Does anyone have any experience of renadyl which makes strong claims for kidney improvement? renadyl.com/
We are considering various probiotics including that for mum to help with a resilient UTI.
Renadyl is also nephrologist-approved (maybe not mum's but that's a different story!). Others eg VSL3, may also help kidney according to some research and are cheaper than pricey Renadyl.
Interesting claims. I'd want to see the scientific proof not the anecdotal evidence. But this is the part I liked most;
"These statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease. Results may vary."
An great footnote on the site. What is it intended for, generating money!
I think I would be consulting a Dr for answers and medication.
Others have had UTI's so there must be a medical cure.
Until you know what is causing the UTI be very cautious of starting with probiotics. You could end up feeding the infection.
Thanks for your reply. Re a " medical cure", it's called antibiotic! The one her GP has prescribed states not for people with kidney disease on the leaflet, hence mum not yet taking. Her GP states it is OK for 3 days and her CKD level (stage 3) without full reason given or "root cause" of UTI. How can she find the latter?
Probiotics appear to be accepted by medical bodies - if we get VSL3, it would probably be via local stockist Lloyds Pharmacy. Not sure why you believe the good bacteria probiotics contain could feed an infection of bad bacteria?
Antibiotics are not the wonder drug we were told, they can be a cause of troubles as well.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with probiotics themselves.
It is the circumstances about which they are taken and the manner in which they are taken that can cause problems.
Strong yeast enzymes in the gut will have a feeding frenzy on the probiotics, consuming it and negating the reason it was taken. Everything needs to be kept in balance. Antibiotic against probiotics against the gut flora natural balance. Get one too far out of balance and there is trouble. Fortunately most people only ever get to a mild yeast problem.
In my opinion the UTI would be my first consideration ahead of the CKD. I would take the antibiotics. Probably not take probiotics unless there is a history of stomach problems and the antibiotic does is a high dose.
There may be a drop in kidney function, but, it is often short term while taking medications briefly. At stage 3 I have dropped 15% and been able to recover 12 % and still rising. Three weeks of Celecoxib, known to kill kidney function. It is the long term effect on kidneys we need to watch out for. Sometimes mitigation is required to get the best result. This is what the Dr is doing in prescribing the antibiotics. Kidneys are more robust in the short term at stage3 than most people realise.
There are always side effects to medications. The difference is, can you tolerate them or not.
I've had a lot of UTI's and have kidney failure at 24% its stage 4 but did have a problem with antibiotics and suggest before doing anything else ask for the hospital microbiologist to look at her urine sample and make sure that its the right antibiotic and most are dose adjusted for Renal failure. In my case I have Monuril its a drink and works overnight prescribed by the RenalTeam just for convenience and it works very fast. Also look up double voiding and see if she can do that plus most importantly drink at least 3 pints a day. Drinking more will really help and I'd not take anything non prescribed as it could make things worse. I've know the name of the bug causing my infections now and it has to have the right antibiotic so worth discussing with the GP. I've been free of infection now for a year or more by following the advice of drink loads and only use simple soap on advice of Nephrologist but she must take the prescribed antibiotics as failing to do so risks a kidney infection and thats really, really bad and a hospital job.
I really appreciate your reply...but to be honest will not recommend your approach yet! That's because we believe in the alternative approach to drugs, as illustrated in my communication here with Darlenia.
In brief, we feel that taking the antibiotic route is a last resort and could leave mum "up the creek..." if it fails. Besides the gut flora & a/bio resistance risks, her experience of previous antibiotics is poor with sickness etc and the risk displayed in the leaflet makes her very wary. We assume the prescribed one (nitrofurantoin) is specific to her UTI since we noted in Patient Access that a culture was done though the GP hasn't confirmed verbally.
Btw mum drinks much more than 3 pints of water daily.
Obviously we will have to rethink if our approach doesn't bear fruit but that may also be the case with a/bs. The problems with those are demonstrated in mum's experience, in this post/thread and elsewhere eg a separate post in Thyroid section of HU "Any Advice..." for someone taking nitrofurantoin.
Thanks again.
That a fine and I understand but just a note thats the stuff I have under its commercial name of Monouril so maybe she's has Ecoli ? as a colony that lives in her bladder ? if so please, please check as if it goes up to her kidneys it could be that its not going to be easy to treat but turns into an emergency and too late to treat. I'm not trying to frighten you but its a simple orange flavoured one off drink used by Nephrologists to protect her kidney function. They do know about the potential risks of not treating this infection. I've a pack for an emergency in the cupboard as its so important to treat this infection. Its gentle and taken on an empty stomach at night it does work and work well. If its Ecoli it really does need treating so please talk to her Nephrologist pharmacy before saying that you prefer to go down the natural route as Ecoli won't go away on its own it must be treated seriously to stop it infecting her kidneys. I understand she drinks a lot but that helps prevent an infection it won't wash it away. It may even damp it down but it'll come back stronger and eventually resistance will happen. I wish her well and urge you to get more professional medical advice before dismissing this drug. It's one I'd say is better than most and has no side effects and clears an infection fas.
