Nicotinamide B3 makes things worse?

[gingerj]

Here we have the results of another study that contradicts previous findings.

parkinsonsnewstoday.com/201...

Could it be that everything we take in an effort to help may prove to be making us worse?

Perhaps we should just exercise and eat a healthy diet. Put suppliments in the bin🤔

[faridaro]

Definitely food for thought.... Thanks for sharing!

[jimcaster]

Dang. I've been taking TruNiagen based on the promising study from June. I hope to hear from Joe (Sunvox) about this...

[Hidden in reply to jimcaster]

Jim,

Well, nicotinamide / niacinamide is not the same thing as TruNiagen and it would be just wrong to assume that it is!

Art

[jimcaster in reply to Hidden]

That is my understanding as well, Art. However, this particular story specifically says that the latest study contradicts the promising study from June. In fact, there's a link back to the June study. I hope the writer of this news story just has the science wrong and that there is no contradiction.

[Hidden in reply to jimcaster]

Jim,

Have you seen any benefit from tru niagen since you've been taking it and how long have you been taking it?

Art

[Gioc in reply to Hidden]

If I were a mouse-doctor I would already have about fifteen treatments for a mouse-sick PD

youtu.be/zvJHq2FJPDM(Not working as expected?)

[Hidden in reply to Gioc]

Gio,

Good point!

It really is tough being a lab mouse!

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to Hidden]

And to make matters even worse, imagine how they would feel if they knew 4/5 of them died in vain.

[ConnieD in reply to Gioc]

So funny!!😄

[jimcaster in reply to Hidden]

I don't know if I have benefited from TruNiagen or not, but even if I didn't have PD, I'd be taking it. Like many PwP, if the risk seems low and the science seems legitimate, I'll take just about anything. The problem is that I take so many supplements that it becomes virtually impossible to credit one over the others as far as slowing symptom progression. In addition, there's no way to know how I'd be doing if I were not taking these supplements so any benefit is hard to measure -- EXCEPT that I know I feel better now than in May when I was first diagnosed. I have been taking TruNiagen for approximately three months and I plan to continue with it, at least for now.

[Bocabarby in reply to jimcaster]

Take whatever makes you feel better!

[MBAnderson in reply to jimcaster]

Jim, what other supplements are you taking in addition to the four you list in your profile?

I'm ambivalent about responding to one mouse study.

[jimcaster in reply to MBAnderson]

Marc, I take following supplements daily:

1.5 grams Thiamine

375 mg TruNiagen

Nitric Balance (Acetyl Carnetine hcl) 5 ml

Turmero-XL (Turmeric extract)5 ml daily

Reservo-XL (Resveratrol)5 ml daily

Ultra Vitamin D - 1 tsp

DopaFlo K-49 (Phenylalanine, N-acetyl L-tyrosine)

Vitamin C w/ zinc 100mg & 3 mg lozenge

Super Methyl B complex

Thyroxal K-12

[KERRINGTON in reply to jimcaster]

Are you still taking Tru Niagen ?

[jimcaster in reply to KERRINGTON]

Yes.

[KERRINGTON in reply to jimcaster]

Thanks..

[andrehypnotic]

I eat healthy,take no Parkinsons drugs.Drinking lots of beer in the late afternoons.Yes I do exercise 3 times a week.This works for me.

[gingerj in reply to andrehypnotic]

The beer sounds good 😉

[sunvox]

Several people pm'd me asking my thoughts. For what it's worth here is one of my responses. Remember I am not a doctor or a researcher. The best person to ask would be Simon. Also for the record I am taking 750 mg of TruNiagen per day and will continue to do so.

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When I saw the headline I groaned. Obviously any study that showed NR was somehow harmful would ruin my day, but then I read the study.

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First and most importantly the study used niacinamide (Nam) not nicotinamide riboside (NR). Second, and this is key, the model they used involved impacting "acetylation". Acetylation is part of the process that makes proteins become toxic in Parkinson's models, and molecules that help block acetylation are on the list of hopeful treatments.

Now this next part is not well understood and has some conflicting research, but so far research indicates that NR is a Sirtuin enhancer and Nam is a Sirtuin inhibitor. Sirtuins act to block acetylation. That means in theory NR would be expected to help with the model of Parkinson's the researchers used in this paper, but Nam would not. It would be great if they repeated the study using NR instead of Nam. Sadly, I do not expect them to do so.

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A quote from the study:

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The toxic effects of nicotinamide’s sirtuin inhibition are associated with exacerbation of behavioural motor based symptoms, the neuropathological progression of the model as detected through MRI, and nigral dopaminergic neurodegeneration. These changes were accompanied by reversal of lactacystin induced histone hypoacetylation resulting in histone hyperacetylation and an upregulation of neuroprotective and neurotrophic factors. Such upregulations however did not translate to neuroprotection, rather exacerbated neurodegeneration suggestive that the histone hyperacetylation observed may have also increased expression of neurotoxic factors not studied here. These findings therefore highlight the importance of target specificity within this class of HDACs and demonstrate the contrasting effects of sirtuin inhibition upon cell survival in this, compared to other animal models of PD.

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The very last line actually makes me wonder if the researchers even realize that NR is a Sirtuin activator and therefore different from Nam in a fundamental way.

[Despe in reply to sunvox]

You're right. If they didn't use the specific form of B3 (NR), I will continue to believe that TruNiagen is beneficial for PwP.