For those who have read George Orwell's '1984' and have ever tried to imagine the dystopian nightmare of such a twisted 'Ministry of Truth' ever taking hold within our own 21st century society, such lunacy was probably quickly dismissed as completely absurd. After all, the depraved form of sub-humanity that could possibly presume themselves in a position to control the flow of otherwise free thought and conclude 'truth' for the rest of society surely couldn't exist among thinking, socially aware people in today's society, right? Such a degenerate thought process would be roundly ridiculed, condemned, and immediately discharged from any and all position/s of authority, right???
Apparently not. It's now become apparent that this precise form of depraved sub-humanity has penetrated the ranks of big tech, big corporation (*esp. big pharma), main stream media, Hollywood, academia, and most recently, even our once respectable HU 'Forum' itself.
Perhaps the saddest, most tragic figure/s in all of this, is this latter sub-set of sub-humans, the cowardly pawns who meekly and mutely stand by and - out of sheer convenience to their immediate interests - allow it to happen. Now (for the third attempt) I am posting a presentation by one group of licensed, accredited doctor's outlining their views of the latest experimental vaccine (*scroll down, click & view quickly before lesser minds deem you unworthy): americasfrontlinedoctors.co...
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If not for HU HQ's well-established predilection for censoring language/thought in accordance with the latest WokeTopian mandate, such "preamble" would be unnecessary.
So, I've watched the videos and would like to ask you some questions. I'm going to watch the video again and I may have more questions.
These are not intended to be gotcha questions.
In the video she referred to the US governments and many medical institutions published positions re safety and efficacy of the vaccination as the big lie. That raises the question with me how many entities are involved in the big lie? Is every established medical entity/institution involved in the big lie?
There are numerous lesser-known, less well reputed independent organizations and laboratories which have done their own review of the data such as consumer Lab, scientific America, etc. Are they in collaboration to publish deceptive information?
For example, she said that the Lancet, which is the most well-respected medical journal in the world, withdrew their article, (which I have not yet verified,) but other journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine have not. I quote them below.
So, my question is, is the New England Journal of Medicine involved in the big lie? Are all of the medical institutions that publish articles on the effectiveness such as Mayo Clinic, Cleveland clinic, Johns Hopkins, etc. all involved in the big lie, that is, none of these institutions interpret the data differently?
My 2nd question is what is the self-interest of these institutions to be part of the big lie, i.e., how does the University of Minnesota, for example, benefit financially from being part of the big lie?
Efficacy of BNT162b2 against Covid-19 after the First Dose.
Among 36,523 participants who had no evidence of existing or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose were observed among vaccine recipients and 162 among placebo recipients. This case split corresponds to 95.0% vaccine efficacy (95% confidence interval [CI], 90.3 to 97.6; Table 2). Among participants with and those without evidence of prior SARS CoV-2 infection, 9 cases of Covid-19 at least 7 days after the second dose were observed among vaccine recipients and 169 among placebo recipients, corresponding to 94.6% vaccine efficacy (95% CI, 89.9 to 97.3). Supplemental analyses indicated that vaccine efficacy among subgroups defined by age, sex, race, ethnicity, obesity, and presence of a coexisting condition was generally consistent with that observed in the overall population (Table 3 and Table S4). Vaccine efficacy among participants with hypertension was analyzed separately but was consistent with the other subgroup analyses (vaccine efficacy, 94.6%; 95% CI, 68.7 to 99.9; case split: BNT162b2, 2 cases; placebo, 44 cases). Figure 3 shows cases of Covid-19 or severe Covid-19 with onset at any time after the first dose (mITT population) (additional data on severe Covid-19 are available in Table S5). Between the first dose and the second dose, 39 cases in the BNT162b2 group and 82 cases in the placebo group were observed, resulting in a vaccine efficacy of 52% (95% CI, 29.5 to 68.4) during this interval and indicating early protection by the vaccine, starting as soon as 12 days after the first dose."
I start with this angle not to make a contradictory case, but because I have trouble imagining executives of these institutions calling each other up and collaborating to publish deceptive articles.
I wish I could say that I'm surprised by the ease with which you're able to completely ignore the Lancet's colossal faux pas, then brush right past the 65 years of widespread OTC use of the drug - void of any prior controversy whatsoever - and divert to the New England Journal of Medicine in a desperate (but futile) attempt to salvage the hydroxychloroquine argument. I'm not.
