How can you guarantee you're making enough milk for lo during day. I formula feed when he gets angry, frustrated & starts grabbing during bf

[Music1]

I've always struggled with breastfeeding from the start. I was ill in hospital following a c-section and kidney/ liver problems therefore unable to breastfeed. My lo did well taking to the bottle in the evenings and eventually by the end of the week he was bf during the day (1 week old). My lo is 2 months old, and has always mainly been bf on demand during the day and formula fed at night, as I couldn't keep up the demand, lack of sleep was making me tearful and I felt lo was using me as a dummy and we were falling asleep on each other. Now 2 months old, and I'm finding my boobs fill up at night (but I can't express using the pump as it's too noisy) and we had to send the other one we hired back due to cost. During the day, they seem empty. My lo will feed well in the morning when they are engorged or large and then during the day they seem to get smaller until mid afternoon when lo will get quite angry, frustrated and upset as if he can't get any milk from me any more and start kicking, and pulling my nipple in his mouth with anger pulling his head back. I can see the frustration in his eyes and as he starts to cry I give in and make a bottle of formula and he then drinks upto 90ml some days. I'm wondering what I've done wrong. To be honest, I struggle to eat well and regularly with his demands and snack a lot more during the day, small salad, Gluten free cereal and chocolate etc. It's exhausting. I'm wondering if offering the bottle was/ is a bad idea in the afternoon, or whether I've made a rod for myself and messed things up by bottle feeding him during evenings. I've been on tramadol for the last 4 days, so given up breastfeeding completely or expressing but would like to get more milk than I had before. I just don't know how. I'd feel sad if I had to completely stop as bless him, he's really taken to it, and I love my time with him but feel i'm totally inadequate and don't make enough for him. Any ideas on whether the bottle to top up is a good idea or what else can I do to ensure milk comes in during day instead of early hours. I've no idea what I'm making for him and it's worrying me.

[LauraJ85]

If you have Facebook join the group breast feeding support UK, it's really helpful and theres lots of ladies who should be able to help. Regards to pumping you could try a hakka/naturebond (aldi do one too) silicone pump. It basically catches the excess of the boob your not feeding on, this can help with engorement. Normally when baby fusses at the boob they are going through a growth spurt and upping your supply, it doesn't normally mean that you're not producing enough so I wouldn't worry about that. Lots of skin to skin is the best way to encourage your supply. My lb won't take a bottle but your milk should eventually regulate so I wouldn't have thought combi feeding would do any harm, plenty of woman do it. Breast feeding is hard please don't be so hard on yourself you're doing amazing xxx

[Music1 in reply to LauraJ85]

Thanks Lauj, I've never heard of Fussing or fusses. I assumed as I hadn't bf him for the last few days my supply was even lower and he was getting angry and frustrated. It's upsetting when they pull away, scratch and claw, and start crying etc. I was so worried I'm not producing enough as I don't bf at night and haven't been consistent with timings etc when we're out. I'm so lucky my lb will take a bottle, but he has always loved his milk even in hospital. I will try more skin to skin during the day if I can. I have a hakka equivalent which I tried using whilst he was feeding with varied success. He would sometimes kick it off as it sticks out while he lays across my body. It was so suprising to see how it worked when I did use the pump to express just one, and catch with the other. Thanks. I've nobody to really ask. All my friends for various reasons bottle fed and can't relate. I've said I wasn't producing enough during the day to my health worker, but she watched him latch, saw he had a yellow nappy, weighed him and said 'providing he's putting on weight that's fine'. I think maybe I'm worrying more than I should be. It is so much more difficult than I imagined, and I just hoped it would be a wonderful bonding thing, but when he's thrashing around at times, not knowing what it was just caused me more stress and anxiety wanting him to bottle feed more. Thanks for your reply and letting me know about FB and what it is called so I can do some research. x

[MissSaoPaulo]

I had difficulty breastfeeding at the start and have been giving formula as well as breastfeeding after my little girl was falling asleep on the breast all the time and wasn't gaining weight. It's a horrible feeling and I totally sympathise. But focus on the fact that our babies will still have the benefits of breast milk so don't beat yourself up about it and keep breastfeeding as much as you can with a little formula ready on standby in case he's still hungry.

