Well maybe they are waiting to see how it goes on the first week and giving people a little time to adjust, but I don’t think the government can monitor and enforce much here. I don’t think people believe they will be fined and it’s a weak threat as such.
Wear your face mask or face £100 fine! The Times 13.... - NRAS
What are they going to do have a 6 foot copper arrest a frail old biddy like me if I forget my mask?
Then we could all have a march “SAVE AC”
I know that is daft .....but no dafter than saying fining people without a mask .
The mask-less.......will probably be able to run faster than that six-foot copper!
I don’t know what they’d do or what you’d do if you forgot your mask and they wouldn’t let you on a bus. You’ll have to let us know!
You don’t think mask wearing on public transport is a good idea then?
I don’t think it is daft at all when people are trying to lessen the spread of a virus. I’m sure many others don’t think it daft either.
No NK....you got the wrong end of the stick.....I meant the idea I would be arrested is daft! Well I hope it is😷!
I‘ll have you know I have a very elegant mask wardrobe!
In fact I never use public transport.....but I definitely wear a mask in shops....I know I’m not infected so far....so now is not the time to throw caution to the wind!
Ahh .. it was because you said .. if I forget my mask ..
Yup .. the transport police should fine people without masks on public transport .. if it will get them to put one on. It’s so, so difficult to police and enforce.
They wouldn’t arrest a passive elderly person I’m sure for non mask wearing but would caution. “Encourage and Explain” would be appropriate, as detailed in the Times article. I do think that if a senior person got out of hand and was abusive and disturbing the peace re refusing to wear a mask, then regardless of age and fragility they could well be fined.
The government, police and transport police don’t think its daft to fine people and I agree. There has to be some form of deterrent for non compliance. I don’t wish to take pleasure in seeing people fined but to make them see sense. Stop the spread. Protect people.
The five Es they talk about in the article : ENGAGE EXPLAIN ENCOURAGE ENABLE ENFORCE are all going to be part of a government huge public information campaign on mask wearing . I am sure posters and adverts are soon going to be everywhere. We may even have a flyer through our doors.
Glad to hear you have many (chic) masks. I can’t get on public transport by myself but wouldn’t dream of it whilst people are not bothering to wear masks. I haven’t been on any public transport since on a train with my husband last October. I doubt I will be on any public transport for some very considerable time. I feel sorry for those who are having to use public transport with no alternative and wearing their masks, but have to sit near those who won’t/don’t. Unfait really. The government will try all they can to push the masks as compulsory I feel, as they have to knowing they have just eased up to one metre distancing.
I think they have lost all Authority....they should have had a very public “Masks On from Now On” campaign & plastered It all over the newspapers & on TV.
Right now if a poll was taken - a large proportion would not know what the situation is.
After all if they can ditch Track&Trace until something that works is found ....funding is obviously not a problem.
They wont arrest but you would get a fine and I think it would be deserved by those not following the law for the reasons below.
I think it should be law for the good of all of us during a pandemic, and as such should be enforced. I take it the transport police would be involved if you dont obey the law.
I hope people follow these rules so the rest of us can get back to normal more quickly, so the virus spreads less quickly rather than a devastating lockdown period again which would affect many people and children physically and emotionally.
Masks are to stop you spreading the disease much more than protection.
And frail old biddies( you called yourself , lol, )are at more risk than the general public of course!!
So yes masks and even face Shields are the way to go I think
Absolutely, Alannah. Spot on. Masks are to reduce the risks of spreading and I do feel they will be here to stay for some time. Maybe they’ll increase fines for repeat offenders too, as they did for some repeat offenders for not distancing. Could be a very expensive business for an act/acts of defiance/indifference or whatever reason they can’t be bothered to wear a mask. More importantly it says to me that you don’t care if you spread the virus. I find that unacceptable.
There are exceptions allowed for breathing difficulties, disabilities and children.
I'm certain there aren't enough BTP to go half way to enforcing this. And if they are trying to recruit 20,000 new officer at the moment it beggars belief that there are enough police to enforce some of the legislation that has been some sort of knee jerk reaction. When the police say they could not police the protest gatherings when its against the law for 6 people to meet together by instruction then are those who won't wear a mask going to listen to any 'e''s ? I do agree masks are important but taking up court time to enforce fines will just not be practicable.