I also wish I could say that I'm surprised that - almost a year after-the-fact - you remain unaware of Lancet's humiliating retraction of its fraudulent hydroxychloroquine 'study'. I'm not. FYI:
"The Lancet, one of the world’s top medical journals, on Thursday [June 4, 2020] retracted an influential study that raised alarms about the safety of the experimental Covid-19 treatments chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine amid scrutiny of the data underlying the paper.
"Just over an hour later, the New England Journal of Medicine retracted a separate study, focused on blood pressure medications in Covid-19, that relied on data from the same company."
Your reply to my question is to criticize me for brushing off the evidence you provided when I would've thought it was obvious from the timestamp, I did not have time to evaluate any of it and said as much.
I have not had time to look into it, but will. I watched the video and sent you the question that it raised for me.
The people who are claiming that the vaccination information we are given is fraudulent are labeling it "the big lie." I do not put it past our government for even a New York second that they're capable of big lies, just as I believe they're capable of incompetence, i.e., that they got it wrong re the vaccination, but (your) substantiating the position that it is a big lie is a legitimate aspect of this controversy for others to evaluate.
So, is every medical institution & scientific journals that comport with the government's position that the Covid vaccinations are safe and effective willfully deceiving the population? The New England Journal of Medicine believes the vaccinations are safe and effective. Are they collaborating or conspiring to deceive the public?
Marc, I do not want to turn this in a political debate and I want to assure you of my respect. I always was and I'm still politically neutral. 95% of the media proved to be aligned to a certain ideology and I doubt the medical press is an exception. If you asked me the question you asked PDC I would say YES and I want to clarify my answer. My YES means 95% of the media is aligned with the current administration as it was against the previous. It is the subject in this case a "big lie"? I do not know, it could be or it could not but for sure the medical press tries not to cross the government line.
Regarding the vaccine I'm neutral ,too, and I think everybody should decide for him/herself. In my case I compare the risks of having or not having the vaccine. I'm waiting for more data. I taught a vaccine should protect us for life against a disease but in this case everything is very ambiguous and the politics are part of it.
Thank you ion. I don't want it to be a political debate either because it distracts from the substance. I respect those positions that differ from mine and I would appreciate it robust discussion which to me means reading each other's comments carefully and responding accordingly.
Personally, I think the anti-vaccination position would be more credible if it was based on the claim that the scientists got it wrong instead of the claim that the scientists are lying.
Marc, for every project the time is critical. When a project is done under the time pressure it may have issues. In that situation the people involved may try to cover them up. It is human nature. People should not be pro or anti, everyone should decide for him/herself. Sometimes there was contradicting information coming from CDC (masks bad - masks good; quarantine after vaccine - no quarantine after the vaccine; there is no pandemic - there is a pandemic). Because of this many people got confused and lost their trust.
Ion , most virus are euphemistically called a ''bug'' or "a Flu " and we all get one now and then, if we HAD a book to identify it, as the speaker said , the new bug would get a new name as all organisms are constantly MUTATING that is why we are told to get a Flu Shot yearly
So, by posting the AFLDS' presentation of valid concerns behind the ongoing vaccination campaign I am "substantiating the position that it is a big lie"?
You shouldn't wonder why such conclusions merit no response.
Upon rereading your comments, in particular your reply to faridaro, they seemed to me you are supporting the AFLD position that the vaccinations are not safe or effective. If that is not your position, I stand corrected.
I've been deep diving into covid vaccines information and came across of this very troubling issue of ADE - antibody dependent enhancement (or pathogenic priming) which can cause cytokine storm and severe Covid infection if a vaccinated individual exposed to the so called "wild" virus after vaccination.
Here's one interesting piece of literature on this subject - Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID‐19...
"Phase 1 and 2 clinical trials of vaccine candidates have only been designed around immunogenicity as an efficacy end point and have not been designed to capture exposure of subjects to circulating virus after vaccination, which is when ADE/immunopathology is designed to occur. Thus, the absence of ADE evidence in COVID‐19 vaccine data so far does not absolve investigators from disclosing the risk of enhanced disease to vaccine trial participants, and it remains a realistic, non‐theoretical risk to the subjects."
