whooping Cough Vaccine in UK

Hi ladies, after reading articles, comments and anything which pops up about the Whooping cough vaccination, i found people who dint show any harm and also people who said that their unborn kid(s) died in a day or two after the vaccine.

I went on to see the trend being followed in other countries, and it appears to me that the vaccine is not really administered in pregnant women as a general rule around the world - because of its 'not so sure' effects on pregnancy.

some of you might be worrying about whether to take the vaccine or not. While it remains your personal choice, I thought I would share what I was told by my very experienced Aunty who is a highly intelligent and successful doctor with and runs her own Maternity hospital in India.

In her opinion she would never give me a whooping cough jab, especially given the fact that I already had it as a child (and I am immune to it, so logically my baby while inside me is also immune to whooping cough). There are chances that the baby may contract it during the first two months of her life, but given the history of UK in 2012 with around 1000 reported cases of whooping cough, she says the probability of this is very low.

However, she did advised me against traveling and keeping the baby inside the home for the first 40 days atleast, with minimum intervention from outsiders or non-family members with unknown disease history (which made me curious if I would really allow the care-providers from NHS to interfere much). also I am in a slightly better condition to demand non-intervention, because I would be having three highly experienced and valuable ladies with me in form of my own mother, my own nanny and my mother in-law. My mom-in-law is also a retired nurse (and she worked most of her life in Netherlands and is well aware of European vaccination schedules, though not UK particularly)

I was also advised by my aunt to keep the baby strictly on breast-feed atleast until 6th month of the child, after that i can supplement it with formula milk or better still mashed/liquid food. this is to develop the natural immunity of the child.

So there is general consensus emerging in my family that I would not be at all taking the Whooping cough injection. Although as my aunt would be sending me a vaccine schedule which I might have to follow (this may have to do something with my Asian decent). I would discuss these other vaccines in detail with my mid-wife tomorrow and see if they can administer me the same and if not than why not ( i think a little homework in this would be generally useful, not only for me, but for a lot of us in similar situation)

I might even consider having a non-intervention natural home-birth although it sounds bit scary at the moment. But I have a strong feeling that NHS is very interventionist and irresponsible ( after hearing that women lost their babies due to whooping cough vaccines and also remembering the recent audit against NHS Scotland which was bizarre and shocking)

But i think all of us are capable of making informed decisions and I though I would share my decision and reasons behind it.

Also, World Health Organization, advises administering the whooping cough vaccine to the child for the first time when he/she is 2 months, but does not say anything about the vaccine to be given to pregnant women (atleast I have not come across it yet)

Only countries where the vaccine is more popular is UK and USA where the instances of Whooping cough are anyways much lesser than other developing countries of the world (India as I said, does not allow doctors to use this vaccine on pregnant women and would consider it to be a case of medical negligence if a mishap happens after giving the vaccine)

So please, dont only talk to your mid-wives about it, but also maybe consult doctors around the world if you have the fortune of knowing some, or friends who can help get advise on this.

35 Replies

oldestnewest
  • I tried to see if I could see where babies have died because of the vaccine but couldn't find anywhere, it says no side effects on the site I was looking at think it may have been daily mail? If they have it at 2 months then giving it to the mum so the child has some protection sounds like a good idea...how do you feel about it given the info from your aunt?

  • Hi, I initially had no idea about whooping cough vaccine, except this that I had them as a kid myself.

    But over in the NCT forum itself, if you search for posts on whooping cough you would find one from a lady whose daughter miscarried on week 31 the very next day after being given the vaccine. So I looked for more mothers who might have a similar story to share, sadly i only found, people telling about their friends and friends of friends who stopped feeling their babies move or miscarried after the vaccine. Now these instances can be pure coincidence. And therefore it is important that all of us must be very aware of our particular circumstance and situation before we make a decision. My decision of not having the vaccine is based on following multiple reasons

    A) My aunt said that I dont need one, and she is a doctor that I can trust the most

    B) WHO does not really prescribe it as an essential vaccine for pregnant moms even in the countries where whooping cough instances are much higher than in UK. There must be some logic behind not doing so (including the fact that there is no studies saying that it is tested on pregnant women and is found to be safe - like in case of antibiotic amoxycilin)

    C) my personal immune system towards coughs, colds and other air-borne bacterial disease has been very strong (touch-wood). And my own system would therefore protect my baby while the baby is inside me.

