Are we generally told on diagnosis of PMR that all the drugs we take will make us deficient in magnesium? I really don’t remember but a year on from my diagnosis I was suffering from frequent foot cramps and restless leg syndrome, finally googled what cause might be and discovered that Pred, omneprazole and the Calcium/Vit D all have adverse effect on our magnesium. I’m now taking daily magnesium and cramps disappeared immediately. Just a heads up for anyone else who might be suffering similarly.
Magnesium: Are we generally told on diagnosis of... - PMRGCAuk
Magnesium
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Llarmel
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Thank you for that info as I suffer from leg cramps and I have been taking the Accrete Vit D for the last month. I will try the Magnesium and leave off the Vit D for a week or so and see what happens.
HeronNS in reply to
Is stopping your vitamin D a good idea? Just make sure you take your supplements several hours apart. I take pred in the morning, calcium at lunch and bedtime, and if I think I need magnesium I take a capsule at supper. But mostly I rely on a soak in an Epsom salts bath, where the magnesium is absorbed through the skin. 🛁
One of the problems is, taking a calcium supplement upsets the balance the body maintains between magnesium and calcium and then it becomes harder for the body to absorb the magnesium. Once you restore the balance try to maintain it by the occasional extra bit of magnesium, and by eating a lot of leafy greens. I read somewhere that magnesium is to plants what iron is to animals so you can imagine it's relatively easy to find magnesium in our food!
Should I be taking my Calcium and Magnesium at different times?
Don't thinks it matters...my mag actually says it contains calcium...Natural Vitality natural calm, mixes with hot or cold water or juice..
That’s the product my Rheumatologist suggested. He said to start low and work up to recommended dose. Starting right at dose may cause diarrhea. He also said to take at night as it might help with sleep.
If your calcium and magnesium balance is off, yes, because calcium will interfere with magnesium absorption. This happens when we take calcium supplements but not magnesium. If your calcium supplement also includes magnesium it is probably helping to maintain the balance. If you've been taking calcium without magnesium I think it's recommended to have magnesium at a separate time for a little while to re-establish balance. Have a read of "The Magnesium Miracle" by Carolyn Dean.
in reply to HeronNS
Only just logged on Heron but thank you for your advice. I will take just one Vit D as well as the Magnesium for a week and see how it goes. How I wish that I had a bath many times but only have a shower. I will try a foot soak later whilst watching TV as I already have Epsom Salts in the cupboard which I must have bought for some reason and never used !!! D
HeronNS in reply to
Apparently even a foot bath works!
Nobody told me when I was diagnosed in November 2017, that "Pred, Omneprazole and the Calcium/Vit D" all have adverse effects on our Magnesium! A few weeks ago my hands starting cramping up so badly, they actually looked deformed! Then a few days later I had cramps in my calf... I started on Magnesium this past Saturday and I am much better!!!! No deformed hands!
HeronNS in reply to
Isn't it nice to be able to deal with one of our sources of pain so easily?!
Rimmy in reply to
I see this 'old' post of yours Melissa and am going to try a magnesium supplement to see if it helps my recurrent calf cramp problem (possibly too much calcium and not enough magnesium) ! Another great thing about this forum is being able to do such simple searches as: 'calcium and magnesium' and find so much discussion I have inadvertently missed. Hopefully you don't get those awful hand cramps ever now !
