Hi there,
My partner and I have live in NZ for thirty years, now both retired. We plan to emigrate back to the Netherlands to be closer to the family. I have had PMR for 3.5 yrs now on 3.5 mg. I understand that if we get Covid it often is worse than folks without an autoimmune disease. My question is: would you emigrate OR wait for the vaccin which probably is more than a year and more coming!
3.5mg is a pretty low dose. Covid is not worse if you take steroids, it is just that steroids reduce the immune system so you may catch it more easily. In my opinion we are a long way away from a vaccine if we ever see one, as it seems it is mutating. We never got a vaccine for the common cold, which is also a coronavirus. I may be totally wrong though with this doom and gloom!
Thanks for yr amazingly quick response....I M 67 years now and done with New Zealand, Worked there, and helped people, and although of course it is a great country. I am ready to “ move on” but then I think” am I out of my mind”?? Should I wait for vaccin.....answers from the heart is what I hope I get....everything is always tricky, it then you rust to your chair from being so careful....😉
My father was Dutch but married my mother who was Welsh!
If the family are all in agreement and you are allowed to emigrate back home to the Netherlands, bearing in mind that you live in an enviably safe place, I would go for it.
My daughters want us to follow them out to Australia on a grandparents visa. We are not sure and are waiting for my husband’s retirement and I guess a vaccine and most of all, the right decision for us.
You will go through a similar decision making process as me....success🌞
I live in an east coast province of Canada and right now (and since March) I cannot even go visit my daughter, nor she come here, from the centre of the same country! If a vaccine is never developed we shall have to visit each other (travel is risky) but wear masks, maybe for the rest of our lives, unless she and her little family come back here. I don't think I could move away from here. 😷
Very envious you have that option. We spent 3 moths in Australia at the beginning of this year and loved it.
Living in NZ is wonderful AND when you are old and hopefully get more older, you need to be closer to family if at all possible. Our kids are in Norway, but we cannot afford to live there and help with the kids, but Netherlands is closer, yes, wry luckie...
Follow your heart, but "stay safe".
Thanks for wonderful replies...
Can't say much really "your lives your decision", but it is a tough one.
The Netherlands have changed soooo much in the last 20 years - have you been back often enough to judge whether you would be happy there?
We left England to live in Germany 50 years ago and there is no way we would return there. Things there have also changed soooo much!!
Good luck! 🍀🍀
As piglette says, Covid is not worse if you're on steroids, in fact in some cases they are using steroids to help.
As for your main question, that is your decision of course, and I fully understand you wish to be nearer family, but in the current climate I would stay put. Not sure what the coronavirus situation is in the Netherlands, but certainly know what it is in NZ.
I have a son in UK and a daughter in NZ, and I wish I could be close to both, but I cannot!
In fact have shelved my plans to come to NZ this year - regretfully - but world is too volatile until/unless we get a vaccine, or the virus runs its course.
Being nearer family is always a good thing if possible. I am sure you will have spoken to people in the Netherlands who you know.
My son and American wife returned to England a few years ago. They left Colorado for West Yorkshire and are very happy here.
I hope you are as happy whenever you go as we have been in England for 75yrs. 🤗
If there's one place I would want to be in the middle of this pandemic it's New Zealand. My immune system is suppressed with the pills I take (mtx and pred) and NZ seems to be the one place that is handling the crisis as it should be handled - effectively. They had a proper lockdown of the whole country and actually got rid of the virus until some Brit turned up at the one port where they weren't doing the proper checking/testing procedure. Even so - an outbreak of half a dozen or so cases in a whole population of circa 5m people is very impressive compared to the UK where we still have around 1000 new cases per day. If I caught covid-19 I would be toast. My advice - stay there till the pandemic is down to less than ten per day - I'm shielding till then. All the best to you.
Actually it wasn't "some Brit"- yes they flew in from Britain but were NZ citizens. They were -and still are the only people permitted into NZ.
Personally I would emigrate now. Just me. I hate waiting.
Of course, at first glance, the obvious answer is stay in NZ and never leave. If the tourists aren't coming I'll need help with this wine.
That's such a difficult question. I can't help thinking that a year from now (six months even) there'll be a lot more real information about the state of things than we have today and then you'll be much better placed to know the risks.
That is an other great answer...and I think by the time we have done the house up it probably will be six moths later. Thanks all so much..
Holland is a special culture. All my Dutch friends eventually opt for going back after x amount of years in another country. It's not only being closer to family that counts but also feeling safe in your own culture I think. Especially this comes with age: feeling 'at home' among your own people and language. (This doesn't count for everybody of course). As for health safety (NZ versus Holland) I'd say Holland is a very organized and safe country to be in whether you get Covid 19 or not. Following your heart in this life changing decision may be the best way forward for you. Safety statistics comparisons between countries may not be the only factor to take into consideration here. ('The heart knows things the mind can't even guess at'- was how Descartes put it. I think it was him. I'll google and check!).
What you say is very interesting, for me one thing is extremely important. In the Netherlands there is a proper voluntary euthanasia law, which has worked well for years. Other countries, like NZ. Are struggling with that. The law we are probably going to get in NZ is very very minor. That whole thing has to do with what u mentioned: a certain culture, a way of looking at life , and death.....
re the Dutch voluntary euthanasia law I do admire them for that. The Dutch are very pragmatic and fair- they have a a balanced view on everything. They don't shy away from the one thing we should all be able to calmly consider: our own end of life plan.
