It has just occurred to me that DIET might have something to do with the cause of Pd. If this is so, then there will be none of you answering this question. If there are some who answer, but have only become vegetarians since diagnosis, then mention this in your reply.
How many subsribers to this website have ... - Cure Parkinson's
How many subsribers to this website have Parkinson's Disease and are Vegetarians?
Written by
JohnPepper
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42 Replies
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I have been Vegetarian for nearly 30 years
JohnPepper in reply to
Hi Owdsod. My question was very badly worded. I did not know there was a difference between vegan and vegetarian. I am interested in those with Pd who have been vegans before diagnosis. I am interested in the effect of animal products on our health, and particularly on Pd.
John
Thanks. I should have known that you were. I assume you were already a vegan long before diagnosis?
John
John
There is a real distinction between a vegan (no animal products) and a vegetarian (who can /do eat animal products such as milk, yoghurt, cream) not sure about cheese! You have used both terms in this thread.
There have been three research papers linking dairy products with PD.
Regards
Norton
Hi Norton. Pardon my ignorance on this matter. I thought they were one and the same. I meant vegan of course. I had better check whether the two previous responses were vegetarians or vegans.
Kind regards
John
in reply to Norton1
I have not read the research papers linking PD and Dairy produce. However, there seems to be so many links to the causes of PD, I wonder how many are factual evidence, and not just inconclusive un-proven research?
If we were to believe in most of the researched areas of the causes of many diseases, we should be wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool and never seeing the light of day.
Unfortunately, the whole of life is a game of chance.
We have very little say in our fortune.
Besides, people have been eating dairy produce for aeons.
If there is any suspicion of dairy items causing problems. I think it is because of the intensive drug use nowadays in raising dairy cattle, not in the consumption of dairy products in itself.
If there was any kind of risk from eating meat, or dairy produce due to administration of certain drugs, I believe we should all be the last to hear about it, especially if it was causing long term illnesses.
Norton1 in reply to
Hello Owdsod
I agree with your assertion that there may be several causes of PD, dairy being one of them. I don't know what you mean in quantity by the term aeons, but it is likely to be less than 10000 years ago when humans began farming. Before that time, it is highly unlikely that humans caught wild animals a milked them.
As we know from our reading and posts on this forum, PD could be caused also by chemicals and other toxins such as mercury. Gluten has been proposed too. Many PwP have diabetes2 as well.
My thoughts is that by far and away we take the greater part of our environment through our mouths, so that is why I am looking at the food we take as a possible main, but not the only cause.
Whilst we can not turn the clock back, I am hoping that by following a whole food regime I can at least slow down its progress, if not to all intents and purposes stop it progressing further. However, obviously I will never be able to claim one or the other as to do so would require a scientific assessment.
Regards
Norton
in reply to Norton1
The whole of disease amongst us humans and animals must be from the environment we live in, whether it be from food, or air, or soil, something picked up one way or another throughout life. Or passed via our placenta while developing in the womb. PD being no different to any other illness or complaint.
Something that may be impure to one species may be pure to another and so forth. Such is life.
With respect, I dont think I personally want to extend life with having to go on a diet regime of time consuming misery, eating things that make me feel sickly, (not that my diet is anything special anyway. Porridge, fresh fruit, and vegetables.) I dont eat certain things because I don't want to or because I dont like it, neither do I drink or smoke. However, I do at least want to try to live a full life doing what I enjoy doing or eating.
I think at my time of life what's the point in changing anything or worrying.
We die if we don't, we die if we do!
Norton1 in reply to
Hello Owdsod
Like you, I don't want to fiddle around preparing food for over an hour which I eat in 10 minutes. Like you too, I like simple fare either raw or minimally cooked where possible. What I do not want to do anymore is take in dairy products which I believe humans were not intended to eat for milk is for calves only. I have read that milk in the UK contains traces of antibiotics which were used to treat cows with mastitis. It is also heat treated, Comes to humans processed into skimmed, semi skimmed, whole milk, cream, yoghurt and cheese to name but a few.
