Mangled and potentially dangerous prescriptions - PMRGCAuk

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Mangled and potentially dangerous prescriptions

Mayadill profile image
71 Replies

Department of Anything That Can Go Wrong Will Go Wrong.

Letter to my GP, real one with stamp and envelope, since messages appear ill-absorbed.

My Prednisolone prescription was and should be a single package of 5 mg and 1 mg tabs in a 12-week cycle. 84 x 5 mg for 12 weeks and 168 x 1 mg for 4 weeks x 3. Currently this should be issue date 15 March for the 5 mg, next issue due 7 June and issue dates 13 March, 10 April and 8 May for the 1 mg.

In April the 1 mg tabs were uncoupled from the 12-week cycle. I have been put at risk of running out which had the standard prescription been followed would not have happened. Please could this be corrected.

This follows on from a previous mishap. I am now on 9 mg; at the start of March I was flaring badly and on 15 mg. The surgery was aware in March that I was on 15 mg but prescribed a repeat ‘weaning dose’. Had I not been flaring, this would have been more than enough; the 12-week package averages out at 11 mg/day. I was flaring. It is obvious that on 15, 14, 13, 12 mg I should be getting through a ‘weaning dose’ with at best narrow margins for running out, in consequence of which, as below, I am being given even less for the 12 weeks. What was I supposed to do, magically drop to 11 mg because that’s what the computer thought I should be taking? I reduced carefully and got it right.

On 19 April I asked for the 168 x 1 mg due 10 April and said it would be convenient if I were also prescribed the 168 x 1 mg which would obviously fall due on 8 May. If not, then I should clearly get the 8 May scrip on 8 May. This would have happily seen me through to the next issue date of 7 June of the 5 mg and 6 June of the 1 mg, by which time if all goes according to plan, I should be on 8 mg. It did not occur to me that anything as ridiculous and dangerous as scrapping the 8 May scrip would happen.

What I got was 168 x 1 mg issued 24 April next issue due 22 May. I was not asked what doses I was, am, and hope to be on or indeed how much I had already, pertinent to determining how much Prednisolone I need and when as dates on calendar and computer are not.

As you of course know, Pred is not to be abruptly stopped.

Ensure that withdrawal from long-term treatment is carried out gradually to reduce the risk of potentially fatal acute adrenal insufficiency or relapse of the condition being treated.

Scenario: Corticosteroids | Management | Corticosteroids - oral | CKS | NICE

Rule One of ensuring is surely to make sure the patient is never anywhere near running out.

1. Today 10 May I have a total of 137 1 mg tabs left and no 5 mg.. At 9 mg per day this will last 15 days: until 25 May. If issued 22 May, ready for collection on 25th. Any hiccups and I’m a candidate for ending up in A+E with adrenal crisis. You have to appear in person to get an emergency scrip. I walk with a rollator and can’t even get into my chemist’s without help because of a high step. My cousin collects my scrips. I’d have to arrange with her to meet me there. I am not interested in these scenarios.

I should not ever have been put in this situation but should have in hand the further 168 mg due 8 May,

2. The 5 mg are due 7 June. I should have to apply for more 1 mg on 19 June That is daft.

This is the second time the only part of a message to be absorbed was ‘need more Pred’. Am I dealing with humans or am I dealing with AI? I have wondered. In March I said I was flaring and on 15 mg and needed more Pred. I got an anonymous message asking why I needed more Pred because it was ahead of the date on the computer.

I was confident I was now back on course and I could go through to 7 June. I am instead left counting tablets, needlessly stressed and frightened by decisions that have no basis in reality.

Please therefore

1. Could the 168 x 1 mg clearly meant to cover the period 8 May to 7 June be issued immediately, then I can stop panicking, and please could I be told that this has been done.

2. On 7 June could I be issued the standard prescription of 84 x 5 mg, duration 12 weeks, and 168 x 1 mg tabs to repeat every four weeks and everything should then be fine until touch wood PMR finally gets bored and goes away.

Many thanks for your help.

Not of course as cool about this as I sound. . Deep breaths, calm, centred. Everyone who sees PMR patients ought to know we must not be stressed! We are like little flowers and our petals shrink and curl up at the edges, we retreat into ourselves and just want it all to go away. Gee, you really have to be proactive concerning your care.

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Mayadill profile image
Mayadill
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71 Replies
PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

Perhaps should have been sent registered????? You couldn't make it up could you really!

