Anyone not following LCHF: Is it just me? It... - Weight Loss NHS

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Anyone not following LCHF

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August

Is it just me?

It is clear that not everyone on this site is following the same diet; there are maintainers and there are dieters following different guidelines to maintain or lose weight.

Yet, I am left with the feeling that if I do not support and adhere to a LCHF diet, then I am …. I am not quite sure what it is …. but, whatever it is, it seems wrong and feels uncomfortable on a NHS weight loss forum.

I am a vegan calorie counter who is careful with her macros and does not wish to eat a high fat diet with good reason.

I wanted to write this because I hope that there are other dieters on this site who may feel the same way. I want them to know that they are not alone and hope that they will empathise with my post.

I am not looking for advocates of LCHF – quite the opposite…. a group of people who want to follow alternative diets.

Sally

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146 Replies
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UnitedRed
UnitedRed4 stone

Hi Sally, I’m a plain old calorie counter too. It works for me so I’m sticking to it.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to UnitedRed

And a 3 stone badge too. Well done you... go on you reds!!!

The reason so many of us crazy about LCHF is we failed on the NHS plan. I personally had an obese consultant telling me to eat low fat and exercise more despite me showing I was following both.

I’m a low carb calorie tracker - does that count as alternative? Probably middle of the road I suspect. :)

Thehappyman
ThehappymanMaintainer

Hi itsmesally, am not quite sure why you would be feeling uncomfortable on this forum.

My obsession of this forum is members talk about there own experiences and their struggles, successes and failures.

We all benefit from the many post that we get on here.

It has most definitely helped me regain a healthy weight again.

I have read many posts on here who are following the NHS calories counting who have been very successful and some who have not.

Some members have after reading on this forum decided to try a different approach to lose weight. LCHF is one of them that has worked for many members on here.

Forgive me if am reading your post wrong, but I get the impression that you feel that because this is an NHS forum, only members following that diet should be posting on here.

So members who are now following the low carb high fat diet, should just post their experiences on the LCHF forum.. and vegans should only post on the vegan forum.

You have chosen to eat a vegan diet to help you lose weight, if that works for you that's great.. is it the LCHF vegan diet! or are you just doing your own thing?

I think this forum is just great for everyone who just wants be happy with a healthy weight.

Having said that, this is one of the few forums I read on that is excellent at keeping to the guidelines on H U.

wa2un7
wa2un7Maintainer in reply to Thehappyman

Believe me as a long time member if you don’t follow LCHF you can feel uncomfortable. 😊

Hidden
Hidden in reply to wa2un7

I had decided not to weigh in today, to leave this forum, until I saw the post which was top of the digest in my email.

Most worryingly I have seen newbies with serious health issues being instructed to go LCHF, with no knowledge of how it would affect their condition.

wa2un7
wa2un7Maintainer in reply to Hidden

Please don’t leave. I did consider doing that as well but decided to stay to support others.😊

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to Hidden

Yeah, please stay.

The problem is we have all been advised to eat low fat by the government, with no knowledge of how it would affect our conditions. And studies show that it almost always worsens it. 2/3 of us have be overweight and millions are becoming diabetic or pre-diabetic yet the advice does not change.

We need to realise that the advice to cut fat right back and fill 1/3 of your plate with low nutrient beige carbs is a fad diet and is killing us.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

Thank you for that supportive comment.

However the post still includes what I find heavy handed promotion. I could argue your points. (You can't say that following that advice has led to the increased obesity, because, well, you don't know what percentage of those who became obese were following that advice. And that's a major confounding factor).

The statement "We need to realise" is the kind of statement which raises my hackles, because what is stated has not been proven. The meta analyses are not there. The Cochrane reviews have nothing on LCHF, but they do on low glycemic (Good).

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to Hidden

It's actually not my role to prove that diet is bad for us, it's the NHS's role to prove that their extreme diet is good for us. There is no such evidence, so they should abandon it.

Edit: oh, sorry, this is the place to discuss it. I thought I was in a different thread.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

Are you not concerned that so many people are reacting to this kind of overzealous communications, and don't feel comfortable here?

Where is the evidence that the NHS diet is bad for us?

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to Hidden

healthunlocked.com/nhsweigh...

We followed the advice and we got fatter and sicker. What more evidence do you need?

Anyway, they are spending millions promoting this diet. It is not evidence based. They need to prove it is good for us, not the other way around.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

What percentage of the people who got fatter were following the advice?

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to Hidden

This is crazy! they tell us to eat differently, we do and we get fatter. They need to prove their advice is good.

If this was a clinical trial of a dietary intervention, the ethics team would have shut it down decades ago, because those on the intervention are getting sicker and fatter, while the control group (France) has half the rate of obesity and is one of the lowest rates of CVD in the world, despite them smoking much more than us.

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to Hidden

PS. I followed their advice and I got fat and sick, like the rest of the country.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

You've not addressed my question.

What percentage of the population followed the advice and got fatter?

Simply repeating the statement does not prove it.

I've no reason to disbelieve what you say, so I accept it as true that you followed their advice and put up weight.

You can't assume that everyone else did that.

All you have to do is walk down the supermarket aisle and see the huge variety of processed food. Carefully designed to encourage people to eat more than they need.

Even if most people followed the rules, (even by using processed foods, heaven help us) what about the snacking? The alcohol?

When I was a child treats were really treats in that we rarely had them. 30g packet of crisps once a week. The only biscuits we had in the house were so disgusting I wouldn't eat them. Like Rich Tea but smaller.

These are confounding factors:

We don't know what percentage followed that diet.

We don't know if they cooked from scratch or used processed.

We don't know how much snacking they did.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

Remember a population study of one would be -should be - laughed out of court.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Thehappyman

Hi Happy Man,

I am not vegan to lose weight, I am vegan for health reasons.

certainly do not expect everyone on here to be following a specific NHS plan - even the NHS offer alternative plans.

What was asking for was anyone who was not following LCHF to make themselves known if they wished to.

Sally

Juppy
Juppy7lbs

You go girl! There are lots of ways to lose weight and different things work with different body types, hormone mixes, etc. Each person is on a journey to find out what works for them. I was doing really fine adding more healthy fat to my diet and then posted about discovering cheese was a problem food for me, and I was really pleased with myself discovering this. I was immediately pelted with LCHF responses such as that it couldn’t possibly be true, I was doing it wrong, if I kept eating cheese I would eventually get sick of it, etc that I finally just deleted the post. Probably immature to not leave it up but I was just not in a good place to feel shot down on my self-discovery. I know those people had good intentions, but I really don’t like people who talk in absolutes and can’t imagine someone could have a different challenge/experience. Now there are many LCHFers (like Lytham and Hopalong1) who have been great helps and support all discoveries, but some others are not. I did try to do LCHF as some advocates proscribe. I went a bit overboard with the cheese, cream, butter etc and never got sick of it and and gained 10 pounds back. I continued with the LCHF for nearly a year and gained all my weight back so I think I gave it a fair shot. Now I’m on a balanced diet and doing really well and feeling better. For me personally, I did discover I need about 400 calories of added healthy fat (olive oil, avocado, etc) a day to stay satiated. I have learned a lot from my LCHF friends. So I did ditch the super lowfat diets. Anyway, it’s a journey of discovery so let’s support each other, recognising that everyone’s physical characteristics are different and tips/strategies that work for some won’t work at all for others. So let’s keep the tips coming but maybe try not to be so forceful about it? Or recognise what worked for you may or may not work for someone else?

