point of information - another source of info re wheat and other grains, dairy, lectins etc and AI diseases,: for those who aren't into alternative meds and/or prefer what is widely known as 'the medical model' , you may like to look at WDDTY which can be viewed online for free. my only gripe is that few talk of using xtra virgin olive oil as a dressing NOT cooking with it, as heat changes it chemically... similar argument applies to tinfoil etc. best to all xx
To continue the AI diet etc debate: point of... - NRAS
To continue the AI diet etc debate
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GranAmie
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52 Replies
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Hi GranAmie
I used to believe that virgin olive oil became carcinogenic when heated to high temps but recently discovered this is a myth.
True on aluminium/baking foil though, should not wrap food inside it. Okay as a cover though, just not touching food, or so I read!
GranAmie in reply to
I can't accept that -I really think we shd start citing sources on this - don't want to promote aggro.. but all i've reported came from a academic conference at QUB
in reply to GranAmie
Well here’s a link to the myth about virgin olive oil (simba posted a very useful and informative link too but it does not specifically say which oils are safe for frying/high heat cooking unless I missed it as I skimmed through):
healthline.com/nutrition/is...
Simba1992 in reply to
You may have missed it. The only oil that stays good is coconut oil. There are brands without the strong smell. The only fat I use and it really has a lot of benefits. I do use a little olive oil since we get it from our own olives😊
in reply to Simba1992
I use loads of coconut oil. Amazing stuff!
It is also an ingredient in my home made deodorant.
And wonderful to have your own olives! Takes an awful lot to get oil. 
Simba1992 in reply to
It really is quite a job, but nice to have your own oil😊I use coconut oil in my coffee too to make bullet proof!
in reply to Simba1992
We had a tree farm and honeybees in WV, great to have raw, organic honey.
I have to buy it now, in the UK.
Been using that along with ginger, cinnamon etc to fight the cold virus.
I don’t fancy coconut oil in hot coffee etc but maybe it’s an acquired taste!
I just eat it straight in addition to cooking eg Thai curries. Yum!
Simba1992 in reply to
Love honey. We get it straight from the farmers. Was very keen on the lavender honey until learned that lavender is estrogenic and something to keep away from if you have chronic inflammation. So now I am using chessnut honey, even better actually.😊
in reply to Simba1992
Never had that: wildflower, black locust, clover etc were available in WV.
Here, local tends to be honey or wildflower.
We can get Manuka too, best at 25 grade or over. Not tried it myself as great for open wounds.
Amazing what great nutrition is around us if we look and know where to look!
Simba1992 in reply to
We have the wild flower but also rosmary and some other hebal kinds. At one point was very interested in Manuka and took it for some time ( the strong one25+) daily. Stopped since so expensive! Maybe give it a try again since so many healing properties...
in reply to Simba1992
Canabidiol has many healing properties too, not just for pain; on my wish list to buy!
Never tried herby honey, would be good for cooking eg lamb with rosemary...
Simba1992 in reply to
Unfortunately Canola oil ( did you mean that?)is a PUFA and should not be used. I think there was something about it in the link I posted.
Sorry
Sorry, now I know what you meant. The hempoil with cannabis qualities!? I tried it and it didn't do much for me. Many swear by it though😊
in reply to Simba1992
Needs to be properly controlled and tested, ensure it is the real stuff; comes in varying strengths here.
Supposed to be legal in US too but someone in NJ cannot get it as you have to be practically dead before you are eligible.
in reply to Simba1992
No, absolutely not canola ie rapeseed oil in UK.
Canabidiol is a substance from cannabis sativa. Gives benefits without highs.
Glad someone else knows not to cook with Virgin Olive Oil.
Nobody believes me when I tell them that temperature changes things chemically........& not for the better!
I dint know this?! Thank you
in reply to Eiram50
Please see Simba’s link too!
Link I am pasting is to temps and oils:
healthline.com/nutrition/is...
Eiram50 in reply to
Thank you
I didn't know you shouldn't cook with olive oil. Why exactly please?
