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**Trigger warning** Suicidal Because Ugly

Well, that's the catchy headline, obviously there's a little more to it than this.

In short, I'm 26, male, 5 foot 10, about 165lbs in pretty reasonable shape. I'm fully employed, I have a bunch of wonderful friends, eat healthily and exercise regularly, and enjoy other hobbies. On paper, I should feel on top of the world, and yet all I can think about is killing myself.

I'm not attractive. And please, let's skip the "but nobody's ugly!" or "there's someone for everyone!" or "you're just not believing enough!" stuff (I get the last one a lot). At 26, I have never had a girlfriend, or any sort of relationship. I will sporadically get a date, and have had a few drunken one-night-stands, in all instances the other party is not interested in seeing me again.

I understand I am not the first male to ever have this problem, but statistically it's quite an anomaly. Most males have their first girlfriend around 13, or for late bloomers their college years, or even just early 20s. As I get closer to 30, with no woman ever being interested in me, the future is looking scary.

I've spent a lot of time online looking to see if there are others who faced this particular problem, but I can't find an exact match. A lot of men who post similar complaints are those who may be unemployed, or too socially anxious to talk to women, undertake no exercise or have no other hobbies/avenues of meeting new people. I do not have these particular problems. One such hobby I have is on the swing-dancing scene; a vibrant scene which has a favourable ratio of young women to men. I also go to regular "meetup" groups, where young people meet each other in a casual bar setting. I enjoy these meetups, the people are friendly, but I notice the single women ignoring me and being drawn to others.

What it chalks down to for me, is that if I have no belief that this situation will change, I fear I will end up taking my own life. My only goal in life is to be happy, and that's not going to happen in a world in which I'm unwanted. I have tried telling my friends this, hoping they may suggest something that could help me out, but unfortunately they do not believe me when I tell them. Like, really, they are convinced it "must" be something else. It must be that I'm not confident enough, I'm trying too hard, not trying hard enough, I'm too picky, not picky enough, must be a problem with my job, must be a problem with where I live, must be a problem with my childhood; nobody seems to believe me when I tell them in plainest English that being ugly is literally my only problem. And of course, how can people suggest solutions to a problem when fundamentally they don't believe the problem exists?

So, I'm not sure what I hope to achieve by posting this, only that there is some record somewhere online of this.

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I feel your pain, I used to date the most beautiful woman and married 2 beautiful women in the world. Now, as I turn 55 in December, I don't get even a look from the opposite sex. I grew my hair long, it goes down my back, I keep it in a ponytail, and I have a goatee. I lost 65lbs in 3 months, to 236, I look good, very firm, no loose skin, but man, I just can seem to attract them like I used to. it has been 14 years since I've been on a date or had a girlfriend, im figuring its god that is keeping me single for some purpose he has for me, and I need to be single to achieve this. You are very lonely, you must learn to live for your self, do everything for yourself. its all about you now, and one day, God will show you the right girl, and you will be ready for it.

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Ponytails are dated , now it's a man bun and that's on it's way out. A 55 year old should have a good well styled haircut. Start going for sophisticated . Pam

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I like men with ponytails dont listen to sweetiepye. People dont have to fit a certain agenda we are all different gbrickhouse.

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You are right of course. It's just that it brings to mind a man trying to look younger and usually has thinner hair and ends up looking desperate instead of younger. Women of a certain age do the same. Pam

Hi women tend to go for personality and not looks so if you are having problems getting a gf you need to look at this first. Some of the most physically ugly men have great personalities so have lots of dates.

I am female and had very bad teenage acne which has left me with deep pits and scars on my skin but I have had my fair share of affairs coz I have a good personality and still do. I am happy in my own skin which is very attractive in itself. I think generally men tend to go for looks more than women do and I have also had my fair share of 'ugly' jokes from men too which is nasty, hurtful and unnecessary.

Maybe too you are looking in the wrong areas? Or looking to try and get the 'hottest' girl instead of looking for women who want a long term relationship. I hope this has helped a bit. x

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I'm not debating that ugly guys have had girlfriends, my only problem is that I've never had a girlfriend, or even someone interested. I'm really not going for "The Hotties", I'm fairly open minded when it comes to women. I'm not necessarily looking for a long term relationship, to be fair, and I never said I was.

Fair enough but in your post you are saying you are ugly and blaming that for never having a gf. I am merely pointing out the ugly guys have gf's so that can't be the reason you haven't.

If you don't want a long term relationship I presume you just want to play the field then. Nothing wrong in that.

I'm looking for something inbetween. I've never had a relationship, so going 0-100MPH in finding 'The One' feels a little scary. I missed out on the cute "holding hands at the mall" phase of relationships that teenagers go through. So whilst I'm not looking for one-night-stands per se, just casual dating would be nice, right?

Well that's up to you and I hope you find what you are looking for.

Hi i can really feel your pain. Im a 41 year old woman and never been on a date. I an living alone with mytwo very adorable cats. I work part time but am looking for extra work to boost myhours . My diagnosis is paranoid schizophrenia and deoression and anxiety. I dont have any friends, well, i never have done. I would like to get to know you a little more. Even tho your 9 years younger but i think your a lovely guy from what i have read. I livein london. I think its just that the universe just wants you to hold on a little until you meet miss right. If you have too many unmeaningful relationships you might not fully appreciate her when the time is right to finally meet her. So just food for thought...hope to hear from you soon...

P.s just registered on site 6 minutes ago and read you post first. So i think universe must be working its magic...

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MagpiePooch, just wanted to say you sound like a lovely lady. I really hope you meet someone nice as you deserve it. x

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Hi sorry misread your age ...but no worries....