Lytham
LythamSuper Host 3 stone in reply to Juppy

Hiya mate, I discovered a while back that lchf isn't a license for me to eat unlimited amounts of cheese and dairy (shame!) But we all just have to tweak and find a happy balance that works for us , hope you've found your Happy Balance ! :-) x

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Lytham

Cheese is my downfall and I need to moderate it. Not chocolates. Cheese.

Lytham
LythamSuper Host 3 stone in reply to Hidden

Ha ha ! Yes, totally, I'm the same ! But at least I get to have some occasionally, stilton is my favourite and I've just discovered St. Agur, OMG ! It's to die for ! :-) x

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Lytham

Well I've got the local farmers' market, and Elizabeth who makes her own cheese, and supplies continental cheeses that the supermarkets don't have. So, naturally, I'm supporting local business and eating healthy food.

Just, too much of it.

My niece when she visits brings cheese as a gift!

Lytham
LythamSuper Host 3 stone in reply to Hidden

Ooh absolutely, you simply must support local businesses ! :-) x lol

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Juppy

Thanks Juppy, I am sorry you have been through the mill but am really pleased that you have shared your experience on here. Equally good to know that you have found a path that works for you and I would be delighted to support you in any way. Love the final comment, " let’s keep the tips coming but maybe try not to be so forceful about it? Or recognise what worked for you may or may not work for someone else?" All the best, Sally

wa2un7
wa2un7Maintainer

You’re not alone but I know exactly how you feel. I’m a 3 year maintainer who was , is and always will be a calorie counter as LCHF simply isn’t for me and at times like you, I’ve felt really uncomfortable and felt I couldn’t admit it. However, all regimes are represented here and you will always find encouragement and support As it is principally a support forum. Stay with us.😊

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to wa2un7

I’m so sorry you have felt uncomfortable Wa2un7 ☹️ I guess if someone has found a solution for them it’s hard not be a little evangelical about it.

But I agree wholeheartedly about our overriding aim, which is mutual support. Nothing beats first hand experience of battling weight.

Our current GP practice nurse is skinny young thing, I have to bite my tongue when she professes to advise me on my diet 😩

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to IndigoBlue61

Hi IndigoBlue, I didn't think there would be so many responsed when I posted this last night and I have only just started reading all the replies. I suspect that there are quite a few of us feeling uncomfortable and to a certain extent criticised when we don't embrace a LCHF diet; I have actually lost weight on one, in the past, and in my meat eating days even used Atkins. I honestly believed that it was the best way to lose fat at the time but have subsequently foung that my current regime is just as effective. To get things into perspective I am not a yo-yo dieter and have kept a healthy weight for most of my life. Unfortunately, I have had significant medical problems and injuries. Forecd inactivity and some pretty appalling medications has caused significant weight gain a few times in my life. I am not surprised that I am not alone in feeling a little uncomfortable with such strong support for LCHF but hope to be a small precursor for change. I truly hope so. Sally

ScoutyPat
ScoutyPat1 stone

Hi Itsmesally. I am not following LCHF.

My Plan - mix of following the nhs 12week plan with calorie count (1300 medically advised). Healthy balance 50% healthy carbs, 25% protein 25% healthy fats and avoid all processed carbs. At least 150minutes of activity each week.

When I finish the the nhs 12weeks, I think the plan will have evolved (it is starting to) into the old SlimmingWorld Red Plan with only eating between 10am amd 6pm as it is becoming obvious that is working for me.

I don't eat the HF as it isn't practical in my family and I refuse to have multiple eating plans as I like eating as a family.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to ScoutyPat

Good for you ScouttPat, sounds like a solid plan and very sensible with a family. Sally

Hi, i calorie count , i dont over do the carbs but I do have them...(not the white stuff though) but i don't do high fat ...

‘Health Unlocked’ sounds to me that we are looking for a key to unlock the suitable and sustainable healthy way of life 😊 seems like LCHF unlocked quite a few doors for people on here.

I personally don’t follow LCHF. Granted, it is definitely lower carb and higher fat in comparison to what I used to eat 😊 now I eat full fat dairy, for example added butter and full fat milk back to my choices, virtually ditched white flour and white sugar products. But a quick look at my records show that there is no way I can state that I eat low carb 😊 the next step for me would be to reduce overall intake of sugar, but I’m not ready to ditch the majority of my fruits and berries 😊

StillConcerned
StillConcernedMaintainer in reply to N-o-r-d-i

When I arrived, LCHF was the exception, with low-fat the general rule. I've always found the vast majority of people to be accepting and inclusive, rather than looking to discriminate. There's room for all of us here.

LCHF does cover rather a broad spectrum, from Mediterranean to Keto.

God bless you!

Eryl
ErylVisitor

Most people follow LCHF because it's a scientifically proven way to reduce weight. Not only that, it's the healthiest diet as it keeps insulin levels down, so it avoids diabetes, reduces likelyhood of cardiovascular disease drastically, reduces neurological problems (including many mental health problems) and reduces the likelyhood of cancers.

You can be vegan and follow a LCHF diet it you eat the right things: whoopwellness.com/high-fat-...

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Eryl

It is not scientifically proven. The Cochrane review, which is the bees knees for medical research, has no meta analysis on it. It does have one on glycemic index.

There is some evidence it might work fir diabetes. Not everyone has diabetes.

You're making some very strong claims there. I don't know where you get your information.

A blog post is not evidence. It's the opinion of the author and it has not gone through a peer review system.

Mental health? That's a very serious claim. The only research on diet and mental health that I'm aware of focuses on the link between the microbiome and mental health and that's very much a work in progress. So they have discovered the gut bacteria which promote mental health, but have not identified the food which promotes same.

apc.ucc.ie/research-2/apc-r...

Eryl
ErylVisitor in reply to Hidden

The biochemistry of de novo lipogenesis (new fat building ) has been proven and the metabolism of sugars has been shown in 2010 (and no one has been able to disprove the theory). Meta analysis has not been carried out because the FD (which is highly processed food industry influenced) has blocked every application for funding of every study.

As far as mental health goes, I'll leave you with this: youtu.be/5As0nmba4r8

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Eryl

I don't watch videos. Send me a link and I'll read it.

Are you really not getting that people are feeling overwhelmed by this overpromotion?

I was about to leave this forum because of it. The tone has changed. it's no longer supportive.

Because of people insisting on promoting their own hobby horses as doctrinal tenets.

People are not stating subjectively "This is what worked for me. Hve you tried it?"

They are saying "This is the only way. You must do it"

And it's very offputting.

I'm still not sure I'll stay here.

Eryl
ErylVisitor in reply to Hidden

psychologytoday.com/intl/bl...

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Eryl

Thanks for sending me that link eryl, and I have scanned it.

I'm taking it with a considerable grain of salt because:

- It's a blog, and not primary source evidence. The sources cited in the srticle frequently lead to other blogs.

- The research which is cited referes to glucose and sugars.

CARBs do not= sugars. They include sugars but the terms are not interchangeable. Indeed sugars include all the naturally occurring sugars in fruit, as well as all the added -oses.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Eryl

I don't know ehat FD ixand I'd like to know.

