Calceos Vit C and D

[survivalist]

There seems to be a question mark with me and Calceus

I was prescribed it to begin with on 40mg pred by the GP. Then the R-consultant has also put Calcium and vitamin D on as part of the medication. Which kind of seemed logical at the time on 60mg of pred. But now probably for all the right reasons …..

I just looked at my details online and the medication has now been stopped by someone.

And I have been called in to an appointment.

So what, where, why, when, where do I discover all about Calcium and Vitamin D ?

So I can ask the right questions because I've been called in to see a clinical pharmacist. If any of you know me by now you will know I like to do at least a post doctoral degree on which socks to wear first.

So please tell me anything ps including the socks if you like.

[MhairiP]

Your post made me laugh - like you, I practically study for a post-doctoral degree before going for a medical appointment!

I'm sorry, I can't help you (because I don't have a post-doc degree in calcium & vit D) but I just wanted to let you know your post made me chuckle! 🤣 I'm sure someone will be along to advise you soon.

[CT-5012]

Had to laugh but I also like to have all my ducks in a row. It’s usual to have calcium, vit D &K prescribed unless there are contra indications. It’s not a good idea to take pred and calcium at the same time - they don’t play well together. Best wishes.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Probably some officious non-medically qualified person who has been tasked with saving money has seen it "Oooooh, a SUPPLEMENT - we don't need to pay for giving patients THEM - delete... Better discuss stopping the other stuff though - it sounds medical."

Have you had a dexascan? Do you know your baseline bone density? Are you on anything else for "bones"? Have you had your calcium and vit D blood levels checked? These are all yes/no responses - no research required - yet!

What do you want to know about calcium/vit D? Other than you need adequate vit D to absorb calcium. And you need calcium because pred makes you lose more through the kidneys than usual so calcium supplements make sure there is plenty around reducing the likelihood that the body will leach calcium from the bones to keep the blood level up - low calcium levels are not good for the body, especially the heart, so the range in the blood is pretty narrrowly controlled: if it gets low the body picks it up from bones, supplementing calcium stops that. A study showed that calcium supplements reduce the risk of developing osteoporosis in patients on steroids. And if you happen to have been put onto a bisphosphonate it is even more important your calcium and vit D levels are adequate as the bisphosphonate will lead to a low blood calcium if they aren't. They should have been checked and sorted out if necessary before taking the first tablet.

[CT-5012 in reply to PMRpro]

Recent report of research into osteoporosis in cyclists found one male with normal levels of calcium and vit D also had osteoporosis, fell off his bike and fractured pelvis and other smaller bits. Not a pro an amateur racer.

[survivalist in reply to PMRpro]

Thanks I'm just beginning to make sense of it , maybe.

They want more blood tests same day just before the clinical pharmacists wants to see me.

The R-consultant requested a bone density scan about 10 days ago but I have not had this yet so I'm assuming that's the Dexascan. Nothing else for my bones at the moment, they are huge ! Not a joke they are much larger than average as it happens. There has been no check on calcium or Vit D levels but maybe the extra blood tests are just that.

I like “they should have been checked and sorted out if necessary before taking the first tablet”

As its a long term supplement issue that makes sooo much sense.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to survivalist]

Have they done a blood calcium level recently?

[survivalist in reply to PMRpro]

Never been checked for calcium in my blood unless tapping my knees with one of those little reflex hammers was testing for brittle bones OR I missed what one of the blood tubes was for and I doubt that very much LOL .

It went like this CGA got diagnosed. The medication got recommendation on their computers or off the top of there heads from past experience mentions stuff about Calcium and Vit D etc . So …

The whole cocktail with the calcium sweets etc gets shaken but not stirred by the pharmacy and finds its way into your take away sick bag.

You read the telephone directory of side effects in the leaflets and think this is thalidomide or something and take them anyway... then think better of it ….come here .. and think .. **** now what.

Then I think maybe more time for thought is going on and some people are questioning if the contents of the sick bag could also make you sicker then you need to be.

And so I ask PMR pro ...thinks gone nutcase again phone 111 and send him completely mad or maybe this is interesting and you can tell me more stuff ?

Calcium Vitamin D3 and K2 .. Egg yokes bits of little dead fish butter kale all the same thing but maybe not enough of them. Or maybe enough but not being absorbed . K2 sounds like an important mountain to climb up and investigate to me. But I've not even got to first base on understanding this Calcium Vit D3 and K2 thing yet so I cheated and asked the Dr Daughter but nope nothing came back !

I have a feeling this might be complicated I kind of like this.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to survivalist]

Calcium/vit D is the bottom level of bone protection medication while on pred. Bisphosphonates are the next stage if the bone density is low. It isn't that complicated really. Well, I don't find it so at least.

[Roltuba]

Would imagine it’s because you don’t need or shouldn't take both. Google “too much calcium”. And also read carefully the leaflet about when you should take your calcium with regard to other foods. I find 11am and 11pm suits.

Off to continue my post-doctoral research on what to do in a couple of days in London. Following the same level of research on what Airbnb to rent...

[PMRnewbie2017]

If you have time, download the excellent book Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox.

Try searching this forum for pieces on VitK2 and calcium. I replied to another person today on this subject funnily enough.

I doubt the pharmacist will know a lot about VitK2. I'm retired now but it was never mentioned in my training and I have to admit this forum is where I learned about it.

You could also look into Omeprazole and its effect on bone health. I refused to take it because of its association with osteoporosis in some people.

The NICE guidelines have the become the Bible for prescribing these days. If patients refuse to take certain meds, then it has to be recorded on your notes so you can't complain later.

[PMRdaughter in reply to PMRnewbie2017]

K2 helps with the absorption of D, it helps inhibit the release of calcium from the bones. I am not a dr and I’m not sure how prednisone may affect the K2 or at all for that matter. Worth trying. But vitamin K2 can be contraindicated for anyone on blood thinners or with a clothing issue, so it’s always good to do your research and review any changes in supplements with your dr. Check out Vitamindsociety.org

[PMRdaughter]

Go to a website vitamindsociety.org. Vitamin d3 with K2 is what you want. K2 is supposed to help the absorption of D, it also helps stop the calcium from releasing from your bones. It’s worth going to a naturopathic dr to discuss or your own dr.