I would like to see the track and trace app. running and put on all mobile phones as a statutory requirement and be unable to remove because how can a person be prosecuted for not tying a hanky over his nose and mouth but not be because he chooses not to download an app. which details contacts in the event of a positive test. I'll wear a mask provided the shielded ever get to use public transport again because it seems sensible to me to do so but think gloves are also needed along with common sense. Train operators might have might have people at every point of station entry handing out masks but most certainly not a BT officer on every train or bus to catch those who take them off. .
I think as said it’s going to be so hard to try do the 5 Es , and all credit for trying to do something, but there will be much resistance and non compliance. No, security staff cannot keep checking that people have their masks on all the time . I read a local Yorkshire paper today and it was disappointing to see some letters which went along the lines of .. I’m not wearing any mask and it’s all a load of rubbish to make us wear them. Hard to change those attitudes. I read that in London last Monday there were staff from Transport for London handing out thousands of masks at bus and tube stations. I said earlier too that if social distancing requests weren’t acted on then masks aren’t likely to be either. I’m not sure how the track and trace will go ......
A couple handing of staff not masses of them handing out masks and people had to go to the table but thats when the trains are not rammed. Fines won't be paid and it'll cost more to enforce than they'll ever collect. It's believed nearly a quarter of people travelling on the trains are not buying tickets and they only catch a handful. The poor police are already overworked and struggling to control parades etc the government can't just keep passing regulations and expecting public employees to pick up the pieces. Anyone who saw the lady police officers abused last weekend would think we're living in a lawless society not the UK. After all after the D.Cummins event why should people follow advice that those in power don't seem to think is important to follow themselves. I suspect at some point the fines will written off as if unpaid they must go to court to enforce and it'll be another Uturn because it'll cost too much and the magistrates will be backed up from all the cases not being heard now. I think it's distracting from the issues of the lack of track and trace and protect. And I hope and pray there is no second wave caused by the lack of enforcing the 6 people rule that has already taken place.
Yes as I said it’s not going to be easy .. nigh on impossible in parts to try make this happen .. we watch and wait. I don’t live in London or see people who are at public stations, so it’s what I have read and seen on video. It can be difficult to see a full picture of it all too from a short report. Fully agree the poor police are so overworked and the question of chasing up fines etc is going to be hard. My best friend’s partner is a sergeant who is head of the Covid team in a major northern town near myself. Yes, the reaction to Cummins was just so disappointing and inevitable that if he doesn’t stay home and distance then why should others? Hardly setting a good example. Exactly the discussion my partner and I had. Not do as I do but do as I say. I saw a table at a station with masks on on FB news and they looked opened/uncovered. That doesn’t seem hygienic, but that’s another aspect.
I read about the madness in the river in Richmond a few weeks ago. Our best friends live in Richmond and we have visited often and have seen the crazy happenings of drunks on the rocks/falls there last Easter when we went to stay. They knew it would be bad with no distancing in the town centre and last bank hol was awful with people trashing the place and crowding together in the sun. They headed off early that Saturday morning in their motor home for The Dales and stayed in a free place to park all the bank hol weekend to avoid the Richmond invasion! It’s awful they had to leave their home when all these drunken disrespectful people arrive en mass.
I think this, to me, is the way to do it.
No one should be allowed on any form of public transport, without a mask.
Those who have a valid reason for not wearing them, should have some sort of card or something, to validate.
If you don’t have a mask, or validation, you simply don’t get on.
I think people would get with it quickly enough if public transport was their only means of getting around?
Well I feel like that, but also think it won’t be easy to make it happen. That’s basically what TfL we’re saying I read .. no mask, no travel. It all depends too on how long the government want the public to wear the masks. I would think it is for quite some time. Whether the government will be harsher in their “enforce” part of the campaign remains to be seen.
There is a huge difference between being legally enforceable and being able to actually enforce. After issuing the fine a person may not pay so a summons must be issued and to do that a number of things are done. It'd take me all evening to explain that this is nigh on unenforceable as you'd have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person wilfully refused or culpably neglected to wear a mask rather than the neckerchief simply fell down or they were a bit short of breath and took it off as they don't need to prove why they can't wear a mask but the prosecutor must show that they could but didn't.