It is true that the introverts have more problems making friends, maybe getting dates, and so on. Being a young person in their teens and twenties find it particularly difficult. This is an age where many are still superficial in their outlook. The thirties bring a new perspective on life. In doing so, much more likely to value things of importance. For instance, what kind of character one might have, rather than how one might look. that being said, sometimes, getting a new haircut, designed for your own facial shape often brings wonders. Adopting a new clothing style helps, too. Just some of my own ideas. Hope you find them useful.

P.S. There are plenty of girls who feel like you feel. Look for them. Many are shy, so you may need to initiate conversation. Read up on how to start conversations, and practice in front of the mirror. Just ideas that may help.

Totally not an introvert, but thanks for asking. Have no problems with conversation.

PPS, I have lived a long life, and I have yet to see an ugly person.

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I believe you, if you think you are ugly you might just as well be ugly. I think your problem is your personality which seems pretty bland and self absorbed. Humor, self depreciation, kindness, a sense of wonder and curiosity makes a man much more desirable than a pretty face. If you are looking for women that are mostly pretty faces then you are missing out again. Smart attractive women will notice your character and be intrigued . Work on something besides your lack of looks and see what happens. I'll tell you something else: saying you are so ugly you'll commit suicide (which I don't believe for a minute) is tasteless and self serving, and speaks to your character. Pam

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Well, when writing a summary of one's personal problems, I guess it's easy to come off as self-absorbed! I assure you that's not the case.

And yes, generally the thoughts towards suicide are just an accurate depiction of how I'm feeling right now, "tasteless" or not, I'm nothing but honest. I'm not saying with certainty that I will, but it's a feeling that's been growing significantly, and absent change I can only see going one way.

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You’re going to get a very honest answer from me, maybe also because I’m in my 3rd week of my menstrual cycle..sorry tmi, but I really get deep into my thoughts around this time. Also I was really convicted to reply.

My first boyfriend was not good looking...those were my first impressions. But he always made me laugh and we never ran out of things to tell each other and the more we became good friends the more his physical features grew on me. My family and friends even said I could do better. Anyway we didn’t last bc he was too much of a child for me and also after 3 yrs of dating I moved out of state and the long distance just wasn’t working for us.

I always believed that personality was a bigger factor of attractiveness and as I got older, I began to value character over personality. It depends what type of woman you want to attract and don’t just say any woman would make you happy. You may believe that you are ugly, but perhaps your attitude about yourself is rubbing off on people, particularly women. So even though you think you’re ugly, you must have an idea of what type of woman you’d like to be with. Whatever those qualities are that you want in a partner, you must make sure you yourself are practicing them. Like attracts like, not necessarily ugly attracts ugly, but more so certain characteristics attracts the same characteristics. Personalities attracts the same personality type but personality alone will not be enough to keep 2 people together for the long run.

Let me ask you this....where do you put your confidence in? God has you exactly where He wants you because He loves so much to give you a lot of time to work on yourself and really get specific with the qualities you want in a woman. Have you ever tried praying for her? If it’s self-confidence you want more of, placing it in God is your best move. Sure you’ll find confidence in other things, but do those things build your integrity/character? When your hope and trust is placed in your Creator, your confidence becomes a firm faith, and you’ll be more positive and optimistic about where you’re headed in life, which means your worries and anxieties lessen, you gain more focus, and become more aware of the opportunities around you. Confidence says a lot about a person’s worth and without knowing your worth, who is going to believe you?

I don’t know if you’re a Christian or not, but maybe you needed to hear this, I mean read this....it doesn’t matter what your standard of ugly is, but try and approach this a different way than before since nothing has worked. I’m saying take the focus off yourself and put it on God. It’s not always about us. You know church is a great way to get to know women.

This answer might not have been what you were expecting, but hey it’s a forum. I have a blog that integrates faith and mental health/emotional well-being on Tumblr @godfirstgodalways and I get all sorts of questions that mainly deal with struggles beginning in the mind. Even though I don’t know you, I will be praying for you. :)

I was a lost girl from one relationship to the next not really knowing what I wanted in life until I got serious with praying for the guy I’m with now. I loved him so much even before I met him. It’s my longest, most mature, loving, and practical relationship I’ve ever been in. Prayers work, God bless you!

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

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if god could fix us....there would be no need for this site. Not everyone is a Christian here, some are Buddhists, Jews, atheists.....so....respect that....don't exclude other members by dominating this site with only one faith. PM is a great place to discuss politics or religious beliefs and then no one feels excluded. Peace, love and kindness....

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I love this challenge! I could tell it’s going to become more of a devotional, so thank you! :) If God could fix you, you would never strive for progress. If God could fix you, you would not need the support of loved ones whom He purposely put in your life. If God could fix you, you would become the most righteous human being. The kind of mental health help I support is nowhere near striving to become perfect. That would actually lead to more stress if that were the case. The kind of mental health support I promote is not God fixing you but God teaching you how to find more mental stability in Him. I promote progress (not perfection) by being a bridge of understanding oneself and their feelings through a healthy relationship with the One responsible for creation. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction (Proverbs 1:7). Learn to fear the LORD bc with it comes wisdom for life and bc it’s knowledge and wisdom you’ll get, He is the ultimate mental health therapist/doctor/guide you will ever need. If you don’t fear Him many things will terrify you letting them take control of your thoughts and feelings. Sites like this exist because God wills it for people to fellowship, church is not the only place to fellowship, more and more people find it hard to open up about their mental struggles in church bc for some reason there is a stigma around it. The internet has become a place where others find support of all kinds and I am here to speak the truth, and if only 1 out of 100 will be blessed then so be it. You shouldn’t let it bother you, I won’t be surprised if there will be other people speaking about their religion. Like you said not everyone is Christian, so for those who aren’t, if they want to speak their truth, they are welcome to. I don’t exclude any other religion. If anyone wants to step up, that would actually be great for my spiritual growth bc this is a challenge I am liking. I’m just like the few others who’ve mentioned Christianity here in one way or another. As far as I know I haven’t read from any other religion, me excluding other religions as it appears to you is not solely on me as you make it sound. I find spiritual growth when I help others, and if it doesn’t help you bc you don’t accept/agree then that’s not my problem. But I would love more challenges bc that would just help my growth more. Be blessed! <3