I don't know EXACTLY why but I have read warnings for years that heating Extra Virgin Olive Oil above a certain temperature causes chemical changes that are not healthy.
It's apparently OK to cook with non virgin oil if you must.I find most things you would sauté in oil ..like chicken or fish....come out just as tasty if you steam them with herbs & lemon juice!
But it's really down to personal taste isn't it?
thanks both, am aware of those , but prefer to cook with ghee and use xtra-v oil cold as a dressing; tinfoil ok for wrapping as long as not heated...
BTW didn't healthline takeover / buy out Authority Nutrtition>
I'm confused. Some of the above links say it's fine to cook with olive oil.
I'm afraid they are really not based on scientific facts Having read a lot of articles written by biochemists and analysis of oils I tend to take the same standpoit.
An interesting angle is the purity of olive oil that we buy!? Evidently the bottles contain many other not so healthy ingredients (?). Interesting discussion on this thread.
sorry - it IS confusing - we were warned to only use E.V. oil as a dressing and to use ghee [clarified butter] for cooking tho' better as AC said to steam as far as possible. i feel so much better nowadays 6months on, bloods down re ESR / CCCP and just back to wrists, fingers and ankles. :] btw i can use ghee whereas butter is a nono 4me. x
also the container which is why i only buy 'stuff' in glass bottles nowadays..x
trying to find my notes - in 'senior heaven' [somewhere safe] but have found notes from intelegen.com re lectins /RA; Sorry it's so long tho'; wrists/fingrs v tired. certainly put me off legumes and pulses and soy.
Lectins, not to be confused with the endocrine hormone leptin, are types of proteins commonly found in nature in foods such as fruits, vegetables, and seafood, but especially grains, beans and seeds. They are present in about 30 percent of the American diet and are not degraded by stomach acid or proteolytic enzymes, making them virtually resistant to digestion. Microbes carry lectins and use them for attachment to the host cells. The human body contains lectins: 1) On the vascular endothelial linings (selectins) in order for blood cells to escape into the tissues; 2) In the liver to capture microorganisms, and 3) As opsonins, substances that coat foreign antigens, making them more susceptible to phagocytosis (the process where immune cells digest and destroy foreign invaders) by the white blood cells. C-reactive protein (CRP) and mannose-binding protein (MBP) are two examples of opsonins.
The word "lectin" comes from the Latin phrase, "I choose," a befitting word choice since lectins are very specific as to what they will bind to. Lectins are also called agglutinins because in their binding to many cell surfaces they cause agglutination (cell clumping) reactions. Ricin, for example, from castor beans is such a potent lectin that just a minute amount is capable of causing death due to massive clotting of red blood cells from agglutination. Ricin even has been used as a murder weapon in espionage.
A lectin serves the plant as a type of primitive protection system analogous to an antibody but in a non-immune model. Likewise, human lectins in our bodies also act protectively but as part of an immune system. Known for a century, lectins form a diverse group of molecules of varying molecular weights and shapes and contain multiple binding sites. The only thing lectins have in common with each other is their ability to bind to sugars. Lectins bind to the terminal sugar, the "glyco," portion of glycoconjugates found on cell membranes. If the sugars are bound to proteins they are called glycoproteins or bound to fats they are called glycolipids. Collectively they are called glycoconjugates of which 11 percent of the human body is composed.
The important point is that some of the lectins consumed in everyday foods act as chemical messengers that can in fact bind to the sugars of cells in the gut and the blood cells, initiating an inflammatory response. In wheat, gliadin, a component of gluten and an iso-lectin of wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), is capable of activating NF kappa beta proteins which, when up-regulated, are involved in almost every acute and chronic inflammatory disorder including neurodegenerative disease, inflammatory bowel disease, infectious and autoimmune diseases.1 WGA needs more recognition as an important dietary problem. Scientific literature shows that dietary lectins can dramatically reduce natural killer (NK) cell activity directly and through disruption of intestinal flora. Natural killer cells are one of the body's most important defenses against viruses and other invaders.