    D) My aunt advised me to keep the baby indoors for the first 40 days of the birth. this would automatically reduce the chance of baby contracting disease from outsiders.

    And given the fact that I would have mom and MIL with me, I also think I would demand NHS care-providers to be as far away as possible (they can be a potential carrier of antigens as they meet a lot of babies and families everyday)

    So given my personal circumstances and the advise of my personal doctor, I would opt out from it.

    Although I do have my apprehensions and concerns about the hospital birth - as you surely meet so many people there - so I would discuss my delivery option with the mid-wife and my mom-in-law both (thankfully I also have a friend who is a mid-wife with 20 years of experience and can be handy if I choose a home birth)

  • If you've had whooping cough as a child, this doesn't necessarily mean you are still immune, as immunity decreases with time. And Babymother is right, the vaccination you are offered in pregnancy is the same one that is offered to all babies at 8 weeks old - so it's considered safe for babies.

    Personally, I wouldn't limit any contact with midwives or health visitors after I have my baby, as they are there to carry out important checks and tests - they know the latest research and thinking on health and care for newborns. You can always take on board the suggestions from your mum, grandmother and aunt as well, but I'd say it's risky to consider limiting your baby's contact with health care workers.

  • Seeing a 2 month child die of pertussis in my hospitals resus made my mind up for me. I can still hear her mum in my head - that scream... Wounded animal doesn't even come close...

    Any immunity from childhood - be it vaccine or from having pertussis will be long, long gone.

    Everyone must make their own informed decision - just because your aunt wouldn't advocate giving it, or my experiences in hospital should not influence other readers...

  • Dr. Fluffy I am sorry to hear about the mother, but my aunt is herself a doctor and she as i said is heading her own maternity hospital in India (she has a huge experience not only in terms of 35 years of active practice but also in terms of number of women she has helped in delivering healthy babies. India is a populated country. I am quite proud of the fact that do not have a single case or complaint of medical negligence against her, which talks a lot of her credibility)

    Also apparently, NHS dont really do a postmortem of dead unborn children to find if they died of the vaccine.but there has been instances. They might not have died of the vaccine, and it might be purely coincidental. But if there is risk of the baby contracting whooping cough in the first two months, than there is also 'no guarantee' of safety of this vaccine in pregnant women.

    And I also do not understand why WHO would not prescribe it as essential vaccine for pregnant women ? Despite the fact that instance of whooping cough would be much higher in a lot of developing African nations than in UK. I am trying to get in touch with a friend from Medical Sans frontiers who is currently in South Sudan to take a third opinion on the issue, so obviously I am keeping my research on.

  • I have had a fair bit of experience in perinatal pathology during my training, and to say we don't do post mortems in these cases is quiet simply not true. It is standard practice to offer all parents unfortunate enough to suffer late miscarriage or still birth a post-mortem examination - some decline, especially in the wake of Bristol and Alder Hey. however, many do not. It's always heart breaking to receive such a body in the mortuary as more often then not they are lovingly wrapped in a nice blanket with a soft toy, and you know that even in death this package is precious. You get through it by thinking about the answers you hope to provide to the parents to ultimately give them more information to process the tragedy they are going through and to plan for future pregnancy.

    That aside, you are trying to compare apples and pears. You can't compare developing and developed world medicine as if they are on equal footing. For a start the 'ecosystem' of disease and disease burden is markedly different, and that's without the myriad of socioeconomic confounders added in...

  • The other consideration also is that even 'circumstantial' evidence (I.e very weak) that a vaccine leads to miscarriage woul really quickly lead to a medicine being withdrawn from the pregnancy market. As a doctor, if I even suspect an unrecognised side effect has happened to a patient, I am morally, ethically and legally bound to fill in a 'Yellow Card" to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency - more than a few of these submitted would VERY quickly lead to a review and official advice from the MRHA being issued.