I tried pumping while she was feeding, with her tucked under my arm like a rugby ball so she couldn't kick the pump away, and it was good in terms of milk production but you're left without a hand free which can be awkward if baby starts wriggling. Now I'm using the pump after she feeds to ensure both breasts are emptied fully and stimulate production. It's slowly increasing but we still need formula sometimes and that's ok. The important thing is she's putting on weight and is content.

Basically, stick with it and be kind to yourself!! And keep expressing even if baby can't take your milk because of the medication - if you're not emptying the breasts your body gets the message that it doesn't need to make as much milk and production will go down. The more you demand of it, gradually the message will get through that you need to produce more. And make sure you're drinking loads of water!! Good luck, you're doing a great job xxx

[Music1 in reply to MissSaoPaulo]

Sob, thank you. I feel like such a failure and I'm so low at the moment. My other half has been working most of the week and not offering to do any feeding in the evening as he is too tired to work. That means I often feel too tired during the day. I've noticed today how much lo has changed in 2 months. I'm not one to take photos but he's becoming a little man and I feel like I'm missing that from worrying so much, not sleeping and when he is awake, hoping he will sleep a little longer so I can get some more sleep or time for me to do things I haven't done. I feel awful about it. Thanks for explaining 'expressing'. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle and now with his kicking, scratching, pulling, screaming and everything else I feel like a rubbish mother. I was bottle feeding him in the park earlier and although I was trying to 'pace feed' him, he was gulping it so fast that he choked several times, when I burped him he threw up on my shoulder and the looks I was getting from other younger mothers who had obviously done a better job than me. When I asked "do you mind me asking did you bottle or breast feed' they said "breast" and I felt so rubbish that I couldn't even bottle feed him without almost choking him. I'm so sad like I can't do the simplist thing such as feed my little man. Yes, he is putting on weight but feeding time is always something he wants to go at like a 'bull in a china shop'. I know from expressing using the pump that my milk flow is slow, and if it's too fast (even though it says natural flow on the brand) he must be getting frustrated. I will drink more water. I will try using the pump and catcher thing after he feeds if I can stay awake long enough and hopefully he can keep himself entertained for 30 mins or so. When you're by yourself it's so hard. Thank you so much for your reply and suggestions. I don't want to give up just yet, but then when I see his behaviour 'fussy' like this evening I think I damaged him by having a few tramadol and feeding and that's caused it or something. Was beginning to think my milk was damaged, not making enough and I was useless to him. It's lack of sleep talking x

[MissSaoPaulo in reply to Music1]

My problem was almost the opposite. She would fall asleep and each feed would take forever with me poking and prodding her to wake up. I cried my eyes out when I was spending so much time feeding her and she still wasn't gaining weight. We have to be practical and do what works best for us and our babies. Now she's getting enough calories, I'm getting more sleep and so is my OH, so we're all happier as a result and she still gets breast milk more than 50% of the time so will still get the benefits. Find a solution that works for you and your family and DON'T feel guilty about it. We have to stop putting so much pressure on ourselves and enjoy this precious time - as you say, it goes by so fast. Good luck xxx

[Music1 in reply to MissSaoPaulo]

Sounds like me when we first started bf through the night. We started bottles as he wasn't putting on weight and midwife and health visitor kept visiting and wondering what to suggest etc. Thank you for your reply, sharing your experience etc, Things completely go out the window when I'm tired and I can't be rational or think when I'm upset and exhausted like this. Thank you for replying and writing to me. I appreciate it so much x

[Lizzielizzielizzie]

Strongly recommend finding your local la leche league and speaking to one of their leaders for advice x

[Music1 in reply to Lizzielizzielizzie]

