This might sound massively at odds with current "Shielding" advice, but it's getting to the point where I can't see a future outside the confines of my home for quite sometime, and it's getting to me after just 8 weeks!
I discussed the virus with my Rheumatologist this week and he reassured me that people with RA and on medication I'm on (Metho and Hydroxy) are not dying - they survive, as long as they have a healthy heart function. So, although I'm effectively shielding, the risk of death is normal. Does this make sense?
So, following this information, I'm now thinking it might be better to catch it now, build up some antibodies, and go through whatever the virus does, and start living again without fear.
When I was pre school age, my mum took me to kids Measles parties etc, - to get it over with! By the time I went to school I'd had everything going.
Has anybody else started to have these thoughts or is it just me who's being bonkers, because I'm going stir crazy?
Love to all
L
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Truthfully watch one of the a day in itu..... no it's not sensible!,this is an illness for which we have no immunity and it kills you. Worse than that your family cannot be with you ....as its deadly .
I certainly wouldn't "try" to catch it but I've made the personal choice to strictly social distance rather than shield and that's helped me to cope with it all. When I first got my letters I started feeling the anxiety build and I realised that I needed to strike a balance between protecting my physical health and my mental health. I'm on same meds as you, 60 and good health other than RA so I think that I was on the borderline for the shielding advice anyway.
Your consultant's comments are interesting - did he still say that you should be in the shielding group?
My consultant was very clear that, although the government are telling folk to shield, in his expert opinion (and he has won awards for research in the Rheumatology field) I am not at high risk, so it was entirely up to me watch I do with that information, as he can't official tell me to go against Government advice.
But it was very useful information from someone who knows his stuff.
I got a letter telling me I was at low risk and I take mtx, leflumomide and hdy. It said to just do what everyone is doing. I was pleased did not have to isolate as I have an older sister who is over 70 and I am doing her shopping. I am 60 this year
I have same views too strict social distance keeps me sane.
Thank you for everyone's responses.
I guess I'll ditch that idea, (although, I did notice a couple of likes so maybe I'm not alone in being bonkers).
As for actually how to catch covid, I guess volunteering in a school or hospital setting, without PPE, would increase the risk of infection, while doing something useful at the same time. But then I really wouldn't want to pass it onto anybody else.
I think I might have already had it, in early March, because I felt unwell for a couple of days - but just rested up as usual and recovered. Once we are able to test for antibodies, maybe a larger percentage of us have actually had it, without realising.
Given we don’t know how long immunity lasts, absolutely not. There have been otherwise healthy people who have been floored by Covid19, requiring intensive care. Not a gamble I’d ever suggest anyone takes.
It doesn't end when you get over the virus either as there will be long term after effects as well. xx
I know where your coming from BUT there is not enough evidence to suggest that you have immunity once you have had this virus or if you do for how long. We need much information
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Hi J1707,
Yes, that's the only bit of information which I wish was known - and there was talk of the virus mutating already, into something worse than China first had, so that too would be useful information to assess the risks vs benefits.
It's also a concern, now that lockdown becomes more relaxed, that hospital capacity has also been relaxed (ie the Nightingale standby wards). I think that decision was premature given the uncertainties.
L
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Yes your right moving far too fast too soon. Unfortunately money means more than life.
Itt t a an interesting subject I wouldn’t chance it but as you say maybe you’ve had it ,I also think I’ve had it as I wasn’t well for a couple off weeks and been left with breaththing problems but haven’t been tested so not sure xxx
Hi Crashdoll,
I agree that we have no information yet on immunity and antibodies, so no way of knowing how effective this strategy would be (or for how long). But, there's probably going to be some immunity, going on the results of previous viruses.
And I also agree that healthy people have died after catching it, and as yet they don't know why. So it is a bit of a lottery, but in some ways, not so much so as we also now know the vast majority of people who are at greatest risk - and that, apparently, doesn't include people who don't take steroids or have a healthy heart.
But, there's only a small percentage of people who are severely affected and only a small percentage of those who actually die (mostly already identified as high risk).
Therefore, on probabilities alone, the chances of me dying of the virus are extremely slim.
This is my current thinking.
Maybe it's something to do with me wanting to take back some kind of control of my life!
L
Definitely bonkers. As to your comment "I discussed the virus with my Rheumatologist this week and he reassured me that people with RA and on medication I'm on (Metho and Hydroxy) are not dying - they survive, as long as they have a healthy heart function. So, although I'm effectively shielding, the risk of death is normal. Does this make sense?"
