In a clinical trial assessing three levels of daily vitamin D supplementation -- 400 IU, 4,000 IU, and 10,000 IU -- radial volumetric bone mineral density (BMD) was significantly lower among those (ages 55-70) taking higher doses for 3 years.
Note that the appropriate interpretation of this study per the authors is that for maintenance of bone quality in healthy vitamin D-sufficient adults, these results do not support a skeletal benefit of vitamin D doses well above the recommended dietary allowance."
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gifford7
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Oh goody, more confusion... shucks! Interesting on rise in intestinal calcium absorption. But it apparently doesn’t go to help bone density. I’m currently taking 2,000mg D3. To take or not to take. Seeing new rheumy on Tuesday. Wonder what he’ll have to say? More research needed... lol
in reply to
The research is based on otherwise healthy people. Because of steroids leeching calcium from diet we need extra help to help bone health. A supplement of d3 helps support absorption of calcium.
I don't think any of us should ever have believed that Vitamin D directly makes bones stronger. Its function is to help the body absorb calcium. It in turn does not even send calcium to the bones. It is Vitamin K2 and magnesium and probably other micronutrients which do that. I would like to know the context of the study. I'd like to know if the subjects were taking the other nutrients needed to improve bone strength. Also it used healthy people who already had good Vitamin D status. Please note the study specifically excluded people who had osteoporosis. So I think we can ignore this study as it is not relevant to those in our position.
Please dont take this report as a reason to just stop.taking Vit D. If you feel you want to do this then please take advice from your gp or health care provider first. YBB
I get my d3 level checked at least once a year. I have been taking lots of d3 for many years and last year was my first blood test and my level was extremely high. I decreased the dose for a month and retook the test and my level came down. I continued to reduce and the next month it was normal. Now i take 500-1,000mg daily.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the comment you included.
This is a study , by the sound of things , that deals with adult individuals whom are,
" vitamin D sufficient" , therefore it is proof that extra vitamin D beyond the normal daily intake isn't necessary for healthy individuals.
In other words , if you are a healthy adult , there is no benefit in taking extra Vitamin D in supplements as a preventative measure to delay loss of bone density. In fact , in normal Vitamin D sufficient adults taking too much Vitamin D that you cannot use can be toxic.
Things are somewhat different for adults with Chronic and Inflammatory conditions , however.
They are often Vitamin D deficient because coping with inflammation and drug metabolism uses up more of the Vitamin D reserves in the body. This can , over time , cause a reduction in bone health as Calcium is not being metabolised and absorbed as efficiently as before because Vitamin D is being used for other causes and levels become low.
A large number of people with Chronic illness test Vitamin D 'insufficient' or 'deficient' when they are eventually tested . This insufficiency does add to problems in bone and cardiac health.
That is why it is important for those on long term steroid regimes with inflammation to take up the option of Vitamin D supplements , especially as our GPs are not allowed to test your Vitamin D levels more than once a year under NHS rules , even if you are proved Vitamin D deficient , the system unfortunately makes it more complicated to monitor your levels and pick and choose when you take the supplements.
My sister was very depressed and sleepy recently, she also had terrible memory problems. I told her to get VitD and B12 tested, receptionist said Vit D was normal, I said ring back and ask for the result, it was 45 , not normal at all!....lowest reading should be 50 I think...I had to take her to the doctor because of being so depressed, she agreed with me this wasn`t "normal"....my sister is vegetarian bordering on vegan, no oily fish, no eggs etc....so obviously this hasn`t helped with the depression, but after 4 weeks of VitD she has improved quite a lot with tiredness/memory etc. Doctor said she will always have to take a daily reasonable dose. Having RA is such a battle for her living alone....but just this has helped....
Yes it is important , and people with RA , do suffer from the same Vitamin deficiencies as us because of their inflammation and drug needs.
Does you sister take a daily full vitamin and mineral supplement?
That is even more important for people on a vegetarian or vegan diet with Chronic Illness.
Did they decide to give her extra Vitamin B as well?
It does sound like a sensible option , a number of my vegetarian friends have had to have those injections because of their joint issues as Vitamin B deficiency can make pain worse with conditions like RA .
If she is also eating less dairy products it might be a good idea for her to have a bone scan too , and maybe you could persuade her to increase her consumption of dairy products and eggs and things like green leafy vegetables , peppers, bananas , pulses , garlic and olive oil to help reduce both RA and Depressive symptoms.
Thanks for all of that, I will ask my sister, but I`m pretty sure she doesn't get VIT B she has to buy her VITD even though on mobility benefits....good thing they are cheap...I think her GP is pretty useless, she more or less has to beg for blood tests....she is regularly checked in other ways at the hospital every 3 months because she has developed "sticky blood" ….
She also takes Thyroxine...
She is now realising how much her diet impacts on her health...…Thanks again...
You are on the right path with everything that you have said and that is most probably why I was directed towards vitamin D as I was diagnosed with an inflammatory condition. Not that the GP's in my town picked it up I had to go to Melbourne and had blood tests outside the square otherwise I would never have known about it.
Fortunately I read about Tumeric and it's healing powers I started taking it about 2 years ago and it has changed my life for the better well I say it is a miracle spice for me as if you knew how I felt after all these years it is unbelievable if you go to this website info@turmericforhealth.com you can read all about it.
