Off topic - Brexit or Remain

I have just signed a petition calling for another Referendum being horrified at the result. I do not suppose it will do any good but one can hope.

I worry about the country we are leaving for my grandghildren - the Β£ has already sunk very low. If you are worried as well - your B12 will cost more -pehaps you could sign the petition too.

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  • I'm truly horrified by this referendum For me it felt like a declaration of war. It has left me devastated and very very depressed. I will sign the petition . A very black day for UK My neighbours a Polish couple with a 10 year old daughter told me that she was set upon by 2 boys in her class the day after the referendum ,and told gleefully that she would have to return to Poland immediately This is what we have now .

  • I have lived in Greece since 2004 - throughout much financial and political turmoil. What has been done to the Greek people is something that does not reach the press in a justifiable way. Of course the Greeks have done things that did not make good sense - but that is the same in many countries.

    Last year I met a lawyer - here on holiday - working in Strasbourg who has the job of seeking out those who are illegally taking grants/set aside from the EU. She told me about a German farmer who was earning thousands from set-aside and yet renting a neighbours farm to continue farming and making more. So it is not just the Greeks :-)

    The EU in its infancy was an honourable concept - but don't you think it has somehow changed into something else ? Germany has recently bought 14 Greek airports among other things. So keeping the Greeks crawling and begging to stay alive is nothing more than an opportunity for others to financially benefit. Not to mention the submarines the Germans sold to Greece. Do we really need them ? I think not. The Germans have never repaid the monies that should have been paid after the war. Had they done so - Greece would not have the problems they have today. Maybe they would as politicians have been so corrupt. What's new ?

    Pensioners have had their pensions slashed by over 40% and so the vulnerable are suffering. I know someone will jump back and say - but it was so wrong that Greeks could retire early with a pension that has drained the pot - but I am talking about now/today.

    There are over 250 families in this area of Crete that need food parcels - clothing and donations raised from the ex-pats. No work opportunities for the young who are educated in Universities and are unable to find work. Almost 50% are unemployed.

    So as you can imagine Greece is not pro-Europe as things stand. I see what is happening in Greece as control - as the bailouts go back to EU banks to repay the interest and so keeps the dosh circulating ! Isn't that what the UK is trying to do - take back some control ? At the moment things are good in the UK financially and economically speaking - but who knows what the future holds. I see what is happening to a country that is actually part of Europe. It is also a country that is strategically placed in the Mediterranean - so I presume that was of value too in the beginning.

    I would like to see more transparency in the machinations of Brussels - an organisation that has not been audited ever. That is not the way I am allowed to run my business :-)

    The quest for a second referendum may also tell an even more positive story of what the people want for their country. Is that a risk worth taking ?

    I didn't vote and I still remain on the fence - listening to the arguments for Remain - I understood - likewise with the Leave campaign. I think we need time to reflect and decide what is really important in our lives - and the Politicians should too. All countries need to get their house in order - and begin again.

    Openess and honesty would be a blessing :-)

  • That you for this information, unfortunately the media in the uk do not gives us the information on Greece any more.....this is an eye opener

  • Visitors down too this year - thanks to the media reporting that we are overrun with migrants ...... this will exacerbate the financial crisis as those of us with villas and studios to let will have less dosh to spend in our community.

  • I'll come and see you 😊

  • its a shame your comment cannot be copied and placed on fb or twitter to give a personal view of Greece. I have been horrified the amount of hate that has come at people because they voted leave and the use of immigration as though that must be their sole reason for voting in this way. There are lots of reasons people voted in this way and for a lot of people I know that was not one of them, they did their research. I thought I lived in a country where people had a forum to use their voice and their brains to make their own minds up and not be persecuted for doing it. I'm just sad and hurt that this is not so....

  • So true sapphy, it is most annoying to hear people branded as, Racist & Dim wits, just because of there opinions.

  • I like to treat people as I want to be treated Dave but its hard when they show little respect for others.