Most dietary lectins will also stimulate polyamine production in the gut. Polyamines are important growth factors that may have negative effects if levels become imbalanced. Excess polyamine production initiated by lectins may be the result of an effort to repair the damage to intestinal microvilli caused by lectins. In addition, a high polyamine level may also decrease NK cell populations2, can contribute to halitosis (bad breath), and is considered an important biological marker for colonic precancer. 3-6 A number of animal studies have shown that an increase in polyamines caused by a high lectin diet resulted in increases in the size of the intestines, liver, and pancreas.7
Lectins, Food Allergies and Intestinal Concerns
There is an abundance of literature from the most prestigious journals that lectins such as WGA initiate allergic reactions in the gut causing the release of IL-4, IL-13, and histamine from human basophils producing noticeable allergic symptoms.8-9 WGA has also shown to interfere with protein digestion and increase gut permeability.10-11 Peanut lectin, kidney bean and soybean lectins are other examples of lectins that have influences on bodily tissues. On the bright side, the lectins in broad beans (VFA), jackfruit (JAC), and culinary mushrooms (agraricus bisphorus) have been shown to slow the progression of colon cancer.12-13
Lucretius said, "One man's food is another man's poison" and lectins give us part of the reason why. It is our individual genetic inheritances that determine how and to what degree lectins can affect us. Almost everybody has antibodies to some dietary lectins in their bloodstream. Many food allergies are actually immune system reactions to lectins.14
The trend toward consumption of less processed grain foods, although more nutritious in many respects, results in consumption of more lectins. After ingestion, most dietary lectins bind to the absorptive microvilli of the small intestine (the microvilli are the tiny finger-like projections on the epithelial cells). From there lectins may gain access into the blood and lymph system through a process called endocytosis which carries the intact lectin across the microvilli membranes as a vesicle.15 Then, the lectins may enter the liver, pancreas and systemic circulation. It is estimated that about 5 percent of ingested lectins enter the body systemically, where, depending on the lectin and depending on the person's unique glycoconjugates, lectin binding occurs on other tissues such as nervous and connective tissue and the bladder, which are very sensitive to the agglutinating effects of lectins. It is a clinical observation that the complete avoidance of wheat lectins will help ameliorate the symptoms of interstitial cystitis. The reactions of lectins in the gut are more potent since the gut is more heavily glycosylated (more sugar receptors). As intestinal cells age they become less glycosylated due to the loss of glycoconjugates. The intestinal lining of people with Crohn's disease and IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) appear to be more sensitive to the effects of food lectins because the lining is constantly being replaced by new tissue that is made up of immature cells that are more glycosylated and thus more susceptible to lectin attachment. It becomes a vicious cycle. Blood group antigens as glycoconjugates are found on the surface of cells lining the digestive tract in addition to the blood cells and are frequently the target of specific lectins resulting in agglutination reactions. The same reactions in vitro are conducted daily in the clinical lab blood bank as "blood typing."
Lectins have many other applications in the clinical laboratory from identification of microorganisms to cancer research where lectins serve as probes to investigate the working of the cell through its surface biology. Lectins have been used as carriers for the delivery of chemotherapeutic agents. Mitosis (cell division) can be enhanced with lectins such as pokeweed lectin (PWA).
Lectins and Rheumatoid Arthritis
The fact that lectins appear to aggravate existing inflammatory conditions can be seen in the example of rheumatoid arthritis.16-18 The RA antibody is different structurally from a normal antibody in that the side-chain sugar, galactose, is replaced with N-acetyl glucosamine, the sugar for which the wheat germ lectin (WGA) is highly specific. This may point to why patients with rheumatoid arthritis feel better on a wheat-free diet. The defective RA antibody has also been shown to be reactive with the lectin found in the common lentil bean. According to the eminent immunologist David Freed, "Of the various rheumatogenic foods, wheat and other grains top the list. Avoidance of these is frequently the only dietary maneuver required, especially in early cases." He proposed that ingested wheat lectin (and other dietary lectins) enter the bloodstream from the intestine and bind strongly to connective tissues (which contain considerable quantities of glycoprotein) and skin proteoglycans making them stiff.19 It is a clinical observation that inflammation of the gut is associated with inflammation of the joints. It has been also observed that the pain and inflammation of fibromyalgia may stem from or be contributed to by intolerance to wheat lectins. In fact, lectins are capable of intensifying the effects of autoimmune disorders in general. Nightshade vegetables like potatoes and tomatoes are very high in lectins and are known to trigger the symptoms of arthritis.