Thanks. It's different as the drug you use is based on fosfomycin trometamol not nitrofurantoin. Of course, that doesnt mean mum's bacteria is not ecoli as I think that's the most common UTI.
Ive compared the leaflets for both drugs and believe my mum may have been less worried about Monouril simply because, whilst it also warns against use with CKD, it stipulates severe kidney problems (creatinine clearance below 10 ml/min). My estimation of her CCL is ~53. Conversely the leaflet for MacroBID/nitrofurantoin states not to take with "severe kidney disease", without qualification. However, she is still wary due to the other 3 or 4 concerns Ive listed.
We arent "dismissing" the drug completely, just that it's a last resort (which mum may have to take, if necessary), for reasons given.
Between a rock and a hard place, really worrying for you and your mum. Especially when better drugs are available my function is much lower and the Nephrologist wrote to GP to say what to prescribe. I think it's a lot more expensive and so may not be the first antibiotic that springs to the GP's mind. I hope she gets better soon.
I would not take an unregulated drug or pill at all no matter what it says. There is no magic pill that cures ckd, you also don’t know what reaction it will cause in your body, eat healthy, stay hydrated and only take medication approved and rubber stamped by your medical team, even regulated drugs have adverse effects to the body.
Thanks for your reply. Technically it's a supplement not a drug and the "regulated" drug option cautions against use with kidney disease. See that and other points in my reply to Cheyne.
Mum wouldn't be taking a probiotic to cure CKD (I posted about Renadyl after reading the claims) but to help remove UTI. She stays well hydrated, follows a rigid diet etc but it doesn't remove her resilient UTI. So how would you do that?
Im with you there. I have my Nephrologist. My gp. And my addictions specialist and then my psychiatrist. They all want me on diff meds.
Fully agree. No-one in our household on medications, not even the dog!
Agreed and well put.CKD and other kidney disease has no cure, but with correct medication, diet, water, exercise and monitoring by a competent physician; who listens and is attentive to the patient's needs it can be controlled with the goal to stop progression.
If a doctor is not attentive to the patient's needs, then perhaps it is time to find one who is.
You are absolutely right that taking supplements without physicians supervision; especially those not FDA approved is playing with fire.
Thanks for your great response.
B..
It says right on the package:
This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
It really should be a law against companies that does this, but they cover their butts with that statement 😡
Please be very careful with taking “supplements” which claim to improve kidney function. Always double check with your medical team before using any treatments that have not been specifically prescribed by your medical team. Some “supplements” actually cause harm to kidneys. If you are not happy with a particular member of your medical team ask for a referral for another specialist. Best of luck!
As per my reply to cobrakai2020, mum wouldn't be taking a probiotic to cure or improve CKD but to try to remove a UTI. Her GP wants her to take an antibiotic that warns against use with CKD, hence her quandary. How would you remove a resilient UTI in face of that?
We're aware of supplements to avoid (and do!) kidney.org/atoz/content/her.... But I cant find anything warning against probiotic supplements. I read a report by Kidney International which, whilst cautious about probiotic benefits for CKD, does not mention any harms. Do you have other advice from a different organisation?
I wish I did! Best wishes to your mum!!
Thanks. So I think I can probably ignore concerns that probiotic supplements can cause harm to kidneys, particularly as Ive just had VSL3 cleared by our local Lloyds pharmacist (who could be considered a member of mum's medical team).
Probiotics are useful in maintaining or restoring intestinal imbalances particularly in the case of utis as the antibiotics given for those can not only remove the infection but also the good bacteria and flora needed for proper digestion - in some cases, long-term antibiotic use can even lead to C. diff, a life altering condition. Probiotics are recommended to prevent that from occurring. I have no recommendations for type of probiotics, so I'd trust your Lloyds pharmacist. You seem to be in the UK, that nation often has a better grasp on wellness and has better medical outcomes than the US.
Many thanks, I agree totally. I'd also add that, by rebalancing the gut flora with probiotics, immunity is enhanced (80% is in gut) thus reducing further UTIs. Hopefully, in mum's case, it will also aid removal of the current one (?) but she's also taking natural antimicrobials including an echinacea tincture.
We've got the VSL3 now from Lloyds, with pharmacist approval, so plan to start it tomorrow. Keep fingers crossed for her!
Not sure UK better than US re healthcare. We'd always looked up to US but, to be fair, that was based on spending by drugs companies etc!
I take probiotics, not this one though. We need good gut bacteria to promote our health. Usually I take probiotics with 10 healthy gut bacteria once every couple months for a ten day period. Renadryl only has three bacteria. If you take medication on a daily basis, it is advisable to level up your gut health not only through the foods you eat, but through the use of prebiotics and/or probiotics. It is vital to make sure that if you do take supplements to make sure they cannot harm your precious gems. Eating two apples a day also does a pretty good job of increasing gut bacteria :).
Thanks for your reply to which I agree. One advantage of renadyl is the inclusion of prebiotics (not the only supplement that includes prebiotics though) but specific foods can do that also so we may do that and select VSL3 instead. What is your probiotic/prebiotic?
You should always check with your nephrologist before taking any suppliments.
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