  • Well said..

  • sapphy - I do not do either I'm afraid :-(

  • It made me sick what happened to the Greek people and they still gave the shirts off their backs to the desperate migrants arriving by boats ... Brave, stoic people.

  • If you cared,then you should have voted, I'm happy to leave

  • well said marz, and if cam had realised he had the trump card and demanded what we wanted there would have been no need for a ref. instead he asked for a loaf and accepted the crumbs, so this is the outcome, unfortunatley we have these morons that will pick on the poles, I don't have a problem with decent hardworking poles, swedes,

    norwegions, Spanish Italians or the like, and th e problem is that the parents of these hooligans don't talk to their kids or educate them about the war, and are prob as moronic themselves, The poles were our Allies in the war. the government better step up and sort this out asap.

  • That's exactly why I have signed the petition wedgewood - this referendum has divided the nation, Europe and the world.

    I'm truly afraid of the feelings that have been stirred up - having had peace in Europe for so long and been born into war, unity in our country, Europe and the world is vital. The EU is very far from ideal but we have no influence to change anything now.

    The man in an Indian corner shop practically threw the change at me on Friday - so so sad - I know how he must feel as the daughter of an immigrant mum.

  • I quite agree with you. I am also very anxious about the future of the Good Friday peace agreement. I cannot bear the thought of this very fragile peace disintegrating.

  • Not lightly

  • They are just bullies ..... Nobody in country will be sent back legally resident !!

  • I think if the Vote had gone the other way (remain) it would have been a done deal, so you should accept it even if you do not agree, Democracy .

  • Nigel farage said previously that if the UK voted to stay in the EU he would want a second referendum. So it should be ok for those who wanted to stay to ask for a second referendum too.

  • I think that it's sad that we chose to leave the EU, however the result does not have to be acted on, there is no legal reason to do so. Apparently, Parliament coull vote and the suggestion is that the MPs would vote to remain in the EU.

  • if the MPs decide what was the point of the Public Vote.

  • DC wanted to stick his finger in the socket to see what would happen. And the money he spent on it didn't go to Brussels bureaucrats, it came straight out of your pocket and went to print up all those nice leaflets that were posted through everyone's door.

  • The most depressing thing about this is the black feelings it has instilled in me.

    Those most likely to feel the dire effects of this decision (recession, unemployment, house prices dropping) are exactly those people who formed the majority of the leave voters (poorly educated, Sun-reading working classes). And when they start getting upset because they lose their job, find they have negative equity, have to pay for the NHS and realise that the number of EU immigrants is unchanged (because we will have to join the EEA - which entails free movement of EU citizens) then my attitude is going to be -

    You made the bed....

    And I hate myself for that.

  • thank you for that broad reflection on Leave Voters,

  • fb is ok really... As a Gooner this is no different to having a Spurs fan mate... They're always wrong πŸ˜‚

  • hun, I have a law degree and I have NEVER bought the Sun 😊... This is about control and forming a Gov that will be able to carry out our will... It won't be easy or fast, but democracy should come from us leading ourselves... Boris wants amnesty for illegals, I couldn't possibly agree to that, but unless people in enough numbers vote for him not to be the pm candidate or vote his entire party out, I'll have to suck it up until the consequences of that unravel... My vote to leave is for my children and to honour those who set us free before... I hope others follow as this started out a slightly iffy idea and the EU project has gotten completely out of hand now... As for Remainers, I still love you in the morning... 😊

  • Wow, how insulting are you fbirder, what a disgraceful remark. Sadly you haven't done your home work, and clearly know nothing about the corrupt workings of the E.U.

  • the corrupt workings of the E.U.


  • There is plenty of evidence of corruption of the E.U.amongst other things. But I don't think this is the time or place to be discussing such things. As for making insulting references to people who don't share your point of view, and making assumptions about their class and what newspapers they read is quite appalling. You should be ashamed of yourself for lowering the tone here.