Not to me it doesn't. Those with heart problems could probably die even if they didn't have RA or take MTX. Even if the virus didn't exist.
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Hi
I don't think that's what I meant - sorry, I tend to write before I think!
I totally agree that any heart condition isn't normal and carries with it risks.
What I was saying was that, myself with RA and on the meds I'm on, puts me at no higher risk that anybody who is healthy. But, if I did have heart problems, I would definitely be in a high risk category (with or without RA).
Well then I’m bonkers too! I suggested this to OH, and he practically locked me in the store cupboard...
I’m 63, in good health, no significant comorbidities, and only on MTX and a biologic. Now that hospitals have better capacity I reckon my chance of surviving even if I caught this is good. However, on mature reflection I’ve decided not to try to catch it! So I’m in Boxer-Lady’s group of being sensible but not shielding.
What also helps is that here there is no such thing as shielding, so I don’t have the stress of trying to make sense of the guidance. The French Rheumatologists’ Society statement says that although as yet there is no data on the reality of RA patients and Covid it is wise to presume a higher risk for those on steroids, biologics etc. So we should be careful, avoid unnecessary outings, don’t hug and kiss people, wash your hands a lot and check your temperature. We now also have to wear masks in places with lots of people. That’s it. So that's what I’m doing.
Thanks Helix, for joining me on the bonkers bench (or should that be in the cupboard)!
I too will not be trying this out but I do like to keep an open mind and to keep things in perspective.
I'm extremely surprised that the current UK/England advice doesn't mandate the use of face masks - it's as though they expect some spread to occur now, a "lets see what happens now" approach.
As for hugging and kissing, chance would be a fine thing! Although I realise it's very different in France.
The advice to check your temperature also seems sensible. Can’t understand why that wasn’t put in place at all international transport terminals right from the start.
Mask are to protects others just in case you have it, and even if non-surgical masks only give a small amount of protection since it’s so easy to do.....
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I agree some of us might be bonkers but we could not get shopping to our home so once a week we had to leave the house to do so. 8 weeks in and being strict with social contact etc and so far so good. However we do wear masks and change clothes etc when back home. So I am same as you both too. However I am not trying to get it!
I think it would be a terrible dis-service to anyone in the NHS who is exhausted from caring for CV-19 patients, or those who have cared for people and have lost their lives to it.
If you landed up in hospital and a nurse or doctor asked you "how do you think you caught it?" Can you imagine what they would think if you said, "oh, I went and intentionally caught it."
Too right happytulip. My sister has worn herself out working extra shifts nursing covid patients. Her partner who runs a palliative care home was very ill in hospital with it and I’ve had pneumonia which has left me very short of breath and still coughing nine weeks on. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and to suggest catching it on purpose is an insult to the nhs and every key worker out there 🌸
When you've seen how fragile life can be and I have from my own personal and working experience, it's not something I would ever consider risking my future health or life because at this moment in time things are difficult and having to stay in is getting you down. As already said in other replies the strain you would be placing upon the NHS and those who care for covid and other sick patients. These workers are already exhausted physically and mentally, let alone suffering trauma by what they have had to cope with. Can you imagine how they would feel knowing that you went out and contracted this virus of your own choice. Besides this is still an unknown virus which as I understand it is still unknown as to weather those who have sadly had it have acquired any natural immunity to it in the long term, so why would you want to potentially put yourself through this with no guarantee of 1/ Any further long term health effects 2/ The potential of death 3/ The potential of passing it on to someone else once you have got it 4/ With no guarantee that by getting it you will have any natural or long term immunity from it. I understand your frustrations of being confined at home, I know because I am in my 8th week of shielding and being on my own while grieving, no support and trying to spin so many plates in my life right now. Life aint great but I'm doing the best I can to turn it around and quite frankly I have so much to look forward to in the future, so try not to see the 'big picture' just take little steps each day, we only get one shot at life and yes it doesn't always deal us the cards we would hope and wish for but make the most of the hand you have been dealt. I'm sorry but I just feel life is too precious. Please don't mess with it. If you are struggling with things perhaps seeking some advice or support may be a more productive/ positive way forward. Take care and sending you some kind wishes.
I'm a bit shocked to read that your mum took you to measles parties for you to catch it. Anyone reading this please don't follow suit thinking it's a good idea. I had measles when I was six, my mum noticed the spots one evening when I was getting ready for bed. Next morning she couldn't wake me, I was in a coma, I'd got encephalitis, inflammation of the brain. I was taken to an isolation hospital and was in a coma for two weeks. I am extremely lucky to have survived with no damage done.
