Sources of dopamine : My original neuro... - Parkinson's Movement

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Sources of dopamine

Johnmo
Johnmo
51 Replies

My original neuro said there was a choice between natural and synthetic dopamine. The former would give more immediate results where the latter was better over the long term. I've never asked what I'm actually getting. Is it porcine brains. 🐷

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1953bullard

Natural source is mucana purines. I probably spelled it wrong. I get mine on amazon. It’s 130 mg of levodopa. It does seem to work quickly. I take ER sinamet in am and mucana in pm

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JMitch1950

I add mucuna purines as a supplement to my perscribed sinemet (carb/Levo. My choice in caplet form is Himalaya organic Mucuna ordered from IHerb.com and the pure form organic Mucuna purines powder form is ordered from SouthwestBotanicals.com. I take 1 of the caplets before dinner or 1-2 tablespoons of the powder in cranberry juice shaken well. It is not a pleasant drink so I use just enough juice to gulp down the powder. I had DatScan proof of PD in 2015 with already 50% loss of dopamine. Symptoms mainly right hand tremor, loss of gait and slight feet shuffling. I am 7 years into the disease and the only added symptoms are slower movements, joint stiffening and left slight hand tremor. I exercise daily. Walking 2-3 miles, 15 min in a bow flex Max trainer M5 and stretches with bands. I do not sit much at all. My neighbors brother was diagnosed a year after me and does not exercise basically sitting a lot and is depressed and has progressive symptoms of PD. My Neurologist, who is a specialist in cognitive and movement disorders at UAB in Birmingham is pleased with where I am with PD without strengthening of sinemet. I feel the Mucuna Puriens helps. We do have to be careful taking too much dopamine because it can cause it to stop working sooner. No one knows our future symptoms or demise with PD we just have to keep moving keep muscles strengthened and stay positive and find joy and peace in each day. I will not sit down and give in to the disease. So try Mucuna Puriens but always take pure form organic.

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enjoysalud

Google "Zandopa"

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Johnmo

Maybe I got that wrong, doesn't ring any bells with anyone. The other thing I remember the neurologist saying is that I'd be dancing in 10 years. I suppose like J Fox the actor. Severe diskynesia. Interesting that he can stop, he loses control when he has to focus on talking. I think I'm diagnosed 3 years.

Supposed yesterday to have gone to a 60th party. See my art college buddies. Drink and dance, haha could do the pd shake. Didn't go. Sigh. Felt too poorly, not in the mood for such youthful things. Swim in the river today. In the rain. Prolley won't do that either. Depressing.

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SufferingSocks

I know they say everyone is different with PD but hearing things that other sufferers do makes me believe that my hubby must be rather advanced as he only has to do a bit of gardening and he suffers terribly later on. He goes out not long after he's had his medication and breakfast. He's getting very weak all over and today he didn't get much help from his 100mg/50mg levadopa/benserazide. Had to put him to bed at noon and he was better after a 2hr. sleep. Gets quite a lot of shoulder and neck pain . Any suggestions? Suffering Socks

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Hidden
Hidden
in reply to SufferingSocks

Have you tried applying mag oil to the shoulder and neck area? Many find this very helpful to relieve the pain and relax the muscles. Another possibility is the the topical ibuprofen lotion.

Art

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SufferingSocks
SufferingSocks
in reply to Hidden

Thanks for that Art, shall get some mag oil to try for hubby's neck and shoulder pain. Suffering Socks

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Hidden
Hidden
in reply to SufferingSocks

Please let us know how it works for you. It has been a while since I made that mag oil and magnesium post and I have seen only one reply and that person found it very helpful!

Art

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Hidden

It seemed to relieve the pain in the knee muscle tension. I'm not putting it on enough to really tell. It's quite messy. Going to try rubbing some on my back injury. I'll take it to my reiki session. Get her to do it.

