tonight being diabetic I have had , 3/4 bag prawn crackers, tube rolos, spring roll, hot cross bun, bowl frosties, and now got indigestion because of hiatus hernia.
😱😱😱😱
The preds mess with my blood sugars so tomorrow have to go on diet my body told me tonight 😂
Let's hope tomorrow brings me another good day !! But not overeating !!
Question
Has anyone heard of the atorvastatin causing muscle soreness ???
Only a thought but do you think they are also associated with PMR ?
Written by
Margaret1951
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Oh well - may as well be 'hung' for a sheep as a lamb !! I know the feeling - I'm not (so far anyway) diabetic but for much of my life have had an unhealthy attraction to sugar and anything else that seemed for some strange reason to be 'bad' for me. Not that I wasn't educated about what is meant to be 'good' food - and my partner is a long term vegan as well. Since PMR/GCA I have managed some slightly better behaviour though as I felt I needed to control some aspects of this strange experience and have basically stuck to low carbs - but quite high fat(s) - and have lost quite a lot of weight. The odd thing is when I have eaten extra (not so healthy) stuff now and then it seems to make little difference and weight loss has been maintained at least. But I just wanted to say I understand how frustrating life can be at times and just being able to eat something you really like - REGARDLESS of whether it is 'healthy' or not - can be a great distraction. I'm sure you'll get back on top of everything soon !
Thanks Margaret - I actually just had a 2nd diabetes (Hba1c) test in 6 months to see if I might be heading that way - but all OK and no change even after months of quite high doses of pred - so may be lucky. My cholesterol levels look high though (non-fasting) so maybe I 'need' a bit less full fat yogurt as a 'valid' excuse for lining my stomach for the pred.
Good luck with all your efforts - in 'heaven' (my version anyway) we will be able to eat EXACTLY what we want WHEN we want it and still look 'elegant' in our favourite gear... (LOL)
Mind you I note the very informed PMRpro comments on other threads that cholesterol levels are not generally about our diet and that Pred raises cholesterol and/or blood sugar in some people.
Yes - I was reading some back threads after doing a search on this forum and some other related ones and discussions about statins are certainly interesting and of some concern. The very fact males and females can react so differently to them is no small thing in itself. There is so much past medical research where males were the only or major key 'subjects' we could be years reassessing the possible implications for women - I feel like saying 'typical' !!
We've had a rule in our house for decades now - no junk food is stored on the premises. Now don't get me wrong, we have butter and flour and sugar and molasses and honey and baker's chocolate and eggs and milk and baking soda...everything one needs to bake a cake or brownies or cookies...we also usually have apples or berries to make pies or tarts...but no junk that just comes ready made out of a box or a bag. Ever. If we don't bake it, we don't have it. (I've also perfected the recipes we like best so I only make half or a quarter of the original yield.) Therefore, one needs both the time and the energy...and a desire so strong one is willing to do all the work...
There is one alternative. We live on top of the highest point on the Eastern seaboard of the USA south of Maine. There are no stores up here. If we don't make the junk food ourselves, the other rule is that we have to walk down the hill to the store and walk back up before we can eat the junk we find. That's a half mile walk down and up a fairly steep grade. Again, one has to have both the time and the energy...
Now at the height of summer we have access to fresh and locally grown peaches and plums and berries and melons both here and out at the beach house, so that we keep on hand and consume liberally, and they satisfy my sweet tooth in their natural state, being so fresh and delicious. Some do make their way into the freezer for consumption when it's time for baking again.
You might want to give this plan a try. As you can imagine, one needs to have a craving so strong as to overcome the built-in obstacles, even wiithout PMR.
Whatever you decide, don't beat yourself up. Life with PMR is tough enough. A little over-indulgence is sometimes necessary just to feel somewhat normal once in a while.