And there is an article written by a former Harvard Medical School professor who has founded more than a dozen biotechnology companies. He also serves as chair and president of the global health think tank Access Health International:
"Some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect, a phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE has been observed in previous attempts to develop coronavirus vaccines. To add to the concern, antibodies typical of ADE are present in the blood of some COVID-19 patients. Such concerns are real. "
And the following statement issued by the WHO Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) regarding Moderna vaccine posted on WHO website:
"We do not know whether the vaccine will prevent infection and protect against onward transmission. Immunity persists for several months, but the full duration is not yet known. These important questions are being studied."
You would have to scroll down to the very end to find this information.
And there is a number of respected clinicians and researchers across the globe who are raising concerns about "vaccine associated disease enhancement" and other potential side effects but you won't get to hear about them on the news.
Awesome results from your deep dive, Farido. The apparent clinical trial prioritization of 'immunogenicity' as an 'efficacy end point' in itself - while minimizing the very real threat of future ADE issues as a yet unresolved threat - adds valuable context to the stance taken by Dr. S.Gold/AFLDS doctors. As the Harvard Medical School professor stated (the one who founded over a dozen biotechnology companies), "some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect".
And, as SAGE concedes, "We do not know whether the vaccine will prevent infection and protect against onward transmission. Immunity persists for several months, but the full duration is not yet known. These important questions are being studied."
In short, critical questions clearly remain but (speaking strictly for myself) when given the survival odds of greater than 99% WITHOUT the vaccine, and considerable concerns still outstanding among those WITH the vaccine, I think I'll just tap into my ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine stash upon first sign of sniffles... at least unless/until more favorable answers to unanswered questions appear.
Forum members that fall into the '70-year +' age range are advised to work with a trusted, competent, free thinking physician to determine best treatment options for themselves at each stage of their condition (prophylactic, early/late therapeutic, etc) throughout the duration of the pandemic.
*If a person has found a physician who - in response to the appearance of early symptoms - advises 'patience/vigilance' until positive diagnosis is confirmed or until hospitalization is merited, a rapid replacement may be wise.
Because they would not recommend against the vaccination for 70+ and because I have to travel abroad, I'm going with mainstream medical profession and all the governments on this one. I get my 2nd dose of Pfizer this Saturday.
Thank you for the summary. I am surprised how little is known about ADE especially after Sanofi's Dengue fever vaccine (Dengvaxia) fiasco just a few years ago. Even though it was studied for years in clinical trials but then hundreds of Pilipino children died from ADE after vaccinations:
Ever heard of a site called bitchute? Its largely made up with independent media sources, there's def some pure rubbish in there, however from what I have been told in the US, 6 companies (conglomerates) control the hundreds of media channels and outlets.
And from what I understand they generally speak with the same voice, this speaks louder to me than the messaging being pushed. Now if they are all saying you need the vaccine and also are generally relating the same "conspiracy theories " are trying to draw you away from what the truth about the covid19 vaccine, then im wondering who is the beneficiary from having 6 competing media outlets all spewing the same message.
I feel it's the reporting on the actions of the left hand whilst the right hand is left to do its own thing is what's dodgy
Please humor us by using simple words in your writing. By stringing together a bunch of high sounding words and attempting to concoct a so called sentence, you are effectively limiting your audience. You might even benefit from a software called Grammarly.
If not for the fact that someone of the caliber of @mbanderson caliber chose to engage with you , I would have blown past your post without reading it. I am still trying to digest what you have been trying to communicate. Honestly. If you are a non native English speaker, it still doesn't behoove you. There is no point in keeping your audience nonplussed. 😂😉😅🤔😝
Btw, how is this even remotely related to Parkinson’s?
I would like to respectfully disagree with you re regarding its relevance. Any current, widespread, highly contagious illness (as in a lethal pandemic) that might threaten the PD community more so than healthy people, personally, I feel is relevant.
It's relevance is this; if because of our health, we are more likely to die or suffer long-term, debilitating consequences which might be prevented by certain actions, i.e., vaccinations, mask wearing, social distancing, etc. the people on this forum are well served by being educated on the issues.
