What about non-drug solutions? - Parkinson's Movement

Parkinson's Movement

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What about non-drug solutions?

christos_k
christos_k

Don't get me wrong, but I am not a big fan of drugs. I mean, look at the side effects of PD drugs! They actually help accelerate the progress of the disease.

I am sure non-drug solutions for PD have been discussed before and will be a main issue in the future. Here are my 2 cents on that matter:

youtube.com/watch?v=1_DBnv3...

youtube.com/watch?v=AjlhJXh...

35 Replies
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Dear Christos, Happy Easter.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to RoyProp

May it bring peace in our hearts...

Christos, all drugs have *possible* side effects. We hear a lot from those who have side effects or the fear of possible side effects but not so much from those who have no side effects from their meds. For most meds, the number of people having side effects is less than those that do not. I have no side effects from the Stalevo that I take.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Osidge

I also take the Stalevo. I have minor side effects, but I can live with them for now. The problem is that levodopa stops working after a period of time. I was diagnosed with PD 9 years ago. In the first five years (called by neurologists "the honey moon") 3 pills/day was enough for me. Now I take 7 and I am only 54. My doctor tells me that I will need a DBS sooner or later.

I own it to myself to look for ways -other than drugs- to slow the progression of the illness, by stimulating my brain to produce more dopamine. There has to be a way to re-activate the self healing process of my body...

Astra7
Astra7 in reply to christos_k

Have you tried mannitol? I'm finding it very helpful so far.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Astra7

Thanks, I am just beginning to explore non-drug solutions. I'll do my research and decide.

alexask
alexask in reply to christos_k

I second mannitol.

Osidge
Osidge in reply to christos_k

I have been taking Stalevo 50 3 times daily for 9 years, with no side effects, and have had no deterioration in my disease. I guess it is true that our PD is personal to each of us. I wish you well on your journey.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Osidge

Same to you, my friend. :)

ion_ion
ion_ion in reply to Osidge

Are you still working?

Osidge
Osidge in reply to ion_ion

No. I took early retirement to relax.

DBS

DBS = Deep Brain Stimulation

It's nice to be reminded in the video by the Indian guru that everyone needs to increase their dopamine and how they can do it. If we all follow his advice we might not need to increase the number of c/l we take.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to hopedope

Let me put it this way. We should adopt a healthier life style concerning nutrition, exercise, sleep, meditation, activities that boost dopamine e.t.c. We may not avoid taking drugs after all, but we will definately be better off doing that than doing nothing about it.

hopedope
hopedope in reply to christos_k

I definitely agree!

Thanks for posting this!

I, and many others, have been able to reverse my Parkinson's disease be doing regular Fast Walking. If you are really interested in this then contact me on my website - reverseparkinsons.net and contact me. I am not selling anything other than a book on my story, which you don't have to buy.

Thanks again, John. I already have.

Hello ! I have been wanting to ask you about my strange walking/arm movement side effect. i try walk fast, and swing arms every other day, sometimes two consecutive days. My right arm tremor calmed while exercising after 25-30 minutes and after a month of exercise. The strange thing is that after the exercise is over for the day I'm a bit unsteady, and tremor/anxiousness is a bit worse. HOWEVER, the following day I FEEL PRETTY GOOD. Any thoughts ? I take vitamins, the B 1 protocol, and MP.

THANKS !

Hi Kerrington. It sounds to me as though you are doing too much, too quickly. I may sound like a real PAIN IN THE ASS and I possibly am to most people.

The benefit to be gained from fast walking is the 'FAST' bit. Any kind of walking is good for everybody. Anybody wanting to try it is best advised to first find out how long you are able to walk, as fast as you can, before you have to slow down!

When you know how long you can walk at that speed, then walk every second day for two weeks.

Two things will keep changing. You will start to get fitter and you will also start to walk faster. So, after two weeks, find out how much longer you are able to walk fast before you have to slow down. Then on the third week, walk for that length of time. After every second week, see how much longer you can walk, but don't go longer than five minutes. When you get to one hour then stay walking for one hour, always walking as fast as you can.

Because we don't always feel the same every day, you will find that you do not go at the same speed every time you walk. SO KEEP A RECORD OF EACH WALK AND SEE HOW FAR YOU WALK EACH TIME IN THAT ONE HOUR.

You will then find that you won't feel 'WOBBLY', which is exhaustion.

