Is anyone else aware that folic acid has a remarkable affect on Pd?

I am passing on information received from 'Norton', which is very enlightening. I have been taking folic acid for many years. it costs very little and is obtainable in tablet form by the 100. Maybe, just maybe, this is the reason, or just one of the reasons why I am so well today.

These are 2 websites worth visiting:

www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press...

neurotalk.psychcentral.com/...

'Norton' also passed on the following site, which tells you what foods contain folic acid:

globalhealingcenter.com/nat...

I seem to remember a famous US president who did not like brocoli. Maybe he ate a lot of other foods that contain folic acid!

Keep smiling

John

60 Replies

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  • Hello John

    Thank you for posting these links which appear to represent a significant step forward in respect that a nutrient, folic acid, may prove to be connected with Parkinson's. At 67 yrs old I can not afford to wait for a new drug cure, so I will be adopting the 'high folic acid' diet given in your third link and it appears easy to incorporate into day to day living. I am heartened by the fact that you have been taking a folic acid supplement for years and wonder if this has had anything to do with your improvement, but note that you are NOT claiming as such and we all know how much importance you place in walking exercise. Thank you for your post.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Clanchattan

    I could not agree with you more about putting your sister off taking statins. In the UK about three weeks ago there was some advice to eat an apple everyday as it was as effective as taking statins.

    Apparently you only get cholesterol by eating animal flesh and products such as cheese. So........

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Clanchattan

    I have to tell you that I have to take medication. Why? Well, because I tried to come off them and my tremor worsened to the point where I felt that I could not go out. I understand your thoughts about stressing your liver out (Another post) but I waited two years from initial DX before starting medication. I have come to the conclusion that some drugs maybe necessary for some PwP.

    I do not subscribe to you thinking that by calling yourself a vegan people will think you a fanatic. If that type of lifestyle stopped you from having 100's of mini strokes, I call you 'enlightened'. What worries me about you is that in another post on this site you were thinking of changing significantly as from last night. Why, I don't know! I'm no expert, but I have tried various strategies in the past and would be willing to discuss my experiences, but they are just that 'my experiences'.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Clanchattan. If Ketosis is going to heal you further, then I understand you trying it. Satwar (Canada) is an interesting person regarding Ketosis, but also takes Coconut Oil (but you would not call it a whole food).

    If I'm not being too intrusive, may I ask how long has your sister been DX and which medications has she been taking?)

    As I see it, I do not want to flood my liver with drugs if I can help it (toxins). I'm on two Sinemet and Azilect. Sinemet is according to at least one authority, low in toxins and for a lot of PwP reasonably effective. Azilect is something I'm not sure about, but have only been on it a few weeks and it takes about 12 weeks to maximise effectiveness (according to some PwP) and may even enable me to reduce on the Sinemet a little, eventually.

    As for reversing symptoms John Pepper is your man. He has had Parkinson's many years and is nearly eighty and not on medications anymore. He must have been doing something right.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Clanchattan. I've never experienced dizziness or nausea after taking Sinemet. Some on this site have so I can not say either experience as 'normal'.

    As far as ketosis, I think that most of us experience it to some degree during the latter stage after eating supper, but before breakfast. I've heard that fasting can be beneficial, but have not fasted myself. Satwar is your man for Ketosis.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Clanchattan

    It is not clear to me quite why you have gone on a ketosis generating fast. You have stopped your multiple strokes which is a huge step forward and you don't need me to tell you that.

    How long do you intend to stay on it? What will define the end point of the fast?

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Clanchattan

    Wishing you every success and hope your health improves as a result of your sterling effort.

    In the meantime, why not tell us about your vegan diet. Did you follow any particular person or a book(s)? Your motivation might not have been parkinsons, but the fact that your sister has it and you largely healed your brain is of interest. You have an interesting tale to tell!

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Hi Clanchattan. Balance normally has two components. 1. The ability of the inner ear to convey the warning that the body is going out of balance, becasue of the brain's inability to communicate with the muscles quick enough to counteract the balance problem!

    2. The lack of muscle tone in th leg muscles, which makes the legs unable to rectify the problem in time. I know that not many people like to exercise their bodies, as they get older, but if we want to improve our quality of life, we just have to do some regular exercise to improve muscle tone and size. I do at least 50 squats a day and 50 standing up on my toes a day, among other exercises. In that way, my legs stay strong and I don't have a problem maintaining my balance. I still tend to fall over, but I am able to rectify the fall before it gets to the point of no return.