Thank you for interesting reading. Here some more that may be of interest.
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Supplemental views on lectins, GranAmie & Simba1992:
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John Robbins (bottom of page healthunlocked.com/nras/pos.... under name 'Susan Peirce Thompson') discusses lectins & mentions Steven Gundry's work at approx. minute 59:00 in video: thriving.foodrevolution.org...
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Think it may shed additional light/ perspective on concerns about lectins? 🤔
• Lectins destroyed by cooking.
• Pressure cooking also destroys lectins.
• Also soaking beans/ legumes (before cooking) destroys lectins.
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Additionally, another (plant-based) perspective on lectins from Dr. Michael Klaper, who likewise notes lectins are destroyed by cooking & are therefore a non-issue in that respect. Yet, yet, yet . . . other things in cooked legumes can be an issue therefore, legumes must be 'respected' if we are reacting to them: paddisonprogram.com/communi... (Truly fascinating stuff! 😯 )
Thank you kindly for raising these topics, GranAmie/ Simba1992! 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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Bit more on Lectins GranAmie/ Simba1992: paddisonprogram.com/communi... (4-minute video)
Again, kindly bear in mind ( 🐻 in 🤔 ) it's from a plant-based physician's (Dr. Michael Klaper) perspective so it may philosophically clash with whichever approaches/ philosophy one may consider 'valid'. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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Ran across this, GranAmie & Simba1992, which might be of supplemental interest concerning lectins. 🤔
Dr. Michael Greger’s analysis of studies also ‘calls into question’ lectins: ‘Dr. Gundry’s “The Plant Paradox” is Wrong’ ( nutritionfacts.org/video/dr... ): m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NT4q...
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thanks Kai - interesting stuff, though I do find it difficult to accept information which is tied in with 'sign up here' and 'buy my life changing products'....
Right now am finding it difficult to accept what the rheumatology nurse is telling me : that my inflammation levels have risen, that I am heading for a coronary with high lipids, etc etc. She reacted strongly against my 'diet' and reducing the sulfasalazine because of side effects, so i begin to wonder is she blinkered by the 'medical model'.
i have never had hi b.p nor hi cholesterol and am not overweight [apart from a seasonal kilo] so ....
good wishes for 2018 xx
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Agreed. Smacks of drumming up a ‘faux problem’ (Lectins) to sell a ‘faux solution’ (Lectin ‘Sheild’). . . 😧
Is the Rheum. Nurse 👩⚕️ looking at recent blood 💉 tests results? 🤔
Are the inflammatory markers (CRP, ESR) trending upward? 📈 🤔
If you’re following plant-based, ‘typically’ CRP, ESR, cholesterol, blood pressure, weight, etc. all trend downward .📉 (Not aware of any plant-basers trending upwards. 😳 😯 )
[And, our rheums. 👩⚕️ only lower meds when it’s safe to do so. That is, ONLY when inflammation, pain, etc. is consistently low for a sustained period of time is med-lowering ever considered.]
Hope it all settles well for you, GranAmie. 🙏 😌
Hope there’s no rise in inflammation 🚫 🔥🌡 & no possibility of coronary 🚫 💔 . . .