Meta analyses should be relatively inexpensive to do. It's simply a matter of selecting the original studies from the database which fit the criteria and then filtering for quality.

As the studies are pooled commonalities are found and the findings hav ed greater standing because there are larger numbers.

It's desk study really.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Eryl

Hi Eryl, Yes, I know the science and I do not wish to follow a LCHF diet and am looking for others who don't. I do not wish to be converted to your diet, I am happy with my own. I was looking for others like me, not conversion!

Familytree67
Familytree674st 7lbs

Hi Sally I can’t follow a high fat diet or else my gastritis would flare up again, once or twice I have had some cream which has set it off and that then means 3 months medication to clear it up. So to your question I do not follow LCHF . People have their own opinions on what is best for them and should not make anyone feel uncomfortable on here.

I started by following the NHS 12 week plan and then adapted it to my need for low fat foods, I know some low fat foods have more sugar in them but I carefully over the years read the labels before deciding what is best for me. I count calories and write everything down on daily sheets So anything that goes in my mouth is accounted for. I follow between 1300 and 1400 calories , as you can see by my badge it has been working for me and I don’t really care if others are against that- that’s their problem basically. There ends my rant for this week.

Welcome to the forum , whatever you choose to follow has to be a sustainable lifestyle for you. You will get lots of support and encouragement from everyone here. I have made lots of Virtual friends here and I always look forward to getting in touch with them every monday

All the best to you on your journey, have a lovely week Sue🌸🌸🌸

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Familytree67

Sue, thank you for your lovely supportive post. Your weight loss is impressive and I glad to learn that you have made some virtual friends on here, I hope to as well. Sally

Familytree67
Familytree674st 7lbs in reply to Itsmesally

You are very welcome. Sue 🌸🌸🌸

Stephm60
Stephm602020 August

I'm doing slimming world, but like to follow for tips seems I don't care what anyone says, if it works for me!

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Stephm60

Hi and welcome, Stephm60 :)

All weight loss plans are supported here and the more we hear about, the better informed we all are.

All of the information you need about the forum can be found in Pinned Posts healthunlocked.com/nhsweigh... and I hope you'll be joining all the Events, Challenges and Clubs that we run, especially a weigh-in and the daily diary.

If you haven't already taken it, here's a tour of the forum healthunlocked.com/?tour=true

We've found active participation to be key to successful weight loss and, of course, it's a good way to get to know people, find inspiration and share support and encouragement.

Wishing you all the best :)

telute
telute3 stone in reply to moreless

The thing is I know exactly what this poster means and the pinned posts are a good example. The "when weight loss is a struggle one" is explicitly advocating a lchf diet. Its not impartial advice on how to carry on when things get tough - its an explanation (with nothing scientific to back it up) of why you're doing the wrong thing and should try lchf.

If the forum is impartial it shouldn't be a pinned post - I know it works for some people, but its not the only way. The forum skews towards lchf hard - and if you try and argue against it you can guarantee a flurry of responses saying your wrong. Its incredibly discouraging if it doesn't work for you.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to telute

The 12 week plan is also in Pinned Posts in the welcome newbie post and as a widget link on the home page. The 'When weight loss is a struggle' is there, because most people that arrive here are struggling to lose weight and don't know that there's an alternative to what they've been trying for years. Nobody is being forced to do something they don't want to do, only being given advice about what has worked for others.

For so long, the only advice that has been given has been low fat, high carb and that's from the NHS and major slimming clubs. Many people have tried them numerous times, myself included, only to believe that they're complete failures because it hasn't worked as a permanent solution.

It's also very difficult to watch others struggling to maintain weight loss without offering advice that could help. Many people here have been grateful for that advice, as it has changed their lives forever.

telute
telute3 stone in reply to moreless

But there's lots of other options as well - like intermittent fasting - that aren't represented. My main issue is really the title of the post though. When you say "for when it's a struggle" you imply that lchf is the fix. But lots of us struggle because we find it hard to make time for ourselves, or we have mental health issues - that post won't help us it'll just make us feel like there's one more thing we got wrong.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to telute

Here's the thing, telute, there are probably hundreds of ways to lose weight and we will all have tried many of them. Everyone is entitled to write a post about whatever way that they have found works for them and let others know about it.

We choose not to pin a post about intermittent fasting, because we've seen it used in a way that borders on eating disorder and don't want to advocate something that could head someone down that road, although many of us use it and it is regularly represented.

I think the title LCHF is a misnomer and needs changing, because really it's about eating real food and not relying so heavily on carbohydrates, or being afraid of fats.

I'm afraid the mental health issue is something that is a concern for all weight loss programmes and not one that we feel qualified to address.

telute
telute3 stone in reply to moreless

You coukd address this one pinned post just by changing the title though - or by swapping it for something that links to a variety of different healthy eating or diet guidelines and saying 'what you're doing not working? - try one of these!'

If admins pin a post it's reasonable to assume that's what they endorse as the correct way. Especially when it's so high in the list of pinned posts and its inclusion is heavily defended

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to telute

OK, I've edited the header, which I hope will meet with your approval :)

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

Frankly moreless I've felt bullied by the zealous advocacy here. I was about to leave the forum until I saw this post . It's no longer a supportive place.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Hidden

I'm sorry you feel that way, derrygeel, as we spend hours every day trying to support everyone.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

I'm not comfortable with that response. You're sorry I feel that way?

But not sorry that people on this list, which you moderate, have been overzealous in promotion of one way of dieting?

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Hidden

Of course people are zealous when they've found something that works for them and want to share it with others. As Flo-jo has said, we're all adults and all trying to improve our health.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

I disagree. Zealotry is not acceptable. Zealotry is just wagging your finger at someone and saying "You must do things my way. You must do things my way. This is the only way". It assumes the other person does not have other relevant life experience or feelings.

It doesn't work for me. All the zealotry in the world will not change that.

And on weeks when I have gained, I may be fishing for a reason why, or I may know I just overindulged, to have someone try to force the gospel of LCHF is not supportive.

What works for me is calorie counting, moderation. A bit of cop on. Which I often lose. Especially whne I'm stressed as I have been in the past year.

I know what has caused the gain. I don't need others who don't know to "forcefeed" me LCHF.

This list was not as zealous in the past.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Hidden

The dictionary definition for zealous is:

Someone who is zealous spends a lot of time or energy in supporting something that they believe in very strongly, especially a political or religious ideal.

Synonyms: enthusiastic, passionate, earnest, burning

I'm really pleased that calorie counting is the right way for you and I admire your stand for it.

Different strokes for different people and that's the beauty of the internet. It allows different ideas to be aired and information to be imparted, so that we can all be better informed and therefore better able to choose the correct path for us.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

You don't find it concerning then that the zealotry is making so many people feel uncomfortable? On what's meant to be a supportive forum?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

For the record moreless, I never found your posts to be zealous. Anything you said was contained in a more global holistic way. I'm aware that a slightly hostile tone has crept into our discussion, and I wanted to set the record straight, because you obviously put a lot of time and effort into this.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Hidden

Thank you for that derrygeel :)

As a moderator, there's a fine line to tread to ensure that we're not being censorious. We have to allow for different opinions and ideas and hope that members are able to take, or leave any advice given and we only step in when forum guidelines have been breached.