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Amen ! God lives outside of time, our human brains don't comprehend that, we see just what's in front of us. In His time all will be made right but bc of the Fall when humans chose satan over Him , we have all this suffering. the sad truth is, that if someone didn't have any problems, if all was well, and the person is rich, beautiful successful talented, etc. the human nature tendency is to swell up with pride, just indulge in pleasures, "eat drink be merry"- it's unlikely he/she would think of the needy or poor if pain never touches his own life. God is in His Mercy giving us the chance and time to choose Him over the devil, giving all of us many many chances in His extraordinary patience (i'd have shut the world down long ago seeing the evil humans do)- but He is patient hoping people choose Him, knowing in the end the devil will be defeated. He's just letting it play out in the meantime, He does not interfere with our free will- it hurts Him when people hurt each other- but His Grace is there , for all who seek it. It is our own fault that , the tendency would be to not even seek Him, if all was going great. i know people with great blessed lives that don't give God a 2nd thought, to thank Him, which hurts me, but i know if tragedy ever strikes, they'll probably question Him then

Hi SpoonySpoon i have so much to say on this but I'm tired now and will just touch on some key points . Your point is (copy and paste of your post)- "nobody seems to believe me when I tell them in plainest English that being ugly is literally my only problem. And of course, how can people suggest solutions to a problem when fundamentally they don't believe the problem exists?"

But it's not "literally your only problem"-Your problem is that you are not content without a mate. I recently went to see a traveling exhibit on Mother Theresa's life- what a glorious example of someone who lived life on Earth the best way a human can. Totally selfless- all about what she could give to the poor, the sick, the dying; she did nothing for her own gain or desires. And she is not physically beautiful. From birth to death she never had a boyfriend, she never married, she wasn't physically attractive- yet she had joy and fulfillment. She is an extreme example- but there are many like her who find contentment without a spouse, and without good looks.

i have in the past written long replies to people with similar posts, particularly to one young woman here who was in much pain over "looking like a monster" and i replied to her with my story of how when i was around her age (21) i looked in the mirror one day and was so repulsed at my disgusting face and body, that i beat myself with a belt til i had welts on my back and shoulders. Now i'm almost 46 and lonely and scared and heartbroken that my dream of having a husband didn't come true. So BELIEVE me i know the full depth of this suffering and have lived it for decades and have attempted suicide in my past. Even after decades of counseling i still cry at how ugly i look, so sad at what i see in the mirror. So I'm not saying this glibly- it applies to me too--but you know what-- IF YOU GO FOR UGLY WOMEN, YOU WON"T HAVE A PROBLEM. Just like i wouldn't be alone if i went for ugly men. i can admit that to myself. We have to realize that part of our problem is that we are shallow in a way. i can look at myself honestly, and work on my healing, bc I have faith in Jesus. That was one among the many good suggestions in people's replies to you here- turn to God who loves you , who finds you beautiful. I am human with human desires but i also am aware that my focus on how ugly i look and the TRUE pain i feel over this, on a spiritual level can become a sin of vanity. For these are not the things that matter in life. Jesus was not physically attractive - Isaiah 53:2 "He had no majestic bearing to catch our eye, no beauty to draw us to him." Yet He is the Savior of us all . Countless Hollywood marriages fail, and those are the most beautiful people on Earth. Love is based on much deeper values- i know this logically yet , i choose to focus a lot still on the superficial- looks- my looks- how a guy looks, etc. but i know i've got to look at things differently. At the very least , even if you can't change how you are, just like i'm finding it very hard to change how i am-- admit, as i do, that you are approaching the search for a mate, in a shallow way. You could solve the loneliness by going for an ugly woman and choose to look at her inner beauty. You could also learn to find contentment in singleness, as i am working towards that goal for myself. Either way- being ugly is not "literally your only problem". Blessings and prayers for your healing

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I really meant what I said when I said "literally my only problem", I wasn't looking for you to second-guess me. My problem is NOT that I'm discontent without a mate, it's that women find me unattractive, you know, that thing that I said. Literally, that's the only thing wrong, I'm content with my job, where I live, my friends etc.

You're assuming that I'm waiting for the Hot Cheerleader to jump into my lap and... that's really not the case. I'm fairly open minded when it comes to women, and I'm not really looking for "The One" as it is, but thanks for trying.

Hi SpoonySpoon your reply only proved my point, you're talking in circles-however you want to word it . I said - "without a mate", you say - "women find you unattractive"; to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to. Point is--IN AND OF ITSELF, UGLINESS IS NOT A PROBLEM. It's a problem to YOU bc you want a woman/women to INTERACT with - you don't just want them to find you attractive so they can talk among themselves of how handsome you are or to write a book about you. You want them to CONNECT with you. My point is that if you were content ALONE, without a mate, or sex, or whatever it is that you seek in women-- then you wouldn't care that you're ugly.The ONLY reason your looks matter to you- just like the only reason my looks matter to me- is bc we want to attract the opposite sex. Why else would you care that women find you unattractive, except bc you want to be with them? I didn't second-guess- i followed your train of thought. You're NOT HAPPY ALONE, without a woman/women in your life , for whatever. There was a woman here on your post, Magpie- who expressed interest in getting to know you- and you didn't even respond to her. You kept on writing that you're unwanted even after one woman here expressed she wants to get to know you! And if you're just looking for sex, which still goes under the category of "mate" (by "mate" i mean- you want connection with the opposite sex)-- well, that along with your ignoring Magpie here- confirms my initial suspicion, that you are probably somewhat shallow (which i admit i have shallowness in myself). And for sure shallowness leads to emptiness and misery. Your looks matter to you, bc you want to attract women to be WITH them. And i merely pointed out that there are people on earth who either have found contentment without any romance /sex in their life- in other words IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE HAPPY WITHOUT EVER ATTRACTING A SINGLE PERSON IN A SEXUAL/ROMANTIC WAY- like Mother Teresa--or there are people who find love without looks being a factor. And i know your pain- this is a site where we can all relate to each others' pain- so at least you can know that others, not just you , not just me- do suffer at being ugly.

