I know I should know this but just to confirm getting the flu jab is not a problem for those with PMR is it? I do sometimes wonder what kicked off my PMR and all I can think of is having the flu jab a few weeks before hand....what do you think?
Thanks.
This question has been asked a lot on the forum and the general consensus is that getting the flu jab is not a problem.
I have never heard it suggested as a trigger for PMR though.
Maybe I am coming up with excuses as to why I got PMR....
My PMR started shortly after the flu jab and I did wonder if the two were related
Me too
Me, too!
As long as the vaccine is not a live one then you should be fine.
The flu vaccine is usually made with killed virus so it should not be a problem. There is a potential issue with the fact that it is stimulating the immune system but as a bout of flu is probably loads worse than a few days of flulike aches and pains I think the choice is pretty clear. I checked what was in the flu shot given in Nova Scotia last year (this year's info not posted yet) and none of the flu vaccines included an adjuvant, not even the "extra strength" one given to people in long term care facilities. I expect similar vaccines are offered all over the Northern hemisphere.
Yes it´s the adjuvants in vaccines that many thinks trigger deceases. - good thing nothing bad is in yours. - they can be horrible ...
The only reason that getting the flu jab may be a problem is that it seems there is going to be a shortage!! This may get worse with B*e*i* .
Some shortages of meds already in the UK according to the news
There is an HRT problem, but I think that is a particular one not a general one, have you heard if any others?
Mycophenolate by Zentiva - pharmacies say they can't get it, manufacturers insist there isn't a problem. It matters because others make people ill.
It is possible the flu jab was the straw that broke the camel's back and sent your immune system haywire. But it could equally well have been you getting the flu because you didn't have the jab. Or something else that coincided with it.
But I have my flu jab every year - it may not be perfect but it does reduce the risk of getting it a bit.
Always appreciate your advise. Thanks. X
And "they" do say if you do get the flu anyway it is likely to be a less serious case than without the shot.
Yes, I got flu this year (first time ever) - about 3 weeks after a hip replacement (no connection, other than I was obviously “a bit low” following surgery) - it only lasted about 24hours, but I still felt dreadful! Goodness know what I would have been like if I hadn’t had vaccine.
Thanks for everyone’s excellent comments. It’s a boost just reading everyone’s thoughts.
Yes I agree it is very disturbing. I think vaccines can save lives if they could only make it without the adjuvants. The toxic aluminum not to mention formaldehyde, mercury and aborted human fetal tissue and all the other stuff does not sound good to me. I think you are right about the 'new improved' vaccination. I will rather take my chances with the flu.
Aborted human foetal tissue is not and never has been used in vaccines:
lozierinstitute.org/use-of-...
See Q3a and 3b
The derivation of the historical cell lines mentioned is something different.
Great article - thanks. So monkey cells and insects yes. Seems to work better with that. To fight ebola everything goes, but the flu ....maybe not.....probably a matter of opinion....
If you eat anything that's processed at all it is allowed to have a percentage of insect bits in it as like bacteria they are everywhere. I have to forget that as someone who likes peanut butter. You may be veggie (I am...30yrs), however I fail to see the difference between cows and monkeys if you consume one then why not the other. Everyone has to make a decision with their conscience and draw their line somewhere I suppose.😊
No I don´t eat anything processed, but I´m not a veggie either. I do think it sounds better to eat insects than haveing them injected. Yes it is probably a matter of personal choice from some information and the feelings you have.
No herbs or spices, vinegars, pickles etc?
Hi Miss.,
I would venture to guess you have never had true influenza. If you have had it, and still prefer the illness to protection...i hope you survive the next infection.
I have had influenza, spent 2 weeks in hospital, developed pneumonia, and had a 6 month recovery time.
It is a very serious illness, and as elderly individuals with auto-immune disorders, we are particularly susceptible to the severity of influenza.
I am headed to get my 35th flu jab today.
Good luck with the decision you make...
Just sayin...💃🏼
Jerri
PMR diagnosed 2013
Why not take the non-adjuvated vaccine. I have had it for 19yrs and apart from a sore arm for 24hrs I have had no ill effects.
Do you use antiperspirant deodorant?
I wipe all supermarket trollies etc with antibacterial wipes or tissue with the gel on. I then make a concerted effort not to touch my face until I can wash my hands at home. Sometimes more successful than others! Apparently some research shows we touch our lips, nose or face almost 16 to 23 times per hour. For example.....
That was why I asked - I stopped using them years ago but it wasn't long before the deo I did use came off the market and at the time it was difficult to find alternatives. That was the point I tried out no deo - has saved me a fortune over the years 
I also take a dmard so my immune system is suppressed more than just with pred. I have diabetes too. I started wiping the trolley after seeing a few people sneeze into their hands and push the trolley. It's the drs surgery and pharmacists that are places to get the most popular cold/flu virus. And yes I know anti bact wipes do nothing to viruses (in the main). Since I started doing it I haven't had colds. The one time I missed flu jab...I got flu.
