Hinz, 5htp, b6? : Hi, Anyone familiar... - Parkinson's Movement

Parkinson's Movement
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Hinz, 5htp, b6?

pdkid
pdkid

Hi,

Anyone familiar with this paper? Anyone on this specific mucuna / 5htp / l-tyrosine regime to manage their pd? If so, what are your experiences and what is your formula? (I know its different for everyone... Trying to figure out a new natural regime for my dad) thanks!

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

43 Replies
oldestnewest

Interesting paper. I addressed Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion here:

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

and here:

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

so that is one of the 29 depletions.

In the current paper Marty Hinz uses massive doses of vitamin B6. Not clear which version he uses.

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to park_bear

wow, this is really helpful, thanks park_bear. as someone who isnt a chemist, just someone trying to help my dad, this is all making me dizzy!

what is your current med regime? do you use the hinz protocall? how is your b6 intake?

thanks!

park_bear
park_bear
in reply to pdkid

I use small amounts of Sinemet CR and take B6 in the form of P-5-P daily between Sinemet doses. I also take high-dose thiamine which helps.

You are a true minimalist.

I take a lot of other stuff. I do not mention it because I am not sure it actually helps.

Familiar with the paper. Also look at this other paper by Hinz and associates-

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

My spouse PWP uses a protocol that mimics Hinz.

(1) 2 capsules of ‘DopaBoost‘. One in the morning and one at lunch time. It is a stack of nutrients that consist of B6, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine, Manuca/LDopa, Green Tea Extract, Quercetin.

Supplemental Facts, Patient Education/Clinical Research here-

shop.designsforhealth.com/d...

(2) 1 capsule 50 mg 5htp - Evening

(3) 1 capsule 100mg B6 (P5P) and 1 capsule 900mg NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine) - Bedtime.

She also uses a ton of other supplements to manage her ailment, bedrock being a full set of bio-available trace minerals and a B-Complex. She is still at work.

She does not use any pharmaceuticals.

All products with exception of B6 ‘Designs for Health’ and purchased on Amazon. B6 (P5P) by LifeExtension

Your mileage may vary.

Good Luck ✨🏋️‍♀️✨

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to CaseyInsights

wow, thank you for that, really helpful to see what other people are using. was she on any pharmaceuticals before? we are trying to figure out the best way to reduce and then eliminate my dad's sinemet dosages. its been 12 years and with mucuna in between, he takes two 25/100 every 3 hours.

CaseyInsights
CaseyInsights
in reply to pdkid

Spent one year Sinemet 25/100, three times a day.

2018 diagnosis. Experienced no issue on switching.

Hopefully you can blend the Sinemet with the DopaBoost and see how it goes.

The DopaBoost with Tyroseine - a dopamine precursor- should be more effective i.e. longer lasting than pure Macuna. And may also help cut the Sinemet usage. 🌺

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to CaseyInsights

when you switched, did you just do it cold turkey? thank you, this is really helpful!

CaseyInsights
CaseyInsights
in reply to pdkid

Yes. Immediate switch ✨🏋️‍♀️✨

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to CaseyInsights

wahhh no dopaboost access in canada :( and need to be connected to a practitioner there. im finding it very diffucult to source an extract here. barlowes ships to canada... will try that!

CaseyInsights
CaseyInsights
in reply to pdkid

Try Amazon. All my supplements come through Amazon USA

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to CaseyInsights

yeah, canada amazon doesnt have it either. and can only find a now brand of 15% mucuna extract. will have to just deal with trying to order from the us... thank you for the suggestions!

bepo
bepo
in reply to pdkid

That's what we have used, along with tyroseine and 5-htp

May I ask how long she has been using that regimen?

Hinz mimic from September 2019.

To apply the Hinze protocol correctly, you need to have his clinic do the RND tests (29) on your Dad, and then have them "tailor" a specific protocol for him. Presumably, Hinz's protocol is tailored based on which one of his (your Dad's) three PNs is most influential in the progression of the PD.