I agree with your other sentiments, though. PD and the others are making a compelling case which I would get deeply involved in -- if only they were willing to answer the tough questions, i.e., is the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland clinic, John Hopkins, New England Journal of Medicine all intentionally and willfully conspiring in the big lie to deceive the population because it's in their self-interest????????
As I listen to the videos and read the material provided by those who feel the vaccinations are not safe or effective, I find the content persuasive.
And I agree there is a lot we do not know. We do not know what its effect on the placenta is, but that doesn't affect me. We do not know it's long-term health consequences, but that doesn't affect me. The things we do not know about it don't affect PWP 70 +.
However, unless you are competent to understand molecular biology, infectious disease control, and virology well enough to read, understand, and interpret the data on your own, then the only way for you to make a decision is based on who you choose to rely on to do that for you.
All the information provided on this thread is from forum members presenting us with other people’s analysis.
Personally, I think the anti-vaccination position would be more credible if it was based on the claim that the scientists got it wrong instead of the claim that the scientists are lying because to believe it's a "big lie," you would have to believe that the literally thousands of scientists all over the world are part of the most extensive and elaborate conspiracy of all time having agreed to sacrifice millions of lives for their own financial gain.
You have to believe that CEO of Mayo Clinic has been on the phone with the CEO of John Hopkins and they call up the scientists in Sweden and Czechoslovakia and say to the effect of, “Yes, we will join with you and publish false information about the vaccination because it’ll bring in more revenue for our clinic, never mind that we would be killing millions of people.”
The Michael J Fox foundation, The National Parkinson’s Foundation and every major Parkinson’s organization has taken the position of PWP should get the vaccination.
However, I've told my wife that if I am wrong about this and the vaccination kills me, would she please come on this forum and confess that I was wrong and others were right
Imho there are two types of approach that see things differently. clinicians and scientists and their respective organizations. If I were sick with the virus I would like a good clinician to cure me, if I had to prevent it I would listen to a scientist, but unfortunately things are not that simple.
Everything is complicated by politics and money. However, the clinicians are the ones who reported the first cases in China, paying a very high personal price. Scientists depend on governments.
Definition of clinician
1 : a person qualified in the clinical practice of medicine, psychiatry, or psychology as distinguished from one specializing in laboratory or research techniques or in theory.
@giocas, I would just like to throw this out there that the world treats every nation by the amount of power that nation wields. Do we really know how the whole thing panned out and China's role in all of this? I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but any one action can result in unexpected results. The pandemic made the world's rich, richer and China's economy stronger. Unfortunately, it also exposed the inability of the most powerful nations of the world to protect their citizens.
Imagine for a moment that the virus had originated from Iran instead of China. We pulverized two nations - Afghanistan and Iraq for hosting a human evil "virus" of Osama Bin Laden, in retaliation for tbr 3000 lives that were lost in the 9/11 attacks. We are about to cross 500,000 lives lost to Covid-19. The. pathogen was called the "enemy virus" and that means that effectively the virus was harbored by China and was given "aid and comfort" by China. What is the difference in Afghanistan or Pakistan harboring the "enemy bin Laden" and China harboring the "enemy virus?"
If the virus had originated in Iran, I would guarantee that that nation would have been obliterated. The fine nuances of whether it came from a lab or from the wild would not have mattered.
It seems to me that nobody really knows the full extent of benefits and side effects of these vaccines (yet). Even CDC states: "People with autoimmune conditions may receive an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. However, they should be aware that no data are currently available on the safety of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines for them."cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc...
Since the emerging data suggests that PD can be autoimmune disease I would like to have more information on the potential side effects of the vaccine to weigh risks and benefits in order to make an informed decision.
😂. I’m in agreement with everything you said. Thanks for posting Marc.
By the way, I thought it weird that they renamed it Covid 19 when historically these diseases have been named after places of inception. That made sense to me. The Dr was wrong however in that the Spanish Flu did not originate in Spain. Makes me wonder, what else did she get wrong?
I think its a good idea to name the disease after location of inception as it’s been done for many years. I don’t buy into the name promoting prejudice at all. Think that’s a bunch of crap. But I also don’t buy into that it’s a “Big Lie” either. No room for politics, especially political correctness on either side of the aisle when it comes to horrible issues of this nature.