When I read about Roald Dahl daughter it really made me think....that could of been me.
Sadly as I recall it was quite common to attend 'Pox parties' which sadly to say people thought that this was a good thing to do but sadly people did not realise the severity of these illnesses and the complications it could bring. Sadly to say I worked with some children who suffered severe life long effects of measles, chicken pox and had sustained both physical and learning needs as a result. So glad to hear you got through what must have felt very scary times. Take care x
If you did catch it and if you are lucky enough to have no/mild symptoms I suppose you will then go out and about spreading the virus and giving it to others who may die as a result. Would you want that on your conscience?
I absolutely get where you’re coming from. To live indoors for the rest of my life is not to live and would be miserable and entirely pointless.
And that’s potentially where we’re at. Particularly if there is no vaccine.
I was listening to the doc on BBC 1 yesterday morning. He said everyone will probably catch this and that made me think. A friend who’s a doc said something similar.
Do we really want to just exist for the next however many years with just the TV for company? Not me. I have so many things I want to do. And how will we feel mentally if it’s years stretching ahead with no company, no seeing anyone, no going anywhere?
I’m going to drive to the coast tomorrow morning really early to overstrand. A friend is going to be there too as that’s where she lives. I won’t be getting out of the car, but it will be lovely to see my friend and the sea.
Your idea may not be as mad as it sounds. Although I’m not testing it out just yet!
I think you have summed up my thinking much better than me - thank you, and I'm glad I'm not alone with these thoughts - and they are just thoughts.
Agreed, there's not yet enough information to go on but, if you take a step back and look at the long term, who knows if it will get better or worse? When I heard about the likelihood of a second wave this winter, our situation could get worse.
And there's no way I'd wish to be a burden on the NHS, as some have pointed out could be the case, or wish to spread it to anybody else. Nobody would.
And I'm not feeling down, just fidgety and trying to work out what the facts really are.
If the virus does start to mutate and become stronger, as in the Spanish Flu, it is realistic to think that we could be locked up for years, and it's precisely because I love life and have so much I want to do, that this thought cropped up in my head. It's just a thought, a mulling over. No harm in thinking.
The life of Anne Frank comes to mind (but obviously we have freedoms and comforts she didn't).
Apparently, there was never any vaccine developed for the Spanish Flu, HIV, SARS, bird flu or COVID - so it could, very realistically, take years (as the chap on the BBC was saying) - so it could be that it will just take its course.
The best option for me right now is to follow your lead and get out more, keeping a safe distance. I hope you have a successful day at the seaside with your friend. It sounds like a great idea.
I think the people that say outright no, possibly have a husband/wife/family sharing their home. That will always make a difference. Staring at the four walls alone is quite different.
Of course, I don’t want to die. The thought terrifies me. But the thought of isolation for potentially the next 30 plus years terrifies me more. Can you imagine daytime tv for the next 30 years 🤣
I read Terry Waites autobiography about being held in the dark for five years. Going in to his head every day and imagining things he could be doing trying to keep sane. No idea how he did it. I realise this isn’t the same at all. No gun pointing at my head, but long term, there will be similarities as our homes become a prison and not a place of safety.
No disrespect Cwendyn but I have for the last 8 weeks been shielding alone and have no partner sharing my home, so that isn't necessarily correct and yes I am staring at four walls but I think a sense of perspective is needed. I understand from your other reply you saying that you are going to drive to the coast and meet a friend etc. and that to me sounds ok because you have obviously thought about precautions and the potential risks and again sounds like you are going to take precautions by meeting early and not getting out of the car. To me that is not only within the measures that are currently in place, but by what you are telling us in your post you ensuring you are taking measures as not to catch the virus. I think there is a difference in respect of going out and taking sensible precautions and trying your best not to contract this virus, as opposed to choosing to go out with intention to or circulating within places where the opportunity of catching the virus is heightened. I don't fancy the idea of being confined to four walls for an indefinite period of time, I'm sure most of us wouldn't want this, but I don't fancy the alternative either. I completely understand your frustrations and no I don't think we will be holed up in our homes sat watching TV for the next 30 years, but what I do see is at the moment we are all trying in our own way to get to grips with a virus we can't see, we still have little information about and no effective treatment or cure. So for the moment all I think we can do is try and keep a sense of perspective. I understand your thinking in respect of how isolation may affect people if having to remain in our homes for months and there is a potential to imagine and think things when you have time on your hands so to speak, but we are not Terry Waite, We have so many things around us and we have things like the Internet, Face time, telephones etc. We can order things in on line etc. and yes I get that is not the same as going out, doing things having plans and aspirations for the future. I hear your frustrations but my point is going out to meet a friend at the coast in the early hours and staying in your car is not the same as someone who is thinking about or chooses to go out into the community to acquire the virus. As someone on the TV commented the other day like other viruses and AIDS we have yet to find a cure for some of these viruses and as time has gone on we have had to learn to live with them in our communities, but while there is a global pandemic going on and cases/ deaths are still quite high, I think adhere to the measures which say you can go out in England, (but not in Scotland, Wales, NI) don't over think things, keep a sense of perspective, take sensible precautions and be patient. It will pass and if people truly are struggling please get support, help or speak to someone. Life is all too precious and yes we will have time, we just need to give a little time. I hope you enjoy seeing your friend and being on the coast, Take care and keep safe x
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I understand about feeling depressed by the current situation. The prospect of a year of our lives being effectively blanked out is horrible, especially for those of us who wouldn't expect to have decades of active life ahead of us anyway. However, I don't think we should assume a vaccine won't be found. A number of scientists, including Sir Paul Nurse, feel confident that there will be one. Far more research is being done with far more urgency than was the case for the other illnesses you mentioned. Also, we shouldn't forget the other research being done into finding an effective treatment. That's pretty important too, and would ease the situation no end even without a vaccine.