Yup .. all of that would be so complex. There will be some cases of those blatantly refusing to wear masks and objecting so much/becoming aggressive that they are arrested or detained. Some rebellious type incidents. Hopefully not too many. Just as there were for non compliance of distancing. At present, I don’t see arrests for people not wearing masks as the police stations could be ... pretty full! They won’t want all that extra work either of form filling and admin. I understand this first week was to go easier on people and let them get used to the mask wearing, so we’ll see what happens differently next week.
Yuk .. being sat on. 😍 It was the drivers not waiting for me to get on/off before pulling away and it was buses refusing to pull in to the raised kerb access points. They said they couldn’t get back out into the flow of traffic so you were expected to go into the road and climb on and they wouldn’t lower the bus platform .... I used buses when I didn’t want to park my car in some city centres (Vandalism need my college.)
I think you might have to face your fear as it’s quite likely that masks are going to be a new part of our life into the future. I’m not in the UK, but we have to wear them in some shops, going into restaurants, going to the doctors or hospitals and other public places like libraries and so on. Even walking in town people wear them. Also on planes (not that there are that many commercial flights right now!).
Even if they only provide small protection I’m happy about this decision. And it may well have contributed to France having about half the deaths that the UK has... And they have issued over a million fines for rule breaking since start of this so get quite serious over it.
My french friend who lives approx 20 miles south of Paris told me last month that their local major (in Viry-Chatillon) arranged for everyone to have a free washable reusable mask and many carbon filter inserts and they had to go collect from the offices (socially distancing of course!) where the admins opened a window and passed an envelope to them on the ledge. She said her name and address and her council reference number, and the admin lady gave her four masks .. one for her, hubby and two teenage daughters so they were very organised indeed. I’m impressed!
I was always very pro-mask right from the start and always thought we were told here that they didn’t provide much protection as that was what Hancock and co wanted us to believe so people wouldn’t rush to buy all the surgical type ones the hospitals and medics needed. I was really shocked when they said you don’t need a mask and said to my hubby .. don’t care what the government tells us, a mask provides protection. I understand the government not wanting panic buyers to take masks from the hospitals, but there were other types people could buy (and did!) I got some from China which are a really good fit and have the insert pouch for the filters. They are adjustable over the ears and an internal bendable soft metal nose piece. They are wider masks than others I’ve seen and extend more towards the ear. Comfy and soft too. I also have a couple from a company in Huddersfield who are the number one U.K. bestseller, I believe and again another very good fit. Different sizes too. Have a liquid repellant covering but are very comfortable. I wish the U.K. had been wearing masks sooner. I just hope people won’t be too self conscious to wear them. I’ve never really bothered about what people think about what I wear. I have always been quite an exotic hat wearer so anyone looking doesn’t bother me! 😁 Hope you are well HH. x
Many towns and villages in France have dished out free masks, and have voluntary groups of mask makers too which makes sure no-one goes without. My GP also gave me medical grade ones for free as felt I should be used the most protection possible. And our mayor popped round early on to check we were ok and didn’t need anything, as they have a list of the over 60’s. So I can’t fault the local level support - and it makes up for our lockdown being much tighter than in the UK. 1km from home doesn’t get you very far!
Sorry to hear this affects you like that. A simple cotton mask is very easy to breathe through, advised anywhere indoors eg shops, GP, hospitals etc, and of course on public transport.
I’d rather wear my homemade masks than risk COVID-19.
I think the legal requirements vary across the UK. The only exemption I have seen is for under fives.
Nice place ,😀 but I just see that as the people in the queue not realising that a big issue is them breathing out covid without them knowing they gave it. That will kill some people and make the pandemic go on longer , even if it means you have nice new pjs to go to hospital in !!! Nah I agree with the article overall I think xxx
I’ve seen it as being required to have a mask to go to the doctor or hospital. I wore a mask and gloves in April to go for a blood test at my GP’s surgery and when I phoned a couple of weeks ago to book the one I went to last week, the receptionist said when I booked it ... please come wearing a mask and gloves ... which I said I had ready. She said failure of patients to do so would mean they would not be admitted. I do feel they would have provided a disposable surgical mask and not turned people away. My biologics sister from the hospital told me last month that all people going to that hospital have to have a mask to enter. Not gloves though as they insist on the anti bac when you enter the building.