Spanish flu was a flu strain, a variant on seasonal flu epidemics, and didn't originate in Spain. It originated in Kansas USA, but was first reported in Spain because their freedom of speech allowed it to be honestly reported.
The objection to "china virus" is not that it references China, but that it is not the internationally agreed virus name, and was made up by an orange toddler to blame someone else, as an alternative to taking responsibility for addressing the American problem and allowing in excess of 500000 Americans to die from it
According to his/her post the single country where people died of C19 is only the USA because of an orange buffoon. But we are lucky now with the white old senile buffoon who is saving us.
Gio2 and a half million people are dead from this disease. Including my Dad. Largely because too many people trivialise it because facing reality interferes with their way of life. Or like the Italians just tell bare faced lies about it. It got going in Europe in Italy because Italy wasn't ready but deliberately dishonesty claimed it was
The point is liability, often confused with civil liability in law which defines liability as fault. But in my world the responsibility is "taking care of ..." which requires there is will and ability with knowledge. In this context there is the good father of a family who takes care of providing for the sustenance of his family (economy) or of the mother who takes care of the education of the children avoiding that they become delinquents and their health (health) and there it is the responsibility of the children who again take care of their elderly parents with their support and I am sure it has never been lacking on your part. But what about organizations such as WHO which by statute declare that they take on a great responsibility which includes skills and knowledge and then limit themselves to issuing precautionary directives, often contradictory and when confronted with their inadequacy by the Italian judges, invoke their right to secrecy and immunity. I quote your own source "The Guardian" which at the end of the post reports a previous article entitled: "WHO accused of conspiring with Italy to remove damning Covid report".
“The Dr was wrong however in that the Spanish Flu did not originate in Spain...”
Scientists still do not know for sure where the Spanish Flu originated, though theories point to France, China, Britain, or the United States, where the first known case was reported at Camp Funston in Fort Riley, Kansas, on March 11, 1918.
As I recall she used the renaming (Wuhan Virus to Covid19) as part of the big lie. She supported it by also using Ebola, Lyme and Spanish Flu as well as other geographic locations. So she was correct using Ebola and others but wrong stating Spanish Flu to support her premise.
As Marc stated not all diseases are named after points of origin. Therefore, it seems to me to be a poor supporting argument for The Big Lie.
I didn’t and don’t listen to politicians and was disappointed with quite a few statements made by Dr. Fauci and others . As we pwp are acutely aware, sometimes it’s best if we take all into Consideration and make up our own minds how we proceed.
I’m 73 and getting 2nd shot Thursday and am very comfortable with my decision. I had close friends (as I’m sure many of us had) that passed away from this horrible disease. If I was alot younger and healthier I might think otherwise.
I assume English is not your first language. Spanish rain refers to rain occurring in Spain in context when we talk of the weather on the peninsula. If we were talking about Spanish rain in Australia that would be giving a label to a type of rain calling it of type Spanish. So Russian avian flu cases refers to avian flu happening in Russia. It's not a new label for a new disease wherever it occurs. I guess English is tricky for foreigners to master.
I was giving Roy the benefit of the doubt, as an Englishman living in France, for whom French is my 2nd language, that his comments which failed to distinguish the use of Russian as an adjective from its use as a noun were attributable to linguistic subtleties he failed to appreciate. The alternative is that he was continuing with the infantile behaviour of making up rude names for the virus that killed my father instead of wearing a face mask and washing his hands.
You are right! We should not insult the virus by calling it what it is but we should insult the people by calling them names. At least you got the right name. I taught the left wingers are very kind and gentle people who are compassionate towards the barely English speaking immigrants.
I agree and my comment was just a reply to another political comment. But on the other hand this virus and the politics are embedded together very tight. The misery brought by this virus it was and it is amplified by the politicians of all colors.
Anyhow, I promise to avoid replying to such comments in the future. You have the right to correct me if I do it again and I hope you'll do it for all rules breakers.
Well done. A lot of hot air about Pretty Dim Science-con's batty theories, which he will shortly defend with more detailed technical references to the astrologers almanac. Making him feel puffed up and important and achieving nothing. The world is full of stupid people, and I am grateful to those of them declining vaccination and making it available to me sooner.
A brief reality check. To date, 110 million people have contracted covid19 and 2.5 million have died from it, including my Dad, Auntie Brenda and Aunty Marjory.
