follow up how early can you get PD

Thank you all off you for your kindness and help.

I have given my daughter 2 inj. with B12 depot for 2 weeks no and the effect is amazing.

My wife put it this way ....we have got our daughter back.

She is more happy , more social and a new person.

To early to conclude of cause but we are filled with hope no.

I started with the question How early can you get PD?

The reason for this is that I myself have PD and studying my daughter age 14 she had all the signs for PD

No mimic in the face

Restless leg and hands

Unhappy and depressed

In fact , I have got answer to all the symptoms she has.

Look at this one:

progressivehealth.com/rls-b...

No wonder that I concluded she had PD.

"Iron is needed to produce dopamine which is the chief neurotransmitter for regulating the coordination of fine motor function such as limb movements. Since vitamin B12 is closely linked to iron levels in the body, the vitamin deficiency is often seen along with iron deficiency."

More or less the definition on PD.

I am observing her and the restless leg problem is not effected by the B12 inj , yet.

I doe not expect that I will get rid of this problem with so low dose we are using now and I have to work with this problem more.

I hope this will stop her psychological problem also and have to admit that I am worried about the possibility that permanent damage may have been established to her brain.

I am wondering about the possibility that there is a lot of people out there with wrong diagnosis on PD.

So thank you again for your support.

Without that I would not see the connections

I will inform your more later

All the best from us.

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

7 Replies

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  • I am glad your daughter is feeling better.

    Are you saying she has an iron deficiency problem along with a B12 deficiency?

    I am not sure what kind of B12 the doctors are injecting but methylcobalamin is the most potent form of B12 and it comes in sublingual (under the tongue) lozenges.

    Best wishes.

  • thank you silverstrov

    B12 = 138

    Ferritin (iron) = 15

    D3 = 26

    I don't know the "alarm" limits but to be honest she might have low B12 caused by low iron ?

    I have an appointment with a doctor at the hospital Friday coming week and hope to get a treatment plan and help with manage this situation.

  • B12 = 138

    "Normal blood level of vitamin B-12 ranges between 200 and 600 picogram/millileter."

    caloriebee.com/vitamins-sup...

    Ferritin (iron) = 15

    "The normal range for blood ferritin is: For men, 24 to 336 nanograms per milliliter (standard units) or 24 to 336 micrograms per liter (international units) For women, 11 to 307 nanograms per milliliter (standard units) or 11 to 307 micrograms per liter (international units)Mar 19, 2014"

    mayoclinic.org/tests-proced...

    D3 = 26

    "The most accurate way to measure how much vitamin D is in your body is the 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood test. A level of 20 nanograms/milliliter to 50 ng/mL is considered adequate for healthy people. A level less than 12 ng/mL indicates vitamin D deficiency.

    "

    webmd.com/diet/guide/vitami...

    Vitamin D levels are normal. B12 is definitively deficient and Iron is low. _________________________________________________________________________

    Given the low B12 and ferritin levels is looks like some form of iron deficiency anemia. And yes, anemia and low B12 levels are associated with Parkinson's.

    I mentioned the most potent form of B12, methylcobalamin (in sublingual form) and it should be taken with folate - methyltetrahydrofolic acid, like methylcobalamin, folate is the bioavailable from of folic acid (folic acid is junk).

    Folate and B12 work together for red blood cell production.

    New insights into erythropoiesis: the roles of folate, vitamin B12, and iron.

    "Folate, vitamin B12, and iron have crucial roles in erythropoiesis. Erythroblasts require folate and vitamin B12 for proliferation during their differentiation. Deficiency of folate or vitamin B12 inhibits purine and thymidylate syntheses, impairs DNA synthesis, and causes erythroblast apoptosis, resulting in anemia from ineffective erythropoiesis."

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/151...

    __________________________________________________________________________

    "In mammals, a nucleated red blood cell (NRBC), also known by several other names, is a red blood cell (RBC or erythrocyte) that retains a nucleus."

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucle...

    __________________________________________________________________________

    What is the safest form of iron for children? Carbonyl iron.

    Carbonyl iron reduces anemia and improves effectiveness of treatment in under six-year-old children

    "The ferritin concentration was significantly higher in the CI Group at the end of the treatment (9.51 ng/mL to 26.16 ng/mL). Additionally, the treatment was better accepted with fewer adverse effects by this group. Chewable carbonyl iron tablets should be considered an important therapeutic option in the treatment of iron deficiency anemia of under six-year-old children."

    scielo.br/scielo.php?script...