I use Turmeric, not specifically for joint inflammation , but it definitely has improved my gastric issues and IBS. I really feel the difference on my digestion within a few days of not taking it , more so than with my actual medication. I didn't find it made any difference to me to my level of joint or Neuralgic pain though.
I also take garlic supplements to help with circulation and as part of immunity defence , and again do feel a difference in nerve pain and circulation if I stop having them.
Everyone just has to check with these sorts of supplements that they can be used by them with their individual health issues or drugs but then supplements are often better prevention than resorting to pharmaceutical cures later on.
I think it's pretty disgusting that Doctors are not more clued up on nutritional health and encouraged to do more comprehensive blood tests for nutrient deficiencies , both as a monitoring tool in the older population and early on when all patients first present for diagnosis with things like chronic joint pain and Fatigue .
More often than not when patients with Chronic Health issues do finally get a Vitamin D test they are low or deficient in Vitamin D and there have been plenty of studies over the years proving the correlation between low Vitamin D and Chronic Pain and Inflammatory Conditions . You would think the use of this test , and that for B Vitamins and Essentials salts like Magnesium and Potassium , would have become as important a diagnostic tool as Full Blood Count , Iron and Folic Acid by now.
Especially as improving your nutritional levels can have a huge impact on how well you respond to treatments and reduce the overall doseage or time required of many pain medications that you prescribed.
I read all about turmeric and actually ingested it daily for about 3 months. No help whatever. Then I checked to see if people in countries where turmeric is a part of their daily diet get less RA or other inflammatory diseases. They have the same prevalence of the diseases that we have. Glad for me personally as I hate the taste, makes me nauseous and I have RA and PMR.
It is used beyond cooking. My neighbour told me that all her elderly relatives in Pakistan have a warm milk with turmeric in it for "aches and pains". I can tolerate it in recipes but the supplement form gave me a bad tummy. I have thought about trying fresh tumeric to see if that is more palatable made in a drink.
Yes some people do respond to the supplements like that.
I only take pure turmeric as the added black pepper can irritate the stomach and I take one capsule a day rather than the two recommended , as I did find that it could give a loose tummy with two.
The drink is called , ' Golden Milk' and often also includes , honey , cinnamon and ginger and sometimes green cardamom . You can have it add bedtime and add raw unsweetened cocoa to it to make it more tasty and increase the antioxidants.
Cinnamon is a newer spice to begin gaining interest in medical research for its benefit as a recommended supplement too. I started reading some articles on it last week so will let you know what I discover.
The UK and US/ Canada seem much further behind in prescribed use of supplements in long term care of many chronic health issues than many European Countries , like Sweden , Holland and in the Middle East.
As I said to Poopadoop, the average for RA in India (where I started looking), is about 1%, the same as nearly every nation on the planet. And I (secretly) wondered how much was really being reported as women are the main sufferers and women do not always enjoy the same level of value as in western countries. Even here in Canada and in Britain I have read so many accounts of fellow sufferers being blown off by doctors, some of whom still treat women like they all have screws loose somewhere. Personal thoughts and opinions here. I do not want to bite the hand that feeds me (information)😊
"The annual incidence of rheumatoid arthritis (RA) has been reported to be around 40 per 100,000. The disease prevalence is about 1 percent in Caucasians but varies between 0.1 percent (in rural Africans) and 5 percent (in Pima, Blackfeet, and Chippewa Indians) [3,4]. Women are affected two to three times more often than men." (source Uptodate)
It would be interesting to know more in-depth numbers and whether there have been changes in places that are undergoing social, medical and cultural change; e.g as life expectancy changes, changes in family structure anD/or migration from rural to urban setting for work.
I always test Vit D sufficient, before and after GCA. But then, it's the same for CRP & SED for me. Either they aren't testing correctly or I'm a weirdo. 😂
Hi there I am not the best of pill takers if they are not in front me - if they are out of sight they are out of mind : a Pharmacist who actually appears on Radio and TV in Australia has a great following told me personally to take 2 Vitamen D 3 tablets a day but then I may not take them fore three days apart all depends - I had a bone density done just over two years ago came back ok and had another one just a couple of weeks ago and the Dr. told me that I hadn't changed and I am close to 80 - I don't take any other supplements perhaps magnesium every now and again and of course the TABLET Thyroxine I don't forget it as I have been religiously taking it for over 40 years. so these days I have got to the stage where I go with my gut feeling these days. I suggest you ask your Pharmacist if you have any worries they know more about drugs than the Doctors.
Yes, he was in a very large Boots!...my sister has it for her RA pain, and when I told him what other meds she takes, because of starting VItD, he hadn`t heard of it and asked me to spell it!.... sadly nothing surprises me anymore, which is why I double check things myself!...
"Therefore, the appropriate interpretation of this study is that for maintenance of bone quality in healthy vitamin D-sufficient adults, these results do not support a skeletal benefit of vitamin D doses well above the recommended dietary allowance."
which makes this rather redundant on this forum. We never suggest vit D supplementation at that level anyway, with perhaps 2000 IU being the maximum, and do say getting the blood level checked is important to be sure you are replete. If you are - you don't need extra.
Added to which, being on pred suppresses the blood level of vit D. That is why we need it.
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