About 205 million people have received at least 1 vaccine dose, including my Mum, Dad's sister Marian, her husband David, my sister, my neice, my mother in law. Nobody i know has suffered any adverse reaction apart from a couple of days soreness. Compared with 2.5million deaths from the virus, actual deaths from the vaccine... I doubt you need to remove your shoes and socks to use your toes to count them
And PD science-con. When I first started referencing US covid19 deaths to US war deaths you were scornful of WW1. Looks like you'll breeze past the civil war now. I wish you luck shifting that warehouse of unwanted Hydroxychloroquine 😂
I’ll be honest I’m afraid, I year I’ve done all I can to avoid the coronavirus, leaving my home only for a few dental appointments or to take a ride with my husband and kids just to get out. I have
I’m sorry pressed send to soon. I don’t know who to trust anymore, and I’ve signed up for the vaccine, I’m 55. I’m supposed to get the first shot next week. My family would like me to get it. I’m concerned because I have very severe allergies and severe asthma, my last lung xray showed scarring . I’ve had pneumonia many times. My sister who’s a nurse told me she does not want me to get the vaccine. She to look into and research the doctors PD conscience has mentioned. There’s a drug called ivermectin which has been around apparently for a very long time. Doctors have used it both prophylactically and in active Covid cases successfully. She thinks she may have access to this. (/Look up flccc)I don’t know what to do. It’s obvious to me that things aren’t right, this is not the country I grew up in. I think there is evil on both sides, But I don’t understand why these doctors were suppressed. It was not covered in the main stream media. My mother who is 89 has both shots of the Pfizer vaccine. She has little to no response from the either vaccine. On the surface that sounds great but from the doctors I’ve listened to Say when you have a response fever, chills etc It shows that your body is producing antibodies when you have a reaction. Does that mean my mother has no antibodies? Will they test her for this, can you have an antibody test or Titer taken to be sure you have the 95 percent immunity they claim? Dr. Fauci said yesterday that although he’s had both shots he will not see his own grandchildren or anyone else until they are vaccinated. Some kids they say aren’t going be vaccinated until 2022,. My 25-year-old daughter who has her own apartment had Covid in January when she recovered I called our local Covid hotline and asked can she come over to my house and can I hug her and spend time with her now since she probably can’t give it to me now. They told me still wear masks and social distance 6 feet. What difference is that? That’s what we’ve been doing. I just don’t get it, if someone had the flu and recovered and wanted to come over after they were fully recovered I wouldn’t wear a mask and would be Confident I wouldn’t get it. Now Fauci says my 89-year-old mother who lives alone he personally doesn’t think she should see anyone else until they have a vaccine. That would’ve been good information to have before she got it. Let’s not forget he initially said we didn’t need to wear masks. Trust me I think people on both sides have made mistakes But when one side is being censored it should’ve really make us all think even if they’re not your views eventually all people will be, so you should be concerned too. I’m confused and please don’t come at me with your political views. The stress of COviD and trying to manage 5
kids virtually attending school, 2 of whom at different times quarantined in my home due to being exposed to people that came down with COviD then the worry when my daughter had it since we never know for sure the outcome. My PD symptoms are worse, I’m mentally exhausted and now they are talking about these crazy variances that may not even be covered by any vaccine. What’s next?
Connie, know whether we want it or not, soon the pandemic will end and everything will be more beautiful than before. It has always been like this in history and no one knows why. Take care to your self. A warm greeting from Italy.
Thank you Gio!! Such wise words, you always bring a sense of peace and focus. I look forward with hope to a day when this crisis is behind us. There will always be some problems but hopefully easier ones! Stay well my friend!
Thank you Gio ! You are also one of the people that makes this forum worthwhile for me. Even in this post not everybody agrees but respectfully disagrees. I do not like when people put others down simply because they have a different opinion even name calling. We’ve all seen it and it’s shame.
Gotta tell you guys, I’ve felt dreadful since having the AstraZeneca about 2 weeks ago. Just exhausted all of the time. Seems to have exacerbated my PD. Easy to make an incorrect link possibly but if I could choose I’d go for Pfizer next time.
