There is something in doxycycline - Parkinson's Movement

Parkinson's Movement

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There is something in doxycycline

iqbaliqbal
iqbaliqbal

New report fromt touteiroe etal finds that doxycycline decreases & size of Parkinsons-assoc. alpha synuclein inclusions in cells, lowers the production of mitochondrial-derived reactive oxygen species, & induces redistribution of aggregates in C.elegans

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

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Some have reported symptom relief while on a cycle of Doxycycline. Doxy crosses the blood brain barrier and inhibits the inflammatory cytokine IL-8 which is known to be elevated in the cerebrospinal fluid of PwP. Elevated IL-8 can increase the levels of other inflammatory mediators like IL-1b, IL-6 and TNF-alpha.

Art

Despe
Despe in reply to chartist

Is it an antibiotic?

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

Yes

Rhyothemis
Rhyothemis in reply to Despe

Its anti-inflammatory effects are independent of its antibacterial activity. It inhibits matrix metalloproteinases.

Despe
Despe in reply to Rhyothemis

". . .matrix metalloproteinases."

I have no scientific background. :) What does this mean? Thank you.

Rhyothemis
Rhyothemis in reply to Despe

Matrix metalloproteinases are a group of enzymes that break down collagen and some other extracellular matrix proteins. White tea is supposed to be good for preventing skin aging since it contains a substance that inhibits one or two matrix metalloproteinases (can't remember which ones). The extracellular matrix is the stuff in between cells and it is mostly collagen. A lot of TGF-beta, a signalling molecule involved in the immune system, is localized in the ECM and engages in 'solid state' signalling - it is not dissolved in fluid, it stays put and interacts with cells as they come in contact when the tissue is deformed by mechanical pressure or cells migrate . People with connective tissue disorders often have immune system problems because their collagen does not work properly and that leads to problems with TGF-beta signalling; this is also probably is at least partly why microgravity (weightlessness) that astronauts experience is so bad for so many aspects of health.

chartist
chartist in reply to Despe

Looks like you already got good answers, Despe!

Art

Despe
Despe in reply to chartist

Absolutely! I must enrich my scientific background though. :) Thanks to you, Rhyothemis, rescuema, Albert, and so many other forum members, I have and continue to learn and be educated on subjects I didn't know they even existed! PD is such a complicated enemy, like Medusa!!

iqbaliqbal,

Great findings! I was wondering if PwP could ask their doctor to prescribe it.

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

My husband was on it before he developed PD for rosacea that he had for years. I am suspicious that it disturbed his gut bacteria so personally would not take it. With a change in diet eliminating gluten and sugar and by using Allimed and berberine alternating with a probiotic and also digestive enzymes and panthethine he finally got rid of the rosacea which had kept coming back before when the doxycycline courses finished. He has also lost that PD odour that he used to have.

NRyan
NRyan in reply to LAJ12345

May I contact you regarding rosacea treatment? I also have rosacea and take Doxy (on occasion) to treat it. My rosacea is really mostly triggered if I have a cocktail. Drats!!! I guess it is telling me something I already know.

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to NRyan

Of course🙂

iqbaliqbal
iqbaliqbal in reply to LAJ12345

The use for PD patients involves low dose (100mg a day) which will not be harmful for the gut

NRyan
NRyan in reply to iqbaliqbal

I take 50-100 mg day for my rosacea.

Despe
Despe in reply to iqbaliqbal

Iqbaliqbal,

Are you on a low dose of doxy? Please share with us if you take it and if it helps.

Thank you.

iqbaliqbal
iqbaliqbal in reply to Despe

I had discontinued it after 3 weeks of use only. The reason was that I sought advice of Simon (of sopd) and his reply was"My personal position hasn't changed: using antibiotics at sub-therapeutic doses is the best way to trigger the emergence of resistance. 80% of us wouldn't be here if not for antibiotics. Our main line of defense & yet we are so reckless with them. Sorry for the rant

I will ask the Brazilians and French researchers how they are doing with the isolating the neuroprotective elements of these antibiotics - will let you know the answer"

However after coming across the repeated studies, I am getting convinced that there is something in doxycycline for PD

I like his blog, but that argument makes no sense to me. As noted above, low dose doxy is already prescribed for rosacea. Doxy is also used as a fish antibiotic for home aquarium use.

There's experimental evidence that it could be used to prevent aortic dissection and other complications of connective tissue disorders. People with connective tissue disorders often have dysregulated immune response; TGF-beta is localized in the extracellular matrix.

Despe
Despe in reply to iqbaliqbal

Would appreciate it if you let us know any additional information you find out on Doxy.

iqbaliqbal
iqbaliqbal in reply to Despe

The author of the Brazilian study had shared with me an email of neurologist (written to the author) with some interesting stuff"I came across your paper on possible effect on tetracyclines on Parkinon's Disease and enjoyed reading it. I am a practicing neurologist in the US and primarily see PD patients. I was not aware of such effect until one of my PD patients with severe freezing of gait took doxycycline 100 mg twice a day for sinusitis and noted his gait substantially improved for the period he took it. I started him on a low dose of doxycycline 40mg daily - Oracea that is available in the US for rosacea treatment and then doubled it. I think I managed to improve his gait and I am contemplating on starting a small double blinded clinical trial with Oracea and would like your opinion on what doses mg/kg to choose for this trial. I look forward to communicating with you or your group if you have interest on this front.