  • I have read alot about the whooping cough vaccine, its a combined vaccine. The same vaccine is given to every two month old baby in the country and other countries, it is then given again throughout childhood as boosters.

    If you as a child have had the injection does not mean you are still protected against whooping cough, after two years you are no longer protected hence the booster injections though out childhood.

    Even like myself I have had whooping cough as a newborn nearly died and now have scarred lungs and been plagued my whole life with severe asthma and breathing difficulties. I even had whooping Cough around two years ago and as an adult was so ill I was in hospital. God knows how a baby would cope!

    Breast feeding as we all know is fantastic and provides a natural defence system for the baby, however it does not provide enough immunity for whooping cough, again through research and discussion with medical people and research that has been done and is published on the Internet this fact has been proven hence the injection was invented.

    There is no proven evidence that babies have died in the womb after having the vaccine, what has been put on the Internet which I have read is a very few women who said days after the injection their baby dies, coincidence! I'm not sure, and none of these stories have a conclusion ie. when the dead fetus was medically examined was the vaccine blamed? I have never seen this.

    I also have had. Look at the up take of the vaccine since 2011 for pregnant women in the uk in 2011 just over 40% of the uk pregnant population took the vaccine, in 2012 64% of pregnant women took the vaccine.

    Yes the vaccine on the packaging does say 'do not use if pregnant' this is because no medical company will test on pregnant women, most drugs have never been tested on pregnant women, but the medical boards have looked at the fact that the vaccine has never killed an infant at two months old.

    Look at the case of the mmr jab, some doc decided to say it was unsafe, scared so many people, then people started blaming autism on the injection, saying their child was fine until that point. Then the drug was tested again and again no medical issues were ever found and the doc was struck off! Because of this we now have children being so ill for no reason but parents not researching enough and deciding to go with everyone else, just like a sheep!

    Last week 250 children in a Swansea school was struck down with measles some poor mites very seriously ill.

    Why would a vaccine kill a baby in the womb? It's not live, it causes your body to make antibodies, the same way the flu, pneumonia, rubella, measles, mumps, jab does. Yes the anti bodies pass through your body and the placenta so that if the baby once born comes into contact with whooping cough the immune system know how to fight the infection.

    Also if you become ill when pregnant with a cold or flu, tummy upset your body produces antibodies to fight infection, would you turn down antibiotics? Nope coz having an infection is more serious to the baby.

    So there you are, it's a personal choice, but I had to get he other side, the positive side out into the atmosphere. Plus my sister just had her baby and had the jab infact her whole nct class did, every baby is fine, alive and kicking :)

  • Hi deary, Yup I read your comments on this forum about this issue. And I was aware you would be going for it, also given your personal childhood experience.

    But honestly, I find medical interventions very un-natural. And I am keeping my research on , but somehow I am not and I dont feel convinced on the whooping cough issue. Ofcourse like all mothers the priority is to keep the baby safe. Infact since I found its a girl, I am being so cautious and have even cancelled all my gypsy plans for the next 2 years :)

  • Hiya, I found the story about the lady who baby died at 31 weeks, very sad, but again no post mortem, no conculsion!

    I'm the same as all expectnt mums I want the best safest thing for my child.

    Medical interventions,such as jabs, painkillers, antibiotics yeah they are not natural but they were invented for a reason, because in the history of child birth mothers, babies died for reasons we know now wouldn't mean death!

    I'm having a boy and I'm as cautious as the next person, girl or boy whats the difference both sexes are as vulnerable as another!

    Hospitals, people, places, including the air we breath contain crap and germs, we are all bound to get something even if we wash our hands and wear masks 24 hours aday!

    I'm pleased you ave a midwife family friend that will look after you and the baby after birth, coz again so many things need to be looked at and lo its good support for you, but this person is thuman and she too will carry germs, just like anyone you meet in life!