Oh, ok.thanks... I guess I was concentrating more on the arm movement, than the fast walking part !

You must be doing something right to have so much energy ! Thanks !

We have no proof whether what I am doing is the reason for my improved condition, but it appears to work for many people. I put my money on it!

I am not sure why you would leave studied drugs with known benefits and known side effects, for other unstudied substances with unknown benefits and unknown side effects.

Sincere beliefs, however fervently held, are not proofs, and because a substance seemed to help one person, does not rule out placebo effect, wishful thinking or coincidence.

BTW, “PD drugs help accelerate the progress of the disease “ is factually not correct.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Condor13

Let me start from your last remark. Rule of thumb: When you take from an outside source a substance that your body produces by itself, you give your body the signal to stop producing this substance. Does your body gets lazy? No, it just saves energy. That is why levodopa's effect weakens over time. The more dopamine you pump into your body, the less dopamine it produces.

I am not talking about chemical substances. It doesn't make sense to replace a drug with another drug. I am referring to the capability of the body to heal itself. When the body loses this ability, we must find ways to stimulate it. For some reason (stress, malnutrition, abuses and addictions to substances e.t.c.) our lifestyle puts us off-balance. Our immune system either weakens or attacks our body. In both cases we become ill. And what do we do then? Instead of rendering our body capable of self restoration, we take drugs to cover the cause of our illness. That is symptomatic treatment. We address the symptoms instead of hitting the cause that bares the symptoms.

The key is to strengthen our body's ability of self healing. How do we do that? By going back to basics: food, breath, fluids, emotional balance, mental clarity. I know, it sounds like yoga. I prefer to call it "life balance".

Of course, when the damage is deep because we have ignored the signals for a long time, the body needs help to regain its powers. That is when we need drugs. But, we must take drugs with the intension to stop taking them eventually, when our immune system becomes strong enough. It is a different approach altogether. And, where we can, we should prefer natural to chemical drugs.

I think we could keep this going on forever, but:

Paragraph One: PD is caused by the body not producing enough Dopamine. Giving Dopamine does not accelerate this decline. Not giving Dopamine just allows the disease process to continue.

Paragraph Two: We do not know why PD starts. You mention stress, malnutrition, substance abuse, but the truth is , we have no idea, so how can we “hit the cause”? If only it was that easy.

Paragraph Three: Strengthening ability to self heal. Sounds great, but show me the evidence? If it was that easy we would all be fit and well.

Paragraph Four: I agree, taking drugs only when we need them, and certainly stop them when they are not needed. Why prefer natural to chemical drugs? I would use whichever have been proved to work best.

I have a feeling we are about to agree to disagree.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Condor13

I find our disagreement useful. We may even come to a conclusion, provided we step out of our frame and see the other guy's opinion not as a threat, but as a quest for the truth. Having said that, I do not wish to take sides in a "drugs vs non-drugs" war. As it happens in most cases, the truth is in between.

Paragraph one: You said "PD is caused by the body not producing enough Dopamine". I agree. But, you can either feed the hungry, or teach them how to find their own food. If our body produces less dopamine than needed, we should aim at making it capable of increasing dopamine production by itself. So, we must go back to what caused the body to produce less dopamine in the first place. I find it hard to believe that everything was going fine in my life when suddenly, one morning, a protein called a-synuclein went nuts and started killing my neuro transmitters.

Paragraph two: Correct. We do not know SO FAR. But, the latest developments in neuroscience indicate that PD is an autoimmune syndrome. So, what caused my body to attack itself? Is it genes? Genes only give you the predisposition. Whether you get ill or not, it's up to you. You can adopt a life style that either pushes you towards a healthy state, or programs you to become ill.

Paragraph three: You said "If it was that easy we would all be fit and well.". Well, it is NOT easy for people to maintain a healthy life style. Take a look around you. How many people do you know who workout, feed properly and lead a life without stress? I am not referring to gym freaks, obsessed veggies or wannabe gurus. I am talking about you and me...

Paragraph four: Nature provides the cure for most illnesses. There is a knowledge that goes back to ancient times. Hepocrates and Asclepios were the first to apply holistic medicine, together with the Chinese and Tibetan practicians. This knowledge hasn't been fully explored, to my opinion. With chemical drugs on the other hand we import substances alien to our body. So, we cannot tell how it will react in a long term use.