At first i didn't have enough info to go on, about whether to agree with "Sweetiepye" who mentioned you being "self-absorbed". And generally i'm not a "tough love" person- i usually am very soft and gentle in my responses to people's pain here. But, now that i've seen your responses to people's comments , i see you are indeed very narrowly focused on one superficial self-serving aspect of life, so it might do you good to volunteer at something like for the disabled/disfigured, so you can see others who are worse off, or even feeding the homeless. You'll see some maimed people there too, some missing limbs, etc. I continue to pray relief of pain for you, which now looks like it might best come from looking outside of yourself and helping those who are in worse pain. Now that i've read in your responses, that you are on those dating "swipe left/right" sites- which are very shallow-- i have a suspicion you might be a product of this bad culture of porn- but that's a whole other topic. i just know there's a lot of men on porn, and it is horrible for the brain. No doubt it can cause depression and all sorts of problems. Anyway, there's more to life than sex. Whether i'm wrong or right about you specifically, i daily in my prayers, pray for porn to be eradicated , that all who participate or watch, would stop. It's all connected to this swipe left/right culture where people are commodities, creating both low self-esteem in people like you who are not in high demand , and shallowness in all of us bc we can keep shopping for better when people are reduced to objects whose value is based on their looks. Blessings

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Woah, okay there. Firstly, I'm not on a mental health support group to pick up chicks, and whilst I've tried to reply to the majority of people here, I have missed a couple, and for that crime I'm being branded as "shallow"? Because I'm not pursuing any female online who vaguely shows an interest in me, whom I know nothing about, most likely from another country? I mean if that's the bar, then aren't we all a little shallow?

But really, I don't believe myself to be a shallow person. When I look at the women I've known and asked out, there's very little thread to connect them, all different shapes, sizes, personalities. I'm a social person and that makes it easy to click.

See, you describe Tinder as "porn culture" and I think that's completely wrong. The Tinder system is pure, it's an attractiveness poll that's untainted by wealth, politics, religion, nationality, class, invisible handicaps, shy, confident, all of those things. It's an Attractiveness Weather-stick and it CANNOT be fooled. It's easy just to tell a friend that they're totally hot, but data is data, and the free market sets the demand.

SpoonySpoon i hope ur at least now somewhat on the same page, that you can admit, it's not the ugliness itself- its that you are unattractive to WOMEN. Since this ALONE makes you feel so bad that you are suicidal-(and i'm not encouraging that)- you have 3 options before you. 1. Forget about Tinder which only will make you feel worse every time someone swipes left to you- and try to meet women in other ways (not bars either)-- non-shallow ways such as volunteering at homeless shelter or for disabled where you're more likely to meet women who are not going for looks but will be attracted by your love for those who suffer. Funny you used the words "market" and "Demand" , and i used the words "shopping" and "commodities"- if you were able to get thru my long previous response. The comparison to porn comes bc , in both, people are reduced to OBJECTS. Can you not see how your own use of words "market" and "demand"is so dehumanizing? Porn culture/shopping for people- whatever one labels it- it's VERY depressing viewpoint. 2. Forget about women , PERIOD, and find happiness in the many other areas of life where one can find joy (i mentioned Mother Teresa who never had any kind of romance but there are other examples not as extreme- of people who find fulfillment in life alone) This 2nd option is what many here are trying to advise you to do- find joy in other ways. or 3. Kill yourself.

i personally have tried # 3 many years ago . But now i'm on #1 and #2- i'm off all dating sites now bc yes that just makes people in our position feel worse. i've been doing volunteer work, exploring my new home state of CO - the mountains, museums aquarium ,zoo etc. Because the only other option , if i can't find some contentment in life alone- is to feel suicidal. Blessings and prayers

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I hate to say this, but the world of dating does boil down to "supply and demand", another shopping based term. But really, ask any evolutionary biologist worth their salt, and they'll tell you exactly the same thing. A first date is like a job interview, you're literally "selling" yourself to the other person, what you bring to the table. I'm sorry you don't like it, and that we should all aspire to be more like Mother Theresa, but that's not the world we live in.

I'm literally not interested in aspiring to Sainthood in order to fill the void that I know it can never fill. Mother Theresa didn't do what she did because she couldn't get a guy, she did it because she wanted to, and that's the difference. Can you find me an example of a person who lived a happy life, outside of monks/nuns and vows of celibacy?

At least you've got a bit of a sense of humour SpoonySpoon as this reply did make me laugh!