    Xx

  • Yes I am also very concerned about the protection of the baby during the time spent in the hospital, there its like a whole world is there. I am still deciding on it. its so important to have healthy start to the babies and such a challenging task too :)

  • If you can keep your baby inside for the first 40 days and not have much to do with the outside world then the risk are obviously greatly reduced....me on the other hand have 2 teenage children who are at a school with 2000 other pupils use public transport, and 2 small children who attend school and I will be having to take them and pick them up so on the whole my risks will be a lot higher..also baby is due end of oct so winter months my young ones are more prone to coughs cold etc...so don't think I have much choice I don't want to take the risk but am concerned as do we really know the effects..no we don't so a risk we have to take a chance on, when my eldest was born 16 years ago they had just introduced the vitamin k injection which I couldn't really research and was very aprehensive about it, but its given as routine now! hard work being a mum trying to make scary decisions for your child!

  • I had the vitamin K injection when I was born 35+ years ago...

  • Also just wondering as well Why can they not vaccinate the child as soon as they are born?

  • that is apparently because the babies dont respond to the vaccines this early - which makes me curious as to why would they respond to it when they are not even born ?

    And I can understand your situation, believe me, had I been in your place, my mind set would have been so different too. but at the moment I do know that I can keep the baby indoors and away from other kids (as there are no small kids in the family even). Although I am continuing my research as I am at my 23rd week and still have a lot of time :)

  • Largely via innate immunity, but there is a postulated short term humeral response.

  • Fascinating to read all of this. My midwife at no point has suggested anything about the whooping cough vaccination nor the flu vaccination (which I had as I'm asthmatic and let's face it flu sucks, with early pregnancy sickness in addition I can imagine it being a nightmare during pregnancy). I've certainly felt cautious about whether to take it.

    However, there is one other person apart from myself who has an input that is important and that is my fiance. Despite being nervous about it, (on account of reading that post from the poor woman who had her daughter miscarry the day after the jab which was frightening to read) I feel that perhaps I may do little one a disservice if I didn't do what is recommended to help her avoid major illness. Again I've read the experience of Skyblueboston who had it in infancy and DrFluffy who saw a baby die from something that could be prevented had the mother had the jab. After talking about it with my man (who incidentally would have been very angry with me if I didn't have it) and wondering if actually the majority of those who take the vaccine go on to have healthy happy babies and not being clear on whether the deaths post vaccine were indeed coincidental. With an air of nervousness I'm going to proceed with the vaccination. It is scary to take any medication/vaccination during pregnancy because not one of us really know what the impact me or may not be.

    It is purely a personal choice at the end of the day. I'm hoping with all my might that it is the right choice for me and my little one. I'll soon find out as I'm scheduled to have it this Thursday when I'll be 35 +7 weeks pregnant. Here begins the worry about what to give our kids for the best... sometimes I wonder if all the information out there can be counterproductive. I'm always worrying about something during this pregnancy!

  • I too will be a little nervous when I take the jab but I'm sure all will be fine. If it turned out it wasn't I will be the first person on tv with a campaign against!

    Also when I saw dr fluffy comment it just made me feel that my choice is right for me :)

    You know I have been on the Internet for hours looking a deaths in the womb related to vaccines, none not one, except one person assuming it was because of this!

    Also I was just having a think about back in the 60,s with the anti sickness drug, lots of babies has deformities, but strangely enough babies in the womb did not die! So in my mind if anything it would not kill, as by the stage between 28-35 weeks baby is fully formed, just a bit of weight gain and fine tuning is needed so in this respect it could not affect the babies development as practically finished.

    Any how the bigger picture is more important, that my little boy will not have scarred lungs and will not have breathing difficulties like me:)

  • true you two, and sometimes there is that gut feeling inside which just tells us to do or not to do something.

    I would keep posted of all the information I might get. I am sill looking at WHO website trying to figure if they have to say something about this vaccine.

    To me it feels, that baby and I would be better not taking this vaccine instead of taking it.

  • Gotta go with ur gut instinct, and like u said ur keep Ur baby away from the public so ur child would be very low risk...I feel a bit damned if I do damned If I don't, I know a midwife and will be asking her...and seeing my midwife Wed to see what she thinks

  • Right, now I'm finally home from work, an amazing quick google reveals pregnant women have been receiving pertussis vaccination on the continent (notably in France and Germany) for years, without any significant increase in perinatal mortality. Interestingly, it's also given in the US and has been or the last 18 months.