Add to that the three research papers implicating dairy in the possible connection with PD, I would rather do without it where I can, what's more, I do not feel deprived even though I used to be a cheesaholic.
Regards
Norton
JohnPepper in reply to
Hi owdsod. I like your resigned attitude, but I am unable to just give in and let it all happen. I would rather enjoy a better quality of life, however difficult it might be.
I have not asked the question about drinking. I used to smoke for about ten years, but gave that up at the age of 26. I am not an habitual drinker, but I do like a glass of wine each evening. I have only been doing this for the past year, having not ever drunk regularly in my life before this.
Keep feeding in your ideas, it all adds up to a fountain of knowledge.
John
in reply to
I do at least want to try to live a full life doing what I enjoy doing or eating.
Over time, my trials with diet leave me with one result, an appreciation and caution about what I eat. No observable improvement in my symptoms. I will remain open minded as best I can be as a PwP.
Susie01 in reply to
Very well said.
I've been a veggie for almost 30 years too! Hope this helps....
Hi Kelvin. I meant to ask about vegans and not vegetarians. I am interested to know if any vegan has been diagnosed with Pd, well after becoming a vegan. Perhaps you can tell me whether you ate animal products, like dairy and possibly fish and/or chicken?
John
John you want to know if any Vegan has been diagnosed with Parkinsons and the effect of animal products on our health. This is interesting
Herbert Shelton (1895 - 1985), was a vegan, a naturopath and chiropractor and the founder of the American Natural Hygiene Society and Nature Cure movement in America and prolific health writer advocated a natural food vegetarian diet of mostly raw fruits, vegetables and nuts. He lived in Texas, was physically fit, grew lots of his own food and ate carefully and fasted periodically. he did not get cancer, he did not get heart disease, but he died of Parkinson's disease and was so severely affected by the age of 78 that even walking was difficult.
Hello Hikoi
You mentioned this case to me earlier when we were in correspondence which I thank you for. At that time I did a little research about Herbet Shelton on Dr. Furhman's website and found out that he had attended to Herbet Shelton in his final days. He found that Herbet had almost zero DHA in his blood which surprised him. So, in addition to toxins being implicated in causing PD, is it possible that nutritional deficiencies can also be a cause too? The fact that Herbet Shelton lived to 90 years of age being no consolation having those wretched symptoms for many years!
I am left wondering if this thread will eventually include posts from PwP who have lived a vegan lifestyle for many years.
Regards
Norton
Hello Norton
One mystery solved, i knew I had researched this before but couldn't remember the context. Shelton certainly lived a long life no doubt due to his diet.
As to nutritional causes of PD i really have not read anything on that so I don't know and have no particular thoughts about it either.
As to your wondering about this thread i think it will be difficult to make sense of with vegan and vegetarian getting mixed together.
Hello Hikoi
I have to agree with you about getting mixed up about the distinction between vegetarianism and veganism. It can cause confusion. Even Dr. Furhman's article mentions vegetarian diet, but gives Herbert's food which are entirely vegan.
I hope that John Pepper will run this question again, quoting the differences at the outset. I believe that this is such an important topic, that I will be pleased to
Repeat my points again. If he does, I hope you will too.
Regards
Norton
Hi Hikoi. I am sorry I did not see your response before writing my last reply to susie. So there has been one famous person, who was a vegan but who had Pd. That more or less knocks my theory on the head. I hope that other vegans will also reply, if there are any vegans around, who have Pd.
John
John
One vegan that we know of, does not necessarily mean that your theory is knocked on the head. One of anything is too small a sample size to say for certain although lots of us (and I'm no different) have a tendency to grab and magnify any piece of information that we come across. Herbert Shelton may have had a deficiency of other nutrients other than DHA because he ate too narrow a band of vegan food. For example cola drink and Potatoe crisps are vegan and you could try living exclusively on those, but you would still die of nutritional deficiencies. Extreme example I know, but you get my drift.