We would hope that everyone gets support and information and ask that anything members don't agree with can be ignored.

We do the best we can :)

Hidden
Hidden in reply to moreless

I am aware of your supportive ro lke moreless, and conscious that you've never been dictatorial about any approach.

Thank you for all that you do.

moreless
morelessAdministrator in reply to Hidden

Thank you, derrygeel :)

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to Hidden

Remember that if any member finds a post or a response that they feel over steps the mark, being rude, offensive or offering extreme views, please bring those to the attention of Admin. There is also the Report facility, where Admin are notified but also Health Unlocked

Hidden
Hidden in reply to IndigoBlue61

Indigo blue, it's not that these posts were rude, so as such they were not reportable. It's just that the implication, sometimes stated , was that you MUST follow LCHF.

None of us responds well to must on a lifestyle issue.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to telute

I wholeheartedly agree with you - point well made. I wonder if anyone is listening!

GoogleMe
GoogleMeMaintainer

Although I don't read much and post still less these days, I've been on this forum since it started, since the NHS plan came out (and perhaps more to the point I lost 20kgs, got to a healthy weight, if not a healthy waistline, and stayed there for a good few years although I have some work to do now due to a change in circumstances which means I am getting less incidental exercise).

I've never used LCHF. If I developed one of the disorders for which the evidence suggests it is an effective treatment (particular forms of diabetes and epilepsy) you bet I'd do it. I suppose it has influenced me insofar as I don't think I have to have a largely carbohydrate food item at every meal so my lunches quite often don't, but I have serious concerns about the impact on the planet of LCHF and *some* of the interests and beliefs behind its promotion.

There were a few years when it was mostly 5:2.

(FWIW The C25K forum does keep focused on a particular NHS programme for getting into running. It works really well as a forum)

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to GoogleMe

Have you watched 'The Game Changers' movie? It talks about the fact that the majority of the arable farming in the world is to feed the 'meat industry' and not humans. It includes a lovely quote from a strongman (think he may be the world's strongest man but I am not sure) "To be as strong as an ox you need to eat like an ox and not eat an ox"

Flo-jo
Flo-jo2020 August

Sorry I’m new to site so can’t give a view on your experience. Everyone seems very friendly, lots of enthusiasm for LCHF that’s ok! It’s not really an issue for me, I am an adult and will listen then make my own mind up.

I’m just doing my own thing, I’m following a lowered carb, slight eye on calories, middle of the road. I just hope within that mix a few pounds will come off overtime. If that doesn’t work then it would be silly not to review progress and switch things around.

I am exactly the same way - beware that going against lchf doesn't go down very well with some members of this website.

People need to understand we can't all eat meat and 3 veg for dinner!

Hidden
Hidden

I'm with you 100%. I was active on this forum a few years ago. But since I've come back I've found it an uncomfortable place to be if you don't follow the doctrine of LCHF. Because it is promoted with a religious zeal.

I don't believe in LCHF (see, I'm talking as if it was a belief system, which those who push it down your neck seem to assume). It clearly works for some.

But not everybody.

I'll repeat that.

LCHF does not work for everybody.

I've been humming and hawing about writing an analysis of the Public Health document here, because there's some cherry picking and omissions in it, which make it flawed in my view.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Hidden

Just the response I was expecting. Honest point, well made! I would be most interested in you analysis, I am in a book club with some medics and GP friends. Sally

BettyBadger
BettyBadger2020 July

I am so behind the curve ...... I still though LCHF was 'alternative'!

Good job I'm not writing on facebook, I'm sure my friends would have responses about a curvy behind.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to BettyBadger

If it's good enough for JLo it's good enough for you😄

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to BettyBadger

Lol 😊

TheProf
TheProf2020 July

I'm on calorie counting - so far lost 25kg in the last year - which is about what I wanted - Another year or so to get near what I should be. Slow and steady is fine. You can't lose 50 kgs overnight. Anyway I like to keep active so I eat carbs - breakfast is usually cereal, toast or a croissant. Lunch is our main meal with a variety of low-ish fat recipes and some rice, potatoes or couscous. Evening meal is usually a sandwich or similar. Nothing is forbidden except falling off the diet - counting is not an issue as I have been doing it so long I tend to know what a portion looks like.

The main thing is to stick to the size of portion you need.

Also I was analysing calories and weight and I had the following thought. A recommended diet is 2000-2400 calories per day. This can be higher or lower depending on various factors.

This is less than 100 calories per hour. So 400 calories for breakfast (1 slice of toast, an orange juice and a yoghurt) should keep you going until lunch easily.

You have to get used to eating less!

I have tried a Low carb diet in the 70's - didn't like it .

Hidden
Hidden in reply to TheProf

Yup. I think NHS recommends about 400 cal for breakfast. I love my porrodge. Especially made om pinhead oatmeal. It keeps me full for a long time.

Food4Fuel
Food4Fuel1 stone

Hi Itsmesally, I’m sorry you feel this way...one of the reasons I like the DD is because it does contain such a variety of plans and meal ideas which keeps me inspired. Even though I am following LCHF I would always be interested in picking up some vegan recipes/ideas. I love veggies and I personally find on LCHF that it isn’t possible to eat a lot of fat at every meal as it makes me so full! So quite often I will have soup or a salad etc as an alternative meal. I made a delicious soup recently from courgette, spinach and fresh mint - perfect for summer - would highly recommend it!

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Food4Fuel

There are LCHF vegan and vegetarian recipe books available but I am tend to cook from fresh without recipes, more chef than cook!

Food4Fuel
Food4Fuel1 stone in reply to Itsmesally

Good for you!! I wish I was 😊

telute
telute3 stone

Ive not been on here for a while - but can sympathise as being a calorie counter I often felt like the odd one out.

I would say that if your doing a weekly weigh in those were the most supportive things for me- and generally people didn't fuss about what you were doing unless you asked for advice.

The daily diary was terrible.

It's inevitable that folks will share strategies that they find effective, so such strategies are likely to be shared more often.

But people should follow what works for them.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to SofaJockey

I take your point. It's very nicely made. However posters are not saying Have you tried LCHF. They're saying You must try LCHF. Everything else is rubbish.

That's the difference that makes it unacceptable.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Hidden

I agree with you derrygeel.

Hidden
Hidden

I simply eat lots of protein and tons of veg. I avoid fat and never eat any processed or take out food. I work on the theory that I need to burn what I eat plus à bit more therefore I need sweaty cardio in some form every day. This works for me as I eat the foods I love but in smaller portions. I quit alcohol and never snack. This might not work for everyone but it's working for me so far. If anyone on here gave me grief for my choices I simply wouldn't responding to them. I do what works for me right now and if that changes I will explore other options. We need to respect what works for both ourselves and others and quit bullying others who have chosen their way forward and quit being unsupportive if it differs to what others ate doing. Lecture over ... lol

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Hidden

Thank you.

Bongo4
Bongo4Restart August 2020

Everyone's different and what works for one person won't be as practical for another to follow

There are probably quite a few of us who are not LCHF followers but are happy with our own ideas. But there's no doubt that LCHF is the current orthodoxy round here and, as a relatively new member, I can easily see why anyone would feel uncomfortable turning up and immediately being told that what they thought they knew was all wrong and they need to change everything. Of course as in any social context it's not easy to tell if the LCHFers are a genuine majority or just those who shout loudest.