  • There is plenty of evidence that all the members of the EU administration donate all of their salaries to children's charities. But I don't want to have to try and find it.

    It wasn't me that made assumptions. It was the pundits. They correctly forecast which areas were more likely to vote remain based on a very few criteria - the main ones were the age of the electorate, the affluence of the area and the level of education.

    That's why they correctly predicted that university towns like Oxford and Cambridge, with a high concentration of young, educated voters would be strongly Remain.

    That's why they predicted that two similar areas - Sunderland and Newcastle - would have a big difference. Because Sunderland has a higher concentration of university students.

    Why is it insulting to say that the majority of Labour voters in the 1970s were working class?

  • If you feel strongly why not add your name to this petition. Over 3m people have now signed since Friday. Gets debated in the commons over 100,000. It won't change the outcome but gets our voices heard. Share with your friends

  • I think if you look and listen to the Media and some of the so called absent Celebs (Tax) the stay voice has been heard.We should accept the outcome of the Vote, and get on with what the PEOPLE have Voted for.

  • Done!

  • If you actually look at the petition, its transparency as to who has voted and where they come from is interesting to say the least... Its easy to look up which country they are from....

  • it will get voided as lots that don't live or vote here have signed lol... Let's get back to what is done best on here... B12 survival x

  • There are some from other 'countries' you will always get the trolls but there are not 'lots' as far as I could see.

  • British people living in other countries registered and were able to vote .....

  • British people living in other countries registered and were able to vote

    Not necessarily. If you'd been resident elsewhere in the EU for a certain time (15 years?) then you weren't allowed to voice your opinion.

  • Can only go on what I know from folk living here.

  • lol there were more votes from one place than there were people.. That did make me smile..

  • So funny have to laugh it won't happen !! Do we just keep voting until we get what we want & maybe a 3rd vote.

  • Ireland had to 😊

  • Lol that's because they gave them a lot more consessions to there advantage in 2nd one . Said they didn't understand bloody cheek ( bought it ) my opinion .wont happen here even unessary some ppl think & say horrible things about ppl who did . We have to accept it now we are a democratic country which free speech ⭐️⭐️⭐️

  • So what if they come from a different country?

    I have a friend who runs a holiday place in Portugal. He's British but wasn't allowed to vote in the referendum.

    Now he gets a chance to express his protest. But because he's based in Portugal it shouldn't count again?

  • If they come from a different country and were not allowed a vote the first time due to the rules why would his position change? I don't understand, how another referendum would allow him to do that as surely the same rules apply or am i missing something?

  • He doesn't come from a different country - he comes from Britain. But he's live and worked in Portugal for 30 years, so he couldn't vote.

    His protest in in signing the call for a new referendum, where he hopes that the rules may be changed. Not only to let him have his say, but also to let people aged 16 and 17 to have a voice. After all they're the ones that will have to live with the decision, not us coffin-dodgers.

    However, it may be a moot point for him - he's just applied for Portuguese citizenship. It'll just mean he'll need a visa to come and visit his kids.

    I was hoping to get German citizenship. But it seems that I'm too old to qualify by having a German mother.

  • I'm staying out

  • Well said & so true it's a free speech democratic Country & that means for you to vote what you want .

  • It's called a referendum

    And I for one will never vote again if it is overturned I think it's a insult to say everyone who voted to leave are unintelligent or poor

    No different to our consultants not taking us seriously because Our bloods are in range or ignoring our problems to ignore the majority of people who voted to leave is the same arrogance these consultants have

  • it's a insult to say everyone who voted to leave are unintelligent or poor

    Has anybody said that all brexiters are stupid or poor?

    I think you'll find that your statement is as true as "we'll spend Β£350 million a week on the NHS."

    A large number of those who voted to leave are now finding out that their decision was based on several falsehoods. No different to our consultants believing what they've been told about B12 deficiencies. Yes, the truth is/was out there, but it takes/took some effort to find it.