Rimmy
XX
in reply to Rimmy
RIMMY!!!!! My Sage! Yes, I have been on twice daily, 200mg of magnesium, since that post and my cramping problem is much better! Occasionally, if I am using my hands and doing like a repetitive movement (I was hand stitching a zipper onto a thick, kilim pillow cushion... OUCH!) my right hand will still get all deformed and cramp up badly, but it used to do that if I was sitting on the couch doing nothing... so much better! Give it a try, it won't hurt! I hope it helps with your recurrent calf cramp problem! I lite a candle for you the other day, asking the Universe and the powers that be to heal your achilles tendon... One can but hope!!!! xxxx
Rimmy in reply to
Thanks Melissa - you are a fantastic 'sage' yourself !! - so the feeling is mutual. I know how painful a hand cramp can be - not personally but Ruth has had some awful ones - one bad enough she had to go to hospital - it was totally unbearable- and they didn't 'do' anything but it eventually wore after hours and hours (up all night - ghastly !!). Luckily this has not been repeated but we have both talked about taking magnesium now ! Strange my Achilles problem has improved quite a bit altho left me with this painful calf issue but I am sure it will resolve - as it must do - all part of this balancing act of illness and drugs and supplements - and as you know it is complex at times and we can easily fall off the tightrope !
Lovely to talk - it's been a while - I have been rather an 'antisocial' misery-guts lately (ha ha !!)
XXXX
Doctor never mentioned it but I did see something on this forum about it. Had been having leg cramps most nights for a while so Epsom salts for bath and magnesium spray did the trick. Had blood tests since which said magnesium levels were ok. Leg cramps are gone anyway and once again I thank this forum 👏👏
That is a good reminder, it really works! Thanks.
Thanks for the reminder. Magnesium does really help.
Except with repeating yourself it seems. My iPad is behaving oddly.
Yes I have recently been having cramps in my feet - very unusual for me - so have taken Magnesium for a few days now and improvement is noticeable. Wondering if this is also related to sweating a lot and loss of electrolytes generally.
Yogurt, almonds, avacado and dark chocolate are all high in magnesium, as are spinach and chard.
A nice soak in the bath sounds good, but I wonder how I would get out.
That probably explains my cravings for almonds and dark chocolate, have never had a craving for spinach or chard. 😁
Haha I remember in the summer on holiday pre-pred I decided to have a bath. What a fiasco trying to get out. Laugh about it now but was not so funny then. Bathroom door locked and all the rest of the family having fun round the pool. Put me off for months. I'm usually a shower person but just wanted to soothe my old achey bones that day. Lesson learned 😂 First and last attempt there.
I think basically they expect to have you off pred within a year so don't even consider things like that .
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As I understand it, it isn't that calcium/vit D supplements have a detrimental effect on magnesium levels as such - just that if your diet is deficient in magnesium the effect is magnified, much as Heron has explained. So it is important to ADD magnesium to your diet rather than stopping the vit D. The PPIs seem to impair the absorption of magnesium from the gut - stopping the PPI seems to be the only way of sorting that out though it isn't yet clear. It also seems to be a problem in long term PPI use - and there are enough warnings from the manufacturers and the FDA that they shouldn't be used in that way.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Certainly taking pred, especially at high doses, causes the body to shed calcium via the kidneys. That is why they give us the supplements - having more around means more is likely to be present in the blood to get to the bones before being removed.
The paper mentions checking blood magnesium levels before giving PPIs but the blood level isn't an accurate reflection of the magnesium level in the muscles - the blood scrounges it to keep its level OK. It isn't just omeprazole - it is what is called a class effect - so all PPIs are likely to do it but it also isn't clear whether it happens to everyone or whether it is yet another "everybody is different".
Here in mainland Europe the first thing any doctor will ask someone complaining of cramp is whether they have tried magnesium supplements - which are available in every supermarket. As usual - the UK just looks surprised!
PS - if you are on a PPI it is probably a good idea to use topical applications as that will eliminate the gut absorption problem.
I think you are a doctor! You certainly know more than most!
No - I just had to stay awake in my biochemistry lectures...
Did you work in the medical field? Glad you stayed awake in class to help all of us sufferers!
I went to med school but decided it wasn't for me as I didn't want to starve for 5 years!!! I moved to biochemical medicine - the lab many of your blood tests get sent to. It was the early days of the field and all the top jobs were already occupied by young men so no career future for a married woman - I was prime candidate for one job until they noticed my wedding ring when they became far more interested in where my husband would work!