Fingers 🤞, toes 👣 , & eyes 👀 crossed. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
Wishing you a joyous New Year. 🎉 🥂 🍾 🎆
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as ever - thanks Kai! having looked back there are 2 factors which may have affected my readings ... little exercise for several weeks .... and ....... fizzy water ... got hooked on this about 6 months ago and a recent programme here suggested it had a range of effects inc on microbiome. so... back to swimming again and off the gas ! will check nxt few readings to see. xx
Oooo. . . v e r y interesting . . . 🤔 😳
Forgot about fizzy water’s 💦 ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car... ) low pH (acidity). 😳
Thank you for reminder 👆➰ (string around finger), GranAmie. 🙏 😌
Yes, yes . . . wondering if 6 months of drinking carbonated water ‘messes with’ the microbiome? 🤔 🤷♀️
[Remembering (long ago) used to routinely drink fizzy water — in place of sodas 🥤& other ‘sweetened’ drinks. Enjoyed its nose-tingling 👃 , bubbly effervescence. ☺️ 😋 ]
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Aside: Heard about Alkaline Water 💦 (high pH 9️⃣➕) from Lyn 👵 (on podcast) & have been ‘experimenting’ with it. 🤨 So far, so good, to my surprise 😳 (& disbelief 🤯 ) . [Can drink it throughout day, but NOT ‘with’ meals.]
If that type of thing interests you, poked around looking for some research resources that might be of curiosity: ( nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_sea... , google.com/search?as_q=%22a... , google.com/search?as_q=alka... ) [Don’t know what to make of it, yet find it interesting. 🤷♂️ 🤔 ]
Oh . . . aside, ‘Aside’ . . . If you’re ever looking for a variety of ideas on ‘gentle’ exercises, GranAmie: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
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🥂 >clink<
To further improvements in the New Year! 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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🎈2️⃣0️⃣1️⃣8️⃣ 🎉 🥂 🍾 😘 💋 🎆
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I remember seeing Lowry Turner on The Wright Stuff a while back saying heating olive oil turns it into a trans-fat which is a bad type of fat.
Merely additional views, GranAmie et. al., on the topic of OILs from 'Whole Foods Plant-Based' perspectives: Olive Oil — not Popeye's 'Olive Oyl': healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...
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Very, very interesting the various similarities/ overlaps amongst the various dietary 'philosophies' on oils & the outright contradictions amongst the 'philosophies' (on oils) as well! 😳 😯
Oh là là . . . 😯
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Oooo . . . how do we decide which 'philosophical' roadmap 🗺 to follow?! 🤔 🤷♀️ 🤦♂️
Looks like we each must assess what works for us & follow what 'works for us'? 🤔
And, should it cease working for us (at any point), we learn to flexibly fine-tune/ adjust to what we 'now' discover 🔎 ✨ works for us. 👍👍
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Good ole' 'trial & error' self-experimentation 👩🔬 ⚗️ is sometimes the only way to find out. 😳 🤔 👍
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As so commonly noted, "what works for 1 person 🙆 , doesn't necessarily work for another 🙅." 😯
And, the only way to find that out is to TRY. 😯 😳 😂
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Oh là là . . . 🙃
Endlessly ✨ fascinating ✨ 🤔 😯 ☺️ . . .
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(Thank you so much, GranAmie et. al., for raising the topic & sharing your research & thoughts. 🙏 😌 Much, much appreciated. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞 )
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Thank you Kai ... have enjoyed so much getting my grey matter working again [ think your post and the B12 gave me a kick start LOL]. Still on a high here from being discharged by the pneumologist last week; she asked what I'd been doing to improve my lung function and to reduce the RA. Turned out she has developed RA since last December and is trying to get off mtx and has also gone on the diet path [off wheat, grains, dairy, lectins etc etc] and so far so good , tho' is finding sugars hardest to avoid. So for some people as you say , there has to be an influence / effect.
of course I have to admit it may 'just' be remission, but what the heck ... the journey remains interesting xox
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Kindly delight in every minute of 'remission' no matter how it was achieved, GranAmie!! 😃
Yes indeed the journey is interesting. 😳 🙃 😂
All the more interesting when feeling better & able to get the ole' grey matter working!! 😂 😂
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Thrilled to bits you've been discharged by pneumologist! 🤗 🎉 ✨
Will be very, very interesting to see how your pneumologist perspective evolves should she choose to pursue dietary/ lifestyle (d/l) means (along with any prescribed meds). 🤔
Glad you kindly jumpstarted her on considering/ exploring d/l.