  • I hope you are retracting your statement FB :

    "are exactly those people who formed the majority of the leave voters (poorly educated, Sun-reading working classes"

    because it comes across as false, arrogant and divisive.

    Nobody has a crystal ball or able to predict what will happen and I very much hope you are wrong.

  • You don't need a crystal ball to read the predictions from every major economic forecasters in the world.

    Once again it's a painful truth. The important questions are -

    Why are so many working-class people undereducated? Could it possibly be because we pay our teachers a pittance, treat them like shite and tie their hands? Could it possibly be because of a society that has been brought up to believe 'you can have whatever you want, as long as you want it enough'? Where huge numbers believe they can 'be famous' without actually doing anything?

    But the people have spoken. They have decided that they don't want to be 'ruled by unelected bureaucrats' and that we'll be able to negotiate a much better deal with the EU - because we want it enough.

  • As usual, you are generalising and believing media hype yourself - celebrities, sensationalism and untruths sell newspapers.

    The truth is the younger generation are generally educated to a much higher level than we were but now suffer from a lack of jobs and opportunities. As usual, it is the few highly publicised cases that spoil things for the rest.

    I find the younger generation to be polite and caring but this referendum might change this as older people are now being generalised as having voted to leave, thus condemning the young to a bleak future!

  • Have just learned on 'Question Time' that 75% of under 24 year olds voted to remain - they are the ones who will have to live with the consequences of Boris Johnson, Farage and the rest of the far right.

  • I take it from that comment you are not working class and think if we are we inferior to you due to lack of intelligence

  • Hah! I was born in Stepney and dragged up 200 yards from Kings Cross Station. My dad was a bus driver and my mum was a cleaner.

    There were five of us living in two rooms, with an outside loo. Sunday night was bath night - in a tin bath filled with water heated in a kettle. All 5 of us used the same water - youngest first.

  • This is how it was for most people then and worse - bombs dropping all around.

  • No, I missed the bombs by more than a decade.

  • Well respect your elders who have more experience of life's issues

  • Poorly educated, Sun-reading working class then fbirder

  • sweetie you said we were all thick and sun readers... But I'll forgive you, like me we never dodgy blood cells.... It plays with the mind 😊... Let's not do politics let's do help and support re b12 and PA...

  • Sorry, there must have been some change to the English language that passed by me. I was under the impression that the phrase 'the majority' meant 'more than half'. But obviously it now means 'all'.


  • it's ok I will still like you tomorrow πŸ˜‰

  • Quite agree scorpiojo - I know it's been said many times in the past few weeks but seems appropriate to remember and quote Jo again here :

    "We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.”

  • I'm not going to apologise for wanting to put people here 1st.. If this forum has taught us anything is that there's strain, mismanagement in the system.. Vote Leave were not a political party so couldn't really say where the money would go, but most realised that we could spend more which ever amount that would be after not altering the subsidies we give farmers.. Would be a bit daft ploughing the NHS taking away from farmers say... So we now can shape a Gov that can obey us and prioritise what we want... I think it's going to be positive in the end and more democratic... It won't be easy, but staying may have really dragged us down... That's my final thoughts on it... Like most here I'm here to get well and am grateful, so grateful for the help, I'm not going to sour it over politics.. As a Gooner I'm used to rubbing along with Spurs fan friends 😊 that's way more important πŸ˜‚ x

  • Indeed not mine was based on facts & also been of my children's children's future so let's knuckle does. & do what's best for country not selfserving silly bullies .

  • Sheer arrogance & disrespect for all the country unless you do what they want you too

  • lm in Scotland and now they want another referendum for independence for gods sake we have voted already and that woman needs to stop glory seeking and let us live in peace with our great neighbours lm Scottish and proud of it but prouder to be british!