Thank you for your reply, such great advice! I am taking the vitamins but need to incorporate more of your suggestions into my life. I read your other post on this thread and it is very eye opening and informative. I will read the links you included. Thank you again I really appreciate it as I’m sure it is obvious I’m a little overwhelmed lately! It’s an important discussion. Take care,
Since there is a lot of conflicting information, but we should realize both sides are not equal.
To repeat my previous comment, I base my decision on the following.
Every large university and every major medical institution, without exception, advises getting the vaccination. To ignore their recommendation, one has to believe that all of them misunderstand the data. Or, are all conspiring - with each other - to deceive us.
Neither conclusion can possibly be true.
These medical institutions are several hundred million dollars per year operations. They do not rely on others when taking positions on public health issues. They do their own analysis independent of the CDC and everyone else.
Also, what I just said about US institutions is true of those same institutions all over the world -- to include institutions and the governments of Israel, Scandinavia, Eastern & Western Europe, Africa, etc. etc.
It is just not possible that the thousands of scientists have all gotten it wrong or are all collaborating in a deception. It is just not possible.
PS. You referenced having possible lung issues and the opinion of family members who are nurses. My daughter-in-law is a nurse and my sister-in-law is a nurse and both have been vaccinated. My wife is a recently retired professor from the Department of Nursing at the University of Minnesota. She has pulmonary issues, too, and recently got the 2nd dose -- for whatever that's worth.
(My wife just came in and said the woman in the video is wacko.) Ha.
I have complete respect for you M.B., I think you know that. What do you think about the age difference? You mentioned yourself I think to be 75 and it’s mostly recommended to people age 70 and above. I’m 55 my youngest is only 12, I am concerned about having a reaction to the vaccine. I’ve have had a severe allergic reaction before and carry an epi-pen. I agree there is a woman Dr. in the group that seemed “out there”. The rest that I listened to seemed very respectable. A different female physician who spoke intelligently and worked for about 20 years at the same hospital, after speaking out with this group she was fired for it, what happened to freedom of speech? She hired a lawyer and has her job back. I think we can all agree that the vaccine was rushed die
I keep pressing send! My fingers aren’t working their best today...due to the pandemic, I heard vaccines typically require animal studies but this phase was skipped due to expediting the vaccine.
See if this link works, this hospital is a mile from my house. I still have a lot of thinking to do over the next week before my appointment (2 hrs away). I just think it’s important to have options and all the facts. Why is the info suppressed? Why can’t adults make up their own minds? Maybe someone out there is allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine and didn’t know there might be something they could take that is supposed to prevent it. I think we should all be outraged if any information is ever censored. If this video works it may be crucial information if you or a loved one gets COVID-19. This is the hospital I’d go to and if my health is in jeopardy from COviD I’m having my husband call these same lawyers. I hope none of us ever need it.
In BC Canada , I have read the brochure about what we will do after the injection, that is we HAVE to wait for a minimum of 15 minutes before leaving the clinic, in case you have a reaction. Find out the what your clinics procedure is. Good luck for no reaction.
I am 20 years older and age does matter. If I were your age, I'd be less worried than I am. I thought they did animal trials, but could be wrong, If so or if not is irrelevant now. Yes, it was rushed and yes, a lot of intelligent people speak calmly and with persuasive explanations against it, so if that means something to you, then I fall back on my rational -- for every one of them there are 100, whose job it is to know, who speak for it. (I doubt 10% of the cheering audience in the video examined the data.)
I find MEDCRAM a good source of info.
The best advice I can offer is to take it up with your doctor, then get a 2nd opinion from your neurologist.
My 3 children are in their 40s, each with 3 children, and if by some miracle, they were to ask my advice, I'd tell them to get the vaccination.
Disagree with the statement - "Every large university and every major medical institution, without exception, advises getting the vaccination." - this may be the case in the US but there is no universal consensus about long-term vaccine safety around the world.
Dr. Tetsuo Nakayama, a project professor at Kitasato Institute for Life Sciences and director of the Japanese Society of Clinical Virology, says although the vaccines under development by Pfizer and Moderna successfully created antibodies in trials, there are still doubts about whether those antibodies remain a year or two after vaccination.
There are also underlying concerns about the vaccines’ safety over the long term. Judging from past precedents, their safety and effectiveness are not something that can be determined until at least a year after a massive number of vaccinations have been administered, experts say.
