Covid 19 chat Sunday 22nd March: You are all aware... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk
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Covid 19 chat Sunday 22nd March

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator

You are all aware of the most recent news concerning covid and we have given you lots of links for more info if needed so we have decided to leave it up to you all to decide what it is you want to discuss in relation to the virus today. Just be mindful of other peoples nationality and the actions of their countries governments. Not everyone is lucky enough to have BJ as prime minister!! YBB

HERE IS THE UPDATED READING ABOUT COVID 19 THAT HERONNS HAS BEEN COLLATING. Please look here for information as it is updated regularly..

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

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54 Replies
oldestnewest

The article in this link may frighten or upset some people, but you need to know what's coming. This is about the US, which is 7-10 days ahead of the UK on the curve...

Please self-isolate without delay. Protect yourselves.

msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-ha...

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Yes blunt but some people just dont understand subtle. I got told today that a co op food store in the city was heaving with people all day as was the big clothes store Next! What is urgent about clothes? Apparently Next big chiefs insist on opening and expect staff to work. The manager told people that her husband has a pace maker yet she had to work. She had a member of staff squirting all customers on entry!! Would love to have seen that!! YBB

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Yellowbluebell

The big stores should be setting an example. It's a wonder they weren't having covid sale. Let's face it most of the people who shop next have the skills to shop online...lots of jobs picking and packing for non isolated.

scats
scats
in reply to Poopadoopy

I wonder if it's a reflex action.

Next has a sale.....I must see what they have.

The sun is out on saturday.........we go to the beach, get your things!

Whatever, the behaviour yesterday was irresponsible in the extreme. These people have a steep learning curve and you get the impression they are not used to learning.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to scats

I would like all the idiots to be locked away, and the rest of my street to be kept in for an hour so I could let the dog out ....

scats
scats
in reply to Poopadoopy

Remember Bee's post, set it running up and down stairs, but you may have to fashion a nappy pretty soon if you haven't a garden.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to scats

I do fortunately have a garden and have completed. I may go and finished laying the weed cloth. It does give her bad foot a chance. She has never been a good climb so stairs our now she has arthritis in right shoulder. I was throwing the ball round and she skidded on the tiles last night pulling up early...she just lay there winded for 15 seconds then brought the ball...took the biscuit back to her bed. She seems ok. So it's going to be a shorter inside run limited to carpet room. My poor old girl. I think the lack of exercise with see her off I am afraid. Lost lots of muscle.

scats
scats
in reply to Poopadoopy

Poor old thing sounds like one of us.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to scats

Yes. I wish I hadn't cut her fur...doesn't look like her!!!😂😉😂

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to scats

Except when animals are in pain they can be put down YBB!!

I'm not going to be put down yet. Ask me again when this is over.

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to scats

Not you but i have a list!! My spa using, scrotum showing judge is top!!

You're going to be asked to explain that one!

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to scats

🤪😜😂

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to scats

He is probably having trouble finding sonewhere to display as health club shut!!

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to scats

I remember the post ...

scats
scats
in reply to PMRpro

It does leave a strong image in the mind. I'd just got rid of it and she mentions him agatn!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to scats

Must be like the bloke in nott city centre just stands around in white cycling shorts....but are not cycling proofed...so very thin material....yuk!

How small is the garden ?

Could you not put her on the lead and walk her around in between beds or garden chairs for a bit of variety .

I know you and the dog may feel a bit like rats in a maze in comparison to the park but if you can't get down to your usual walk without ruining your social isolation it may be something for now.

Poor pooch xx

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

I may try tomorrow as hopefully fewer people but I can't take her I. The car, see people and turn round. She would go mental. I need to stretch my self out too.

It’s mad isn’t it? Who needs a new outfit at the moment? 🌸

A new version of the library of links to covid-related items plus a new section of things to do and learn. Enjoy!

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

Rose54
Rose54
in reply to HeronNS

As far as I am concerned the sooner BJ tells the UK we are in lockdown the better .

Despite warnings from him not to visit Mothers today so many are

B & Q, Curry's ,Dunelm care parks full yesterday .

My Daughter is a hair dresser in a small country village lots of thier customers have cancelled appointments.

So what happens her boss is going to do home visits .Only worried about her business losing money not the welfare of her customers.

Just like Fast food places and Cafes what are thay doings just causing more people to be near each other.

Money Money Money

scats
scats
in reply to Rose54

I agree he must put it in words of one syllable and not leave any doubt about it being an order, not a choice. I know my sister in law will expect to be made a fuss of today, she thinks I'm causing unnecessary panic.

