Dear all
We have seen many articles and researches about the gut-brain axis in PD but little about the ways to improve the gut microbime with using relevant probiotics. May I ask you please to share your thoughts and experiences only about using probiotics and their effects on your PD symptoms and progression.
Many thanks
Kia
I was given Mutaflor by my integrative GP straight away. It’s impossible to know if it helped as she prescribed about a billion things! However, that was her suggestion prior to and after feacal tests.
Interesting side note - that it was apparently created for hitler by his personal GP as he had PD!
Mutaflor has very interesting history, just wish it were tested for PD treatment, as far as i understand up to now it's been studied only for irritable bowel disease. But here is the story:
"100 Years Later: The Lone German Soldier Whose Poop Fights on
FEBRUARY 10TH, 2017
And why we shouldn’t always treat E. coli as the enemy.
This week, we’re going back in time.
Precisely 100 years back in time, as a matter of fact, to bring you the fascinating story of a remarkable strain of bacteria that was first isolated on a World War I battlefield in the Balkans, back in 1917.
At that time, the Romanian and Russian armies were fighting the forces of the Central Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria) in a Balkan region called Dobrudja, which lies between the lower reaches of the Danube and the Black Sea.
Dobrudja now straddles Romania and Bulgaria.
Much of the fighting was taking place in what sounds like thoroughly unpleasant marshland, heavily contaminated with enteric pathogens: the types of bacteria that can make people very sick, and not exactly a great environment for soldiers whose officers expected them to be fighting fit.
The German army had been particularly affected by intestinal infections, and thus welcomed a visit from a physician and bacteriologist from Freiburg, named Alfred Nissle (later, Professor Nissle) who examined patients in field hospitals, and also collected stool samples from soldiers who had been unaffected by intestinal infections.
A hundred years ago, there were no antibiotics, so Nissle rather liked the idea of using harmless strains of bacteria as a kind of living drug, which could inhibit the growth of bacterial species responsible for intestine-based diseases. Salmonella, for example.
In particular he was interested in E. coli.
Now, E. coli, or Escherichia coli, to give it its full name, is something of a Jekyll and Hyde microorganism.
Some strains of E. coli can make people extremely sick, while others promise great therapeutic potential.
The E. coli species as a whole was first identified in 1885 by another German, Professor Theodor Escherich.
Possibly a modest man, he originally called it Bacterium coli commune, but eight years after his death, others decided it should be renamed Escherichia coli, in honor of the man who discovered it.
Anyway, back to Nissle in 1917, who was busy collecting stool samples from German soldiers in Dobrudja (well, someone had to do it).
He became intrigued by one man in particular, a non-commissioned officer, who had remained stubbornly healthy, while most of the other men in his unit had fallen sick.
Nissle said: “In contrast to the large majority of his comrades, he had suffered neither from dysentery nor from any other intestinal diseases.”
On examining the stool specimen collected from this (sadly unidentified) officer, Nissle found a particular strain of E. coli that appeared to behave in similar ways to what we would now term a probiotic.
Perhaps lacking the modesty of Escherich, he immediately labelled this strain E. coli strain Nissle 1917, since abbreviated to EcN.
In his laboratory, Nissle tested different bacterial strains for their abilities to suppress the growth of typhoid bacteria, and it was EcN that he found most effective in its antagonistic actions.
Clearly certain he was onto something, Nissle grew the strain on agar plates, then packed it into small gelatin capsules, sealed with wax.
Next, knowing full well of course that the bacteria had originated from the bottom of a German soldier, he bravely popped a capsule or two into his mouth and knocked them back with a glass of water. Fortunately there were no ill effects.
These days of course, it can take many years for a drug to progress from discovery to prescription, but there was clearly less red tape a hundred years ago.
That very same year – 1917 – Nissle began manufacturing his capsules under the trade name Mutaflor (meaning flora-changing).
It’s a medication that has stood the test of time.
We know, for example, that Adolf Hitler’s physician, Theodor Morell, prescribed Mutaflor to his patient in 1936 – apparently for flatulence.
Doesn’t it make you think that Robert Harris’s book about Hitler, Fatherland, could just so easily have been called Farterland?
In fact, Mutaflor is still manufactured today, and prized for its probiotic qualities, although it isn’t legally available in the USA.
Studies have suggested that EcN may help with ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s.
Its commercial value is highlighted by its deposit as an industrially-used strain under “patent deposit” rules at the German Collection of Microorganisms and Cell Cultures – which sounds like a fun place for a day trip.