Not something I would advise someone without a great deal of real, clinical PD experience and legitimate testing facilities in implementing the Hinz protocol attempt, let alone attempt to mimic. Definitely complicated. Not as simple as some who have tried to replicate it without any success think. They simply don't understand the rigor this protocol requires.

Hinz is probably better known in some circles for his outspoken criticism of the use of carbidopa in any form as a adjunct (in combination) drug with L-Dopa.

Sharon

Sharon, I did get the message from the paper .... ‘don’t try this at home folks’. But as you know fools rush in where wise men fear to thread.

Luckily my spouse was using ‘DopaBoost’ before I got hold of Hinz paper. All I had to figure out was the dosage for B6, 5HTP and NAC. And that was easy.

As proof that the ‘Hinz mimic’ works, she visited her neurologist in mid December 2019 and received a prescription for Sinemet. She has not filled it, even though she will be refunded by her insurance plan.

Chalk it up to luck, or shall we say n=1 🌺

When I talked to Hinz years ago, I got the impression it was quite bit more complicated than " All I had to figure out was the dosage for B6, 5HTP and NAC. And that was easy" because he lab tested for 29 distinct RNDs. Far more than just the three(3) you mention.

Regardless, glad whatever you came up with worked.

Sharon

Oh he did have my head spinning.

But the key symptom reliving item is the Manuca/L-Dopa/ N-Acetl L-Tyrosine ratio and the quantity of COMT and MAO inhibitors present to make an effective substitute for the Levadopa/Cardidopa combo. And Designs for Health ‘DopaBoost’ gave me that, already packaged. No fiddling.

Given this critical component had been worked out, all I had to do is use the tables provided and his discussion to estimate or is it ‘guesstimate’ the B6, NAC and 5HTP levels. Also all the other nutrients he used was already somewhere in her protocol.

Finally I did kept in mind a cardinal rule of Hinz: “When nutrient-associated side effects develop it is proof that one or more nutrients have been converted to a drug.”

As no side effects developed and I had a spouse that functioned better than when she was on Sinemet, I think I have a good mimic.

My conversations with Hinz never gave me anything like your impression of what is critical and what is not, but it really doesn't matter if what you have done is working on your wife.

I'm not sure Dopaboost is what Hinz was really thinking when he required his RND testing protocol, but again it doesn't matter if you think what you have come up with is what is working. Let's hope it prevails.

Sharon

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to sharoncrayn

Thanks all for sharing your experiences, this is really helpful for me in helping my dad figure this all out. Sharon, I am wondering what the outcome of your conversations with Hinz were? Also, what is the current medicine regime you use? Thanks a lot, really appreciated

sharoncrayn
sharoncrayn
in reply to pdkid

You might want to take a minute to look at my profile. It will hopefully help you understand why I am taking time to respond to some of the issues raised on this forum.

Most of the PD individuals in the 2 support groups I manage/coordinate use sinemet possibly because they are older >65, and male, this drug is SOP for local neurologists treating PD, and my background in drug therapy (cancer trials). A few use alternative methods to deal with their PD, but they are so individualistic it wouldn't make much sense to discuss them with you.

If you live in the US, I would suggest setting up a consult with the nearest PD "Center of Excellence". The US has far and away the most of these medical centers (31-32) so find one. They aren't always the final word, but they can be much more helpful than your local physician who has limited experience with PD in comparison.

Those who wing it on their own, usually end up paying the price down the road. Don't be foolish.

Sharon

sharoncrayn
sharoncrayn
in reply to pdkid

I just listened to what Hinz and his staff had to say about their protocol. Although I disagreed with some of the things they were doing (combining amino acids together with L-dopa at the same time for example), my purpose in discussing his protocol with him was to learn what he was doing and how he was doing it. Not to claim I could it better, or I could achieve similar results without all the lab tests, etc., etc.

In conclusion (on my part), it was not something that anyone but his clinic or someone he had trained could duplicate. Therefore, very limited in its general application and therefor very narrow in scope.