I love bread and pretzels etc. Not a really big sweet eater but can certainly get myself going. Just back from vacation and found I'd gained 6 pounds in 8 days. I know I cheated on my low carb low sugar diet that I went on when my PMR was diagnosed last Dec. 2016. I lost 25 pounds on that diet. I almost panicked when the scale showed that six pound gain, but amazingly, getting back on the wagon for three days and I'm back to my prevacation weight. For me carbs and Pred are just a bad bad combination. But Pred doesn't seem to care about protein and fat so much.
Go figure. It took PMR to teach me how bad my high carb diet had been for me all my life.
At least part, if not all, of the weight gain when on holiday will have been fluid retention - partly because of eating too salty food which obviously causes water retention. But when you don't eat carbs you use up the glycogen stores in muscle before starting to use up the fat stores you want rid of. One of the properties of glycogen is to attract water - so you eat carbs, the glycogen stores are replenished and they also cause water retention. Instant weight gain. When you go back to your low carb and less salt diet - the fluid goes.
Both low salt and low carb are important dietary aspects when taking pred as pred increases both effects.
Yep I thought I was having a reaction to statins before being diagnosed with PMR. Both my GP and Rheumatologist said it was a reasonable assumption to make as sore muscles are the most common side effect of Statins. I was taken off statins when I went on pred and I'm now back on a lower dose.
I never felt really well since I went on statins a couple of years ago. My cholesterol was horrific - 9. It's just over 5 now.
Satins caused me so much muscle pain and stiffness that I refused to take them.In fact, I think the month I took them , the side effects sort of "turned into" PMR. They were trying to give me statins just for elevated LDL , which I was able to bring down through a keto diet, although my weight has stayed the same.I have no grains or sugar in the house, my husband and son, that lives with us, have both lost weight but not me😵
I don't have ordinary sugars in anything and not done so for years.
The craving I get nurse told me to have 6 jelly babies and biscuits or sandwiches, but when you wake at 3 etc in morning no way do I feel like eating those ! I have the jelly babies and lucosade by my bed.
😇
atorvastatin definitely caused me arm pain. pravastatin been fine for 8 years. similar kind of pain to pmr
As a veggie low-carb does present problems sometimes as can't fill up on protein. I have found a cheat. "pasta"and "Noodles" made of vegetables that are low carb in terms of fibre negating carb and also high protein. They are made of edemame and peas and are expensive but go a long way. At least they have that chew texture that pasta has but are basically cooked in tomato sauce base you make for pasta. I buy Holland and Barrett versions. Don't expect anything to be exactly like pastA but it does trick me.
I have had to resort to it. Not keen on meat substitutes but quorn inoccuos. It also depends if I am on or off eggs. But quorn started vegan range so will try that. I love tempeh and like tofu if cooked properly.
I. Do like pasta but then get bored with it, for some reason I have completely gone off bread !! No idea why though as used to like a ham sandwich at lunch time.
Blood tests have shown up to high protein Doctor told me so that's out.
It's actually in the evening I get the munchies, don't know why !
Statins CAN cause muscle soreness (I don't care WHAT the latest study says) and one of them actually has PMR listed as an adverse event in its data sheet. Atorvastatin nearly had me in a wheelchair after a week - took me months to get back to where I had been before.
I do wonder if atorvastatin did compound pain problems and pain was so similar to my PMR pain. I can't believe I tolerated it for so long. A couple of years and I was practically immobile. But I had pre-existing fibromyalgia and chronic pain /neuralgia that muddied the waters. I just decided one day to stop statin and was so much better. Second statin seems to have been ok but on very verge of stopping it. It's just so difficult negotiating research results. Despite statins my over cholesterol has kept rising but not sure what the breakdown is.
I think most people have days when the diet goes out of the window. I also try not to buy things in. But I have been known to bake a cake under the influence of sleeping pills. I have no idea what kind of cake and I didn't even know I had ingredients in. Just found flour and bowls etc. in the sink in the morning. Oh and one very happy and fat tummied cocker spaniel!!🐶
had trigger/tender points in the "right ' places but who knows how pain and fatigue is going to be diagnosed. amitriptyline has been only thing that helped for years with pain killers. never been pain free but manage it day to day..
in reply to
....but does make me wonder now. especially given time you have had PMR . pp
I have been on amytriptyline for years now started at I think was 125mg but.