In the meantime, I think we should give ourselves permission to feel down sometimes and not see it as weakness. I know you said you don't feel down, but your thoughts about deliberately catching the virus and the possibilities of the situation getting worse seem to show otherwise. I don't think you're at all bonkers. Probably more people have those thoughts than would ever admit to them. What can we do except spit on our hands and take fresh hold?
I understand your thoughts. We all have strange thoughts. we just mustn’t act on them. Actually, good luck finding it in the first place. The spread is mostly in hospitals and care homes. Those in the community that have it are tucked up in bed. We’re all fed up. We’ve turned the corner. Just a bit more patience...
Viral load has a lot to do with the intensity of symptoms. It hits the lungs and it hits the kidneys. You have at least a 20% chance of ending up in ICU. Why would you do this to yourself? You would also there for along the road, carry it to other people. Sounds like what you want to do is self isolate rather than shield. Consider doing all of the precautions hand washing ,face mask, physical distancing, cleaning surfaces, and the like. There are some people who get mild cases of covid-19. There are many that don't. The evidence around organ damage is disturbing. Death due to complications, eg pneumonia, clots, kidneys, is a very high risk to take.
I don't think anybody with any sense(sorry if this upsets you.) would go out and deliberately catch this virus when you see those poor people in hospital being unable to breathe. I have pneumonia and i know if i catch this virus and end up in hospital i won't be coming out alive as i am not strong enough to withstand the virus.xx
If Covid-19 were a known entity like Chicken-pox etc... then I would agreed with you. However, Covid is an unknown and seemingly random virus. Watch some of the video's of fit and healthy people who have survived but been so extremely ill, then ask yourself a) would I really survive, b) do I want to go through that c) is it better to suffer a few more weeks of isolation or play Russian roulette with my life?
Just my thoughts of course, and yes I have wondered, but my analytical mind along with the notion that I'd be causing un-necessary stress to many possibly including the NHS., prevails.
No one knows yet if get immunity once you’ve had it and if you do ... if it is permanent.
I’m staying shielding... asthma puts me in the shielding group on its own. Apart from anything else togging up to go outside yesterday was enough to put me off going out just now... what a fright I looked too 🤣 and face mask is not a lot of fun let alone when you’re asthmatic 🤪
I’ve had Rhumatoid arthritis for 22 years now.for many years I felt like a guinea pig trying every drug under the sun to get one to work and after years I got into Humira this was a wonder drug for me.i was able to go training,swimming basically get on with life.Then one day I wasn’t feeling great breathing wasn’t right but thought it would pass by that evening I had to take myself to A.E I spent 9 days in isolation plugged into nebuliser and pumping oxygen into me.And all sorts of drugs.I couldn’t walk 2 steps with out oxygenTurned out to be severe phunumia.it took me 6 weeks for breathing and energy to return to normal I’ve been taken off Humira and I back to square one trying to find a drug that works.
But I do feel I have an idea what copid 19 patience are going threw.
So be very thankful you are free to roam around your house and get some fresh air.
Many thanks for your response - not a life I would wish on anyone, but it sounds like you are a true survivor having been through all that. I do wish that more research on RA could be done as there's just so many unknowns about this disease even after all these years. Let's hope you find one which works for you soon.