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to PMRpro

Can't get to PO. Plan B is if no rapid reply to ring and ask if they've received it and if not, how do I email it. Damn well get in a taxi and deliver by hand. Plan F may be change surgery but of course there's no guarantee anyone else will be better and they may be worse. It's not something surgeries put on their Websites, 'we're really good at dealing with PMR and prescribing Prednisolone'.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Mayadill

You don't need to get to PO, you can pay postage etc online through Royal Mail website, and the postie collects from home address... usually next day.

As for your letter, I would have quoted number of packs required as well as or rather than number of tablets - you have to make it as simple as possible - the person dispensing them or transferring your request onto script for GP to sign may not realise you are tapering dose... or that at times you may to increase them.

When I ordered mine [on a monthly basis, which is our surgery's policy] I clarified by stating [using your dose as example] -

1 x pack [28 tablets] of 5mg Pred. 28 tablets in total

4 x packets [28 tablets} of 1mg Pred. 112 tablets in total

Ordering on on 12 weekly basis is seemingly too difficult for those at your surgery.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to DorsetLady

Ah, I knew they did that for parcels, didn't realize it applied to humble letters.. Keep it in mind for next time.

I get the 5 mg every 12 weeks. I've wondered about the 1 mg every four weeks. I think it's probably a logistics issue, actually, supply-chain. It's 6 packets of 28. Every 12 weeks would mean 18 packets and I'd doubt the pharmacy, which is just a little local one, is that well stocked.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Mayadill

Been doing letters for quite a while - sent a couple of Xmas cards overseas last year.

Can understand if local small pharmacy they wouldn’t be able to cope.

Ours is part of the surgery -which is in village and comes under main surgery in town 5 miles away. That’s probably why they only do prescriptions on a monthly basis.

Hope you can get it sorted satisfactorily.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Mayadill

They order it from their wholesaler - they get deliveries most days, YOu might have to wait a day rather thatn it be handed over on demand.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to PMRpro

Still suspicious. All sorts of supply-chains on this damp island are dodgy at the mo. I really love Yeo Valley organic frozen kefir - haven't been able to get it for months now and Somerset to Sussex is not exactly crossing the world. Keeps happening like that, things disappear, my cousin had it just last week with frozen shortcrust.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Mayadill

Somerset to Sussex is not exactly crossing the world. 

No it’s not, but crossing the UK seems like it!

North /South plenty of faster roads - East/West forget it (down here you can blame Dorset, we don’t have a motorway - too dangerous for the stagecoaches🤣😂)

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to DorsetLady

You have stagecoaches?????? Not chariots?

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to PMRpro

Dorset -stagecoaches, me - chariot 😊

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to PMRpro

Pigeons now, they're really underestimated. Or those chaps who used to run around carrying things in forked sticks. Maybe it's the highwaymen - whole new meaning to 'Stand and deliver!'

borednow profile image
borednow in reply to Mayadill

I have loads of pigeons in my garden - training starts today or food will be withdrawn.

Nagswoman profile image
Nagswoman in reply to borednow

Oooh oooooooooh oooh.Oooh ooooooooooh oooh.

Right outside our bedroom window during the dawn chorus. Drives me mad, especially as for 7 years of preds, sleep is never good.

borednow profile image
borednow in reply to Nagswoman

I think my threats to the pigeons have not worked. Far from lining up for delivery training, they seem to have taken their bats home. Hmmm, need to work on plan 2 ......

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to borednow

They may be having childcare issues...Flat-dweller with no garden but there is a rather thickly planted and superb verge opposite with a particularly fine and dense shrub and i am reasonably sure a number of couples have moved in there. If the squirrel would take over the childcare, the parents would be free to return to work. Delivery, good flexible work, choose your own hours, chance to see a bit more of the country.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to DorsetLady

i spent part of my childhood on the Dorset-Devon borders, Axmouth and Seaton. once walked across the landslip into Lyme. There was a bus every 2 hours into Axminster and the wider world was reached by train from Axminster to Waterloo. An express it was not. Stagecoaches with engines.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Mayadill

Not a lot’s changed…..😉

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to DorsetLady

As long as it hasn't got worse!

Koalajane profile image
Koalajane

that is awful.

My repeat prescription is still for 9mg. So every 4 weeks I can get 100 X1mg and 28 x5 mg. I am at the moment on 5.5mg but have a good stock so a flare can be covered.

Our surgery has a prescription clerk so any problems like this can be discussed.