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Johnmo

I've been thinking about it. Wondering how to reply. I get quite confused. I'm usually OK once I've given my morning meds a while to work and been able to relax properly after a difficult night. My lower back is really bad now. Hard to get up. The pain killers don't work but the tramadol cheers me up. The 50/12.5 dopa times 2 does something, and the 1mg rasagiline I don't know for sure. If I keep fairly still I feel great. I'm trying to piece together the idea that it's psychosomatic. It's a riddle. The very neurotransmitters that are implicated in the condition are the substance of the psychological state of mind that... You see I can't express it, cognitively. It's an emotional state. I'll get downstairs and do the washing up housework and then I'll have to come and lie down again. I need to go outside and enjoy the warm sun but the heat exhausts me and I turn onto a zombie. I wanted to apply mindfulness but I'm not disciplined enough. Right I'm ready to do it. It's 10am! Oh dear

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Johnmo

Haha. Cancel that. My friend just boarded her plane for menorca. We chat on messenger

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Johnmo

Oh dear. Extreme pain. Got down to pick up a currant. Try to breath through it. I've booked for Albania with son and daughter on the 25th. Need to be ok for that. Looking for a cottage for 6 nights.

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Dap1948

9 years ago I went to the doctor with PD symptoms. I take one synthetic ldopa in the morning and mucuna lunch and evening. I've taken up things rather than given up things. Your neurologist was wrong to predict dyskinesia in ten years. It needn't be if you keep your meds down and exercise. People I meet for the first time can't tell I have PD.

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Danasr
Danasr
in reply to Dap1948

Good to know...Are you tremor dominant?? I’m newly dx and the fear of the unknown is constantly on my mind. It’s good to hear about something positive.

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Dap1948
Dap1948
in reply to Danasr

I have a tremor which has not got worse. I've now lost all my rigidity and walk normally. I believe in walking, yoga, playing piano and painting. I'm also taking classes in Italian for my cognition!

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Dap1948

How are your arpeggios. That sort of thing makes me squirm. However I can put on a good enough Tina Guo style standing show on the cello with sweeping grinding bow work and double stopping while performing a kind of ballet with the instrument

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Johnmo

Must look up your post with the link for music and Parkinson's. Waiting for my giffgaff goody bag to renew

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Dap1948
Dap1948
in reply to Johnmo

Can you provide video?!!!

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Dap1948

Haha, god forbid. Too embarrassing

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justhavefun2

Do you happen to know if it is more effective to take the munuca without protein like you do Sinemet? Or does it matter since it’s a plant... Thanks for your thoughts!!

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Despe
Despe
in reply to justhavefun2

Sinemet and MP provide L-dopa, no matter natural or synthetic. I assume that whatever applies to Sinemet, applies to MP, too.

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Dap1948

As it is ldopa, albeit natural rather than synthetic, I expect the advise re-protein would still be relevant. I don't bother though but then I'm still on a low dose, only taking 200mg of ldopa in total per day.

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justhavefun2

Thanks so much Dap and Despe for your responses! I tried taking Munuca in my tea (no protein) at work this morning and I fell asleep at my desk. I will figure it out eventually if I can just stay awake!! Lol

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Johnmo

I take 450 mg l-dopa over the day. And 1mg of rasagiline. People say I look ok. It's invisible. I get freezing, a sick feeling when I try to do co-ordinated movement which feels like it drains my dopamine levels. I wonder if I should take more dopa. I wonder if the synthetic form is better for non tremor type. Is mucuna taken up better without the benserazide. I go to yoga stretching and reiki relaxing, and I've done mindfulness. I ride an electric bike and I'm trying to get a volunteer fast walking partner.

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munchybunch
munchybunch
in reply to Johnmo

That’s interesting. My husband is rigid dominant and with very little tremor. Do u think mucuna might be better for him. I’m just not sure of dosages. Or brands. Can u suggest anything? Thanks

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Cagey84
Cagey84
in reply to munchybunch

Unlikely - levodopa is levodopa, whether it’s from Sinemet or Mucuna.