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HI SpoonySpoon i know i get wordy so my point gets missed at times. i'll just re-state it succinctly, with a correction. You say that this one thing- being ugly and therefore not attracting women- makes you want to kill yourself. My correction is, there's 4 options before you (not just 3 as i'd said) 1. Look elsewhere bc the "swipe left" thing is getting you nowhere. Nick Vujicic -google him- is a man born with no arms or legs yet has a wife. If you refuse to believe there are people out there who are not superficial/shallow- and there's other ways to meet people of substance, like volunteering to help poor, etc, then just forget about option 1 bc i can't convince you. just do option 2: keep believing that what you see of life, is all there is- swipe left/right mentality; stick with all your expert data, Remain in shallow world with shallow people and stay in the same cycle forever. 3. Forget about women and find other things to enjoy in life, without them. if you can't muster the ability to do #1 or "3- you're just left with #2 - stay in same cycle, or last option , #4: Kill yourself. Going by all that you say, i don't see anything but these 4 options for you. You just have to choose. I pray for you and all on this site, daily- i truly mean this. Blessings

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Love this. Love Nick Vujicic. :)

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Hi grLeigh23 i saw in your comments , about your blog or something- I will check that out sometime when i have a chance! It is hard to contain the truth, this truth of Jesus that we know, it hurts me that some are offended by His Name, when, He can so help all this- He comforts us in the pain of this world that values things that don't matter ! We don't take any of it with us when we leave- looks, money, career- etc. The things that matter are what we take, and developing THESE things ,our virtue, integrity, growing in love for the poor and needy- and taking off our focus on the material- can help alleviate much suffering. If i didn't believe, i'd have killed myself a long time ago, bc yes if one doesn't have faith in God and Heaven, then being ugly/ poor/sick/disabled has no point; there's no reason to stay here, if this world is all there is. I can't fathom where else one could find comfort in this cruel world, except to realize it's not the real one, that this world is merely a SHADOW of the LIFE that we will know one day, by first knowing HIM. Blessings !

update- i just looked at your blog- after i'd written this- i was born in Philippines too! but grew up here mostly . We should talk! I'm in CO, where are you?

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Woah, oh cool! :) So glad to come across like-minded people on here. I’m from Vegas, Sin City :) but I’ll always be an LA girl. Thanks for checking it out! Look out for my message to you sometime today. ☺️❤️

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grLeigh23 My stepmom lives in Vegas. She used to live in L.A., actually so did i a long time ago. But i have not ever visited her since she's retired to Vegas. maybe one day if i visit her, i'll come see you !! i've never seen so many comments as i have on this one post. It's gone kind of haywire huh?lol. so I'll continue with you on my private messages here now :) <3

I can kind of get this because I truly think I’m so ugly, but honestly rn I wonder if you should look for happiness in relationships or if you should just try and find happiness by yourself first cuz I’ve found people are truly attracted to vibes and if you put off the vibe that you need them for happiness they won’t like it (this is just something I’ve learned and my therapist has pointed out before)

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The only thing I want in life is to be happy, and that doesn't happen in a world in which I'm not wanted, so as much as it's easy to say, I may as well give up if it's not happening.

I mean you said you have friends right? So you’re clearly wanted, I know how hard this is, I get it trust me, but honestly at the end of the day all you can change is your self, so if you work on yourself and love your personality and what you bring to the world, you will attract that honestly and truly

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I feel your pain, but all I say to myself is everyone’s timeline is different and when it’s the right time it will happen, and ugliness is just a matter of perception, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I say that but also think I’m ugly. Anyways just don’t give up, your very young and your life sounds amazing, life isn’t only about relationships, explore the world by travelling and you will meet so many lovely people.

Ps. I’m 27 female and never been in a relationship because of my looks, I have acne spots scars and uneven face, but then I’m quite shy too and never know what to say when I meet people.

I really don't give a damn about travelling, the only thing I want is to be happy, and that doesn't happen in a world in which I'm not wanted.

Hi I had very severe acne as a teenager and was left with deep pitts and scarring on my skin but I have had bf's and relationships but it is a matter of believing you are attractive whether you are or not. I knew my personality was attractive but also made sure I looked as good as possible ie my hair was clean, I put make up on and tried to hide the marks on my skin, and dressed well and was clean. Men like women who take care of themselves and have a big smile and for many that's enough to fancy them. Lots of course are shallow and I have had some very hurtful nasty comments because of my skin, but then do I want a relationship with a shallow man when the only thing he cares about is a decoration on his arm?

My advice is to get yourself out there as much as possible and meet men that way. Just treat them as you would any female friend and laugh and talk with them. They are not a separate species (though sometimes I'm not sure) and I am sure you will find one whom you like and the feelings are returned. x

Im going to be blunt with you here, because 1. I feel like you need it and 2. I feel like thats what your asking for.

I would say im an attractive woman. My last boyfriend was not (to others and apon 1st meeting him to me also) when i first met... lets call him John i didnt think he was attractive and to be honest thought he was a bit of an idiot. He asked for my number with in 5 minutes of meeting me ( which i dont recommend doing btw lol ) i scoffed at him and said no. Me and my friend decided to leave the pub shortly after that, when his younger more attractive friend chased me down and asked for my number. Long story short i gave him it and on the next weekend he had text me asking me and my friend if we were interested in going to a party with them. We went and johns friend was funny charming but john himself was still so confident he didnt care that i had knocked him back he just wanted to chat to me about normal things, throwing just enough complements to make sure i still knew he was interested. Me and john went on to have a 10 year relationship and to this day i still find him the most attractive man in the room despite what i used to think or even what my friends still think.

So my point to you which im going to be very blunt is, your not ugly, your game is sh*t !!!

John had me rapped round his finger for 10 years because his game was on point. Iv never had a man before or since then that made me feel like he did. Getting a girls interest is nothing about looks, though its very important to be well put together, its about how you make her feel when you talk to her. Sounds to me that you need to find your own groove and practice it. Your going to get a lot of knock backs because your practicing.... but it just takes one.