I hope someone sees sense

Staffieblue profile image
Staffieblue

All my other medicines are on repeat my Doctor will only prescribe pred after a consultation , he literally counts them so I don’t have spare like I have seen mentioned on this site .

He’s on a mission to get me off them asap , you are so right about we shouldn’t be stressed ,

I feel like I’m being pulled both ways .

Can you contact the practise manager and let her know the how serious this is for you .

Good luck, but that shouldn’t be down to luck this is not a game !!! It’s your and ours life and it’s very precious .

I have said before it seems we are at the mercy at who we chance to be treating us !!! We always seem to have to battle to get sorted and our relieved to meet someone who understands and is competent in PMR .

Take care Mayadil ,

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to Staffieblue

Thank you so much for your lovely message. Yes, 'at the mercy of'. I'm not at all well off but I'd be perfectly capable in this instance of sending my past scrips to a private GP and getting more Pred there - fight/flight response says get out from under! But from what I see that's not allowed, you're trapped and have to keep plugging away

Staffieblue profile image
Staffieblue in reply to Mayadill

Me thinks you are more than capable 👍but it just saps all that precious energy that we shouldn’t have to use to get what is in our individual best interests .

Bridge31 profile image
Bridge31 in reply to Staffieblue

My surgery issues them like sweeties. Whatever I ask for, I get. I have a drawer full. Incompetence at the other end of the scale ?

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Stills profile image
Stills in reply to Staffieblue

I once tried to contact the Practise Manager over issues with repeat scripts and discovered the locum GP causing the problem was also standing in for the Practise manager as the post was vacant...............

Staffieblue profile image
Staffieblue in reply to Stills

Hope you got it sorted , just don't get it everyone can make a mistake , you learn from it and don’t keep on doing it .

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Stills

Then that should direct you to the NHS complaints process - I was surprised to discover that can involve PALS, they aren't just the hospital.

Stills profile image
Stills in reply to PMRpro

that is welcome news as I too thought they were hospital oriented THANK YOU.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to PMRpro

I didn't know that either. Bearing it in mind....

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane

This really adds to the stress of chronic illness. They do not get tapering and flares. I request more than I need to cover the contingency. When this is all hopefully over, I will have to return my surplus to several pharmacies. Wasteful. Well done for keeping on top of it, I lose the will at times.

Charlie1boy profile image
Charlie1boy in reply to SheffieldJane

Yes Jane, I did exactly the same - make sure I had plenty in reserve in case of contingencies, and, after over seven years on pred for pmr, I guess almost everyone needs a contingency supply - it’s in the nature of the beast.

To me, it’s appalling that Staffieblue has her pills counted out like that. What century are we in for goodness sake, and it’s not as if the pred pills are expensive!!!

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to Charlie1boy

Absolutely appalling and should not stand for. it. There are flipping limits and being treated like that is way out of line.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to SheffieldJane

Thnak you. Exactly about not getting it. Actual GP does, and was brill during my first flare, don't at all think this is her but more likely locums wet behind ears or maybe trainee pharmacist. It's been a cross between swings and roundabouts and musical chairs! I mean they seem to have two levels of scrip, this weaning one and the huge amounts I was prescribed when first diagnosed, So build up a reserve, then flare, eat into it. Which is basically the background here. Last summer I was way down, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 mg and nonetheless prescribed the weaning dose and had masses in reserve, then I got sicker,

suzy1959 profile image
suzy1959

This is ridiculous! If they weren’t trying to control your intake, it would all be so much simpler for them and for you!

Luckily my surgery let me order my pred. whenever I see fit so I always have more than I need. This is obviously because our dose has to be able to go up and down in case of flare, sick day rules etc.

It is also awful not to be trusted to know what we are doing with our condition about which we are the experts anyway.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to suzy1959

Ridiculous is the word. Well, no, actually the word is six letters beginning with s and ending in d, 4th letter is p. Could it be said to annoy me, anonymous people sitting behind computers making potentially life-threatening decisions without the faintest reference to the facts - messages obviously not from receptionists are invariably signed 'kind regards, reception team'. If i knew this was down to Dr Joe Bloggs, I could say, hey, Dr Bloggs, what is going down here? Certain issues of empowerment there. I've joined PMRGCUK and just might ask my local group about their GPs.

Body_bonkers profile image
Body_bonkers

I'd send them a bouquet of flowers who note on card saying you have 'X' days until adrenal crisis - that might get their attention more than a letter as imagine they may get a fair few of those ! Sincerely hope you get it sorted Mayadill because we have more than enough to worry about

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to Body_bonkers

Thank you, I needed a giggle. Or hire a performer of some kind. 'The Last Post' possibly a bit OTT, but how about The Beatles' 'Help!'