  • Oh my gosh it's not just me that sees Miss Nicola as a bit of a child. When she doesn't get her way, she spits the dummy out ie: indyref! It's like she's got us over a barrel.

    I don't believe the government will allow another referendum, it's been done and the union was wanted by a majority.

    So, she wants to be part of Europe, and won't be made to leave the EU, but when Scotland voted in the indyref, I felt as though the rest of us would have been forced to part the union when I wanted Scotland to stay, we didn't get to have any say on it!

    Scotland are our brothers and sisters, they are one of us and we're one of them, just like Wales and N Ireland, why would that be torn apart!

    My nationality is British, always has been, always will be, I rarely say I'm English!

  • I must admit it seemed inappropriate to me for ms sturgeon to create a scene when England woke up to find itself in a mess... 😞

  • Er, you do know that Scotland voted to remain, don't you? And by a very large margin. It's an autonomous country with a different political culture to the rest of the UK (as well as a legal system based on Roman law, not Anglo-Saxon common law, a different education system, etc.). Why should Scotland put up with being dragged along in England's wake?

  • I understand your point. I am just thinking that in the circumstances it would have been appreciated if there was a show of solidarity with other remainers and also that while there was an obvious majority for remain in Scotland there were others who did not share that choice... These are divisive times and social media is awash with terrible statements so I apologise for any offence to you and your people.

  • I'm not actually Scottish, so no need for any apology. :-) However, I live not far from the border, and I'm now seriously considering selling up and hopping across. Unfortunately, the disparity in house prices and a longer commute for my husband may prevent us from doing so.

    The Europhile Scots are under no obligation to show 'solidarity', as you put it, with the decision of a neighbouring country which is deleterious to their interests and demonstrably contrary to their wishes.

    I think it's important to remember that the United Kingdom is a union of different polities. The identity of those polities has been strengthened post-devolution, so we shouldn't be surprised if they eventually wish to go their own way once more. For myself, I am pro-EU, but not necessarily pro-UK.

  • I wish you well. It's a complex situation made all the worse by animosity... Europe has some terrible problems as we've heard from others here who have friends and relatives there... personally, I'd like to remain as open as possible to a positive future - idealistic may be but all the same we all usually want the same things... ;)

  • 123harry, how refreshing you are, Nicola, that woman she speaks for the WHOLE of Scotland ,the krankie woman, and she pulled the heads of her sisters dolls when they were small and it gave her great pleasure, and she hasn't

    changed, and good on you to want to stay neighbours with us . she forgets that Scotland gets a helping hand from the british government, and she wont get anymore if she leaves us, but she has said she will stay in EU AND keep the pound, the woman must be God in dsguise to assume she will have what she wants with a snap of her finger--- she is causing hatred between England and Scotland, I do not like all this animosity between the uk countries, she suffers megalomania. get her to a doctor!

  • I think this really over the top.

  • Well said bluepettals2 "pulls heads of her sister's dolls and it gave her pleasure" says it all really!!!

  • I voted leave for the future for my grandchildren, the next few months will be rough but when all calms down i'm looking for a better for all uk citizens, the majority vote was out, thats what the referendum was about, we will never agree but thats life, we all have our own opinions.

  • (1) This referendum is not binding, it is nothing more than an expensive and divisive opinion poll. Both parties should be deeply ashamed. Parliament is pro-Europe so why were we left unprotected from openly anti-Europe party leaders?

    (2) The frantic backpedalling done by the leave side confirms that they were lying about the Β£350m they said went to the EU which they implied they'd give to the NHS. The reason they're disowning their own words is because they know they lied and they're trying to hide their lies.

    (3) The MEPs who threw the EU to the dogs went over there as dissenters and wrecked the whole thing, and then came back to the UK and talked about how **** it all is. Farage did nothing as an MEP for the fishermen he was paid to support, then he had the nerve to come back here and exploit a flotilla of fishermen who said the EU hadn't done anything for them. That is a scandal in the true meaning of the word, but I think too little of him to be surprised. This is what he thinks of the working people he purports to support.