    How the UK HPA came to their advice (factual!); hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAw...

  • Thank you for taking the time to present people with the proper research on this topic.It frustrates me to think people wouldn't take these life saving vaccinations based on hearsay and vague speculation. I think it's really important people are able to make informed decisions.

    I had the whooping cough vaccine 4 weeks ago and everything is of course fine. All this false information about babies dying after the mother receiving it is going to have disastrous consequences if people do not take the injection.

  • And finally... Minutes of the meeting where the UK line on pertussis vaccination in pregnancy was developed:

    media.dh.gov.uk/network/261...

  • I still don't know - the only thing putting me off is that I have a history of multiple miscarriage and stillborn - kinda makes you cautious about everything, still have a while to decide yet. I'd def have it if I lived in a higher risk area, if I had other kids at nursery etc., if I worked in a hospital or school, if I wasn't planning to stay put in the house and garden for two months after a home birth........... my sister said she'd rather have her strong body filter the vaccine and create the antibodies first, which I thought was a sensible thing to say.

  • Very interesting reading you guys, I've been missing my vaccines as had a cold and had to move flu jab appiontment then stuck next to loads of I'll people in my local surgery due to late glucose tolerance test, so sat there for two hours, I don't like the scare mongrering either side of the fence, not on here but from midwives and tabloids, when I grew up I caught measles, German measles mumps, whooping cough, chicken pox, had ear infections,and the flu, plus two colds whilst pregnant. I plan to breast feed, but my issue is with do many vaccinations being loaded into each jab, would it not take up so much of baby's energy creating antibodies that they could interfere with the baby's development, how could we tell with an infant or a baby, you may as well jab a cat then ask it if that imparted its cognitive abilities. You will still only get a meow, but one jab at a time is not cost effective and no one wants an epidemic . Baby is also having to cope with its surroundings and a leaflet simply stating that a baby could handle 10,000 viruses at once albeit vaccines dose not instill me with the greatest of ease. 10,000. And it's still alive so that's ok, no I'll effects then, the thing is we can't ( and I hope wouldn't want to ) test on babys. But we kinda do because to start with each vaccine has its unknowns. I think it's too late for me to have my flu shot now. All any of us want is a clear answer, and to do the best to protect our babies.

  • Wow this is certainly a debate!

    I too had read about the lady who lost the baby at 31 weeks and that stuck with me bigtime!

    I had the whooping cough vaccine about 4 or 5 weeks ago I think it was and I was v nervous for the next couple of days and hypersensitive to little ones movements....but it's fine! It moves, it's grown and all is well (so far, so good, fingers crossed!)

    I hope you all make the right decisions for you & your babies and that all works out well for you in the end!

  • Dr. Fluffy, maybe you are to persistent (and right) but as I said this is my personal decision based on my personal circumstances. Here is another doctor friend of my mother has this to say about it (and I am copy pasting what she wrote to me, needless to say she is as experienced in childbirth as my age, she helped my mom deliver me) And she did do a lot of research on Pertussis Vaccine and if I WOULD NEED IT. Here is what she said

    "see, this difference occurs because of differences in population groups. Pertussis (whooping cough) is VERY VERY rare in the West but very very common in India and most of us have innate resistance to it, which is why in India we do NOT give the vaccine to pregnant women. In UK they do because the average women does not have immunity to it. Since you are an Indian, and perhaps you have recently migrated to UK, you should not take it, because (1) you don't need it as you have adequate immunity and (2) if you do take it, there is a possibility of severe reaction. In India we DO NOT give pertussis vaccine to children over 10 years, let alone pregnant women, because of this possibility. So, it is actually impossible for your child to "die because of whooping cough" before the first dose of the vaccine at 1 1/2 months. This is also the reason why the vaccine is not given until 1 1/2 months because the mothers immunity is passed on to the baby through the umbilical cord.

    In short, don't take it "

    Now Dr. Fluffy, what really disenchants me about NHS system apart from the long waiting time is the fact that they consider everything and everyone under the same blanket - people are different and people are not bodies - I nearly had a tonsil accident due to wrong prescription and telephonic diagnosis (needless to say how much I hate this whole system of telephonic diagnosis, and it leaves me always wondering if a person is in nearly fatal accident and calls NHS do they ask the same long list of questions including disclaimers? I only hope I never get to know!)