In a worst-case scenario, antibodies could worsen the disease by essentially helping the infection of cells — a phenomenon called antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) — rather than fighting the virus pathogens.
For example, a dengue fever vaccine made by Sanofi, based on a yellow fever vaccine embedded with a part of the dengue virus genome, at first appeared to be effective. But it caused the deaths of children who had been given the vaccination due to the ADE phenomenon.
“Concerns over ADE still remain. I am an elderly person myself, but if I were asked, I would say I don’t want to get a shot,” Nakayama said. “Not all of the 120 million people (in Japan) should get the vaccinations. Children, for example, would not need it because there’s scarcely any risk of severe cases. "
I have acknowledged (above) there is no data re long term safety and there are not answers to our every concern.
The decision is a balancing act between what we know and what we don't know.
"In a worst-case scenario, antibodies could worsen the disease by essentially helping the infection of cells — a phenomenon called antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) — rather than fighting the virus pathogens." While this is true for some vaccines, I thought this is not true for Pfizer or Maderna.
We could disagree over whether or not the Japanese Society of Clinical Virology is a medical institution. I would say not. They are a membership organization and probably the members have a say in their work and positions. I should have stuck with saying universities and hospitals, i.e., people who have to make clinical decisions. (Maybe more of a think tank/opinion maker)
Agree, the society may not be as credible as university. I should have quoted Masayuki Miyasaka, professor emeritus of immunology at Osaka University (from the same article) : “My conclusions are that the efficacy (of those drugs) should be high, but safety has not been guaranteed, and we have to treat them with extreme caution,” he said.
Because of the possible side effects, Miyasaka said people should have the choice of whether they would get a shot.
“Only those who wish to have vaccinations should do so. It’s highly questionable to prioritize medical workers (for vaccinations). Individual wishes should be respected.”
However, Dr. Tetsuo Nakayama is also a project professor at Kitasato Institute for Life Sciences, which is a part of known university in Japan and one of its professors received a Nobel Prize.
I agree there are qualified people who raise legitimate concerns, but I cannot find a single clinical institution/hospital, university, whose organization's policy position or country which advises against the vaccination.
I consider American Frontline Doctors (the video) a political organization because they are still selling hydroxychloroquine and are published by Breitbart News.
I cannot defend my pro-vaccine position on a molecular level, because it's well above my paygrade, so I am not going to try further. I'm throwing my lot in with the preponderance of mainstream establishment healthcare positions,.
but what is the university's position. Organizations are more credible then individuals. All universities have individuals who are outside the bell curve .
Well, I am not sure about situation in Japan but here in the US the drug industry has powerful financial clout over universities and academic medical centers - there is definitely a conflict of interest, see article:
"F.D.A. has not yet calculated what are called background rates, the levels of certain health problems that normally occur in the non-vaccinated population. These are critical for determining whether the vaccine is actually causing a spike in certain problems, such as heart attacks, strokes, and other issues that the F.D.A. and C.D.C. consider adverse events of special interest, which require close monitoring.
Rather than calculate them on its own, as the C.D.C. does, the F.D.A. sent a proposal out for public comment, in which it detailed how it planned to compute the background rates. They plan to start working on it in the next few weeks. "
So, there is no concern regarding reversing data, just hope they will eventually get it.
Appreciate that and hope your choice will work out for you. It's good that we have freedom of choice and whatever the consequences are it's part of the life's adventure.
Very good point - there might be international travel restrictions down the road, see article:cnbc.com/2021/01/14/will-va...
Right now since vaccines are not FDA approved but authorized for emergency use only, I doubt travel restrictions can be imposed until formal FDA approval (at least in the US), however I could be wrong. Hope by then more vaccination data will be available to weigh the risks and benefits.
Not sure about some of the comments on NZ in the article above about travel but there have been only 25 deaths and population 5million, half Sweden’s population with their death toll of over 12 thousand. (So now rich Americans want to have a home in NZ too)
Thank you I most certainly will! She graduated summa cum laude from nursing school, her husband was a physician who sadly died but I remember her telling me her husband’s oncologist wanted to hire her because he was so impressed by her research into her husbands cancer. Their daughter, my niece graduated from Harvard law school. I don’t say this to brag I didn’t receive those genes, but she is very smart!
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