Bottom line, PD is a syndrome that afflicts the body, the mind and the spirit. Therefore, it should be addressed in a holistic manner. When you take drugs, you do it with consistency, because you know this is the only way to get the full benefit out of it. Why not show the same consistency about caring for yourself in other ways? After all, even conventional medicine acknowledges the importance of pursuing healthy habits in our everyday life.

Take the drugs, don't take the drugs, your choice. I just wanted to say that taking levodopa drugs does not hasten the disease. The disease is progressing with or without the drug.

for instance the people that develop dyskinisa would have gotten it whether or not they took the drug, they just like to blame it on the drug.

Juliegrace
Juliegrace in reply to arwenmark

I disagree. I developed dyskinesia after four months on very low doses of c/l. I went off meds after six months for almost a year. During that time I had no dyskinesia. I was almost completely debilitated but had no dyskinesia. I have been back on c/l for almost three years now and I only take it during the day. That is when I have dyskinesia. I do not experience any dyskinesia at night. Perhaps other people have a different experience, but for me there is a very clear connection between levodopa and dyskinesia. And, when I tried pure l-dopa derived from mucuna pruriens I also experienced dyskinesia on a dose of less than 100mg.

bibsie
bibsie in reply to Juliegrace

Julie, you say that you tried mucuna pruriens? It appears you stopped. Why? Was it not effective? I bought some gor my husband but i think his f2f irst dose was too much. He experienced a ra c.f.ving heartbeat, sweats, chills, dizziness, etc. He'd still like to try it again but with a much smaller dose. Did you have side effects from it?

Juliegrace
Juliegrace in reply to bibsie

This is a link to a post that may help you.

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

Yes, I had side effects, just as I do with c/l.

I think we may be heading to some agreement.

There is no evidence that giving dopamine suppresses the body’s production, any more than giving insulin suppresses the bodies production. However, some hormones have an auto regulation, I am thinking of thyroid, where giving thyroid extract suppresses the thyroid stimulating hormone.

Beware of wishing for the “ancient times” of Hippocrates etc.

With their ancient wisdom, natural medicines, clean air, non polluted water, lots of exersize- no one lived over the age of 30.

christos_k
christos_k in reply to Condor13

I guess you have an unexpected ally: My neurologist. She says that L-dopa is toxic (like any other drug) only if you take more than you need. She also claims that the effect of L-dopa weakens over time only because more neurotransmitters die.

As I said, I am not taking sides. Nevertheless, I insist that we should give priority to reinforcing the brain's ability to produce more dopamine by adopting a healthier life style altogether. That includes the so called "alternative therapies". I myself use drugs because I haven't yet reached a point when I can stop taking them.

I have been studying Greek Philosophy and History for years. Democritus died at the age of 101. Zenon, the founder of the Stoicians lived up to 98 and the list goes on and on. The historical fact of people dying at their 30's refers to a time span from medieval times until the industrial revolution era (18th-19th century), when people left the country and moved to the cities. Overpopulation, bad conditions of hygiene, pests, wide spread infections, from the Great Plague in 1665 to the 1918 flu pandemic.

Well, it's been nice arguing with you. Time is the final judge. He decides what dies and what survives, even in the case of drugs and non-drugs alternatives.

I rest my case, your honour... :)

I hope you and others reading my post will forgive me if I sound arrogant as my real intention is only to help.

First your discussion here of what causes PD is lacking a vital piece of science. Sadly I am at work and only have my iPhone so providing an in depth response is impossible but I will try a condensed version for now and when I return home I will revisit this post.

First some questions:

1) Are you aware that if you click on a persons name you can see all their posts?

2) Are you aware of the current theories of the role of alpha-synuclein in the etiology of PD? If so what is a short explanation?

3) Have you read any posts by Silvestrov or myself?

The fact is many people with PD are delaying or even stopping the progression of their disease and doing so using “alternative therapies”. They may not work for everyone but for some people they do, and so far this discussion has done a very poor job of explaining the science behind potentially useful alternative therapies. It is my hope to continue the discussion you started and provide scientific proofs as well as a list of such items.

healthunlocked.com/parkinso....

healthunlocked.com/ataxia-u...

christos_k
christos_k in reply to sunvox

The reason for my presence in this forum -I guess it goes for everyone- is to get help, regardless of the who's or how's.

To answer your questions:

1) NO

2) YES

3) NO

So, I guess I have some home study to do.

Thanks for your input.

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