    (4) My partner worked in government for over 20 years and now works as an expert advising on government. Expertise says if we aren't saved from leaving this is going to be a long hard slog. These are not temporary adjustments.

    (5) If you're that much of a contrarian that you think your non-racist economic/'sovereignty'/cultural/etc vote to leave is counted in a different pile than the backward racist moron pile, you obviously have no regrets and the far-right venom that has been unleashed by the leave vote is nothing to do with you. Pat yourself on the back and have a biscuit.

    The whole thing is a mess and I am ashamed and embarrassed.

  • Very succinctly put. I quite agree.

  • People do vote on their own experiences not just so easily manipulated by Farage et al...

  • But in the end what does it matter if one made one's decision independent of Farage if we're now all on the same side? The outcome is the same.

    I think those who disagreed with both sides should have spoiled their ballots.

  • What the EU has done to Greece is nothing short of scandalous, it's sickening to say the least. I couldn't see Germany getting that level of treatment if it were in the same situation. I do think it would have been better for Greece to have left before that accepted their severe austerity package, it makes me so sad to see what they had forced upon their nation.

    I see the argument from both sides, but the EU has become unfair for some countries, assuming countries like Britain would just continue to keep giving and put up with whatever they were told. There are many EU member states that pay in very little, but the amount they received back was 4 times more. It's not fair for some, but fabulous for others.

    This is just one of the things that angers people in our country, and it's understandable. They feel we're being used by the EU.

    It also appears that to many we're just a nuisance, they listen to us then shrug off the concerns, we're not taken seriously. Continuing to order a person around means they will eventually snap. I feel this is why our country voted leave, because they wanted to send a sign to the EU that we're unhappy and it's desperate for reform. The main things I got from talking to friends was...Stop the rules being piled on, stop telling us what we can and can't do, stop taking us for granted, stop brushing us aside and stop threatening us!

    I don't believe the majority voted leave because they wanted out, I think it was a wake up call for the EU.

    Many leave voters have said they did not think UK would really leave, and there is the problem, this vote was used by many as a message to the establishment, when in reality it had nothing to do with the question on the's so sad!

  • out of 28 member states only 9 make a positive financial contribution:

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this but it does require clarification as this situation may not be sustainable...

  • I think this is as, if not more, important to discuss as my B12.

    Nationalism has caused two world wars this century.

    Here we are going nationalistic, put up the barricades and pull up the drawbridge, it has happened before with dire consequences.

    Cameroon was the biggest idiot for underestimating the number or racists, bigots and idiots and the gullible taken in by the lies, who would turn out to vote.

    So the European Union isn't perfect, but we cannot do anything about it from outside.

    'Leave' won't have much effect on me, but I do worry about my grandchildren future.

  • I understood we couldn't discuss it or maybe that's the thyroid bit... I don't think it's productive here... But it's a land of free speech I guess... I leave the thread then...

  • "We can't do anything about it from outside!"

    My father-in-law said we couldn't do anything about it from inside either.

    A French reporter said they described us in a classroom setting, the EU being the teacher, GB as the unruly child who's a little disruptive, aloud to get his feelings across but gets put back in his place by the teacher and laughed at by the other pupils...that is how we're seen by many French and Germans!!

    My father-in-law and I had a great debate over our differences, but something he said really made me understand why he wanted out. He said in the first vote to join, he was all for it, they promised no erosion of national sovereignty. But, as European law did and does still override British law, more and more of it was coming down from Brussels. As the years have gone, so have the choices and truths- so much that they've controlled almost everything. He said from the beginning, Britain was the second biggest contributor behind Germany, back then we weren't prosperous, here the economy was struggling. Questioning why it wasn't benefitting us like it was others, caused fallouts and friction from the country's who gained monetary benefit.

    He said yes originally to the common market, he didn't sign up for the rest of it!