Don't accept all you read in the link to natural news who say, in very small pale print:
"Truth Publishing International, LTD. is not responsible for content written by contributing authors. The information on this site is provided for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended as a substitute for professional advice of any kind. Truth Publishing assumes no responsibility for the use or misuse of this material."
There is a lot of fake news about the vaccine debate.
And just about every other medical question too.
You need to be very careful to consider where you get your information from , compare it with other comments on approved health sites , and consider your options with a relaxed , open but logical eye.
I didnt want to scare anybody off vaccines. That would be irresponsible. But when it comes to adjuvants I think it is good to have all the information you can get. And if the information isn´t correct, it is good to know that too. So a discussion is almost always good.
It seems you can get vaccines now without adjuvants. And because of this discussion we now know.
I’m rather afraid the original remarks, especially the emotive ‘fact’ that has been shown to be untrue, would have put people off vaccines. Same as happened with the false research info about MMR vaccine, which I think spread via sites like Mumsnet. Sadly the discussion would not have been seen by early viewers unless they choose to revisit the post.
The adjuvants will be subject to all legal medical testing, and any concerns flagged up will be researched. A lot changed after Thalidomide....
You can ask to have the alternative for any vaccination , and the types of needle used to inject it, if you have a good medical reason for needing these alternatives .
If your GP refuses they have to give you an appropriate reason why , which you can tell them you will be checking on independently and will make a complaint about if you are being given false medical information to uphold limits based purely on economic reason or Practice bureaucracy.
If you have a need to a medication , as treatment or a preventative measure , it is your right to get it in the form appropriate to your own medical history , no matter what excuse your Doctor might try to give you.
My PMR started after a flu shot.
I think you can ask for it on the basis that not having one at all is hard but you can't have adjuvant jab without feeling anxious it made you ill. Ask at local pharmacy too. I have had mine at Tesco pharmacy for 2 years.
You should be fine. I suppose they are limited in what changes they make to get the "contract".
The appointments go in cycles do g they..
They have made some of it back from.me for carparking!!
Dare I step into this controversy?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Not that I understand it really, but it does seem to be addressing the question.
It's far too long at this time of night for me but the most important sentence I have read so far is.....
"Individuals developing a post-vaccination chronic disease are rare when compared with the number of vaccines administered. "
I will read tomorrow, so we reserve judgement on the whole thing.
I am a retired medic with PMR - on steroids for the last 6 years. Over the years I have had > 20 ' flu jabs with only local side effects (sore arm etc), including 3 'flu jabs whilst on Pred.. Last year the NHS only provided the adjuvanted 'flu vaccine, Fluad, for those aged >65 years and I had a bad relapse of my PMR. Before the jab I was on Pred 2.5mg alt. die 3.0mg. After 6 weeks of deteriorating health I had to up my steroids to 10mg and have slowly decreased over the last 10 months to 5mg which is still nearly double my previous maintenance dose.
I believe that the adjuvant called squalene in Fluad caused the problem for me. It is possible that my reaction is what has now been called 'Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants' or ASIA syndrome - basically fatigue, myalgia and arthralgia after adjuvants, largely in people with pre-existing conditions like PMR.
I have told my GP that I will not accept any vaccine with adjuvants in future if an alternative is available - except that it may not be paid for by the NHS. Last year those under 65 got a 'flu vaccine without adjuvant. It was only recommended for older people as, in general, there is a poorer immune response in older people. However PMR sufferers have an over active immune response which is being suppressed by steroids - so it makes no sense to me to 'gigger up' the immune response with adjuvant and then have to increase the steroid dose to suppress my immune response.
My summary is that one 'flu jab is not the same as the next and, for me, adjuvant appears to be a problem.
I have written this up in a review and submitted it for publication. I can forward the link if it is accepted.
Thanks so much. So I am going to insist on a flu vaccine without adjuvant (I think the 2019 flu vaccine has squalene). Not 65 yet though so not sure they will give it to me. I would be happy to pay for it.
Brilliant info. Really don't want to upset my already troubled immune system.
Thanks again. Have a good day.
Thanks for this reply. After reading everything I could find about the 65+ vaccine last year I decided it was not sensible, as you say, to 'ginger up the immune response' and requested the other option. I had no adverse reaction, nor did I have flu. Hope to do the same this year.
Yes please do. It is very important we get all the information possible. Brilliant reply thanks. To get the right vaccine could save some a lot of trouble.
The issue of adjuvants has been discussed on other threads and the information re them stimulating the immune system is very, very easy to find via Google and peer reviewed research is available and contextualised by embedding it in the existing research. My advice is same as always re meds....do your research, read the patient info leaflet. If a site says it's for "entertainment" purposes in its blurb, or is a "vlog/blog" perhaps it's not a rigorous research source. I can set up a website and say what I want and make it look professional as can anyone with the skills.