    Try it!

    John

  • Hi Clanchattan. I have problams with my left ear. It fills up with wax very quickly. I have been following your chat with Norton and am impressed with your ability to have overcome these strokes. Well done! Cars do tend to win arguments in traffic! I have personally steered well clear of motor cycles, having lost many friends over the years and worst of all, two friends who have been left as quadriplegics. That is no life for them. At least we Pd patients have a full-time job of trying to beat this condition. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Who said life would be easy?

    John

  • Hello Clanchattan

    Apart from Dr. Swank who is best known, as you say, for healing MS. I have read all about him, but I am asking you for the name(s) of any other advocate of eating a plant based diet that you recommend? The one that you have followed, personally yourself.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Clanchattan

    As I see it, the common factors between all of them is definitely no meat, fish or animal products of any kind. This includes no milk or eggs even. Since cholesterol comes from animals and fish sources apart from that made in the liver it appears that statins are unnecessary if you give up food from outside the body. I wonder if you had a high cholesterol level which was implicated in your having vascular strokes and by eating only plant based food lowered your cholesterol which resulted in no more strikes?

    If so, let us hope the fast you are now embarking on has similar beneficial effects.

    Thank you again.

    Norton

  • Hi clanchattan. I have to take issue on this, "No Meat" theory. We were created as hunter gatherers. We therefore had the digestive system to eat meat and plants. The chances were that we caught a lot less meat than we found suitable plants. So, I would think that we should eat less meat than vegies. Meat has important minerals and vitamins, but, not being highly educated, I can't remember what they are. I don't believe in any diet that says NO this or that! Except when it comes to artificial food. There I draw a line. Sugar and processed foods carry lots of very unfriendly substances and they are definitely no good for us. So, I try to steer well clear of white flour and sugar. But having said this, I do like an apple crumble occasionally!

    John

  • Hi clanchattan. I have always tried to eat in moderation. I don't only mean quantity but quality and variety. But as they say, "All things in moderation, including moderation". I am going to try the ketatonic diet for six seeks, and then see how I feel and how well I am. If then I can reintroduce the odd item of starch, such as a baked potato or some brown bread with cheese on it, I will see what happens! How does that sound to you?

    John

  • Hello John

    This thread is really interesting, but please be careful as there are warnings on some of the websites. Going on a fast like ClanChattan is one thing, but another way is to eat a diet of high fat, moderate protein and very little carbs is another. I don't know if you understand that. Remember too, that there maybe other PwP reading this thread, but who are taking medication(s) and who think they may follow you two who are not taking any medication(s). I don't fully understand myself, but I should think it maybe dangerous for them to follow suit likewise. May I suggest that you include a caution somewhere in this thread!

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello clanchattan

    It's amazing what other effects you are experiencing in addition to losing weight whilst 'fasting'. Re the all night erection. Does it stop you from turning over during the night? Seriously, my take on this is that you have gotten your cholesterol level down sufficiently to a point where the blood flow to your male member has increased dramatically. On your own admittance you had a vascular problem in your brain causing you to have all those mini strokes. Your vegan diet sorted that out for you. The way I look at it is that if you had a cholesterol problem in one area of your body, it is likely that other areas of your body also were affected too. This fast has probably cleaned up your whole body of excess cholesterol. As a layman, this is my take on your recovery. You are a determined man and you deserve to improve your health by dint of your efforts.

    Thank you for reporting here.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi clanchattan. Just remind me, what is an erection? That disappeared many years ago. I don't think there is anything wrong with my plumbing, as I am able to walk 4 miles in an hour, at the age of 79. There must be some other factor involved and I think it is the libido, which just left me in the lurch. I have another problem in that area called Pyrone's disease. Look it up, it's a giggle.

    John

  • Hello John

    I have looked up Pyronies and must admit I have never heard of it before. Did you also mention previously something about an auto immune condition in your mouth? Well, I have been doing quite a bit of research of late and it appears that you may be helped by diet just as Clanchattan has helped himself. If you are open for learning more, I would be pleased to send you some case histories of people who have overcomes their auto immune conditions. For anybody else who is reading, this does not include overcoming Parkinson's, but it may stop or reduce the speed

    Parkinson's progresses.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Clanchattan

    Interesting! You mentioned about a high fat meal causing small capillaries being slowed down or even blocked, but what you don't say is what are the consequences of this happening. I think I know what you are getting at, but please spell the consequences out for me. As you will be aware there are more than a few PwP on this website taking several tablespoonful of coconut oil every day.from your reading and understanding, could this be harmful in the long - term?