Stills profile image
Stills in reply to Body_bonkers

very funny, gave me a good laugh first thing to start the day 😆

Smithie49 profile image
Smithie49

Sooooo frustrating and good luck. I have a similar on going situation with my gp's dispensary so have given up trying to get what I need, am stockpiling pred when over prescribed rather than correcting the amount so that if I have another flare, I'll be OK. I've also bought a pill cutter so I should be able to sort out those little critters to the dose I need 😀😃

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Smithie49

But do keep a close eye on the use-by dates.

Smithie49 profile image
Smithie49 in reply to PMRpro

Will do thanks x

Ridge profile image
Ridge

I can’t think of anything more frightening than the threat of running out of Pred! I have such a back log that I have asked the surgery to hold for a while. Perhaps that was very unwise 😳

I do hope you get it sorted.

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora

what a mess for you! Hope you’re feeling better now?

Fortunately I can order my meds online and it clearly shows each medication so it makes it a doddle ticking the right box. That’s one positive for our surgery.

sidra1968 profile image
sidra1968

Good for you. I have had to get very assertive over the years with a couple of doctors. To the point where I am sure they think I'm crazy..but I couldn't care less..it worked and the acquiesced. Your letter is very good, keep us updated!

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to sidra1968

Thank you. I surely shall!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to sidra1968

makeameme.org/meme/doctor-d...

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to PMRpro

Love it! Alternatively...Patient: Ah yes, then you are of course familiar with the seminal paper by Clever, Expert, Genius et al in Arthritis and Rheumatism

Or any variation on that theme: Sweetest of smiles, should we then discuss the NICE Guidelines?

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

I'm stealing this.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to HeronNS

Hardly stealing - several variations to be found on tinterwebs ...

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

I've seen it before. Your version is now on FB and Twitter!

Vide profile image
Vide

Hi Mayadill I'm having exactly the same problem They initially wouldn't Pred on my repeat Resulting in me having to call them to order Then being questioned and eventually just kept saying okay thats fine I need an appointment to see a doctor then !!! Things then changed Now on my repeat prescription same issues as you So this month I'm just going to say again I need an appointment to see a doctor The last 2 months they have given me 64 1mg short Ny husband even took a letter from Rheumatology for new dose on it Nothing seems to work I really feel your pain x

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to Vide

Yesss. Grr. Truly, Doc, the right to mess people about is not enshrined in international law. I do hope you get sorted. Hugs.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS

Reading this I wonder how other countries whose public health care includes medication manage. I sure hope Canada doesn't follow NHS model! It certainly looks like they go out of their way to make things as confusing as possible for everyone concerned: doctor, pharmacist, patient. And innocent Canadian trying to follow your numbers! :D

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to HeronNS

I just ring my GP and tell her I need more pred and she prescribes the maximum packaged units I am allowed on the system - which can vary between 2 and 6 depending on the diagnosis. All medications are dispensed in the manufacturer's packaging so the pred I have comes in units of 30 tablets of 1, 2 or 5mg and all I say is the dose I need. I am trusted to combine them appropriately.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

Similar, except our pills are counted into a container. I've trained my pharmacy to reuse my container as it's a repeating prescription, same med, and I have no others (yet) to cause confusion. Saves plastic, they just affix a new label.

Highlandtiger profile image
Highlandtiger in reply to HeronNS

To be fair I’ve never had any problem getting the pred I need/want when I want it and there are probably lots of other people in the same situation as me so the issues people are having with the NHS aren’t universal by any means.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to Highlandtiger

To be fair to my practice, I've had no problems for nearly 3 years but part of the NHS's problems is high staff turnover and I'd think a newbie could well be the problem here.

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to Highlandtiger

Agree with that HT, my docs have been excellent right from the beginning, my prescriptions are on repeat and I just tell them now many boxes of each I need, usually a three it four month supply depending on how far my forward planning has gone. I also send them a full spreadsheet diary from beginning of PMR with where I hope to be in those months. They also fully understand that might not happen though.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Bcol

I think those of us who have, or have had a good relationship with our GP surgeries during PMR/GCA are more widespread than this forum often reflects.

Although I haven’t needed that much interaction with my surgery since GCA went in remission in 2016 [apart from osteoarthritis issues culminating in replacements] nor since covid except for usual vaccinations and monitoring hypertension, they have always been helpful.