I am extremely grateful for my home and the fact that Methotrexate (my wonder drug) worked for me almost immediately. I know how lucky I am when I read about others' experiences, like yours. Also, those days when I couldn't even stand up are still in my head, as a reminder to be grateful.
I'm with Boxerlady and helixhelix... I don't think I would dare go out and intentionally try to catch it. There are just too many unknowns, not to mention the fact that I certainly don't want to risk adding myself to the list of challenges the NHS are already having to cope with...
That said... for my own sanity, I have had to tell myself that if I was unlucky enough to catch it, the chances are that I would *probably* be OK and therefore not to become overly paranoid about it.
Initially I was pretty much giving myself a panic attack every time a letter or delivery arrived at my door and obsessing about every little thing. Now, I'm still being very careful (I live alone and "shielding" or something very close to it, isn't really that difficult) but I do still go out for the occasional walk or even nip to the corner shop if I really need to (still strictly socially distancing of course, as indeed, everyone is still supposed to be doing).
But perhaps most importantly of all, having resigned myself to the fact that there's a chance that any/all of us may come across the damn thing at some stage (no matter how hard we try otherwise)... and that I'll just have to deal with that if/when it happens... I feel a whole lot less stressed generally... and we all know how important that can be in managing our well being overall
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I totally can understand where you are coming from.
Like you, at first this thing threw me into a panic, as there was a real possibility of death, but having more information now, especially from the expert who knows my condition and history, I'm much more relaxed and optimistic about surviving - but only if it doesn't mutate!
I've relaxed my shielding a bit too and walked to the corner shop this week. It felt so lovely.
I guess it'll be natural to go through various emotional stages, which is probably why the government have behavioural scientists advising them.
We have gorgeous sunshine here this morning, so another walkabout will also boost the old vitamin D.
PS. For what it's worth, I'm also on MTX only and my rheumy also considered that there was no reason I needed to be in the shielding category, despite my GP deciding otherwise
I understand what you mean. I think. It's hard to live your life being scared and you want to pull the plaster off.
Personally I am taking the view that although I am not going out of my way to catch it, I cant stop it either. My husband is back at work, back going to the paper shop every morning etc. We can't distance in our small house. I'm going back to work in June.
I'm on mtx and jak with no heart problems, lung issues. I know if I get it it may very well be bad. But to be honest it feels out of my control. And yes, part of me does just want to get it over with.
Thanks for responding - I like your thinking and approach, especially as your other half is out n about.
Like you, I'm looking forward to going back to work too. I feel my brain might be using half the cells it's used to (if not less!). I've even considered enrolling onto an OU course, as a bit of a challenge.
Good luck with your return in June, I'm sure you'll be fine.
I don’t know what planet you are on quite frankly, you can’t be serious, I had to re read this I can’t believe what you are saying
I’ve been shielding for 8 weeks too, no walks nothing! And while I agree it’s difficult, I’m trying to keep myself safe, as it’s paramount to my health, I wouldn’t dream of going against any advice, so no it makes no sense to me at all,
Why not buy a gun and a few bullets and play Russian Roulette as effectively your doing just that plus if your incubating it and go out how many more people will you infect and all the medical staff who will care for you. As exhausted as they are do they need patients who have deliberately caught the virus. In any event all viruses mutate it's why we have a different formula flu jab each year.
I sort of understand as I have kidney failure and it does feel as though a sword is balancing over my head but I do have control as am extremely vulnerable vulnerable so I take control by staying safe.
I can understand why you feel like this though.It's all starting to get to me big time as there are so many unknowns especially how long this is going to last.I had a bad spell at the beginning of the week when I couldnt contemplate having to put my life on hold indefinitely.I know Im more fortunate than a lot of others, and I shouldnt complain. Its unbelievable how quickly our lives were turned upside down and everything we enjoyed-and took for granted-disappeared virtually overnight.At first I was quite upbeat, thinking I had my Italian holiday to look forward to in August, but as time goes on and i realise it isnt going to happen.....
We must try to stay strong and positive.At least no holiday means I can have lots of flowering plants this year-no need to worry about getting a friend to water them!
Although I'm shielding I did go for a walk yesterday.Hardly anyone about so I felt comfortable.My fave coffee shop was doing takeaways and their safety measures were excellent!No one else in there so I chanced it.My first latte for over 8 weeks.Wonderful!
I understand your 'theory'....I really do. But sometimes, we are looking for anything that might give us some insight, into our suffering. There is no problem doing this. We just have to equate all the information available. Dawn (Australia).
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