    Regards

    Norton

  • Woo ah Clanchattan, you are going too fast for me. Remember you've had two years of intensive study to obtain your knowledge of where you are at right now, compared with you I am a beginner.

    Going back to my original question, are you saying it is not advisable to eat several tablespoonful of coconut oil a day over a long period of time? In your opinion would it cause vasculitis? On the other hand would a vegan diet not cause any of the conditions you mention and better still clear them up?

    Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to get right to the point, quickly. At 67 yrs of age I do not feel time is on my side.

    Once again, I have to say I'm pleased you are part of this discussion.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you ClanChattan for explaining these nutritional things at a deeper level.

    Are you saying that extracted saturated fats, whilst not as bad as trans fats, are not necessarily good for us in that form.

    Also, are you saying that our diets should be based around starch foods, presumably, rice, wheat, potatoes and the like?

    If so, did you eat these foods whilst overcoming the mini strokes you experienced? Also, no oil at all, not even salad dressings? Previously, you mentioned several people's names who are 'big' in the vegan world. For PwP who may be reading this thread if you had to choose one of them to follow, who would you recommend?

    I hope that you don't mind me asking all these questions, but i am trying to glean from you information that may lead us to better health, no matter what our health problem.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Clanchattan. You certainly embrace teachings on what you believe. The remarkable thing is that it has worked for you. I looked up the Abstract of the scientific research you gave and I must say it is impressive what the vegan diet did. Any other case histories on the vegan diet would be welcome, but I shall visit McDougalls website on 'star MacDougaller's' again. It looked good at first glance.

    Would you clarify again on what the results of your fast were in a little more detail please.

    Regards

    Norton

  • I hope there are many people reading this thread who have followed it from the beginning. If so, they can not failed to be impressed with the improvements in your physiology. What impresses me about you is that you have been driven to a vegan diet to try and do something about your ill health and not just because you do not agree with eating animals, although that is an added bonus, don't you think?

    When I look back, I was brought up believing that meat/fish were essential to good health; not now do I believe that! Presumably, you do not take any milk in either? With the list of improvements you have experienced, it does not surprise me that many in your family are going to follow your lead. I don't know if there is any mileage left in this thread as it has culminated in a considerable success story. Perhaps I should summarise what I have learnt from this discussion:

    1. Cut out all animal/fish products from your diet.

    That includes cheese/milk etc.

    2.Eat grains, fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds.

    Cut out all supplements with the exception of vitamin B12.

    3. Read up about the vegan/plant diet from books written by McDougall, Esslestyne, Colin T. Campbell.

    Have I essentially got that right? Please amend add or delete as appropriate.

    Kind regards

    Norton

    PS. What was your lifestyle BEFORE you changed to a vegan diet?

  • ClanChattan

    Thank you, but what was your lifestyle before changing to a vegan diet. I recall that you were a bricklayer. What was your diet then?

    Regards

    Norton

  • That sounds a little like some of the protein diets I have read about, with the exception of the bread in the meat sandwiches. Some even recommend cream in addition to the other foods you used to eat. I take it that the foods you eat on your vegan path are satisfying compared with what you eat now?

    Regards

    Norton

  • That sums it up nicely ClanChattan. I think that we are coming to a natural conclusion on this thread unless John or anyone else have more questions. As I see it, although I take drugs for my Parkinson's it may make sense to look at our diets and adopt one in the hope that it enhances the uptake of our medications and so extend our 'on time' and maybe slow down or stop its progress.

    Thank you for your contribution on this topic and I hope that you stay around this website encouraging anybody who wishes to try it. Please pass on my best wishes to your sister.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Thank you ClanChattan. I certainly will and I hope others will be inspired by your experience.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Hi clanchattan. Celebratons! You did it! I hope you stay in that euphoric state! Keep us all informed. I live in a retirement village and although the food is very edible and nutritious, we can't ask them to serve a meal that fits in with the Keto diet. I will have to make some other plan for the six week trial.

    John

  • Hi clanchattan. Watch this space!

    John

  • Hi Norton. You are a real friend! Yes, I would love to receive anything that will help me cope with my various problems. I will try anything that sounds credible. Adverts I generally ignore.