Thanks in advance and for your group's nice review of evidence on this front.

Best Regards,

Arash Fazl, MD, PhD"

Despe
Despe in reply to iqbaliqbal

Thank you for sharing this email--very interesting! So what do we do??

Despe
Despe in reply to LAJ12345

Thank you! My husband takes probiotics, digestive enzymes and betain per our homeopathic doctor's instructions. Wouldn't that help if he starts on a low dose of doxycycline?

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

I don’t know. All I know is that my husbands rosacea and Parkinson’s smell has gone with the above treatment whereas it would come back worse every time he stopped taking doxycycline.

Despe
Despe in reply to LAJ12345

Thank you. I will talk to our PC doctor and see if he is willing to prescribe it. He doesn't have rosacea or PD smell though.

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

I am not recommending doxycycline. I am recommending Thorne berberine, allimed, probiotics, now digestive super enzymes and you can get all of those with no prescription. And removing gluten and sugar from the diet.Personally I would avoid doxycycline. It was the first pharmaceutical my husband was on before developing PD and seemed to lead to a string of new symptoms requiring more pharmaceuticals. I would try and bring inflammation down in other more natural ways myself. Of course he might had developed them without doxy too but can’t retest that theory with a sample size of 1!

Despe
Despe in reply to LAJ12345

He is on all that good stuff!

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

Berberine and allimed?

Despe
Despe in reply to LAJ12345

No, not these two. I have to do some searching.

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to Despe

They are the antibiotic equivalent . Allimed is from garlic. Berberine does lots of good stuff. The probiotic replaces the good guys. For people who haven’t changed diet yet it is better to do the elimination of sugar first for a while to reduce bacteria before trying to poison it or it can make you feel quite sick before you start feeling better.

The protocol our naturopath said to do was

Berberine 2x 1 per day and allimed 3x1 per day for 4 days

Then 2x2 and 3x 2 for 3 days for week 1

Then week 2 priobiotics each day then

Back to week 1.

Alternate like this. He did it for a bout a year. Now he just does another cycle if it looks like the spots might be coming back.

Thorne berberine seems to be the best as others have grape seed as well.

Despe
Despe in reply to LAJ12345

Thanks! Good to know these two supplements are equivalent to antibiotics. Hope your husband is doing well on this protocol.

I had Lyme disease this year (we get deer in the backyard and I did not shower carefully--ticks are the size of periods). The treatment is a 10 day course of doxycycline. Lyme disease often manifests with neurological symptoms and for those who miss the early treatment window it is often confused with PD. So I got some meds accidentally for my PD! How exciting. Thanks for sharing this.

I am on Doxy right now (the last two days) for my rosacea flare-up. I have been having discomfort in my left foot the last few weeks (PD progressing) so I will see if the doxy helps with that foot discomfort. I also NEVER dream and last night I had a detailed dream that I even remember this morning. I'll keep you all posted.

MarionP
MarionP in reply to NRyan

Yes do

There was a Brazilian study on use of doxycycline for PD which was posted by me 2 years agohealthunlocked.com/parkinso...

I had contacted one of the authors regarding anecdotal evidence. She replied as follows

"Ikbal, hello,

Our group do not have authority to suggest doxycycline for human treatment. We have results in animals that need to be tested in humans.

I know two patients that are taking 100mg of doxycycline/day.

They are taking since 1 year ago.

There is no evidence that doxy cure Parkinson. What we have until now is that doxy may improve motor behavior. It means may help with gait, swelling and talk. Please, we dont have scientific tests developed for humans.

Elaine "

Despe
Despe in reply to iqbaliqbal

The improvements she mentioned are more than enough to start doxy!

If we wait for human trials, it could be too late for us. :(

I read a paper ages ago which I can’t find again that said you shouldn’t stop and restart doxycycline as it can cause extreme adverse reactions.

Do you have any evidence it won’t affect gut bacteria at a low dose, eg a human double blind trial? My husband had a faecal bacteria test done a few years ago now and he had no bifidobacterium or lactobacterium . He also has a large number of a bacteria called Corynebacterium amycolatum which is apparently often found in PWP. He had a very high ratio of aerobe to anaerobic bacteria (18.06 and the normal range is 1-2) with high levels of Streptococcus Oralis, Mitis, and constellatus, and Brevibacterium paucivorans. This was after being on doxycycline for years.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

This is concerning that doxycycline can cause anxiety and Suicidal ideation . This has been an ongoing problem for my husband but as he has been taking other meds like fluoxetine, sertraline and mirtazapine as well as doxy it is unclear which could be causing it or whether he would have developed it without them. The first signs of anxiety did start after he had been on doxycycline and before starting on the antidepressants but it has been becoming steadily worse each winter and the suicidal thoughts more frequent.

I remember trying this a few years ago with no improvement. I think I’ll give it another go though as now my balance is a problem which it might help.

Chemically modified tetracycline CMT-3: A better option than doxy?scienceofparkinsons.com/202...

Doxy is an updated version of tetracycline. I prescribed it often in my vet practice. I took it on 4 occasions. Each time it led to skin rashes made much worse by sunlight.