Regards
Norton
Hi Norton. We have to always bear in mind that there is not just one type of Pd. There are several., but nobody has tried to separate them into recognizable types. I am going to continue looking at the results that come in, before making any decision. How would I know how many people look at thie post? If the number is way in excess of the replies then we can assume that the people did not repply, because they were neither vegetarians nor vegans.
John
John
I once read that there were about 40 symptoms in PD and of course we each probably only several. I've long thought that the collective term Parkinson's does not reflect the symptoms accurately. For me, it's a syndrome. Anyway, I digress.there are clearly not that many vegans with PD, but you can not really deduce much from your question. I think that to delay the onset of most illness's are concerned, at the very least it is best to adopt a whole food regime.
Regards
Norton
Hi Norton. While agreeing with everything you have passed on to me about diet, I have changed my mind about going onto the Palio diet for a six weeks trial. I have now decided to go onto a VEGAN diet for six weeks, the exact opposite of the Palio. I will give it a full test, without any cheating. Having said this, I still feel that our bodies are meant to eat a mixture of meat fruit and veg. I am not sure about the dairy, which man has been eating for centuries. It is possible that we are not equipped to eat dairy. Whatever we are or are not equipped to eat, I am going onto the VEGAN to give it a try.
John
Hi John! Well, i have had pd for 3 years and have been a veggie for almost 30 years..
Hi kelvin. My mistake, I really meant to say vegan, nit vegetarian. In my ignorance I thought they were the same thing. Were you not vegan?
John
No, I am a veggie! Great thing about mucuna is: I have no side effects. However, the neuros seem to know nothing about it!
Hi Kelvin. I want to avoid bringing in other subjects on this post. Why don't you tell us all about your experience with Mucana Pruriens? Make your own post on the subject!
Jojn
i would be interested in your findings john
ii am veggie rather than vegan and havE psp rather than parkinsons
lol \jill
Hi Jill. Your typing is exactly like mine. I have to go over almost every word before I send my messages.
I assume you eat some dairy products and fish etc.
I was very remiss in not stating VEGAN rather than vegetarian.
What is PSP?
Kind regards
John
I have been vegetarian most of my life, yet still have PD. I exercised regularly and was seen as a "health nut", yet still developed PD...
Hi Susie. Thanks for your response. In addition to vegetables, what else do you eat?
John
John, Norton,
I am lacto-ova vegetarian, I do eat eggs and some dairy products. I was vegan for a time period around 30 years ago but then went back to eating some dairy and the occasional egg. I eat a lot of legumes and nuts for plant based protein.
Hi Susie. Thanks for this information. So far there have been no people, who were vegans before they contracted Pd. That is not a real test, because there are not too many vegans around. I am beginning to feel that becoming a vegan is the only way to go, expecially with other health issues. If only I could get excited about it and not dread the thought of no more meat and/or dairy,
John
Hello again Susie01
Thank you for enlarging on your food regime which, as you say includes dairy and just might be involved in your developing PD. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, there are three research papers implicating dairy. Of course, it is probable that there may be other factors also, but I have stopped all dairy on the strength of the three research papers, save for a splash in my tea and coffee, such is my belief they may just be right.
Thank you for answering my earlier question.
Another question for you, if you don't mind? If I recall correctly, you are a trained diabetic nurse. If so, do you remember how common was Parkinson's amongst them?
Regards
Norton
Norton, until I developed PD I had only known one person who had PD, the father of a friend of mine. I did not see a correlation between PD and diabetes in the population I worked with, thought there does seem to be some research that indicates a correlation. My own family has a very high incidence of Diabetes both type I and type II. I really believe my own PD was linked more with chemical exposure. I grew up much of my life on a farm where at that time chemicals were used without much discretion and we had well water. I do not think I have ever consumed enough dairy to cause my own PD.