I'm too thick-skinned to worry about this sort of thing but I have been following the links provided and looking at the evidence, some good, some very weak, more anecdote than evidence. I have decided that reducing my carb intake might help so I've made a few smallish changes and am now following what I think of as MCMF (Moderate Carb, Moderate Fats). So far it's working for me.

But there is still much support available whatever route you are going down. If you can get over the initial phase of being jumped on by the LCHF fraternity you can still do well here. They're a lovely bunch of people even if some of them do have some slightly odd ideas. But then, don't we all?

SofaJockey
SofaJockeyHost in reply to slipstick

I'm loving 'MCMF'.

In reality I'm probably following:

LCBNKMFSCCS

(Low Carb But Not Keto - Moderate Fat - Still Calorie Counting Selectively )

So I would absolutely recognise the different variations around here. 😄

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to SofaJockey

Hahaha 😂

Me too but with the odd G&T . . .

BettyBadger
BettyBadger2020 July in reply to slipstick

I like MCMF.

But I like to think of myself as a free spirt, and not really in to labels. 😄

At the moment I'd say I was FCMF - fewer carbs, moderate fat.

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator

Oh my!! What a post to wake up to! 😩

I am sorry if anyone feels that Admin are OTT towards any single way of eating. Trust me, we all work hard to be patient and supportive of EVERY SINGLE MEMBER whatever their individual views.

Please try to remember that we are all volunteers on our own weight loss journey. Not one member of Admin has ever professed to be an expert. All we do is try to share our own experiences.

I feel sickened to learn that some of our members feel this way.

Feeling sad ☹️

telute
telute3 stone in reply to IndigoBlue61

I think most of us appreciate the work the afmins do and that it's a difficult job. But I think its also fairly clear that lchf and its variants are the current thing - and get promoted as that. I don't know what diets the admins all follow - but I wonder if you all follow fairly similar ones - and that leads to that being promoted because you know it works for you. I don't know how you'd fix that.

I think what those of us who aren't lchf really want is not to have it recommended to us whenever we have a bad week - or to have our food choices criticised for not confirming to it - or to be jumped on whenever we say it doesnt work for us.

We want to feel supported for the choices we make and encouraged to try and stick to our own eating plans - which is what everyone wants.

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to telute

I think it’s very hard when we see people miserable and unhappy not to offer advice. But I am really saddened that you feel you have been criticised or ‘jumped on’ after a bad week. From what I can see everyone who is brave enough to post after a difficult week gets support and understanding, the vast majority of us have been there and had those challenging weeks.

I also disagree about the forum only supporting the LCHF eating plan, quick look at today’s Daily Diary sees a variety of eating plans, and good peer to peer support. We also have a section in Topics where a variety of different eating plans are reviewed.

healthunlocked.com/nhsweigh...

Flo-jo
Flo-jo2020 August in reply to IndigoBlue61

I’ve missed most of this mornings posts as it is a beautiful day I decided to do the garden. 😊How sad that people are feeling upset, My philosophy is “ you can’t please all of the people all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time”. 🥰

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to telute

Great point!

BettyBadger
BettyBadger2020 July in reply to IndigoBlue61

Don't feel sad - think about all the responses (to Lytham's post last week) from appreciative forum members.

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to BettyBadger

Thank you 😊

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to IndigoBlue61

I know you work hard and I certainly would not wish you to feel undervalued, this forum has some great contributers and seems to be well administrated. However, it is clear that I am not alone in my thinking and over-zealous posters do exist. Perhaps they could be encouraged to 'soften' some of their responses?

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to Itsmesally

Without knowing exactly which posts you mean it’s difficult. We walk a fine line to allow free speech whilst also having a duty of care. If you find anything you’re unhappy with please send a PM to any member of Admin and we will do our best

Thank you for caring about this wonderful forum 😊

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to IndigoBlue61

Funnily enough I did exactly that over a week ago and my e-mail was not responded to! It was not addressed to you IndigoBlue you seem to be an excellent administrator. Sally

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to Itsmesally

I’m not sure who you emailed, but I don’t think it was a member of the Admin team? If you send me a PM I can look into it 😊

Hiya Sally. I understand how you feel - I think most of us non-LCHFers have felt like that at some point and it can be a continual struggle.

I've learnt a lot more about myself in terms of food since I've been here and have found some to be very supportive.

I lean towards a Mediterranean style diet and am currently trying to fast 2 days a week.

I don't follow a vegan diet myself but eat very little meat, love vegan food and often post vegan meals.

There are always people around similar to ourselves :) it's just the dominant philosophy is LCHF.

If present day me were to sit at my grandmother's table in say 1953 and say to her "no potatoes please, I am watching my weight", she would have shrugged her shoulders and not served me any. The plate in front of me would then be not dissimilar to what I ate last night.

How has this come to be regarded as an extreme fad diet?

slipstick
slipstick7lbs in reply to Subtle_badger

If it was only "no potatoes" then it might be fine but when you add "and no sugar, jam, bread, rice, pasta, beans, fruit (except berries) etc" it starts to look a bit more extreme.

Mind you in 1953 most of those foods weren't quite so popular and we still had some rationing (in the UK). Perhaps we should really go back to a war-time (full rationing) diet. It's often said that we were at our healthiest then.

Subtle_badger
Subtle_badger17kg in reply to slipstick

I don't remember my nanna serving rice or pasta, and I don't think she would have had any problem with me choosing bacon and eggs rather than toast and jam for breakfast. I eat fruit, in season. One or two stone fruit or a couple of figs are quite OK. Back in the fifties people didn't eat fruit out of season - because there wasn't any - and did not eat it in the quantities we are advised to these days.

Skipping afternoon tea may have concerned her, but she certainly would not have worried I was missing out on vital nutrients by not eating scones.

She was doing laundry for 10 people with copper and mangle. She could enjoy a scone with impunity.

SofaJockey
SofaJockeyHost in reply to slipstick

You make an interesting point.

My diet has been: *no potatoes, no sugar, no jam, no bread, no rice, no pasta, no beans, no fruit (except berries), no processed meats, no ready meals, no crisps, no chocolate, no tea or coffee, no alcohol, no sausage rolls, no cake, no pastries.

(*none does not actually mean none, as some were very occasional)

It looks pretty aggressive without the comment that it was all done by choice and without hunger pangs. 😄

Now at 'maintain' weight, I may well be re-introducing some of those things very, very carefully.

slipstick
slipstick7lbs in reply to SofaJockey

I think at least 99.9% of the population would regard your diet as extreme. Of course that doesn't mean it's wrong or that it can't work for anyone willing to follow it. It obviously suits you but I imagine that there are probably very few people who would be willing to go that far. I certainly wouldn't.

But as you've said elsewhere provided you're offering advice along the lines of "This is what has worked for me." then that's interesting and potentially useful advice and the sort of thing this forum can be really good at.

I'm interested to know why you think it's extreme.

All I can see is that SofaJockey is avoiding processed foods and those which will raise his insulin levels enough to encourage fat storage. Note, he did say that he occasionally ate some of these things.

I regularly ate most of the things on that list for many years and they made me fat and unhealthy. It wasn't until I removed them from my diet that I became slimmer and healthier. That's not a coincidence.