As far as we’ve been able to assert, the Collection’s deposit, as well as the entire output of Mutaflor manufactured since 1917, all started life in a culture grown from that stool sample collected from a single German soldier in the First World War Balkan trenches.
Demonstrating, perhaps, that not all crap business ideas are bad ones."
Very interesting! I wonder why it’s not legal in the US? Makes me think it might really work! It’s available here in Aus but very expensive.
Wow, what an interesting piece of history...how ever did you find it !!
Came across this article on one of the websites, may be ubiome. Thought it was quite fascinating.
There is a research paper from Toulouse which cautions against this bug on the basis it produces a genetic mutation in the epithelial cells of the colon , which among other things may increase the risk of colon cancer.
www6.toulouse.inra.fr/toxal...
Not one for me, I think.
Variety is one objective. Strain viability and preservation another. In the absence of any reliable independent reviews, there is an element of pot luck and risk spreading. So far I have tried, sequentially, not simultaneously, a Probiotic 7 from Holland and Barrett, Dr Mercola's mix and a newly released probiotic by Forever Living Products (jumping on the bandwagon). All contain the new darling L Acidophilus, L Rhamnos, B Longum and B Bifidum (I am on the lookout next for a probiotic without Bifidobactera)
Mercola and FLP have B Lactis
Mercola and Probio 7 have L Casei L Plantarum and S Thermophilus
Mercola also has L Brevis and L salivarus
Probio 7 also has B Breve
FLP also has L Reuteri
The standard (traditional) Yoghurt Bacteria are L Bulgaricus and S Thermophilus. Bulgaricus gives that sharp tangy taste. Trendy "Bio" yoghurts like Onken Biopot use L Acidophilus instead of Bulgaricus. Its smoother, sweeter tasting (and alleged to have wonder properties). Yoghurt is useless unless its live. Put a dessert spoon of yoghurt in a glass of milk (preferably whole milk) and leave in the airing cupboard overnight. In the morning, if you have a glass of yoghurt your original was live and very beneficial. If you have a glass of milk with a spoon of yoghurt in it was pasteurised or otherwise useless.
I also enjoy kefir, kombucha, sauekraut (planning to try kimchi), pickled gherkins, and unpasteurised cheeses (tons of gorgeous ones here in the Pyrennees).
L=Lactobacillus
B= Bifidabacterium
S= Streptococcus
I would suggest VSL3 as it has a variety of healthy strains at super high potency. These folks were in the probiotic business long before it got trendy. Also like plants in a garden the bugs need a fertile terrain to grow i.e prebitoics. This is achieved by eating a plant rich diet and going easy on simple sugars and processed foods.
What I find odd about probiotic studies regarding PD is that although the deficient and overabundant bacteria are already known, in these studies, they do not seem to ever try and replace the actual deficient microbes nor try to eradicate the overabundant ones as related to PD.
Kill off the bad first with things like antibiotics, garlic and silver nanoparticles and replace the deficient microbes! It seems like in the end though, the fecal microbiome transplant (FMT) will be the fastest, easiest and most cost effective way to answer the burning question of whether FMT will be similarly effective in PWPs as it is in the mice models of PD + FMT. I don't really understand why so many years of delay with FMT / PWPs when FMTs have already been tested in humans for other health issues? I guess it almost always comes down to how much money can be made and apparently there is not enough money to be made by such a venture or there is much more money to be made with other ventures.
The closest I have seen to this is in the one or two studies where they attempted to add microbes which are known butyrate producers in the presence of a proper prebiotic and that isn't even close to what is really needed!
Art
Anything that is to produce any effect on the gut has first to survive the peril of stomach acid.
For some time, my regular breakfast has consisted of Weetbix (UK Weetabix), bee pollen, cinnamon and milk kefir. After breakfast, I have some supplements that include curcumin and olive leaf extract. Real probiotic foods such as milk kefir or natural Greek style yoghurt have a much larger number of beneficial bacteria, than so-called probiotic capsules. I must be doing something right. I was diagnosed in December 2013, confirmed in January 2014 and have remained early stage one, largely due to my belief that gut bacteria play a major role in non-motor symptoms. I also take controlled release, Sinemet CR, or currently Kinson due to a shortage of Sinemet in my country until early january. The milk kefir with breakfast provides a real boost, and the first medication of the day is absorbed more quickly.
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Comprehensive supplements list (when to take and with what)? Not just for PD.
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