I will also leave you with this. Johns other friend had terrible game with the lady's. One day he walked up to a girl and said your the most beautiful girl that iv ever seen and i think you might be the one. They have 2 kids now and are engaged to be married. Would that line have worked on me, hell no ! But it worked on her 😂 dating is complicated but its the working it out that's the fun part. Stop worrying so much about it and just let it happen. Im sure then you'll find much more success.

Good luck.

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I'm not going to pretend my "game" is amazing, but I'm asking how I'm expected to get "game" when the door is closed on me instantly for being ugly. I feel relaxed around women, don't act too desperate, but apparently when 100% of women swipe left to photos of me it's because my "game" is weak?

You've missed the point of me telling you my story. The point was its not how you look thats important its how you make her feel. If your game isn't good that means your not making good connections meaning she won't connect you to any feelings not just attraction. Go people watch and you'll see lots of guys punching above their weight as the saying goes, or vice versa. What im trying to say to you is you need to stop concerning yourself with appearance and just start off slow. Why dont you try get some friends who are girls. It would take the pressure off you, give you a bit practice and then maybe they could give you some perspective or advice as they will know you personally ?

I wouldn't put your hopes on dating apps they aren't great places to meet nice people. They apps are 100% based on looks so if your not feeling very attractive it doesn't make sense to start there.

On another note, people will feel your anxiety about the topic so the more you relax about it and just let it flow the more you might notice a difference. I certainly dont think its worth hurting yourself over. Its ok to need a bit guidance, its ok not to succeed right away. Make your own rules.

I really hope this helped you a little and i hope you find what your looking for. ☺

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Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm sure a lot of ugly guys have gotten married etc, but that doesn't seem to affect my situation at all. I understand we don't know each other, and I'm fine answering any questions, but for the record I do have many female friends, they're fantastic people whom I feel relaxed around, and neither of us have feelings for the other. Please read my initial post again carefully; my issue isn't that I feel shy around women, my problem is that women are not attracted to me.

Again, it's not an anxiety, I genuinely do feel relaxed talking to anyone really. Women online say no at the very sight of me, regardless of "feelings" or anything else, so right there I know I'm not attractive. Like, empirically measured data, but when I say this all I get is "Oh no! You just have to BELIEVE HARDER!" when the poll says blatantly otherwise.

Hello Spoony spoon,

I would like to add my welcome to this very supportive community. As you have begun to see folks here are very willing to come alongside each other with helpful advice drawn from personal experience.

I would like to just make you aware that as you have said that you are feeling suicidal or at risk of self-harm, please will you put this prefix in your post title: **Trigger warning** (which I have added for you on this occasion). This flags up to other users who may be feeling very vulnerable at this moment in time, not to open your post. However, it is not a carte blanc to say whatever we like without due consideration for the impact our words have. Please read through carefully the community guidelines and T & C's, as they contain important information on the example, what is acceptable content in posts, how to respect each other and not cause any harm to each other. Also, it clearly states that this an anonymous peer to peer support forum and the views expressed by the members are their own, but we are no substitute for professional medical advice.

In the light of what you have said in your post, I would urge you to have a chat with your doctor and maybe ask for a referral to a mental health practitioner, as talking therapies may well be very helpful for you to address some of the difficulties you are experiencing.

Do familiarise yourself with the website and check out the Pinned Post section at our free downloadable mental health guides and our international crisis support helplines.

Keep in touch!

Best wishes,

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Hi I note that you have deleted a couple of responses here based on the religious issue so can you give us some guidance about religious people trying to convert others to their own brand of religion please MAS Nurse? I understand from HU's terms that this site is for everyone regardless of their religion or whether they are non believers like me. I have seen several replies on here telling us to believe in God, giving us bible lessons and even preaching at us! I have no problem with people saying their own religion helps them etc. but telling others to believe is a no no as far as I am concerned (I am a non believer) and it embarrasses and alarms me to be told this and that they are praying for us. We are then told he is the Saviour of us all - well pardon my French but to me this is a load of old b....... and if it is ok for religious folk to do this then I presume it's ok for me, as a non believer, to put my point of view as well?

Is this site for believers in Christianity only? If it is then fine I will withdraw and I am pretty sure others like me will too. I do not come in here to be preached at or told to believe in a mythical being and if this is a trigger for me it must be for others too.

Therefore can you please advise us on this as I do not want to be on a Christian site and I will then consider my options. Thank you. x

I was abused by religious fanatics....and my own beliefs in politics and religion I don't express here as it may offend someone. I don't need to be preached to, or converted. I just need to feel safe from dogma and politics to talk about my depression and issues with emotional abandonment. I am glad you have posted this, thank you.

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Hey Spoony ya know what? I'm going on 53 years old, ugly as hell, never had a girlfriend, not even a ladyfriend for well over 40 years. I was so obsessed with having a girlfriend and pleaded with God to give me one. Never happened. Sure I had some run ins with

"might have beens", and had a goodtime in the journey, but nope, never happened. One day though, someone did come into my life, and though we aren't boyfriend/girlfriend material, we have spent some lovely moments together...all with absolutely NO sex involved! Now you got a good thing going: You work out and have a job.

I noticed that you said you "had friends", that's great start right there! You obviously are not "unwanted" if you have friends that you are able to hang out with, or call for help. You're outgoing that's for sure!

The right woman will come to you, but you have to be content enough with yourself so that your contentment will "shine through" your "ugliness" If you focus on your looks for too much, then you won't see Ms. Right when she is right in front of you.

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I'm very grateful for the friends that I have, but ultimately they go home to their spouses etc. I'm not looking for "The Right Woman", and I never said I was, I'm just looking to be found attractive, and coming up short each time.

Hi SpoonySpoon

Good name to start with. Going by your comments, you sound a smashing guy to me. Just believe in yourself and stop putting yourself down. You sound very intelligent and not stupid like some men. I think you have everything going for you, but just do not believe in yourself. If you think you are good (and you are) - others will think the same. Honestly, it does happen this way. Try it. Stop all these negative thoughts and think good thoughts about yourself and you will attract good thoughts from others. It will hapen SpoonySpoon. Believe me.