    I think there needs to be a period of calm now, to let it all sink in, then we need to repair the divisions at home!

  • it is really valuable to hear what the other european states think of the EU and to have some kind of non-biased view point - its all so emotional and angry now - Brit turning on Brit... thanks for sharing... :)

  • I do not understand this way of thinking. We participate in the process in Brussels and bring to it our issues of concern. These decisions aren't handed down from on high from Brussels; WE are Brussels. Our sovereignty was in our participation.

    The anti-EU MEPs who made a mockery of the process can and should be blamed. They went over there to wreck it and wreck it they did.

  • I already have! I just feel so disillusioned and sad, and it is our children and grandchildren who bear the burden. It was clear to anyone who has worked in and understands the problems faced by the Health service that what the Brexit campaigners were promising was untrue.

  • To be fair they didn't really try very hard to make this 'promise' - it was only implied, and as you say if you understand the problems (and know what disgraceful liars they are) you'd have seen right through it.

  • Implied! Their bloody bus had in emblazoned on the side -

    This article from today's Guardian about Irritable Duncan Syndrome (IDS) retracting the statement that was on the Vote Leave campaign posters - "Vote Leave issued posters reading: β€œLet’s give our NHS the Β£350m the EU takes every week".

    No matter how often people try to pretend they didn't say it - they said it and it was a lie. And the people that said it knew it was a lie. Just like their promises to cut VAT were a lie. Just like their promises to stop immigration from the Eu were a lie.

    The population were lied to.

  • Get stuffed I'm happy leaving,im not signing nout

  • l have my thoughts ,fears and anguishes for the future as everyone else does, its a passionate subject and so it should be, who cares whether you read the sun or the financial times we are on this forum because we all suffer the same thing l leave this thread also to concentrate on my health and to keep on trying to help others

  • well said.

  • One of the questions just asked on 'Question Time' was, "As the Referendum facts given were based on lies, is the result still valid?" for thought.....

  • I voted Remain, but I do see the attractions of the Brexit argument, even without its racist undertones. Obviously I didn't think it outweighed the obvious costs of Brexit.

    What really depresses me is that it would appear that our future, and that of our children and grandchildren has been decided by people who apparently failed to understand that their vote counted!!! Now I don't know how many people that actually is, and whether it would have made a difference to the outcome, but its always the floating voter that decides an election, and this was probably no different. I suspect quite a few will be regretting their vote as they see the pound plunge and jobs disappearing.

  • What you say Ruthi rings true.

    Apparently, the percentage of people that didn't vote, were likely to be on the side of remain. They assumed the remain would win by a large majority, so didn't need to vote.

    The leave voters turned out to ensure their vote was counted, they knew they had to because the remain had a bigger margin in the polls.

    So, if those that didn't vote bothered to go and vote, the result would have been the reverse, and by a bigger margin. That is exactly why we're seeing a lot of interviews in the media of people who are utterly shell shocked. I can't tell you how many younger people have admitted they didn't bother because they thought it was a forgone conclusion, now wishing they could turn back time.

    I'd guarantee if there was another vote tomorrow, the turnout would be higher and remain would win!

    I honestly don't know what is happening and how we can go forwards with anything at the minute. It's all gone crazy with each party deeply divided and in turmoil, no one knows what to do or where to begin

  • I wish that such a huge and final constitutional change had been properly prepared for. In most states with a written constitution, like the US, such a decision cannot be made by a simple majority vote. It is usually necessary to require something like a two-thirds majority, by two-thirds of the eligible electorate. Of course, we have no written constitution, but a special provision could have been made nonetheless.

  • It still has to be approved in (our largely pro-Europe) Parliament. It is not binding. It was nothing more than a divisive and expensive opinion poll.

  • Well, you're quite right, but there seems to be some momentum amid the utter political chaos. For one thing, the EU clearly wants us to leave asap.