This was due to a motorcycle accident I had 50 years ago !
Now got down myself to 25mg every evening due to the nerve damage I got and restless leg because of it all.
My friend ( don't laugh ) bought me a cold gel mat for dogs to cool down on.
When I feel the nerve jumping I lay on it half turned so it cools my groin ( bike handle went straight through as had head on with car)I am surprised it helps tremendously !!!
I just had a thought , wonder if I put it on my leg muscles if it will help the PMR ! Anyone tried this ???
I know, I died also in ambulance and at hospital, my Doctor cannot believe why I am still here. I severed femoral artery and veins and other big words they use, but I am still here. 😇Please go get one of those cool mats my friend paid £5 for it from B&m. That is my problem when you get a hot leg it starts off,
It was on a very bad bend in a country lane, I had a BSA 125 went round the the corner and bang head on with car. Don't remember anything until I woke up in hospital after the operation. It was not my time to go. 😇
A BSA . that's some set of handlebars ! I only got to Honda 70 and fortunately only broke a leg when car turned across road in front of me. Thank goodness you don't actually remember it.
Strange thing thoughthe night before I dropped my handlebars, a ' rockers' things with our bikes, not scooters lol the only thing I ever remembered to this day was someone inside ambulance with me said " your going to have to stop as we have a bad one here " that's it though. Could you not ride anything bigger 😂😂😂😂😂
My nephew wanted a motorcycle so I showed him my massive scar ( never show anyon) it goes round my groin and up into my stomach a bit, he just shrugged, got a bike and 2 weeks later like yourself a car cut him up and in the end had to have his leg cut off from the knee because of the pain. But he still got phantom pain and to this day still on painkillers !!! You sure were lucky 😇
How many? I had about 8 tender spots, maybe more more, out of the 18, so when I was doing my personal research for a diagnosis it was difficult to decide it wasn't fibro. But the magic effect of pred sorted that out - fibro doesn't respond to pred.
I had 12 or more and still have most of them. it's a slightly different kind of pain. Apart from when you manipulate the points I find that pain to be more diffuse, generalised and was helped by stretches. PMR pain for me has been more intense and burning. I think it might have been you might have described it like "chinese" burn that doesn't stop. Fatigue wise it's similar but of course more intense pain equals deeper fatigue....for me.
I have a friend who is similar age to me, she is tiny and very slim yet doctor wanted to put her on them !! She said no way !! And she is very healthy with what she eats,
My PMR came on I think 2 years ago and Doctor said that happens after getting GCA , who do we believe !
I could not walk with muscles or joints and he diagnosed PMR right away with my symptoms, upped preds and I was out of pain within 3 days !
It doesn't always happen after GCA - that's rubbish. I know plenty of people who had "just" GCA.
One developed PMR-type symptoms - but she insisted it wasn't PMR, it was different from what we all described. It turned out her vit D level was in its boots and the GP prescribed 8 weeks of high dose vit D supplements. Within a week the symptoms started to improve. At the end of the 8 weeks her blood level was fine and so was she. About 6 months later it all came back - and they checked her vit D: it had fallen again. Another course of vit D and checks ever 6 months - hasn't fallen again and no symptoms.
However, another lady with GCA has developed PMR a few years after getting off pred but definitely a different "episode". And yet another was told she had PMR, then GCA - and in the end it turned out it was probably neither but ankylosing spondylitis. Which can present like PMR and also cause head and neck pain that looks very like GCA. Occasionally I feel sorry for the docs...
If Doctor agrees with me I can try a month without stats or I tell him I want to try, I can see if any effects are there or not. At this moment I have just come back from field with dogs and muscles in agony again yet had good day yesterday. Not took my atorvastatin last night either because of what I read, so gawd knows why this is still happening !! But must percevear and rest now and hope it goes away.