Keep safe Rose.

Highlandtiger
Highlandtiger
in reply to scats

Did she listen to the doctor's interview that piglette posted yesterday that I know you and I both shared...? How can anyone seriously think you're causing unnecessary panic when they’ve heard that?

scats
scats
in reply to Highlandtiger

I don't know she's gone to earth, but her daughter heard it. She was already aware as she has friends in NHS

scats
scats
in reply to Highlandtiger

Her name is nolonger in any of the groups!

At Risk or Not . Be a Hero , Stay at Home !

Joanbill13
Joanbill13
in reply to scats

I’ve got friends like that. They’ve been carrying as normal and are 70. “It won’t beat us”

Rose54
Rose54
in reply to scats

You too

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Rose54

Omg....it's stupid....

This is an interesting read. I don’t access the Times online very often as there is a paywall. But you can register to view 2 articles free every week which is what I’ve done. This article is being mentioned by so many reputable commentators this morning that I felt it was worth looking at. It outlines the reasons behind the change in thinking on the herd immunity experiment and who was behind it. The link is attached for those who want to read it. It is not overtly political. The government gets both credit and criticism but in what is a factual and balanced way.

For those who don’t/can’t access it here are a couple of tasters....

'The meeting that will change British society for a generation took place on the evening of Thursday, March 12. That was when the strategic advisory group of experts (Sage in Whitehall parlance), the government’s committee of scientists and medics, gathered to examine modelling from experts at Imperial College London and other institutions.'

The results were shattering. A week earlier, councils had been warned to expect about 100,000 deaths from Covid-19. Now Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, realised the estimates were wrong.

“Unmitigated, the death number was 510,000,” a senior figure said. “Mitigated we were told it was going to be 250,000. Once you see a figure of take no further action and a quarter of a million people die, the question you ask is, ‘What action?’”

There is also a really clear visual version of the graph of the 'curve ball' in the article which is easy to understand.

The article also includes this nugget.....

'Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide, became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and the UK developed “herd immunity”.

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.'

thetimes.co.uk/edition/news...

Edit: for the sake of transparency and completeness I should say that I have just seen online that an unnamed ‘Downing Street spokesman' has just put out a statement denying the truth of (some of) the content of the Sunday Times article.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Highlandtiger

Bet they have. I couldn't believe the "herd immunity" concept - you might do it with chicken pox (as we used to) once you knew all about the virus but not with a brand new one. Even seasonal flu in the first trimester can cause thalidomide-like deformities, deafness and blindness in the foetus. Maybe CV will too. Herd immunity has never been used with a disease, just with vaccines and that is where the MMR is hitting now, herd immunity isn;t being achieved in some populations.

I sat open mouthed as some of that came out - I don't care whose idea it was, it was mooted. And that the CSA and CMO didn't say much was as much an inditement of them as anyone else.

My daughter works for Fat Face,they have closed.My daughter in law works in an independent gift shop in Cornwall,they have closed,who wants to buy clothes and gifts!

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to Sandradsn

According to our local Next store it would seem half the city!! Apparently they were heaving in there yesterday along with the co op near by. I didn't actually see it just got told by someone. Clothes are so important obviously!!

The UK Goverment advice on shielding states:-

"People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection"

What does this equate to in amount of daily steroids/prednisilone? Does anybody know?

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Theziggy

I believe a rheumatologist was quoted on one of the earlier threads (which have been linked in my two posts where I tried to gather pertinent posts from the forum). If I remember correctly they said they had less worry for patients under 5 mg, but were more concerned with those over 10 mg. Worth having a look back at the posts. You'll find link to my second one in this post, and that includes a link to the first where you should find that info. Mind you, that is just the opinion of one rheumatologist, but these professionals do have experience of how their patients fare at different dose levels.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Theziggy

The post HeronNS mentions is one of mine

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

but the official advice seems to be 10mg and above.

I think there was a post on covid thread a couple of days ago about one health professionals opinion on what constituted high risk in regards dose size. Have a look back through the posts and i will try and find it as well. YBB

It is in my list. At least I thought it was. Hmmm.

I’m not convinced that there’s any strong evidence to determine high risk in relation to dose size. There are so many variables; how long on steroids for starters. The predominant message SHOULD be; if you take steroids, your immune system is compromised. Your risk (of infection and how your body responds)is increased. End of.