It's not a restrictive list. There are still plenty healthy foods available. You can have fatty meats and seafood and as much veg as you like.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to Night-Watchman

Re: My diet has been: *no potatoes, no sugar, no jam, no bread, no rice, no pasta, no beans, no fruit (except berries), no processed meats, no ready meals, no crisps, no chocolate, no tea or coffee, no alcohol, no sausage rolls, no cake, no pastries.

(*none does not actually mean none, as some were very occasional)

It's not extreme unless you find it so. Many people give up potatoes (roasties have a health warning of their own), processed food avoidance makes perfect sense and many people cannot tolerate pasta (even wholewheat forms). Chosing to eliminate tea, coffee and alcohol is not extreme, many people live without these stimulants. If fruit and beans don't agree with you don't eat them. ..... and as you say there is still a massive selection of good healthy foods available to you.

When all this is over.... will you drive me to the pub for a couple? lol Sally

1stoneandcounting
1stoneandcounting1st 7lbs in reply to Night-Watchman

But if you're vegan or vegetarian this leaves you with... Vegetables

You're assuming that everything mentioned above is verboten.

As SofaJockey said, he will occasionally eat some of the things on his/her list. If you're (that's the general you, not you specifically) going to regularly/typically eat processed foods and those high in sugar, then it's unavoidable that you're not going to be in the best of health. I'm a living example of that. I used to eat what most people eat. Cornflakes/ toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch, some processed food for dinner, and snacks of course. I ditched all that for natural fresh foods. If it comes in a box with a list of ingredients as long as your arm, I'm not interested ;)

A vegetarian diet isn't just vegetables, you know. Eggs, tofu, dairy produce, fruit aren't excluded. I guess some may eat meat substitute products. I was reading on another forum (football-related) about these supposedly high-quality vegetarian sausages (Richmond meat free sausages, just checked), not your cheap supermarket ones. Many vegetarians will eat pasta and rice, but if you look at it nutritionally, they are virtually void of nutrition. I imagine a vegan diet is very limited in terms of available/allowable foods.

I can understand the confusion/misunderstanding around low carb living. It's not about denying oneself life's pleasures. It's about eliminating foods which will be detrimental to our health - specially those processed foods - and replacing them with more foods which are good for us. Even so, I had home-made pizza yesterday but I wont have another one for some time. It's not a daily or weekly or even monthly occurrence. And our plates are not swimming in fat. We're not gulping it down like wine; it's part of the food ;) Who doesn't like butter, cream, whipping cream, cheese, olives and olive oil, avocados, nuts, fish, meat, eggs, dairy products?

slipstick
slipstick7lbs in reply to Night-Watchman

Terminology - anything which starts off with a long list of things to be avoided is by definition restrictive. And a diet which excludes 90-95% of the food available in most supermarkets including much of the vegetable/fruit aisle is always going to seem extreme to me. Your opinion may differ.

Where is this long list of things to avoid? You can wrap all the things to avoid under the processed food banner. We can choose to eat real foods or processed foods. I know which ones I prefer.

"And a diet which excludes 90-95% of the food available in most supermarkets including much of the vegetable/fruit aisle" call me a cynic, but that would suggest to me that the supermarkets have a vested interest in keeping everyone unhealthy. When I go to the supermarket, I go straight to the fresh produce section including the fruit and veg sellers. It's hidden away at the back of the store for a reason :(

slipstick
slipstick7lbs in reply to Night-Watchman

I don't know where you live but all the supermarkets I've seen in the UK have the fresh produce department right by the entrance. In the last few of months I've been in Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury, Aldi, M&S and Morrisons (I'm not a very loyal shopper).

And do you really consider potato, parsnip, peas, sweet potato, brown rice, sweetcorn, bananas, kidney beans, peaches, broad beans, pineapple etc to be "processed foods"? There are more like that, basically straight from the plant, on the list of foods to be avoided or severely restricted. Then there are allowed foods like butter, cooking oils, bacon and sausages which some might think of as having been processed.

All weight loss diets inevitably involve some form of restriction. You may be happy to live with those particular restrictions, which is your right, but please don't try to pretend that they don't exist.

SofaJockey
SofaJockeyHost in reply to slipstick

In an attempt to pick up on the points made by slipstick and Night-Watchman :

I suspect what I'm doing is 'extreme' only in the sense that's it's a 'full-on' attempt to pursue what I would see as the tenets of both LCHF and smattering of calorie counting to ensure portion control and consistent weight-loss of around 2 pounds per week.

Part of the reason I'm trying to eliminate foods is because I don't want to be tempted by them. Take chocolate as an example. Some diet methods keep reintroducing 'treat' quantities which I see simply as ways to keep me addicted and keep the taste (and craving) for such treat foods, so if I'm largely going to do without them I may as well see what happens if I actually do without them.

It's resulted in a 50 kilo loss in 55 weeks (110 pounds if you prefer) and yes, I've been pretty disciplined, but not starving (see healthy fats).

If a slightly more 'relaxed' version of what I've been doing were followed, you'd pretty much have a Moderate-Low Carb 1,600 calorie/day diet including some added fats for satiety. Not extreme at all, I reckon.

When I go around the supermarket I'd say around 90% of the foods there are off-limits, but what matters is finding the intersection of foods I enjoy and that are low-sugar/low carb, and there are plenty of those:

Greek Yoghurt, Kvarg, Skyr, Berries, Eggs (in many forms), unprocessed meats (in many forms), fish, seafood, many vegetables and fungi, cheeses, milk, plus all the things in the 'elimination list' which I can and do occasionally drop in, in a small quantity for variety.

I'm not suggesting that anyone replicate what I do, but if any of these strategies help anyone (and I've tried always to follow the science) then that's a bonus I reckon.

Sarah73uk
Sarah73uk17kg in reply to SofaJockey

Well done on the 50 kg in 55 weeks - thanks for sharing your strategies.

Prettywoman50
Prettywoman502020 July in reply to SofaJockey

What an amazing outcome for you. Well done. I have just embarked on what you have been doing. I saw my Orthopaedic consultant last Thursday and he will see me again in 6 months. If I have lost weight I will stay on the list and if I haven’t lost weight I will be off the list. Seeing my knee X-ray showed me the bad state my knee is in and I really need the op to get rid of the pain. So I must do this, no messing. You have inspired me that I can do this. Thank you Sofa Jockey.

SofaJockey
SofaJockeyHost in reply to Prettywoman50

You can do this.

I wasn't sure 13 months ago, but here we are. This forum is a mine of information and support.

You go for it!

Prettywoman50
Prettywoman502020 July in reply to SofaJockey

Thank you. I am certainly going to give it my best effort. I have to.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger

It's not so much the fad diet approach as posters insisting others should follow it. LCHF supporters don't shrug their shoulders about other people' diets. They insist we should see the light.

BridgeGirl
BridgeGirlAdministrator

My thinking is that if we've tried something several times and it hasn't worked - i.e. got us to a healthy weight we can maintain - then it's time to consider a different approach.

It's rare (though not unknown) to meet new arrivals without a long history of doing their best to follow the advice to cut fat to a minimum, get a large portion of their energy from carbohydrates, often with the addition of eating between meals aka snacking. In a situation like that, suggesting the member continue with the same plan seems to be suggesting they haven't tried hard enough previously.