Apart from the senior partner retiring about 5 years ago due to too much paperwork and not enough doctoring [he went off to work for air ambulance service], most of the same GPs are still there, as are the nurses/HCAs/pharmacy staff.

I’m guessing a smallish country practice is less stressful than a city centre one, but the overriding issue seems to be recruiting newly qualified GPs due to housing costs in Dorset.

Body_bonkers profile image
Body_bonkers in reply to DorsetLady

Joys of my rural practice - not long moved over to online repeat prescriptions but you still have to phone to get appointment so the lines are a tad busy. Prescriptions are posted to the chemist since the fax machine broke which is great during postal strikes. They won’t add steroids on the system so have to see GP and last two trips took three hours, I’m just grateful I can see a doctor however

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Body_bonkers

We've had online prescription requests for long time - and village surgery [satellite to main surgery in town, although only 5 miles away] has it's own pharmacy.

We can book online appointments with nurse or HCAs, but not yet returned to booking a GP [post Covid].

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to DorsetLady

When I read about things on here I always hope that your first paragraph is correct and that like many things we tend to hear more about the fewer things that go wrong rather than the many things that go right everyday of the week. I like the thought of the senior partner going for a less stressful and paperwork in the Air Ambulance, well done him a fab organisation. Saw a very young trainee doc in my visit last week and she was brilliant. Lovely manner, excellent explanations and question answering, really hope she stays with the practice. No new news on any of that yet.

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Bcol

Like most things in life - if everything is coasting along nicely, no need to seek advice, and I think some members don’t like to say every is going okay - perhaps they feel guilty when others seem to have so many issues. Some have said that on forum and privately.

It was a great shame the senior partner left, he was an excellent GP, but as he said to me in an appointment just before he went - he joined up to be a doctor, but latterly had become a manager to the detriment of his GP work, so time to go back to doing what he loved best.

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to DorsetLady

Agree. And good on the doc for getting back to what he was trained for and enjoys.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to HeronNS

Part of it all is an uncertain relationship with IT bound up with reasonable concerns about confidentiality. Depends where you are. When I was a medsec, the patients mailed me all the time and I mailed them their results and so on but in other parts of the NHS where everyone else in the country would zip off a text or a mail, the NHS requires the use of a quill. And limiting means by which they can be contacted does come into it. The curiosity is the apparent belief a piece of paper put inside another piece of paper called an envelope represents top security. Thousands maybe millions of letters are sent every day. An evil doer looking for potential blackmail victims need look no further than the outgoing post of the nearest STD Clinic.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS

? Sorry, is this reply meant for someone else?

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill in reply to HeronNS

Oh dear, am I tangling the thread. Apologies. It was meant as a response to what you said about our system making things confusing.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Mayadill

Oh okay. Sorry. Yes - I am a confused Nova Scotian as I don't understand the reference to letters. I used to carry a slip of paper from my GP to the pharmacy. Now he does it over internet. I prefer the former as I have control over exactly when the prescription is filled. I may not want it the day of the appointment when he sends it, and when the pharmacy automatically fills it, unless I can stop them from doing so, it cancels any remaining valid refill from former prescription (for exactly the same medication, pred).

Hunter134 profile image
Hunter134

I have to constantly remind my reumy to add refills.Last 2 times I called the pharmacy and he didn't renew.I had to get my gp to put them through.I wonder why all of a sudden we really have to be in top of things?Good luck sorting out your issues!!!!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Hunter134

That is irritating. I wonder why he's so forgetful?

I don't know why my doctor doesn't just make enough refills to last a year. I'm obviously not going to get anything I don't need. The prescription and all refills expire in a year, so it wastes all our time if I have to go back during that year to ask for more. My former doctor prescribed 200 tablets at a time, and a couple of refills. Current one prescribes 100, and a couple of refills. Not so bad now that my dose is back down. I'll have got about six months out of the latest prescription. Strangely he still asks me if I need more 5s - I only needed those for a few months two years ago!

Hunter134 profile image
Hunter134 in reply to HeronNS

I don't know why they don't give us what we need on time.My last appt I asked my reumy do you want to let my gp give refills?He said no I ll do it but didn't do it.

Mayadill profile image
Mayadill

Frazzled? Who, moi? Found I was feeling a deal more uptight about all this than is necessary (thank you, PMR) so bought myself a silly mug to take the mick out of it all.

Frazzled cat claiming everything is fine

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