    I know your daughter is 15 and I am just pointing out how safe carbonyl iron is. I have the trait of Type 2 anemia and fortunately blood transfusions are not required. My brother's body cannot absorb iron so he, like myself, takes methylcobalamin and methyltetrahydrofolic acid (folate) and I take carbonyl iron.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    I addressed this before and have to ask again.

    Is your daughter a vegetarian?

    Does she eat red meat (a source of both B12 and iron)?

    If she is not a vegetarian and does eat red meat, I have to wonder why her ferritin and B12 levels are so low. Normally the protein called intrinsic factor is deficient in older people thus causing the body to not be able to absorb B12.

    She is getting injections, thereby bypassing the stomach and intestines so B12 is absorbed.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    Good luck with the doctor's appointment and I hope your questions are answered.

    Rich

  • Thank you so much silvestrov

    I really am very glad for your answer and I doe see that there is a lot of work behind it.

    She is not a vegetarian and eat red meat but I think we have to go threw what we are eating.

    We doe eat a lot of chicken products and maybe we have to change to more red meat.

    Soon the school starts and my worry is how to get control over B12 level and iron.

    After 3 weeks with B12 injections ( once a week) and iron, how will the levels be in 3 months which is the limit set bye her first doctor?

    If her levels drops to low I am afraid this will make the school situation very difficult.

    I hope and pray that the new doctor on the hospital is more easy to cooperate with and that he is aware of this problems.

    Again , thank you.

  • My pleasure.

    Most doctors (in the USA anyway) use cyanocobalamin for injections and it is the worst form of B12:

    Vitamin B-12 (cobalamin)

    by Hans R. Larsen, MSc ChE

    "Vitamin B12 (cobalamin) is an important water-soluble vitamin. In contrast to other water-soluble vitamins it is not excreted quickly in the urine, but rather accumulates and is stored in the liver, kidney and other body tissues. As a result, a vitamin B12 deficiency may not manifest itself until after 5 or 6 years of a diet supplying inadequate amounts."

    ___________________________________________

    "Most multi-vitamin pills contain 100-200 microgram of the cyanocobalamin form of B-12. This must be converted to methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin before it can be used by the body. The actual absorption of B12 is also a problem with supplements. Swallowing 500 micrograms of cyanocobalamin can result in absorption of as little as 1.8 microgram so most multivitamins do not provide an adequate daily intake. The best approach is to dissolve a sublingual tablet of methylcobalamin (1000 micrograms) under the tongue every day."

    I give this man an A+; he is absolutely correct.

    yourhealthbase.com/vitamin_...

    My point is, your daughter ate well balanced meals with sources of cobalamin,

    "Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products. Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods, but fortified breakfast cereals are a readily available source of vitamin B12 with high bioavailability for vegetarians."

    And yet she developed a B12 deficiency - no neglect on your part. She is also recovering from B12 injections which bypass her stomach. I still think there might be something wrong with her stomach that inhibits her absorption of B12 from food.

    I know I mentioned this a couple of times, but get her 'intrinsic factor' levels checked in the stomach.

    If they are low it would explain her deficiency.

    Like the above article suggested, 1,000 mg/day of sublingual methylcobalamin is a good source B12.

    Also, B12 can be coupled with intrinsic factor so the stomach can absorb it:

    wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php...

    The above supplement also has 800 mg of folic acid, not my favorite form of FA but this would be an effective supplement.

    I cannot say anymore than what I have posted and let me (all of us) know what the doctors say.

    Rich

  • Thank you again Rich

    I will come back as soon as I get more information

    It makes you wander if any of the parkinson medicine disturb the possibility of absorbing enough B12 or any other vitamin?

    Myself I use sinemeth 25/100 one and a half tablet 5 times a day.

    I have had problems with chest pain ( solar plexus) for almost 10 years no.

    I see chest pain is one of the thing you can have with B12 problems.

    I used to use NEOPRO pad ( dopamin agonist ) but I had to stop using it because of the chest pain was too much to stand out with.

    I will say 90% of the chest pain disappeared after stopping with NEUPRO but so did also the joy of life.

    I feel constant depressed and cries fore nothing and is not able to get anything done more.

    Funny , isn't it.

    The personality and the person you are is the result off what kind of chemicals you feed the brain with.

    Easy on paper but not in practices.

    I think it is time to check B12 levels on my self too.

    All the best

    Jan

  • Glad to here your daughter is on the mend. When, as a non-medially trained person, one passes on randomly collected info. from the internet, one sometimes wonders whether it is such a good idea. When I was diagnosed with B12 deficiency, I entertained the faint hope that my Parkinsons dx.might be wrong. Alas, no, it is yet another wrinkle with the onset of old age. My GP' computer system will only accept B12 stuff under the general heading of "pernicious anaemia" although I had never come near to such low levels of iron.

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