Mpearl, I just wondered if you could tell us what your medical experience is and where you are intending to submit the research.🌻
It's not such a "dumb" question is it. 🤣🤣🤣
I can’t help wondering too. At the time I didn’t like the idea of giving us oldies an adjuvant and queried it but was pushed into having it with “ oh it will boost your immune system. “. Hmmmmm!
Seven months later PMR
However my Mum had Polymyositis and our son is type 1 diabetic so auto immune is defo in the family. Who knows?
Thanks Susi,, I will look at it.
I just use various search terms around adjuvant...side effects, immune system etc and I came up with several research articles. Then if course it's a case of asking who said what and why! If I can I find a "review" of a subject as it offers ideas from multiple sides so you can fully assess the evidence. I had to do this sort of rigorous searching for my job when I worked so I find it relatively easy to find stuff. Whether I can understand the more medical and technical papers is another matter!🙄😂😂😂
You will only know if you have the vaccine ,l am sure it is usually OK.and of course flu itself is a bad illness to get not only for us but anybody else . I have heard of Statins possibly triggering PMR,but not the flu jab .
Do they have compromised immune systems though?
I was asking about the people you mentioned who didn't have problems with the flu jab with adjuvants?
Yes - this forum has a really irritating nesting format so that a question/comment ends up miles away from the relevant comment.
That's right - but when you are the one it is a bit late ...
Just read it all. The problem is that if Pred has lowered our immune system, do we now need the adjuvant in the flu vaccine to protect us? Or will it fight with the spread and cause further trouble? Oh bugger!!!!!!!!
The problem has been that your immune system was being hyperactive - and the pred has calmed it down. The concern is that the adjuvants stimulate the immune system more to produce the antibodies to protect from flu or whatever - our immune system normally becomes less reactive as we age anyway. If the immune system is already known to be malfunctioning - there must be a high chance that kicking it hard might result in an overreaction.
I think we should get the FLU injection WITHOUT adjuvants (which stimulate the PMR). Or can.
I agree. Jab on 7th Oct, still stiff 1 Nov. Had got 'better' with methotrexate - PMA and Inflam arthritis was controlled.
I looked up the Flu info on the NHS website. There appeared to be 2 versions or possibly it was changed.
Over 65s this year supposed to be a choice, trivalent protects against 3 types flu and had immune booster, quadrivalent 4 types flu only. BUT when I asked our surgery, only trivalent was ordered last year, so I gave in.
I want a bath, nearly got stuck yesterday!! Too stiff 1st thing.
Under 65s don't have to suffer this. What do the supermarkets offer - I'd rather pay and avoid the aggro as I'm 24/7 carer (with good support from carers) for husband with Huntingtons and risk was too great.
This was my 2nd flu jab, last year took 3 weeks to recover, now I'll be asking Rheuma advice about Metho levels, which I'd managed to reduce since June.
Carol
Hi sq, if you look closely you can see who the reply is to there's an arrow and then the person's name. If there's no arrow and name then the reply is to the first post. It can be confusing. If I see an arrow and name I scroll up until I find the name and seewhat they said then just read the back and forth to that message. It's supposed to be nested but it's not clear on my phone . Tablet is clearer.
You could go to a pharmacist and ask for the vaccine you want? You may have to pay for it but they may be more flexible than your surgery.
I have a prescription to pick up today and will ask if flu jab there yet. I will ask if >65 can have <65 injection, and if paying makes a difference. I will add answer to the thread I posted about flu jab.
I know! Doctors are becoming as rare as hen's teeth! Good luck on your quest! 
It's soooo typical. The flu jab person wasn't there and it's a couple of weeks away!! I will be exploring further afield. 😆
I quizzed the nurse who was in a real hurry to vac me.
I said is the NHS wanting to kill all us oldies off ha ha.
Little did I know!!!
She said it was Fluad to protect my immune system. I t seemed like a good idea at the time
I talked to a pharmacist today. I explained about PMR etc and asked about fluad....she said she would recommend it as pred will be suppressing immune system so it's needs adjuvant to work effectively. Having said that if I were over 65 I would be still asking question up to a needle being stuck in me!!
I tried to refuse the trivalent, 2 types supposed to be for over 65s, only the immune booster one was available, so only that one is given to over 65s this year.
I read up the NHS website info, tried to explain to Dr, Dr not interested. I wonder if they don't have time to think outside the box. I'm 67, why the change at 65 anyway. Is the trivalent with immune booster more pushed by reps, cheaper or what? They just think flu, can cause severe problems, so a flu jab must be OK - but which one?
My family is riddled with autoimmune problems, RA , thyroid problems and diabetes in various forms. I'm a retired and have time to research things that affect me. I want to keep mobile as long as possible and this flu jab has put me back 3 years.
Good luck and sympathy to everyone else suffering this extra aggro. It ain't funny.
COVID vaccine question 
Not a question, more a sharing 
Flu jab if you are in remission?
Is it GCA or not that is the question 