    Now given that I am from India with Asian decent and someone else is from Africa or Brazil or other parts of developing world, we are definitely different than the average UK mom - nevertheless our babies are as important. And given that NHS or other private practices in UK do not check the immunity level of the mother prior to giving the vaccine, I do not see why I should make myself and my baby a guinea pig of medicine.

    BTW you may want to read something other than .org.uk resources, so here is the WHO position paper on the vaccine who.int/wer/2010/wer8540.pdf (refer to page 395 and 396).

    I think this is a very informed piece for lot of mothers who would need more information about whooping cough.

    Honestly newspapers and privately funded research reports are not something which I would atleast blindly trust.

    About your position on marketing - may I ask if marketing is what must influence the informed decision making? :)

    And maybe you can tell the difference of medication in South Sudan and UK but if you think Indian Companies are not producing medicines and they are not logistically available than I would be very surprised. Probably than you are forgetting the role of CIPLA in cheap manufacturing of HIV drugs (that shook the entire world in 2000 and got GS. Kofi Anna his fame to Nobel award). Drugs are not the monopoly of west - nor is science :)

    Every pregnant women is different and every pregnant women MUST know their personal circumstances before they make a INFORMED decision.

    Sadly I think NHS is more imposing than informative (because they always have leaflets about things they want to promote, but not about simple things like what to do in event of minor accidental skin burns - than they would call you to the infirmary to wait for hours before you are diagnosed with a minor superficial skin burn, and in case you refuse to come, the voice on other end of the phone would threaten you :) funny! )

  • You are the one trying to push your opinion. See my first post: everyone needs to make an informed decision. Thus far, your comments have been purely anecdotal - an aunt who doesn't practice in the Uk and a post in a message forum!

    Sorry you have had such a bad ride with the NHS. The nice, free NHS. The evil NHS clearly trying to kill you and your child. Please stop scare mongering without basis. The point about medicines availability in other countries isn't about availability persay but about vulnerable, at risk populations being able to access them without means.

    If you think the NHS (who by the way follow WHO recommendations) are blindly trying to harm pregnant ladies - make a real stand and opt out. Don't use it. Pay for your care privately... And superficial burns should not be in A&E - such people who abuse A&E should have to contribute to the visit, as it keeps doctors and nurses from patients who are true emergencies and leaves patients faced with much longer waiting times - which can be the difference between life and death. If if 's not an emergency it has no place in the emergency department!

    Have you finished your assault on the NHS yet?

  • Well said, I can't believe some of the comments above.

    Yes you're entitled to your own opinion but dont scaremonger with little fact behind your thoughts. Very irresponsible!

  • well exactly my point, would be glad if NHS is giving information rather than forcing patients to make their way to A&E.

    I am not assaulting NHS - sorry if that is how it comes across. I am just not ready to trust it blindly.

    And about the FREE NHS - I wonder how it is done free (no really would like to talk to some of the MPs in the developing world to implicate the model) - I think its funded through the Tax money paid by likes of me and my husband (realized that my tuition fee to the University, helps fund so many activities around in UK - reasons we cant get rid of international students or migrants even if we hate them)

    As for the informed information I hope you have gone through the WHO position paper on Whooping cough if not, I would paste the link again here who.int/wer/2010/wer8540.pdf

    and as I said in my very first blog post - I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO GIVEN MY PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES

    And as I would like to share with other mothers too, please be informed and evaluate your own personal circumstances. Doctors are not Gods and Rule and legislation (especially those made in medical field follow the Rawls's principle of best of the least advantaged - a lot of us might not be in the mind of rule-framers when they are made)

    Please tell me and other mothers if there is something wrong with the WHO position paper on this - and that would surely add to our information base. But arguing with me just because you are a NHS supporter and I dont blindly trust it would be of no good use to any of us.

    once again, for all those who would like to know more about whooping cough and its position with pregnant women here is the link who.int/wer/2010/wer8540.pdf

    Please discuss your personal situations and positions with your responsible people before making a decision.