I started on pred in July 2018. 15mg decreasing, sensibly. I picked up a chest infection in Nov 2018. I thought I was relatively fit, well nourished etc etc. Hand on heart, it was the worst chest infection I’ve suffered , ever. I couldn’t breathe, spent 2 weeks sitting up in bed, sounded like Darth Vader and felt really ill. Ok, it was probably a nasty bug, but there were a couple of times when I wondered if I’d get through it. I took antibiotics ( first time in over 30 years) and maybe they helped. Who knows.

The point is, Corvid19 is very much unknown. But we do know it attacks the lungs in a specific way. We also know the death rate is greater with age and that there’s no effective treatment other than breathing support to allow the body to respond and heal. Current evidence from Italy suggests most in intensive care don’t recover.

Steroids suppress the immune response. If, knowing that, you’re happy to play with your life, then that’s fine. But I’d rather be a life than a deceased medical statistic. That’s my (limited) choice.

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to phoenix22

I didnt say that i agreed or disagreed whether there was any connection between levels of pred and risk of covid. What i did do was answer a question stating there was a post on the thread about it. What anyone takes from that post is up to them and it certainly doesnt imply my agreement. YBB

Sorry YBB, my post wasn’t personally critical. I agree with your valid points. There’s just so much that’s unclear.

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to phoenix22

I agree there is so much info around and a lot of it is pointless and some downright dangerous. Thats why we check posts we ourselves are putting up and ask that forum users provide links when posting to allow others check. We post items from respected and/or experienced doctors and scientists but its up to the individual to decide what they want to believe. By keeping it on one thread each day also helps people find things they want although the thread is becoming a bit unwieldy by night time!! Keep safe. YBB

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to phoenix22

Yes...I am sure you understand that this is mainly because it IS unclear. Often we are asked questions about covid we just don't know the answers to. In fact I suspect no one really does yet. It's frustrating for everyone I think and I am afraid we might have to live with uncertainty for a while yet.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to phoenix22

What we have said on here is the best available advice from the NHS and rheumatology experts. They, unlike some politicians, have chosen to err on the side of caution. But with the best will in the world we can't offer more than that.

Hmm, am down to 11mg (again) but have flared quite badly, mostly my left hand for the past three days, so upped to 20mgs without much noticeable improvement, though that said, I don't know how bad the flare would have been had I stuck to 11mg. Hand is still, swollen, red and painful. Doesn't usually last quite that long. Might be subconsciously stressing about CoVid19?

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to Theziggy

Perhaps you should put up a separate post about that to get more advice xx

Theziggy
Theziggy
in reply to Blearyeyed

Oh the hand and other joints is a flare up of Palindromic Rheumatism. I know this site is PMR not PR, but you are such experts on tapering and steroids etc, plus, there are virtually no forums for PR.

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to Theziggy

Do you find the Pred generally helps with it , or the symptoms are the same as they usually are for a Flare of your PR?

If it's worse or different and the Pred isn't helping you might need to have or increase other medication or it might be worth asking for a GP phone call just for a little extra advice.

If a higher dose of steroids isn't what this Flare up really needs you to do Medicinally , in this current crisis it would be worth not being on the higher dose.

Have you tried other pain relief or extra treatment like heat or ice , or compression/ arthritis gloves to also help it?

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Theziggy

I suspect so...us it a patter you get with PR? All sorts of daft and painful things happen from stress. Is there something apart from pred you have used in the past. I don't know how high 20mg is for your condition. The rule of thumb here as you know is we often try a blast for a week so we can go back down straightaway. But I don't know how it figures in.

The Government response in terms of additional funding for NHS is positive, but assuming the current crisis settles at some point, I sincerely hope the UK electorate will be asking some pertinent questions about health care.

In coming weeks, I suspect some of us will face the reality of how this illness really affects the life of those close to us. The reality is stark. I know we’re all aware of National rheumy shortages and other pressures. But, I was horrified to learn that there are currently 60 palliative care consultant vacancies in the UK. I don’t know how this breaks down by health board, but it’s truly shocking. These are posts where people will determine our care and quality of end of life at some point. We should be demanding to know what’s going so wrong that we can’t fill these, and hundreds of other healthcare posts.

End of rant. 😀👍

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to phoenix22

Have you not looked at the number of nursing vacancies?

"We should be demanding to know what’s going so wrong that we can’t fill these, and hundreds of other healthcare posts."

It is well over 15 years of year on year budget cuts. My husband retired early because he couldn't cope with the having to cut posts to manage to see patients in his department. That was 10 years ago - it was going on before but it was already down to the bone then. And for 10 years healthcare workers have had no pay rises until last year. They have left for all sorts of reasons. And the b-word was the crowning glory. Staff from the EU left and came home because they didn't feel wanted and were being abused by patients,

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