I've worked in the medical field all my life in various capacities and for over 30 years did freelance medical and scientific translation which also required massive background knowledge. Now I'm retired looking stuff up for here keeps the little grey cells ticking over...
We are so lucky to benefit from your expertise. My brain cells are primarily activated by exercise. My attention span is worse since PMR and I look for easy activities. I think the stress pre diagnosis from working as a financial advisor in urban schools for 40 years ending a relationship and monitoring the care of my 94 yr. old mother has me focusing on simplicity...cooking, movies, magazines, long walks, travel, family. I am the founder of a charity that helps urban girls and their families. We distributed 15000 prom gowns and $35,000 in scholarships. Now is our busy time.
I couldn't do any of that - and never could have. But this I enjoy - and have met a lot of lovely people as a result. PMR isn't all bad...
Oh, that attention span limitation! The only thing that gets my full attention is staring into space, not seeing, not hearing. Is this what transcendental meditation is all about? Whatever, it's a pleasant way of passing time with PMR and Pred issues, if not at all productive.
Definitely!
What is a PPI?
Proton pump inhibitors, drugs which reduce the production of stomach acid. An example is omeprazole.
As I have been on a PPI for years I think you may have pinpointed my recent problem with cramps 'Doctor' PMRpro - I just needed to back track on some of the great forum commentary - much of it by YOU !!
Thanks for it all
Rimmy
How on earth did you find it!!!!!
I have foot cramps so prob could use magnesium. What strength please?
Thank you for the heads up.
Whatever supplements have in them - if you take too much you will soon find out: magnesium is also a laxative in large enough quantities so don't be tempted to take extra!!
Good advice, Thank you. I suffer from terrible restless leg syndrome so I'm goingoing to give it a try
I probably should have mentioned in my original post re magnesium that I was on holiday when I realised my cramps and restless legs were due to a magnesium deficiency. At home I have a fridge full of leafy green veg that we eat daily but go abroad and the veg content of what you order is often almost nonexistent apart from salad.
I also take an Epsom salt bath but wonder how often should I do so.
The evidence isn't good for topical magnesium application. Not sure how to post the link but article is myth or reality- transdermal magnesium. NcBI- NIH
Thankyou Llarmel for all the information,my legs are constantly feeling numb and stiff,l shall give the magnesium supplements a try .
I have been suffering since Oct last year with Piriformis syndrome, (cramp in the buttocks). I have tried Magnesium spray but it seems to have no effect, maybe the piriformis muscle is too deep. Think I will try an oral Magnesium supplement see if that works better. I have also tried Chondroitin and Emu oil gel, and now am trying Green lipped muscle gel. My Chiropractor says it doesn't matter what you rub on, it is the massage that helps!!
Your chiropracter is quite correct! Once piriformis is established it takes more than a magnesium supplement to get the muscle to relax! I speak from bitter personal experience!!!!
I saw her yesterday for a deep massage. Felt rather bruised this morning but it has helped. how long did yours take to go?
It never really goes away - and the flare/flu at present is neatly anchored into my lower back. Ouch!!!!
Marci may, I get so tight in my butt sometimes, at therapy she had me put my back against the wall and roll a tennis ball between the wall and my butt! Go easy because if it’s tight it will really hurt, but it does work.
Thanks for that. I was never told about pred. making me deficient in magnesium. Thank goodness for this site. Havnt got a bath just a shower, so long foot soaks with epsom salts for me plus the supplement. I have noticed for some time problems with my feet.
No I wasn't told either and only learned through this forum. Been taking magnesium now for about 6 weeks and marked improvement in my general health and nowhere near as many jumpy legs/cramps. Hope u doing well xx
The type of Magnesium supplement is also important - check the web. I take Magnesium Citrate which supposedly is one of the best to absorb.
I take it too, helps a lot...just do your homework and get the most absorbing kind...
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