That’s so true and my hubby and I said this recently. The gloves could spread the virus unless you are going to blather them with anti bac each time you use the same pair and go in a different place. Or do you take several pairs and change for each shop? Doesn’t make sense. They’re good for a one place a week visit like the supermarket. Or doctor’s appointment if they stipulate you have to wear them to be let in.
This might be a 'Stupid' question but... Why NOT just use a mask? They are NOT expensive, if you are careful, and it might- very well- Save Your Life! Yes a 'Tad' uncomfortable but, So what!
I'm sorry Neonkittie17 but I don't 'see' the Problem here. Surely you, do recognize, the need to protect yourself, don't you?
Personally I'm, very surprised, that a Fine should even be required- I will certainly be wearing a Mask... Non-woven and disposable.
I don’t understand your post Andrew. I’m all for wearing masks. Absolutely. I think you may have confused me with someone else. I said I’ve got several and highly recommend some in particular and I’ve worn them already, so it’s not me who is saying I won’t be wearing one. I’ve been saying for months we need them so I think you may have confused me with someone else.
On June 17th I went on public transport for the first time since March 19th. I wore a mask. I went on a 10-minute journey by train to a station on the edge of the city centre. Most seats had large signs on them saying they were not to be used, so as to spread people out. In fact there were only two other people in the compartment and they were wearing masks. As there aren't many trains, I had to return by bus (about 20 minutes) - a bad experience. There were 4 passengers already on, 2 wearing masks properly, one with one round her neck - I stared at her and she put it on - and one with no sign of a mask. At least they were spaced out, but the one with no mask was sitting at the front and everyone had to pass close to her as they got on or off.
When she got up to get off, I said, "Excuse me, we are supposed to wear a mask on the bus." She said she had one in her bag and I said it wouldn't do much good there. The driver said nothing.
Before that, a young man had got on with a mask round his neck. He told the driver where he was going, the driver told him the fare, but said nothing about the mask. When I stood up to get off, I pointed out to him that he should be wearing the mask. He said OK, but did nothing.
I have reported this to the bus company (Stagecoach) and been given a milk-and-water reply about giving people time to get used to it and some people being exempt. They even patronised me with a link to the regulations, which I had already read. I have pursued this through various channels and consequently had correspondence with the CEO of Stagecoach, but it's all feeble hand-wringing about how they can't enforce it, only the police or the transport police can do that. I reckon the chances of them being around at the right time is effectively zero.
My conclusion is that the bus company is not prepared to enforce wearing face-covering and that even if non-compliant passengers were challenged over it, it would be sufficient to claim they were exempt - no proof required. The more people see that you can leave off a mask without there being consequences, the more they will do it. in France and Italy people had to carry a certificate to show why they were out during strict lockdown. I think we should have one for the people who genuinely can't wear masks.
Unfortunately, I will have no alternative but to use public transport if and when the opportunity for a bit of normal life returns. I do not feel confident about my safety.
I can understand your frustrations re the people with masks round their necks and not wearing them properly. If they’ve got a mask and managed to get it to their neck then why not put it on their nose and mouth? 😑🤨. Also the bus company Won’t enforce any fines etc as they are right that it would be the transport police doing that. The bus companies won’t want to get involved to that extent as said on previous posts on this thread, so it’s really frustrating for those like yourself who are taking the right measures. I’ve close friends in Rome and Paris and they told me a long time ago re the restrictions on going out. My French friend said her husband had/has to have proof of him working nights and going into central Paris every evening. My Italian friend has been in for over four months and not one single outing. I’m not far off that but have had a couple of car rides and two blood tests! Her daughter and husband who live with her did the shopping. The article I posted above says people need time to get used to it so it’s a gradual thing for some to take time to put them on. I wish they’d just put them on and put them on properly. Will be interesting to see what is said this week with social distancing coming down to one metre (🤨) and you’d hope more masks would be worn due to that reduction. Just keep wearing yours. x