Thank you Susie01
We are typical of people who have developed PD, we can not state for certain what caused it in us. Like has been said before in this thread one of the drawbacks of living in the 21st century is our exposure to numerous toxins, many of which we are unaware of, but in my opinion that doesn't mean we have to lay down and die. Speaking for myself I used to accept everything that came my way, but not anymore, where I can help it. Some things are obvious, like dairy products and highly processed foods. It's not as though I want to live forever, but I do have grandchildren who I want to enjoy what time I have remaining.
Take care
Norton
Really enjoyable discussion!! I lived on a farm (below Mt Kosciusko - Aust.) where we were proud of our three milking cows and the thick cream & delicious butter that I enjoyed making. That was my life until 18yrs when I went to Uni - became a PE/sports teacher. Then went to Oregon Uni for 7 years where I went through a Vegan period. For the last 4 yrs we have gone Paleo, with reduced milk, recommended by our dentist after we had ALL mercury removed from our jaws!! Dad had PD in the last 3yrs of his life (died at 76). My tremors - PD, atrial fibrillation and Essential Benign Tremor (started April 2013) within a month of an operation to fix a badly broken left wrist (Tri-Athlon accident 20yrs ago). Emergency situation in Op theatre meant that I was prepared - twice - for the op.; major allergic reaction and diagnosed with PD 3 months later! I was a triathlete, body surfer, ++ - now, am getting back into fast walking, alternate days - up to 50mins now!! Dad had PD, diabetes 2; and died of a sudden heart attack! Mum lived till 81, last 15yrs with Alzheimer's; my younger sister died at 65 with Motor-Neurone disorder! So, a lot of info with links to Paleo, Vegan, Vegetarian, farm life!
I believe my husband has Parkinson's because he was exposed to lots of pesticides when he worked on a farm as a young man. He had symptoms (severe pain at base of skull) that seems to have linked with his PD (from base of skull pain moved into neck and 3 decades later the pain moved down into his left shoulder, upper arm, down to his hand which became slow moving as soon did his left leg just before his diagnosis). He became vegetarian in his 30's but his diet wasn't great - he rarely ate anything green or fresh (other than lots of bananas).
When he met me (vegetarian since age 12) I improved his diet by adding lots of fresh fruit and veg, salads, nuts, beans and legumes and his health and the colour of his skin improved. But we were still eating dairy food most days.
Many years after his PD diagnosis he became vegan, which improved the effectiveness of his medication and his health improved again. While I do not believe his diet had anything to do with him getting Parkinson's Disease, I am convinced it has improved his general health and well-being.
Most of my family are vegan now, the rest are vegetarian. My vegetarian mother will be 92 and my recently vegan father will be 99 next year (both vegetarians since the 1960's). They are both in amazing health - no walking aids, sharp minds ('though Dad more than Mum), bright eyes and they could pass for 20 - 30 years younger. They have lived to see the birth of their first great great grandchild. They have both lived longer than any of their deceased relatives. Our whole family treasures their presence and their years of experience and history. My father wrote his memoires over the last few years, after outliving all his siblings - all younger, all meat eaters and with poor health for a decade or two before their deaths.
My main point here is that in our experience, eating a plant-rich diet is healthy and life giving, regardless of whether you have Parkinson's Disease or not. Plant foods are rich in nutrients - vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, beneficial enzymes, and they contain more than enough protein to sustain us. (Other than a starving person, have you ever seen someone who is deficient in protein?) Plant foods support your body's ability to heal itself, so they may help prevent you getting PD, or at least improve your general health if you do have PD (or any other condition). Isn't better health and a longer life worth more than the taste of meat?
If eating our western diet were detrimental for PD, then how is it that 98 percent of people never get PD? Go with what is apparently universally working I say. Isn’t this obvious when pointed out?
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