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Harleybob08

If you google levodopa in China, you will find the manufacturers. Eg.

hkshijingu.en.made-in-china...

Search around for the source. It normally comes up with mucuna. Seems like all ldopa comes from mucuna. ? No such thing as synthetic?

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Johnmo

How do you know it's the real stuff. Much as I'd like to believe China to be legit producers I've had enough dud stuff to make me avoid unless it's just for cheap fun

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Dap1948
Dap1948
in reply to Johnmo

My mucuna pruriens comes from India as organic seeds. A local herbalist makes it into a tincture for me. It is very pure, but is a bit more expensive.

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rrunk7
rrunk7
in reply to Dap1948

Can you share the name of the herbalist? my email is rrunk@optonline.net

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Dap1948
Dap1948
in reply to rrunk7

herbactive.co.uk/prices

Scroll down to "mucuna". A teaspoon/5ml of the tincture provides up to 70mg ldopa. Shake the bottle before use.

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Trixiedee
Trixiedee
in reply to Dap1948

Dap1948 have you had a consultation with that herbalist? He was recommended to me. Do you take the Parkinson’s tonic or any other herbs?

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Dap1948
Dap1948
in reply to Trixiedee

No I haven't. I was replacing a different mucuna product so didn't feel it necessary. I telephoned him and asked ldopa potency per millilitre etc. (5ml provides up to70mg ldopa) His recommendation for quantity of mucuna to take a day is rather general and rather high. I have told him this. I think the consultation is only relevant when you're not sure which herbal product to try. I haven't tried his PD tonic as I already take a herbal tonic with similar ingredients from another herbalist. His prices are high but his product is excellent and they arrive the next day. I'm willing to pay for quality, purity and reliable potency, which I wasn't getting from my previous mucuna product.

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rideabike

I started Mucuna Pruriens (a crushed bean containing natural form levodopa), about 4 months ago and then 2 months ago ordered Zandopa- from India, (same bean but more processed), and can now estimate how much to take of either one. Either 1 tablespoon of Zandopa or 1 and 1/2 teaspoons whole bean powder give me the same results. Twice or 3x a day is best for me (depending on what I need to do that day) and helps reduce stiffness in my neck, head and trunk as well as the head and internal tremor in the chest. I also feel more motivated and less anxiety in daily living and hardly any constipation at and each dose lasts about 4-5 hours. At the end of that I start to tremor and feel really stiff again.

I also take some amino acid supplements to balance out neurotransmitters when taking levodopa but not to the extent some do, (L-tyrosine, 5-HTP, etc.). (1/2 of Sinemet 25/100 is about the same as 1 tablespoon of Zandopa ) and doesn't make me sick. Hope this helps your decision making.

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Johnmo

I just get a plastic bottle of co-ben l dopa from the chemist shop on the High street probably extracted and purified by big pharma at extortionate expense to the NHS. Not at all exotic. Or maybe they make it from the same seeds you get only they're picked by Indian women in white coats with big pockets for their babies. Somehow yours sounds better. Anyway I neck them and sometimes feel better sometimes really awful. I try not taking them sometimes just for fun so I can tell they work. I worry a bit about the benserazide. So I don't just take more if I feel off. I'm not sure my health professionals will grok on this. To use an old hippy term. I'll ask again about the synthetic. Thanks guys, it's interesting.

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wombat03

my mum uses mucuna powder and it works just as well if not better than medication. It is natural food source of levodopa, with so many other health benefits.

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to wombat03

In typical fashion for me I just drifted over to being interested in this and went as far as even ordering. But it says its out of stock. I might pick up the thread again, maybe at the local witch doctor who does the things the NHS hasn't heard of. Not the medical marijuana I hasten to add

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Menchita1017

How do you know how much to give her. I want to try it, but not sure how much to take.