    Kind regards

    John

  • John

    I do not know if you watch Youtube much, but there is a wealth of information out there which you will find interesting I'm sure. Clanchattan mentioned McDougall for a start, so, if you would care to go to YouTube and put in ,Dr. John McDougall'. Then look for a talk called 'the Starch solution' you will learn things there that will open your eyes, maybe. Then have a look at some of his 3-4 minute talks to gen up on. What you and I find out there is totally different from what we hear about elsewhere. It appears simple to put into practice, save money on food. Notice his physic, not bad for someone who is in his late 60's and who suffered a massive stroke at aged 18.

    No adverts!

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Hi Norton. I did not think of that problem. I will mention it every time now. I am used to telling people that I am not a doctor and now I must also tell them that I don't take any medication. I am therefore very different to other PwPs, in that I am in full control of my body and not any medication!

    John

  • What is the name of the book you wrote on pd. I would like to get it. Thank you.

  • Hi cshamb. I don't know if you are adressing this question to me. If you are, my book is titled, "Reverse Parkinson's Disease". It is available on my website, reverseparkinsons.net or on amazon.com.

    I am very impressed with all this talk about a vegan diet, but am confused by the absolute opposite ketogenic diet. How can both be right? My gut feel tells me that the least likely to harm us is the vegan diet and as such, I have decided to go onto it as soon as I get back to my new home in Cape Town. Until then, I am going to cut out meat and dairy, as close as possible, and avoid sugar and white flour as best I can.

    My story of my recovery does not mention anything about diet. I have always eaten a middle of the road diet of meat and veg, not any different to most people of my age. I have never eaten much junk food and have avoided meals without green vegetables as much as possible. My story is much more to do with making walking, for one hour, three times a week; cutting down all harmful stress; taking only an MAO-b inhibitor and not taking any levodopa medication or agonists; adopting a positive attitude towards my Pd; and only taking chellated calcium and magnesium tablets and folic acid tablets. I have subsequently been made aware that certain foods contain enough folic acid to meet our needs and would have avoided taking those tablets had I known.

    John

  • HELLO Norton,

    I am taking folic acid in a natural form Citrus fruit 'Mosambi' every day, it helps. Please let the other members know.

    Regards

  • Hello Clanchattan

    It's good to have you a member of this website. You make some good points ie. diet. A high folic acid diet consists of plant based foods such as: broccoli, kale, spinach, beans, peas and lentils, avocado and citrus fruit. All, good, healthy foods.

    As for the master antioxidant Glutathione, yes effective application is by IV, but in the UK will have to be paid for privately, even if you could find a medic who provides such treatment. As you say the body can not assimulate Gluthathione directly through the digestive system.

    Please keep us updated with your sister's progress; does she take allopathic medication yet? She is indeed fortunate in having you on her side.

    Best wishes to you both.

    Regards

    Norton

  • My husband took Shaklee B complex and VitD. It really helped his energy level and neoropathy

  • Hello wifeofparky

    I am always willing to learn, so may I ask what is the amount of (folic acid - folate) in the Shaklee B complex tablets and how does this compare with the RDA?

    Regards

    norton

  • Hi Norton. Thanks for your support and input.

    John

  • John,

    the reason "W" Bush didn't like broccoli is because he probably is one of those people who has a gene that makes broccoli taste vile. Saw a science show on this. Not a fan of Bush43 and love broccoli myself but this info gave me some compassion for him.

  • I would say that BEFORE commencing folic acid supplementation have blood test to look for any abnormalities and as a base reference for what your levels were at a particular point in time. Folic acid supplementation is known to mask B12 deficiency (it shrinks the large misshapen platelets that help in B12def. diagnosis), and not all of its effects are positive. It is part of a wider set of interactions that affect wellness, and I would advise talking to your GP about this. Over supplementation is also not a great thing. Do your research before making a decision, and check out how to read your blood results. On the other hand there is the possibility that folic acid could hold some keys to why we get PD.

  • Thank you Lindylanka for your input and caution, but what about eating a diet high in folic acid? Is this OK as far as you are aware?

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Clanchattan

    I can see your point about eating whole foods to obtain the nutrients our body needs, but isn't it reductionist then to take a vitamin B12 supplement?

    If people eat meat are they then not getting sufficient B12? With many people not eating a whole food diet nowadays isn't it likely that they also suffer other nutritional deficiencies in addition to vitamin B12?