I took Atorvastatin for quite a while until I read your words PMRpro about it. I had had terrible pains in my arms, hands and fingers so I stopped them at the end of March after a discussion with my GP and I am due to have a fasting blood test on 17th Aug to check my cholesterol levels. I will put on here the results.
My husband has been on Simvastatin since at least 2008 and he has never had any aches and pains or any other side effects and neither of us has seen anything concerning this drug in particular. I had been on Atorvastatin since November 2015 but this did not coincide with me starting with PMR, in fact it was approx. 8 months after I had finished pred.
However I am not your typical ex PMR person because I have other medical problems and suffer permanent fatigue so I spend all my time pacing myself.
Simvastatin probably has the largest number of complaints about it - but it is also the first widely used statin and is used by the most patients so you would expect that to be the case.
There is, however, a hospital in North America somewhere (can't remember of the top of my head) where it is banned. Other statins are allowed, just not simvastatin.
Same thing happened to my cousin. I resisted so so long
But am now taking crestor 2.5 mg, low dose. I am having cramping pain in my calves, more on the left side. But that seemed to have begun with the Prednisone, months before crestor. Podiatrist today suggested I take electrolyte balancing pills as a starter. Or drink pickle juice. He says it could be lumbar radiculopathy. Oh joy.
Your podiatrist seems to taking the hard way. If it started with pred - try eating more foods with magnesium, even taking a magnesium supplement. And many people find Epsom salts footbaths help cramps (you can absorb magnesium through skin). Pred makes you lose more magnesium through your kidneys - a bit more helps.
I am taking Magnesium 250 mg daily. This feel "different" from the old cramps I had some years ago that went away with Magnesiuum. It feel tight,comes and goes, like a big non palpable lump in the calf muscle. I want to knead it but can't feel 'it'.Weird. Less painful but still some pain. Definitely more likely after I've been sedentary for a while. I notice it most when I get up from a chair to start walking. Sometimes my strIde is altered. I like the Epsom Salts idea,
I have severe leg pain from all of the statin drugs. The pain wakes me after midnight. Finally, I have to get up and take some paracetamol. After trying three different drugs, I finally decided I can't bear that misery, and will take my chances without them. In my case, I t isnt the PMR, it's the drugs.
And, as for carb cravings, ,....you control what you put in your mouth... when you're hungry/craving, think about it...
and realize you are making choices. Those Rolos don't just jump in your mouth on their own.
Try some peanut butter on celery, a piece of meat, some cheese . Your blood sugar will respond appropriately, and you will feel lots better.
By the way, I've done all the same things you listed, so you are reading words of experience. 😊
It does actually stop the craving for other chocolate, diabetic nurse knows her stuff. If you drink it pure orange juice suppose to also but my hiatus hernia will not allow me.
Hi Margaret, in answer to your Atorvastatin...yes!! It can cause muscle pain! My poor Mum could hardly get out of bed when they put her on it, it affected her joints too. She was better when they changed her to a different one, I think it was Pravastatin.
Mercifully (maybe) it is very difficult to control cholesterol by what you eat - unless you ate the most disgusting selection of take-away deep fried junk in the first place! I have seen blood samples from patients where you couldn't see through the plasma (the clear part) because their lipid levels were so high!
Your liver makes the vast majority of your cholesterol - it is essential to life and too low a level of cholesterol is as bad for you as too high a one. Studies have associated increased death rates to very low levels of cholesterol!
Statins have definitely been associated with PMR. As PMRpro mentions, one statin now carries a warning in its product information sheet. That statin is Zocor (simvastatin). Under "Postmarketing Experience" in its product info sheet it states:
"An apparent hypersensitivity syndrome has been reported rarely which has included some of the following features: anaphylaxis, angioedema, lupus erythematous-like syndrome, polymyalgia rheumatica, dermatomyositis, vasculitis, ..."
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