So that clown, Dr. Fauci, was on the telly saying that masks won't protect you, unless you're a doctor or a nurse.
Here's the real deal on masks.
Businesses don't want to spend the money so there is a 'mask shortage'.
(The mask 'shortage' drives prices up, & up.)
But the solution was discovered/invented before COVID-19.
Thank you for that. I have COPD and Bronchiectasis I was always hearing how you wear a mask to protect others, that worries me as who will be protecting me when many are not bothering now. I still wear mine ( with difficulty) so am I protecting myself as much as possible, Mags
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