I just don't believe that. I think the vast majority of members who join us have worked their socks off to follow 'the rules', without seeing results. In my view, I would be failing as an Admin if I didn't say, in that situation, "There are alternatives".

For myself, this forum has been a wonderful source of information and support: and the best of both of these has been when I have been challenged to consider different approaches and views. If I suggest alternatives, it is in that spirit.

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August in reply to BridgeGirl

I think I was looking for members using alternatives to LCHF with this post and not a reinforcement of why you would support LCHF.

Many diets have been tested (some using a trial group of a sufficient size to make it statistically significant) but, few have done so in a clinical controlled environment.

LCHF has many forms, some more extreme in the restriction of carbs than others and has efficacy in certain situations. A LCHF diet will also help some, but not all, individuals to lose weight.... BUT ..... other diets can be just as effective!

Dismissing LF diets is easy to do when the data is distorted by the use of chemically produced low fat alternatives and an associated reduction in healthy whole foods.

Not all fats are equal.

I have just checked the NHS eatwell suggestion and it reads, "It's important to get some fat in your diet, but foods that are high in fat, salt and sugar have been placed outside of the circular image as they're not necessary as part of a healthy, balanced diet and most of us need to cut down on these. Unsaturated fats from plant sources (for example, vegetable oil or olive oil) are healthier types of fat. But all types of fat are high in energy (calories), so they should only be eaten in small amounts."

Although, lacking in depth of analysis and justification, it is advising healthier fat choices and a overall reduction in fat due to its calorie density, which is not 'bad' advice per se. It is incomplete but just giving up the junk and sugar alternatives will help many people to enjoy an amount of weight loss and without doubt a better chance for good health.

This however is not my chosen diet.

Please remember that this post was looking for supporters of alternative diets and not a further plug for your choice. Your choice is your choice and I respect that choice.

Mine is otherwise and I think, rightly or wrongly, that new members should be given more balanced guidance.

I notice that you are an administrator and follow a LCHF diet. This makes me wonder, do the administrators represent a balanced selection of dietary preferences in order that the site is not biased towards one particular diet?

I really would like to know the answer to this.

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to Itsmesally

“This makes me wonder, do the administrators represent a balanced selection of dietary preferences in order that the site is not biased towards one particular diet?”

If you click on a member’s name where it’s highlighted in blue, you can see their profile and all their posts. You will see that the Admins (like all our members) are following different styles of eating, some maintaining and some still on their journey downwards. It’s this peer to peer support that makes the forum so unique and special. 😊

I think Itsmesally has raised an excellent point which any dietary 'enthusiast' would do well to keep in mind.

When sharing advice, I try to share what I've done, and what I've found (a personal experience),

rather than what you should do, or what you should eat or not eat.

Then people can make up their own minds as to what might work for them, not feel judged if their path is contrary to one being advocated.

😄

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to SofaJockey

Wise words as ever 👍👏😊

I think everyone has probably tried calorie counting at some point and most have either failed or succeeded but put all the weight back on. There are some people on here who have done extremely well on calorie counting but it doesn't really need any advocates because it is the standard response from the NHS and government guidelines.

I did suggest a while ago that everyone should update their profile to say what plan they are following. I'm sort of LCHF but but I'm not fanatical about it. I'm quite happy to have a bacon sandwich but I no longer go for the lean rashers and I might add a slice of cheese to it.

I just tend to avoid carbs the way that most of the population avoid fats. I've found that by eating 'good' fats I always feel full and often only eat one meal a day with no snacks in-between. I could never have don that eating low fat high carb. Today I've eaten a four egg cheese and mushroom omelette and probably won't eat again until tomorrow.

It would be great if advocates of low GI, mediterranean, WW, etc all posted about their experiences.

Zest
ZestHealthy BMI

Hi Itsmesally

I'm about to go on holiday, but just wanted to say that I will be reading your post and all the replies when I get back, because these issues interest me.

I used the NHS 12 week plan to help me lose weight, and have been maintaining since (approx 7 years maintaining now) - I must admit I've moved over to the Healthy eating forum more these days - because I also don't really like the focus on LCHF that seems to be apparent here in the NHS weight loss forum. I have seen promotion of dietdoctor numerous times as well, and have noticed that the Ambassadors and some of the Admin have appeared to be proponents of LCHF rather than the NHS plans - which does seem strange for the NHS weight loss forum.

I also think that the graphic for the 12 week plan doesn't link easily to the actual plan - it's quite hard to find it - even though I note that moreless has suggested it's in all the introductory information - I still think it's relatively hard for people to find.

I have to go now, as my hubby was keen for me not to get involved in all of this, as I've been interested in these forums for years now - and I am sad to think that some members have been considering leaving. I really hope those members will stay, and that things can be addressed.

Zest :-)

Eleanorba
EleanorbaMaintainer

Hi there! There’s quite a few calorie counters and other kinds of planners who regularly use the Daily Diary. But lots of LCHFers you’re right. I found it amazing for weight loss years ago but not an ongoing lifestyle choice for me, made me v constipated and I love whole grains and pulses and root veg as staples. I felt I learned from it - I won’t be going back to low-fat processed Diet Food and I don’t eat a quarter of the amount of pasta I used to - but had to move on. Good luck with your journey!

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August

In response to BridgeGirl...

I think I was looking for members using alternatives to LCHF with this post and not a reinforcement of why you would support LCHF.

Many diets have been tested (some using a trial group of a sufficient size to make it statistically significant) but, few have done so in a clinical controlled environment.

LCHF has many forms, some more extreme in the restriction of carbs than others and has efficacy in certain situations. A LCHF diet will also help some, but not all, individuals to lose weight.... BUT ..... other diets can be just as effective!

Dismissing LF diets is easy to do when the data is distorted by the use of chemically produced low fat alternatives and an associated reduction in healthy whole foods.

Not all fats are equal.

I have just checked the NHS eatwell suggestion and it reads, "It's important to get some fat in your diet, but foods that are high in fat, salt and sugar have been placed outside of the circular image as they're not necessary as part of a healthy, balanced diet and most of us need to cut down on these. Unsaturated fats from plant sources (for example, vegetable oil or olive oil) are healthier types of fat. But all types of fat are high in energy (calories), so they should only be eaten in small amounts."

Although, lacking in depth of analysis and justification, it is advising healthier fat choices and a overall reduction in fat due to its calorie density, which is not 'bad' advice per se. It is incomplete but just giving up the junk and sugar alternatives will help many people to enjoy an amount of weight loss and without doubt a better chance for good health.

This however is not my chosen diet.

Please remember that this post was looking for supporters of alternative diets and not a further plug for your choice. Your choice is your choice and I respect that choice.

Mine is otherwise and I think, rightly or wrongly, that new members should be given more balanced guidance.

I notice that you are an administrator and follow a LCHF diet. This makes me wonder, do the administrators represent a balanced selection of dietary preferences in order that the site is not biased towards one particular diet?

I really would like to know the answer to this.

SofaJockey
SofaJockeyHost in reply to Itsmesally

'I notice that you are an administrator and follow a LCHF diet. This makes me wonder, do the administrators represent a balanced selection of dietary preferences in order that the site is not biased towards one particular diet?'

Shouldn't the forum follow the science?

