Bacterial cause for RA?

Hello everyone.

My daughter sent me this link to research suggesting a bacterium found in milk and beef could be responsible for people with a genetic predisposition developing RA:

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

I wondered if anyone has gone dairy free/vegan and noticed a difference?

Pat

xxx

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My mom has been a vegan/vegetarian for over 20 years. It made no difference in her disease progression (it kept marching on).

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There's been quite a lot in last couple of years about links between infections/gut health/genetics and RA. But like this paper it's not clear cut. 40 percent of 78 percent - so that's only 3 out of 10 people with RA who have this bacteria. Doesn't explain the rest of us.

But it might give a clue as to why a few people seem to respond well to changing diet. For myself I tried and it did nothing for the RA (I lost weight and felt healthier, but RA was exactly the same!)

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Probably the majority on the paddison program.. it is a vegan diet.

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I tried vegan for six months and it made me worse. I have a problem with grains, some nuts and seeds, so not a great diet for me. Made no difference to the arthritis.

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I sometimes wonder if unpasteurised milk made me ill . Before I became ill I was getting milk from a dairy who sold raw milk. My milkman then changed suppliers and on two occasions I recall the container being grubby on the outside as if it had been dropped which gave me cause for some concern . I trusted that the initial dairy were scrupulous in their hygiene and they were also very high welfare ( the milk was delicious too ) but was not happy with the replacement 'and' I did become ill . I responded really well to antibiotics too ( until I got a reaction from them ) . Personally, I wonder if there are a multitude of causes for this 'disease' . I have ' inflammatory arthritis ' not that anyone has ever bothered to even tell me that. I read it on the paperwork. But apart from describing it what does that even mean ? It just seems like an umbrella term. But to return to the point I do think there is a bacterial aspect to many autoimmune diseases . My mother developed rheumatic fever after having a strep throat.

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Agree that inflammatory arthritis is an umbrella term, and apparently some 200 or so different diseases under that heading (haven't checked). So makes sense that many different triggers/variations and so on.

But rheumatic fever is something different, and strep throat is a trigger for it. Luckily increasingly rare these days.

A nearby shop now sells high welfare unpasteurised milk, and it is rather tasty. But I do limit myself to very small amounts as so high fat.....

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Ah agree it tastes so good. The original supplier has jersey cows. She only milks them once a day and she lets them keep their calves . I was so drawn to the whole idea as it was more humane than traditional dairy farming. Also it was the only milk my cat would drink. He loved it. I am too frightened to try unpasteurised milk now just in case it was a factor. I mentioned the rheumatic fever and step throat because it is considered to be autoimmune.

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Yes "inflammatory arthritis" is an umbrella term for many different diseases. Since a lot of these different inflammatory arthritis diseases overlap and mimic each other, it only makes it harder to find a cure. It also makes it harder to control the disease. No wonder a cure seems to elude the scientific community .

A bacteria or viral infection can cause "inflammatory arthritis", but not necessarily RA. It hasn't been proven yet. I think an article labeling a "possible link " between a certain type of bacteria & RA is wrong. It gives some people false hope and causes some people to follow a diet or "cure" that just hasn't been proven yet. It also causes a lot of arguing among the people suffering with RA and those suffering from an arthritis that mimics RA.

My "inflammatory arthritis" mimicked RA and thus being labeled "RA" caused me an extra year of suffering. The RA meds I was on never controlled my disease because I never had RA in the first place.

Just my thoughts, Take care & have a pain free day.

Sue

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That's interesting. I don't have RA either according to two blood tests but I do have weirdness and slight 'deformity ' in my middle finger and big toe. They both want to lean over quite a bit if that makes sense. Interesting that you made the distinction between RA and other inflammatory types of arthritis, I think this is an important distinction . For example I do suffer excruciating pain if someone knocks into my affected joints but otherwise I have no pain as such and my understanding is that RA sufferers suffer so much with pain. I remember my rheumy looking shocked when He asked what pain killers I took and I said "none". It's good to hear everyone's story. Really illuminating.

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HI IVE been a dairy free veggy most of my life about 50yrs (Im now 70) I was diagnose about 4 - 5 yrs ago with RA !!

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It’s my belief that those of us with a predisposition genetically to RA, just need a perfect storm to trigger it into action, whatever that may be. For me it was the stress of my daughter’s wedding, not getting enough rest, and believe it or not, I dropped a door on my foot. The whole nightmare began for me the following week when the other, uninsured foot began to hurt as well. Pretty soon it was my ankles and my knees followed and led me to my GP who referred me to the rheumatologist. I think the triggers are different for everyone and that’s why they can’t nail it down to being caused by this or that. Just mho.

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Thanks for posting, really interesting. Wasn't there some earlier research about bacterial connection, Dr Brown? It seems to have so many aspects to it: genetic predisposition, more women affected than men and so many people who get it after virus/illness too.

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Agree. So many possible triggers/ causes.

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Hi

I agree with dbestdeb. For some of us it's the trigger that's needed to switch the RA on.

I have 4 other cousins on my mother's side who have various forms of RA - thus it seems pretty obvious that it's thanks to my genes that I have RA. And when did this happen? Well when 2 major stressful events occurred that I had no control over.

I'm a food scientist and I have to say for me it's about eating a good balanced diet and taking supplements if needed. For example, I need to take vitamin D - just can't get enough from my diet.

If you decide to leave food groups out of your diet then make sure you replace the missing vitamin and minerals. Otherwise you are going to create other problems for yourself.

Joy

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Not really! I'm lacto free since before RA in 1995 and also eat very little red meat. I think it makes a difference now to my RA but I am not eating too much meet though I don't think it was my cause of RA. Believe my cause to be an op the year before diagnosis and horrendous work stress.

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Agree. I think stress also played a part for me as I was suffering a trauma at the time. You just can never be sure looking back but I think I had something rumbling away and the stress made it so much worse.

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My son no RA but he's young, got hospitalised after drinking raw milk on a Quaker farm, public health closed the place down the herd was Bruciollis free but its actually illegal I thought to give to childrn in the UK as they can get really ill if the milk is not kept and the right temperature etc. He was very unlucky but so ill, 9 years old and on a drip in for 2 weeks and very poorly. The local Authority got into awful trouble as he was one of about 12 kids that became ill. I think RA is latent until triggered in my case a related condition appears to be triggered my Measles in my 20's. I just wish proper studies would be undertaken as it would not affct most of us but could protect our children and grandchildren.

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Agree. There is much to learn. Personally i am not convinced my body is attacking itself. I don't think it's that stupid. No proof just my gut feeling. I think that it is over reacting though .

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My body is definately attacking itself as I have five auto immune conditions at the moment and the hospital is looking at my whole immune sysytem. Bloods gone to London for specialist opinoun.

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Oh , I am sorry to hear that. I hope the specialist can recommend a helpful course of action. X

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Interesting article. As of Jan 30, 2018 they have just discovered a "possible link" Lets hope the University of Central Florida continues their research on this possible link. It's good to know scientists are searching for a cure.

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I don't have Ra but I have PsA. I reckon mine was triggered with a shed load of grief and stress! However, I think I've certainly had skin and joint issues since my teens...though not so bad.

I also developed IBS same time as the inflammation really kicked off. Four years previously I developed graves disease. This went into remission and the PsA popped up big time. I'm half wondering if I'm going to grow a second head and a tail!

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