I don't think there is any evidence that people with a/i disease get Covid worse than anyone else - indeed, some think that those of us who are on corticosteroids are actually a step ahead.
The more likely to catch is also not much of a runner since no-one has any immunity to CV and the only way to reduce the risk is distancing, mask wearing and hygiene.
I live in Italy, my daughters in the UK - one would like to go to NZ to work. It wouldn't make a lot of difference to us at present - digital contacts would remain the norm. I won't be moving back to the UK in the foreseeable future whatever potential advantages there might be being closer to the girls - OH wouldn't have left the house there recently - too hot, too windy or too wet!! And the hills ...
I assume you have investigated the realities of health insurance in the EU or are you entitled as being retired and in receipt of a EU pension?
But having lived abroad and returned to the UK once - I doubt I could face doing it again. It isn't going home - it is harder in some ways than moving to another new country but you move there with expectations that align with your memories of when you lived there before. They aren't always fulfilled. Of course I do have certain factors to add in as a committed European - I moved here because I could without any difficulty and that has changed greatly but that isn't something you have to think about. But the changes that are inevitable over time anywhere are there - 10 years the first time was not insurmountable for us but it was no picnic. Thirty years is a long time and many changes will be there to adjust to suddenly. The residents of the Netherlands possibly have rather wider horizons than many Brits who do have an island outlook and that may help - it's hard when new acquaintances have no interest all in your past as soon as they discover it was "abroad".
Having moved back to the UK over 20 years ago after 20 years of living in Germany and Sweden I do appreciate the problem; we did it for our daughters' education. But countries change and not always for the better. We were fine here until the last ten years or so. Now everything has changed so much I'd love to be back in Europe. I too have a daughter in Norway but it is not financially possible for me to live there even if age and our being now non-EU did not preclude it.
I have a friend moving to Portugal next month and I really envy her - no citizenship problems as her husband is Portuguese.
Strange isn't it - I wanted to stay in Germany for our daughters' education!!! It was OH's career desires that brought us back to the UK. I was so lonely when we did go back - you meet people and make friends when your children are small enough to have to be taken to the school gate and mine were past that - I only had to see them across the road and there was pavement all the way to school, about 300 yards. And I worked freelance from home with very variable hours so people thought I was being snooty.
We were lucky - we both worked briefly here and got to pension age before the UK left the EU so are fully fledged Italian pensioners and have permanent residence permission. The Italian financial contribution is minimal - don't actually know if I get any - but we have healthcare which is worth so much! I had many sleepless nights at BoJo's insistence we would be out in the March before I was 67 in the August! There is no way we could find somewhere as ideal as here - a short almost flat walk into the village with supermarket, butcher, baker, 2x banks, post office and pharmacy, 3 bars/restaurants, 10 minute drive to the hospital with a 24/7 emergency department. An integrated bus and train service from the village. What more could we want?
I'm currently living in The Netherlands as an expat from the UK and I was diagnosed with PMR in June. Actually it was pretty much a self-diagnosis because my mother had it when she was about the same age. I started off on 20mg of pred & I'm now down to10mg with no problems. I've got to say that I've been impressed with the medical treatment I've received. The Dutch health system is generally recognised as being one of the best around, but you probably know that.
On the question of COVID, I wasn't keen on the idea of taking steroids in the current climate but I didn't really have any choice. It's certainly true that the Dutch have adopted a more relaxed attitude to the virus than some countries (“intelligent lockdown” they called it). I was surprised that I could visit the hospital without face covering even though it's required on public transport. I don't feel at any great risk but I try to practise social distancing as much as possible. It probably depends where you are, though. It's easier to do in some areas than in the likes of Amsterdam & Rotterdam.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
I agree with PMRPro re the vaccine and being a coronvirus , it may never completely work..but there is still hope. Qld Uni's vaccine apparently is looking hopeful and the Chinese are thinking they may have one that works? Good luck with whatever you decide from me too. Holland does have a great health system at least as far as thyroid problems are concerned.. probably the top in the world some of docs there!..so likley the same with PMR too.
Wait
If it were me I' wait until after winter.. give some time for any vaccine, even if it justhelps and wait to see how Europe goes thru winter.. if all is the improved by February, you will know by then...
Make your plans and then pick your time. I have only travelled through France and the rockies and I loved every minute, but, my heart still lifts when I go from Sheffield to the Peak District or travel through the Yorkshire Dales. Not to mention the A66 very early on an October morning.
An earlier answer was so right about the heart. This is where memories return when times are so hard..
I want to thank alllll of you for your responses, too many to reply to individually!!! This conversation has greatly assisted me in my decision and yes it will be after their winter we finally got ourselves organised. We all have choices every day and are our own biggest barrier to move on....
All the very best for all of you, you are very very gracious in your replies.💐💐💐💐💐💐🎶🎶🎶
I've seen three studies. There were small studies in Boston and Spain that found that those with auto immune diseases were 3 times more likely to end up in the hospital with a severe case. However, a study done in Italy, a much larger study, found the strongest correlations ( with poor outcomes) were age and comorbidities, as opposed to auto immune diseases specifically.
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