God Bless you.

Marguerite9

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Hiya spooky I’ve just joined well late l.nite, I av same sort v feelings u seem to b explaining, no 1 takes our real hurt for real. Sad really hopefully they never feel this way keep at it hun sure ull b fine x

Almost everyone on this site experiences pain of some kind, but we choose to focus on the positive and what you can do to change your life. A negative approach keeps you in the same place with no control over your situation.

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Ok, so you're ugly. As someone else suggested go for someone "in your league". If you are ugly go for what you consider an ugly girl. What what makes someone ugly? Severely obese? (you could do something about this) Extremely non symmetric features? (that doesn't matter) Greasy hair? ( wash it and have it cut in a proper style) Smelly clothes and body due to severe mental health problem ( get help from a support service to tidy yourself up) Pock marks? (yes they are unattractive but you can hide them and treat them) Tattoos on your scalp? (personally I don't like this but if you have had that done then presumably you like it and find a girl who loves tatoos too) Burnt face through an acid attack? ( It would be harder but in the end no-one would judge you on that) Missing limbs? (yes it would make things harder but by no means impossible) ; a mental health problem such as severe clinical depression ( which it sounds like you have) , bipolar or paranoid schizophrenia (yes this is a barrier but it is not impossible to find someone. You have to accept your mental health problem as best you can and get help for it (drugs, therapy) then introduce it to someone when they are ready to hear it; not straightaway . If you have a learning disability again it could be harder but people find each other. Cancer, chemo?, a machine that helps you breath? or not able to use your voice so have a synthesised voice? Paraplegic? Some people find disablities like this "ugly"but you just have to be as honest as possible with them about the problem and maybe join a disablity dating site where people are dealing with similar issues.

In any case It doesn't sound like you have a physical disability as I described.

I personally think that your mental health problem is your biggest issue right now and your biggest barrier to finding someone. Feeling suicidal is a serious mental health problem and one which can be helped.

If you genuinely feel like this then I would say that you need to see a psychologist who can help you work through how to deal with your poor looks and still attract a mate. You are obviously extremely depressed about it but it can all be worked on . There is so much more to liking someone beyond looks but you need help with getting this problem in perspective by the sound of it. ( I have tried to do just that in my reply to you)

Also eat well ( no greasy food like chips) ( it affects your complextion) Get help if you have an alcohol or drug problem ( as this can affect your complextion and your general looks as well as your sense of wellbeing ) and especially if you smoke try and get some help with giving it up as this will affect your skin and make you look less attractive. I am just being honest. The above are things you can do something about which is why I am mentioning them. You say you don't have the above problems ;so now I would suggest you see a doctor or physician over the mental aspect and go from there.

Gemma x

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Hey Gemma. No, as per my profile I'm about 165lbs, fairly in-shape, exercise regularly, clean clothes etc, no missing limbs. I'm really not going for only the "hot" people, I'm fairly open minded when it comes to women, but apparently swiping right to pretty much all of the women is too picky? I really don't see what going to a doctor/psychologist is going to affect women finding me ugly, I really don't. I just don't see a future with me in it if women don't want me. That's not a medical issue.

You need to see a psychologist as you are not understanding anything we say to you. It is like your mind is completely blocked apart from this one thought you have which you are obsessing over. You need help as your perspective is distorted , Also please see my latest comment on this. ie I think there may be some "immaturity" on your part .

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Stilltrying_ amen to that- if you see his reply to my response above- he just said the same thing i said, in different words- not even realizing that he and i were both talking about the exact same thing !! he missed my point totally even as he repeated it--- the ugliness isn't his problem- its that he can't find any happiness without women. What got me sad is , the more i read the more i realized, this is what the porn culture has done to people, especially men. They are obsessed with only one thing in life, not even fathoming there is a world out there of many things besides sex. Most of us are advising him that there's other things in life to enjoy, alone, without the opposite sex, period. but yes he's blocked from getting the point. Sigh. i increase my prayers tonight

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Absolutely. I agree with you. He simply wants to be found "hot" and he's not. Spoonyspoon, you can't see it but you need SERIOUS therapy. It isn't normal to feel suicidal over this one thing. I think you have the wrong idea of what it is you want. I won't say anymore as you don't seem to be listening anyway.

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Gemma, you seem to make great sweeping assumptions about me, then take them as fact, then base your advice off the facts about me that YOU made up.

Really, nothing to do with "porn culture", it's about wanting for members of the opposite sex to find me attractive, AKA that thing everyone else first experienced by the age of 15. Being wanted to be wanted by the opposite sex pre-dates pornography, it's just not really talked about by those who have problems with it.

Wanting to be sexually attractive to the opposite sex is something so basic it’s literally hard-wired into our DNA. It’s the reason we check our hair before we leave the house, pick our outfits carefully, or try to lay off carbohydrates when beach season is coming. Women don’t pluck their eyebrows and shave their legs because they enjoy discomfort, they do it because they believe it’s a step towards making themselves more attractive to men. And yet you deride me for wanting to be found attractive? Teenagers usually achieve some measure of success with minimal effort, for Pete’s sake, no wonder someone double their age would feel terrible for having little-to-no success in that arena.

I wasn't saying that it's wrong to want to be found attractive. I think you want to be "popular" on a physical level which is sounds like you are not, so you need just to accept that and get used to it.

It doesn't even sound like you want a serious relationship. No you won't be able to play the field and have many one night stands unless like you mentioned earlier there is some drunkeness involved. So no you are not going to able to be able to "pull".