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wombat03

I think we just had to experiment, and see how much it would take to relieve symptoms, so she started with a flat teaspoon and that seemed to be enough, and still is, months later. Any more, and she felt nauseous.

But she has to take several doses during the day. Mum still takes Madopar dispersible at night, 50mg/12.5mg for convenience, when she wakes up.

She has also just started taking high dose thiamine (Vitamin B1), so we'll see how that goes.

Hope this helps? (-;

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Johnmo
Johnmo
in reply to Hidden

I dread going to the bathroom too. Something else to have to think about. I thought bisacodyl was the answer but I didn't want to use it all the time as its effects can be over the top. But then I forget to take it the night before I think I may need it. Microlax enemas I find are a good resort when it gets really bad. And I use tramadol for pain and depression and that can inhibit the ability to go. 😞

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ruthgt
ruthgt
in reply to Johnmo

Drink every morning first getting up a glass of warm water with 1 tablespoon of olive oil and lemon.eat dry proons

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ruthgt

I use mucuna pruriance from NOW company and not from someone who makes it alone.it has a quick influence more then the syntetic.have to take evrey 3-4 hours.use medical kanabis helps with the pain

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munchybunch
munchybunch
in reply to ruthgt

What dose do you use pls? My husband takes 3 x 25\100 madopar. It really doesn’t seem to help much. I d like him to try mucuna thanks

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ruthgt
ruthgt
in reply to munchybunch

I use half of dopicar25/250 each time .and i use mucuna from NOW. 2capsules have 120 mg levodopa. The are equvalent to the dopicar.I need to take every 3 hours .otherwise I feel my legs hart and stiff like wood .my finger in the leg are binding dawn..difficule walking...

In 24 hours i take about 4-5 times mucuna .and 2-3 dopicar.the mucunas affect is more quicker..about 20 minutes. What is your husbands simptomes

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munchybunch
munchybunch
in reply to ruthgt

Mainly stiffness really. Thanks

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Johnmo

I still haven't found out where the benserazide comes in. Perhaps mucuna has its own equivelant. Or maybe the dose is a lot stronger and able to get through without a dehyrogernase inhibitor. Also I would have to consider a phased switch over from this madopar equivelant I'm on, to the mucuna. Or just add it in by small increments. And whether the rasagiline is doing anything at all, like neiroprotectove. It did seem to help with my antisocial anxiety syndrome at first. But as I am learning with Parkinson's you can't be sure of anything. It's being so implicated at the core of one's being where all I can legally claim is that an entity i call johnmo exists.

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ruthgt
ruthgt
in reply to Johnmo

I use dopicar 25/200 half each time i use mucuna from Now.2cap have 120 mg levodopa.it is allmost the same but we dont know how much gets to the brain.the influence of mucuna is about 30 minutes.In 24. Hours i take about 4-5 times mucuna or 3-4 times dopicar.not on the same times

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Johnmo

We might ask about the ayurvedic teachings in the use of mucuna and marijuana in the traditional treatment of the shaking palsy, paralysis tremens, or whatever else it may be called when there is progressive loss of movement. That's older knowledge, before we knew about neurotransmitters. What are we missing

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SufferingSocks

Hi Johnmo - I don't think for one moment that you're getting porcine brains! haha! I got a real laugh out of a friend today - we were discussing dopamine and he said that sex will produce dopamine - I said "you could have all the sex in the world and it won't get your dopamine levels up", meaning with PD. That certainly got a laugh from our friends. Suffering Socks

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Johnmo

They're co-dependent. What's first dopa or sex. Dopamine is supposed to be the hormone of lurve. The drugs we're on are supposed to make us take risks, gamble, go shopping, get horny. I wish... It seems to be the first sign the drugs aren't working. Dead duck syndrome more like. Haha, I wondered, so we're not eating pig substantial negra, it's mucuna.

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