Of course people should follow whatever diet method suits them and be supported accordingly.

But isn't LCHF, scientifically speaking, a more effective diet strategy overall than those the NHS leads with (some aspects of which appear to be flawed, the Eatwell plate, concerns about saturated fat and advocacy for too-high quantities of fruit, as examples)?

A good way to resolve this contradiction is for the NHS to sort itself out and update the 12-week programme accordingly, in line with current nutritional evidence.

Please don't misunderstand me, there is plenty of room for the differing diet approaches and every dieter should be supported with their personal approach.

But I do find the evangelism from the NHS (and indeed government) towards calorie counting / low-fat diets to be rather outdated and so it's not unsurprising that the admins aren't biased towards those approaches.

😊

Sarah73uk
Sarah73uk17kg in reply to Itsmesally

I have been on the forum for a few years, and enjoy joining in the weekly weigh in. Not once has anybody ever told me what diet to follow.

All that has been shared is links to the NHS 12 week plan and to the EatWell guide.

The most valuable information was about understanding that 1400 calories is a standard amount that does not apply to every person - we need to enter more details to the NHS calculator to get out personal range for WeightLoss.

People also post their own stories and strategies which I read with interest. I’m not sure what you expected when you joined this forum? I find it very supportive and informative. I also love the recipes that are shared.

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to Sarah73uk

Thank you Sarah, that’s exactly what the forum should be like 😊

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August

Alternative(S) it is the plural that concerns me and that lack of acknowledgement (or perhaps understanding) as to why the LF data was skewed.

kt_11
kt_112020 July

I definitely wouldn’t say I’m following LCHF either although I have cut right down on certain types of carbs, in particular sugars. I do eat full fat foods (eg eggs, butter, cheese, oils - I’m vegetarian) but not in huge quantities. Although currently the biggest I’ve ever been I’m not hugely overweight (still a size 10) but feel i am too big for my frame. I put the weight on by eating sweets, drinking alcohol and too many processed simple carbs eg bread, pizza and pasta in response to the huge sleep deprivation associated with a baby who didn’t sleep!

My main reasons for cutting down certain carbs now are 1) obviously big portions of food like pizza and chips are actually high in calories and not really very dense in nutrients and 2) whilst going through IVF I learned I have polycystic ovaries (not PCOS) so considered that I may some underlying tendency towards insulin resistance even if it’s never been evident before.

Weight management is such a complex issue but surely the main thing is to find something that fits your lifestyle and you can continue with long term. A LCHF approach seems to tick that box for a lot of people here which is great, but I don’t think it would for me. It has to be the same with exercise. As a former athlete who used to train every day for enjoyment I find it really sad to see people dragging themselves out to run or to the gym if they hate it, just to lose weight. There are so many ways to exercise and if people found something they enjoyed they’d be more likely to continue and see the health/weight-loss benefits.

I have to admit I nearly decided a few times that this forum wasn’t for me, as it seemed that there was a lot of promotion of LCHF as the only option and even some ridicule of other approaches at times. However I didn’t really come here for advice (other than perhaps some recipe ideas), I came for the support network and there are loads of lovely people here so I stuck around 😊 Wishing you all the best of luck with reaching your goals, whichever approach you choose! xx

I “restarted” here a couple of weeks ago, but it wasn’t a re-start of my weight loss journey. I lost two stone last year and now have the last one to lose. I stopped visiting the weight loss forum a couple of years ago because I just couldn’t find my motivation and felt like I was letting down other members who were trying hard. Last year my motivation came in the form of a prediabetic diagnosis (now reversed). I wanted to come back here because I used to really like being part of the Saturday weigh-in group, and I did re-join and lurk for a while to get the “feel” of the forum before posting anything. I’m very much in the middle here, I do agree the government and NHS guidelines demonise natural fats and over promote carbohydrate consumption and are blind to alternatives when this doesn’t work for people. On the other hand I personally don’t want to always cut my carbohydrates as low as LCHF though I do eat a lot of LCHF meals. I’m happy with my way of eating (plenty of natural fats, salad and veg, small portions of high fibre carbs) and didn’t want the stress of having to defend a couple of slices of homemade wholewheat bread or an occasional new potato. So I’ve just been joining in the Saturday weigh in and an occasional reply to someone if I feel I have something useful to say, and hadn’t intended joining in any of the more contentious posts. Not even sure what my point is here except to say it’s great if we can all support each other by sharing our own experience without making anyone else feel wrong about their own choices.

Wow - a real hornets nest!

I really feel that everyone has to just find what suits them and helps them lose weight. I have been a lurker on the forum for a while and have actually been so interested in reading the different approaches. I have adapted several into my present regime - a sort of hybrid - bit of calorie counting, bit of IF, bit of low carb.... it suits me.

I feel very sad that some have found LCHF pushed too much, I must admit I have never felt this and I am sure that no one ever expected or intended anyone to feel pressured.

The forum is very special and I have only ever felt supported. I think we are all adults and make our own minds up, but it is also interesting to be made aware of other approaches, whether we adopt them or reject them.

We all want the same outcome after all - good luck to all whatever choices we make

IndigoBlue61
IndigoBlue61Administrator in reply to MaskedSwan

Thank you MaskedSwan, that’s very encouraging to hear 😊

Tarfgi
Tarfgi1 stone

I'm fairly new to this and there are a lot of really expert people on here which is great, but I confess I don't really get all the variations of what everything means so far! Personally I am starting with calorie counting and trying to eat fairly low carbs which so far has worked for me. I'm hardly eating any meat now, which I think has made me feel better (no idea why!). Hopefully you will hear from others who can help with vegan recipes-good luck!!

TheAwfulToad
TheAwfulToadMaintainer

POST DELETED BY ADMIN

telute
telute3 stone in reply to TheAwfulToad

No one has said its going to kill you. But the argument that its what our forefathers ate isn't true - they ate a lot of bread and potatoes in this country.

Although maybe think about the fact that this was a thread started to see if anyone else on the board wasn't doing lchf and rather than going "well I am so thats not a thread for me" you decided to jump in and tout it as the best way and say you don't think other methods work. And to take a pot shot at veganism which is a perfectly fine diet if you're sensible.

In short you perfectly demonstrated the problem

Itsmesally
Itsmesally2020 August

"The underlying assumption in your original post is that LCHF is somehow unhealthy" Whatever gave you that idea?????

I did not suggest anything of the kind. I was looking for dieters who are not following LCHF and specifically asked LCHF followers to keep away from this thread, saying "I am not looking for advocates of LCHF – quite the opposite…. a group of people who want to follow alternative diets" ..... and yet there you are ..... in good company .... there are so many of you trying to defend LCHF and harping on about its benefits...... its like a disease on here.... and one which I would prefer not to aquire.

I was simply looking for dieters doing something else - I repeat I wanted to chat with people following any diet other than LCHF to see if they felt the same way as I do.

telute
telute3 stone in reply to Itsmesally

Hugs - you're not the only one (even if it feels like it) and lots of us feel the same way even if it never seems to make a difference.

telute
telute3 stone

But don't you see that this is kind of response us exactly what we're protesting against?

TeamAdmin
TeamAdminAdministrator

Everything that can be said about this has been said, and more. As things are becoming quite heated Admin have turned off replies.

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.

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