Sharon

bepo
bepo
in reply to sharoncrayn

We have been using this protocol for years, figuring out the dosage on our own. The doctors we saw that were familiar with the protocol told us to continue what we were doing.

My husband is taking Hardy’s daily essential nutrients which includes b6 and restore gold which contains tyrosine, and mucuna. But this combo also has many other components. Plus he takes various other things and has changed diet and exercises. He is feeling much better than he had been but still has some symptoms . Who knows what things have contributed to improvement. See profile.

I have been using his protocol for about 10 years and continue my practice of Chiropractic. I take supplements from CHK nutrition ( Dr. Hinz's sister's company). My regimine consists of 1 NeuroReplete capsule 3x daily, 2 CysReplete 3x daily, 2 Tyrosine 3x daily and most importantly I take 4.75 gms of mucuna powder (natural source of 98% L-Dopa) 4x daily and always with some food. I also take some other supplements that provide activated B vitamins, Vit E (recently) and fish oil. It has served me well. One of the advantages on this program is that I can increase my L-Dopa as needed by very small increments. To get started with this program you really need to work with NeuroResearch (Dr. Hinz's company)

I wish you the best

Now back to my current healing venture, my headspace. I am looking at Dr. Joe Dispenza's work through meditation.

I don't remember exactly what "percentage" MP Hinz used in his n=1 study, but I don't believe it was 98-100%. I think it was somewhere around 40%, but in his n-1 it was quite a large amount.

You are taking almost 20 grams per day. Correct?

Why did you choose to use 98-100%? Had you tried 40% before?

Why with meals? What type of meal? Carb only? Stomach issues when taken alone?

Sharon

bepo
bepo
in reply to paloshealth

Thanks for the post. Do you use the Tyrosine replete and/or the replete extra ?

paloshealth
paloshealth
in reply to bepo

tyrosine replete

bepo
bepo
in reply to paloshealth

thanks

Does the Hinz protocol restore any functions that have been lost?

No it does not restore functions lost.

Hinz thinks there is a better way to manage Parkinson’s than using the gold standard Levadopa/Cardidopa. From his paper linked to at the top of thread -

‘The following approach definitively addresses PD, L-dopa, and carbidopa-associated side effects and adverse reactions which interfere with achieving optimal L-dopa results.’

Link to it here again -

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Thank you

Is this the same Martin Hinz?

quackwatch.org/11Ind/hinz.html

Yes, that the same guy - Martin Hinz

Who knows I too might get a write up in quack watch 😰

Great article. Many thanks for sharing.

If you have the funds to do so, the best person to work with when using these amino acids for the treatment of Parkinson's disease is Dr. Chad Oler at naturalpathhealthcenter.com... He isn't like most naturopaths; very scientifically literate and has been utilizing the research of Dr. Hinz since 2001. He is probably the most experienced clinician in the world at using this methodology as Dr. Hinz doesn't see patients directly. I know a significant amount about the amino acid protocol and the underlying mechanisms by which it works, so if you have any questions regarding it, ask away.

Yes I researched it and take most of the suggested aminos and vitamins and B1. It does help and I won't stop them. Good research by Dr. Hintz and others back him up.

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to rideabike

What is your regime? What are your doses? Did you transition into taking these from taking pd meds like sinemet? Thanks a lot!

rideabike
rideabike
in reply to pdkid

I was not diagnosed with PD but dystonia and have been using Mucuna for over a year because it worked and many symptoms are PD but also atypical Parkinsonism. It's all a big ? for now but these supplements have helped: B1 500mg, L-tyrosine 500mg. 5HTP 100mg, B6 75mg, N-acetyl cysteine 600mg. D3 1000 Vit. C 1000, B12 100mcg.

In order to sleep I take L-theanine 225mg, melatonin 5 mg, 1/4 tsp. taurine amino acid powder (1000mg.), Ashwagandha 400mg. and magnesium CALM 205mg.

It is a lot of supplements but I have a life now I'm happy to say. No meds except my thyroid medication and Mucuna.

pdkid
pdkid
in reply to rideabike

Thank you, really helpful! Also, glad you found a regimen that works for you

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