  • I don't blame them. :-)

  • I admit I don't know if or how this would have changed the outcome, but a great number of people were prevented from voting by a weather event in south London which caused extensive travel disruption. Polling stations were forced to closed and no fewer than three rail companies reported major disruptions. Waterloo Station was closed due to overcrowding. Some people had to be rescued by boat and London Fire Brigade reported over 400 incidents incl properties damaged by lightning strikes.

    It was possible, even on the day, to apply for an emergency proxy vote, but I suspect most people affected didn't know that and/or expected to get home before 10pm.

    Only mentioning this because there were a lot of people who wanted to vote who couldn't, and for them it wasn't a matter of couldn't be bothered.

  • I had forgotten about the disruption on that day. My son-in-law's plane was delayed and he did not know about the proxy emergency vote until too late.

  • I think it has been forgotten in the subsequent kerfuffle. Also there were so many nearby areas that were unaffected, so you only knew about it if you were in it or heard it on the news. I only live maybe 5-8 miles from Kingston (where polls were closed) and we had no rain at all.

  • ruthi, please do not assume brexit people are racist because they want a democratic country and to govern themselves , why is that racist? what is your definition of racist?

  • Not all brexiters are racist.

    But all racists...

  • Whether you are or are not racist or xenophobic, the Brexiteers have thrown their (and our) lot in with the far right. Now we're all on the same side. This has shown them how powerful they can be.

    The 'non-racist' argument is like saying you only voted for a fascist because they made the trains run on time; the outcome is the same. And it's too late to protest now that that's not what you meant, the deed is done.

  • unfortunately the far right blights the normal decent brexiteers do not tie everyone with the same brush.

  • Hi all - interesting debate.... In a democracy, we have to accept the "majority" decision (albeit a very slim majority). I am from Glasgow and pro Scottish independence - I know what it's like to be on the "loosing" side - I was devastated and couldn't understand why any Scot wouldn't want to have their own government and be part of self-determination. I would like to say that I love (and visit) England frequently and have always been made to feel welcome and have several relatives there. I have two Muslim families on either side of me and have been brilliant in supporting me and helping with my kids when I was very ill at the tail end of last year. I have not heard of anyone here being told to "go home" and it's sad that a few ppl in England are behaving in such a horrid way.

    Re B12, I stocked up from last week so have about 30 doses, just in case this happened. I believe things will settle and we will all have to adjust - and we will! I still hope to be part of an independent Scotland before I leave this Earth - but anyone is welcome here, whatever their colour, nationality or B12 status. English "refugees" also welcome!

    Good health to you all x

  • I may be one of those English refugees! :-)

  • They are just bullies ,,,,, nobody resident here will be sent back ,it's to control to many more coming in for now until we can help ??

  • nobody resident here will be sent back

    How do you know?

  • I found this presentation by Michael Dougan, Professor of Law at Liverpool University, interesting. It's 24 minutes long so make yourself a brew and settle down in a comfy chair:

  • So what do.. Keep voting until we get what you want ? People fought & died for this democratic Country to have freedom & freedom of speech . So we have to accept that majority rules !! & do the best for our children's future !!

  • The Brexit camp have no idea how our new system will work because I don't think they expected to win so were only ever a loud protest voice, especially Boris Johnson.

    Why the country has listened to such a buffoon and voted for him is beyond me - but then this whole referendum only came about because during the election Cameron, fearing another coalition government offered this referendum to increase the Conservative vote but then they did won outright and he had to follow through with the referendum and it has jumped up and truly bit him in the bum - what was he thinking?

  • Boris is not a buffoon at all. That's just an act to fool the public. He's a truly nasty, scheming, evil character who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He and his Brexit pals lied continuously throughout the worst political campaign I have ever witnessed and appear to have had no plans for what would happen if they actually won. The Remain lot were almost as bad and they didn't regard it as their responsibility to plan for what would happen if they lost. So now nobody has a clue what to do. What a ******* shambles.

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