  • I just wanted say that I will be having the vaccine. My understanding is that it is being offered as there has been a marked rise in cases, both in adults & children.

    I had it myself last year (properly diagnosed) & let me tell you, it was so painful & distressing that I would never want my child or anyone else's to go through it. It also led to further respiratory problems. Even if I am immune now, I may not be by the time the baby cones along & I'm not willing to take the chance.

    I'm all for people making informed & personal choices, but you have to be very careful that you've got the facts right. I don't think it's fair to speculate that someone miscarried because if a jab. Pregnancy comes with risks & miscarriage & premature labour can happen at anytime for many reasons.

    Also, personally, I think it would be fair to say the women on this site want what is best for them & their baby, so please don't assume that they AREN'T making informed decisions about their care.

    You have right to your opinion, just be careful with the facts.

  • :) thanks for commenting.

    I am also not someone who would generally talk out of the window - ofcourse its one of the most important decision and all of us women are very keen on keeping the babies and families happy and healthy - my purpose was only to give other side of information and I think I did it by providing what the doctors told me and also by some authentic information from the links that I shared (I would not doubt the integrity of United Nations and its agencies on health care - especially after witnessing myself their role in conflict areas of the world myself)

    as I said earlier too, its my personal decision based on my personal circumstances and every pregnant women are different - even if they receive a standardized treatment :)

  • Hi Ritz21

    I guess I just feel your sources are a little "ifey". I have no problem with the WHO statement, except that it's dated October 2010 (which is when it was published, how long did it take to research & write?). They can't be expected to keep up with every single individual country's changing situation, especially when things change quickly, which is the case in the UK.

    As I mentioned, the recommendation to have this vaccine is new in response to a sharp rise in cases and although it hasn't been tested on pregnant women in the UK, a similar vaccine has been tested in the USA without showing any risk. And just because it hasn't been tested in pregnant women, doesn't mean it's dangerous. The risks have been weighed, they don't make these sorts of recommendations lightly.

    I was vaccinated as a child, but I still got the infection from my Aunt (who had a bout of it as a child), so just because you we're vaccinated or had it as a child, doesn't mean you'll still be immune. I am a normally very healthy adult, who looks after herself, but when I came into contact with it, I didn't have a chance of fighting it off. Also remember that in pregnancy, you're immunity to infection is lowered. If you got whooping cough whilst pregnant, the results could be devastating.

    The NHS is very clear about why they are reccomending this, what the risks are and how they have come to this recommendation. There's always a chance something could go wrong, even if its very small. If someone lost a baby because of the vaccine, its very sad & unfortunate. But even if this is true, you have mentioned one women (who's mother apparently has said this, not the mother herself) in the thousands that are receiving the vaccine. You must see that you are potentially taking a greater risk by not taking it? Your point is a bit "what if", but like I said you're welcome to your view, I just think you may be getting frightened over not very much. And potentially making other women nervous for no reason. I welcome a debate, but you have to be less personally emotive & more accurate in your facts.

    I've included the link to the NHS site on their view of the vaccine.

    nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy...

  • well I went through the minutes of meeting which Dr fluffy posted here as along with the NHS and lot of other papers and also the position in Scotland, as most of the resources were talking about England and Wales. And I still think I dont need it.

    The JVIC min. leading to this decision (equivalent of which in Scotland would mean a 6 month temporary program of vaccinating pregnant women starting October 2012), gives me an impression that its an evaluation to see if this program lead to drop in number of kids contracting whooping cough and they clearly said in para 11 and 12 that it does have a risk of kids developing immunity to the vaccine (or top-ups) at the later stage (which ofcourse is not something that I would want).

    The fact, that it is understudied, its not prescribed as 'safe' for pregnant woman (even if it does not say its unsafe) and is not used in majority of the world and is a temporary program in UK dont inspire confidence in me at least.

    Also, today during the discussion with my mid-wife on this issue, she did accepted that I would have a stronger innate immunity to whooping cough because of my decent - so I dont see a reason at all why I should have it.

You may also like...