(For some of us, d/l is key 🔑 to improving/ healing.)
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Have noted supplemental information (above) about lectins if you're interested.
(Again, it's info. from a 'plant-based' perspective/ philosophy, so it may not match other 'dietary philosophies'. Perhaps place it in context of an 'additional perspective'.)
Keep well, dear lady, keep well. 😌 🙏
🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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Oh, don't know if your pneumologist might be interested in this process to help reduce (get off?) her MTX safely: If, When and How to Safely Lower Methotrexate: vimeo.com/239379622 (30-minute audio & slide presentation)
Also, she might find Douglas Lisle's work useful in understanding & avoiding such addictive (& easily over-indulged-in yummies) such as sugar. Douglas Lisle: 'The Pleasure Trap': healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
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Funny thing, I have come accross this before, that by just adjusting one possible culprit,the whole RA is resolved. Read about this in cases of reactive arthritis, arthritis caused by hypothyroidism and also how B12 deficiency can be the main trigger in RA, Niacin deficiency and a certain food allergy, I am sure there are many others. Perhaps there are lucky ones among us where the triggering culprit for the disease is not so complicated whereas in others there is multiple factors and dysfunctions. Just thinking🤔Happy for you!
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Bit more on thyroid connection (to RA) Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH) & Inflammation, GranAmie/ Simba1992 that you might find interesting : [Deleted defunct link 🔗 .] (2-minute video)
[Also, kindly bear in mind it's from a plant-based physician's (Dr. Michael Klaper) perspective so it may philosophically clash with whichever approaches/ philosophy one may consider 'valid'.]
Also, a bit more on B-12 supplementation (& nutrient deficiency connection to RA/ autoimmune illnesses), which you may already be well aware of: B12 Supplementation: vimeo.com/238945269 (4-minute video)
🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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Thank you Kai for the video link but couldn't unfortunately open it (?)
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If Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH) & Inflammation link failed, kindly see if any of these work:
[Deleted defunct links 🔗🔗 .]
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If these fail, I don't know how else to link to it. Doh! 🤦♀️ 🤦♂️
(Sorry about that, Simba1992. 🙏 😔 )
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If B12 link failed, I don't know how else to link to that one either. 😳 🤷♂️ 🤷♀️
(Double Doh! 🤦♀️ 🤦♂️ ) 😂 🙃
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🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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B12 didnt fail. More interested in the THS one. I'll try. Evidently to listen to this you need to have access to the forum. I never understood how to get access and thought it would automaticly be possible when you bought the program. This must not have been the case (?).
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Yes, I think you're correct, Simba1992. 👍
The only workaround I can think of is to Google 'search' for Dr. Klaper's work (& TSH) to find his views on thyroid/ TSH. Apologies. 🙏 😔
[Did cursory 'search' 🔎 & nothing jumped out, so I've no other links 🔗 to point to. Sorry, sorry. 😳 😞 ]
In general, have found Dr. K's 👨⚕️ perspectives 'rang true' (for me) whether or not they'd ring true for anyone else, don't know.
Anyhoo, if interested, you might find something via 'search' 🔎 & poking round? 🤔
[In meantime, will delete ➰ defunct links 🔗🔗 so as not to confuse 🙃 anyone else.]
🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞
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thanks Kai but can't open .... back to swimming, began yesterday so in 2 days feel better [ and more optimistic] already
Thanks Simba ... hadn't connected B12 to RA, just tried it on gp advice for 'foggy brain' which has gone.... Interestingly at abt same time I decided to reduce SSZ by 50% as cdn't stick foul taste all the time, also v. bad dreams and moods. Will have 2 admit 2moro tho at review apptment when i get latest blood results... Hands still stick on steering wheel and ankles swell if walking far but elsewise ok. biggest prob atm is recovering [still] from jellyfish stings nr malaga in late september... still can't sit easily LOL . think on... xx
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