    Regards

    Norton

  • For me you are not getting boring, far from it! This thread is developing into something interesting as I see it. This is a discussion that needs to be had. Are you aware that there is a group of PwP on this site who see the way forward by eating coconut oil daily, one or two go further by eating a Ketogenic diet and it appears that some are improving their symptoms, but not all who have tried it.

    I've long thought that diet is probably the most important factor in which chronic conditions we are likely to develop. After all we are taking in our environment through our body's aren't we?

    As for yourself, I hope that you tell us your story and whatever you are doing to help your sister who has Parkinson's.

    For me, I'm waiting to know, we'll see if others are.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Clanchattan. My, you have been through the mill. I fear having a stroke as its in my family and I have seen how destructive they can be.

    What I like about your posts is that they appear well researched AND you have tried various diets on yourself. You have earned your spurs as they say, just as John Pepper has.

    Please tell us, have you reduced or stopped the incidences of your strokes?

    Please tell us more about your sister who has PD. Would you say she has reversed some of her symptoms? Is she eating the same diet as you now?

    There's a lot more info I would like to extract from you if you don't mind, but I'm sure you would say if I am pushing you too fast.

    Thank you for your contributions to date.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you for your quick response to my last post.

    Stopping the strokes is fantastic and I would think that whatever regime you have followed would be beneficial for the majority of people. For instance there is a form of Parkinson's called Vascular Parkinson's and since the majority of us are diagnosed without having had a scan, I should think it likely that a lot more people have the Vascular form than is thought.

    When are you going to telling us how you did it? What books did you follow if any.?

    Regards

    Norton

  • Clanchattan

    Thank you. In your own time and I for one will be pleased to read what you choose to tell us.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi Clanchattan

    Thank you. Yes, you are right. Intuitively, I keep away from chemicals as much as I can. I know that many of them are absorbed through the skin. As for beauty products I have never used any in case my wife thought I was not the man she married!

    Regards

    Norton

  • Good to know and can't hurt.

  • Hi Clanchattan & Norton. I have been very lax this past week, as I am moving home from Johannesburg to Cape Town. I will be back in the saddle next week! Keep up the good work.

    John

  • Hi John where can I purchase your book

  • Annie11

    As you see in this thread, John is away for a few days, because he is moving home. If he doesn't mind, I can tell you the title of his book as I bought the Kindle edition, it's title is 'reversing Parkinson's disease'. I bought it through Amazon.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Norton...John did answer back..tried to buy on amazon but they are out..I will try our local bookstore also

  • Hi Annie11. I am surprised, as they print on demand. If you go to my website, reverseparkinsons.net you can also order a book direct from me and I pay the delivery costs.

    John

  • Hi Annie. I have just read all these responses to this article and want to thank Norton for answering your question. The problem is that he gave the slightly wrong title. It is 'Reverse Parkinson's Disease'. I hope you can find it on Amazon.com, or else go to my website - reverseparkinsons.net - Good luck

    John

  • Hi Annie11. My book is titled, "Reverse Parkinson's Disease". Thanks Norton for telling Annie, but the name given was slightly wrong. My furniture has all gone and we are more or less camping with what is left. You can talk about "Stress", well I have been very stressed over the past five days, with all the packing and forms to fill in. I shook so much yesterday that I could not hold the pen to sign the inventory list. Stress really does set me back on my heels.

    John

  • A few years ago, I had these terrible headaches - went to a Neurosurgeon for tests - and he subscribed Folic Acid.

    I took it for a long time, but then forgot about it. Definitely going to start using it again.

  • Hello Anid

    Instead of taking a folic acid supplement have you thought of adopting a 'folic acid diet' which maybe more beneficial to you? If you put in a search for 'folic acid diet Dr. Group' you will find it gives some great suggestions for you to incorporate or base your meals around.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi John, my husband has had tremor based pd for 10yrs and is currently taking a sublingual form of 800 mcg folic acid along with a lot of other vitamins. He is functioning pretty well but has ups and downs on a daily basis. I'm thinking about adding more folic acid but am not sure if that's a good idea....any suggestions?

  • Hi John, I also believe in taking folic acid. Yesterday we were discussing it and one of the people said he read somewhere that it is very very bad for men who have problems with their prostate. I can hardly believe that what is good for women are bad for men - in this case

  • Hi Anid. You would have to ask a professional this question. Folic acid worksw in the brain, not in the groin. However! The brain controls everything in the body and might have different effects fotr the sexes, but I doubt it. Don't forget that you can get folic acid from plants.

    John

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