Thanks I've never heard of them. Will totally google x

[pinkie93]

Everyone else has pretty much covered everything, some great advice here. All I can say is you really just need to relax and go with the flow, my lb is solely breastfed and he used to thrash about on the boob every evening, he'd be feeding for up to 5/6 hours! At first this stressed me out, then I just decided to settle down each evening with Netflix, bottles of water and lot of snacks. Now he doesn't do that anymore and I actually miss it, breastfeeding can be so lovely if you stop worrying about it. So many women think they're not producing enough, but this is rarely true. Lots of skin to skin, look up how to hand express, stay hydrated, take your vitamins, relax and all will be well.

[Music1 in reply to pinkie93]

Thanks pinkie93, I know, I have been obsessing with it. As I wasn't feeding from the start in hospital and having a tough time with pain I relied on the breast pump as I couldn't put my lb on my stomach. It started to become about "how much are you expressing". From there we hired the machine for over a month, and I would worry how much I produced on the pump, and compare how much he would drink from the bottle with formula. When I was bf at night I would sit there almost all night and we'd fall asleep on each other, to the point I could barely function next day. I've been snacking on so much chocolate, lucozade and water that it then worried me I've been having so much junk that it couldn't be good for him either... I'm going to take your advise. This morning I bf my little boy and he fell asleep on my lap whilst I watched a film on NF (wasn't great but I haven't really had any tv time for myself, I've been googling everything). I'm not going to obsess if I can help it. There has been some brilliant advice on here. I was so worried something was wrong with my milk or he'd got some dairy allergy or something from me. He spits up and is sick quite a bit at times, and now he's started (what I now know is being fussy) it just really upset me. Combined with lack of sleep and oh being away I was beginning to lose the plot. I know if I give up bf then I will miss the quality time together as you say. I looked at him the other day and after realizing he had grown out of some of my favourite sleepsuit things for him it made me sad, how quick it had crept up on me as I was obsessing about needing to sleep etc, and not noticing how quick time flies. Will keep you all posted. Thanks for listening and writing x

[claire16c in reply to Music1]

Some great advice above. Please don’t ever compare what you’ve pumped. Breast milk is totally different to formula. It’s much more nutrient dense and contains more calories

[pinkie93 in reply to Music1]

Well it sounds to me like you are doing really well, you have a healthy and growing baby

I can empathise about the hospital experience, the same happened to me in hospital after an emergency C-section. Luckily on day 3 I cried so much that mum came to the hospital and had a real go at all the mean midwives, she insisted I was not to use the breast pump. She told me I was doing brilliantly, which I was, now I'm telling you that you are doing brilliantly! xx

[Music1 in reply to pinkie93]

Thank you. What a lovely mum you have. Sadly my mum has passed away and it was me and my other half. He/ we didn't know any different, but after my little boy did latch one day the hospital then refused to give us those little ready feed bottles and told me to bf or use the pump. I was besides myself in so much pain and in tears. So much for the beautiful loving moments of being a mum. By day 5 a lady from physio who worked in the hospital said she was so sad that I was in constant pain and felt like I was being forced to do this or no milk etc, that she filled in some form that said I was entitled to milk and they should back off. I'm kind of lucky that now he can bf and use a bottle though. Thank you for your kind words. xx

[pinkie93 in reply to Music1]

I'm sorry to hear about your mum (BIG HUG), I'm glad that physio had your back. Far too many new mum's have hospital horror stories I really feel there needs to be some investigation done into these places. I still have flashbacks, every time I try to write down what happened I start to hyperventilate. But at least we have our beautiful babies xx

[claire16c]

You’ve had good advice above. Just a few other things. Engorged/full boobs are confused boobs they can over produce at the start. But that emptier feeling doesn’t mean you don’t have enough milk anymore. The more your baby feeds the more you make. If you latch him on your body will respond over time. Think of breasts as rivers and not lakes. They constantly produce

Nipples are the original dummy and babies love to sleep on mums. All sounds very normal! You can do this! X