It sounds like you need to work on your personality and also have some respect for women and don't think about pulling them but getting to know them and developing a proper relationship based on respect.

So then your retort will probably be ; "I don't want to "pull" ; I just want someone to fancy me" and I do have respect for women.

So then we get to the crunch.

Yes, online I can understand. It is visually based at first and the main thing people go on is the picture. You say you have many female friends and you feel at ease with them; why does this never go to the "next level?" as many women prefer a good personality over looks. Also what about going places where you will meet girls with similar interests to you and building a friendship?

What is it about your looks in that case that you find ugly or you think they do? ( I have noticed that you have never actually said )

Have you ever tried asking anyone what is unappealing about you and asking for honest feedback ?

Also you have never said what kind of girl/woman you would wish to go out with? I notice you haven't taken up the offer of the lady who wanted to go out with you from this thread you have posted, so what are your criteria for girls/women?

G x

I'm sensing another round of your assumptions. I mean, sure, I would like to be more popular than "0", but I'm not dreaming of being an international playboy, here. I'm literally just looking for the same experiences that everyone else goes through.

Truthfully, I'd be happy with some dating for now, take it slow. For someone who missed the whole cutesy relationships that teenagers had, the idea of going straight to a big long term relationship is intimidating. I'm not against one-night-stands, but I'm more interested in the idea of dating someone.

My female friends are just that. Many are happily married etc, and I think it's pretty stupid to be friends with someone just so you can hope they'll end up with you, so I don't do it. So with my friends, it's never really a question as to why things didn't go further, we both go in interested as friends. I've never had a problem with my looks at all, this doesn't come from inside, it comes from the way women believe me to be. At 16 I thought I was fine, 18, 21, the magic power of believing I was alright-looking did nothing to convince the women of the world otherwise.

As I've mentioned in my initial post, many of my hobbies do involve women, though not by design. I do 1940s style swing dancing, which has a constant influx of younger people, and a very high ratio of women to men, it just seems to work out that way. Consequently, I've seen every available man on the scene (at least the ones that can dance) get pretty much "snapped up" very quickly. I don't go to dancing to meet women, I enjoy dancing, but 5 years in and not a single bit of interest, despite being a pretty good lead, young and single.

I have told my friends about this, pretty much as soon as I started to feel like this (earlier this year). They don't believe me, much in the same way you guys don't. They say I must be unhappy with my job, or unhappy with where I live, or I must be too picky, or there must be a problem with my childhood, they don't seem to want to entertain the idea. And really, why would they? They're pretty people; not like model good-looking, but they experience a different world than I do; they had relationships at 12, partners at 20, even the happily married ones still occasionally get hit on. So when I tell them my problems, they hand-wave it off and tell me I'll be fine because they did okay. It's like if an asthmatic person told you they can't breathe, you wouldn't say "Don't be silly! There's plenty of air here, I can breathe just fine!"

You are making absolutely no sense at all. You say that you don't have a problem with the way you look but women do. What is it about you that they don't like? Do they think you are gay? Do they think you are boring?

You haven't answered and direct questions about this. Why did all this start earlier in the year but you were ok before?

Or is there some girl you're interested in right now and she isn't interested so that's what's sent you down?? God knows to be honest.

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I wanted to say something, this is one area of your life and yet all your focus is on it. I’ve been alone for 10 years now, before that I had two very stressful & unhappy relationships. It is not about being attractive or not, it’s about loving yourself first. It’s rarely about looks, or weight, or how much money you earn. People who value themselves are attractive to others. People remember how you make them feel long after they forget what you said. Valuing & listening to others the most attractive qualities. It’s also very rewarding. I hope this gives you hope. It seams a strange idea that maybe you will kill yourself because you don’t want to be alone or feel you are missing out on something by not being in a relationship.

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I know how you feel but think of it this way so I am very insecure about my looks also but if you think about it no one sees you of how you see yourself. Us humans tend to pick out our flaws and focus on them like its the only thing we see! hang in there, please theres more too life than looks. You will find your person that will love you for you!

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Spoony spoon having read all your responses If i'm being honest I am thinking maybe a big part of your problem is immaturity and a bad world view and you are maybe for this reason just not ready to hear what we have to say. It seems like we need to work on you to get through to you as it is like hitting a brick wall. :) But also it is up to you to help yourself; so go see someone about this.

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Honestly, it just feels like we're talking different languages: I'll open with "women online find me unattractive!" and you'll respond with "must be because you're too picky!" and I'll respond with "no, really not that, I'm not picky at all." and then you go "oh, well if you just believe in yourself more that will change things! Have you tried seeing a doctor?" You may say I'm missing the point, but from where I'm standing you're offering solutions to a different problem. As I ask again, what effect do you believe that me seeing a therapist/psychiatrist would change? Literally, I ask and you just tell me that I'm missing the point. It won't change me being seen by women as ugly. So "best case" scenario, I go for years and eventually, what, just learn to live with it? Jesus, so I'm still ugly and unwanted, but I'm paying a professional to help me not care? That's the most depressing sentence I think I've ever written, and I spent a significant portion of last night drafting suicide notes.

You spent a significant proportion of last night drafting suicide notes and you don't think you need psychological help???????

.Phone a suicide hotline right now or else go for counselling as soon as you can or at least see a physician.

Everyone is capable of getting a girlfriend and you know that but you keep saying you can't because you are "too ugly" which is ridiculous.

So you want us to believe that girls whether ugly or not never gravitate towards you or even if you have sought them out they still reject you??? You need to learn some personality skills to attract these girls.

Really you dumfound me. I have never seen a poster who is not able to take on even a tiny bit of advice he has been offered. Off to bed now I think :)

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So you're not sure what you hope to achieve by making the post but since you're sure that you wanted some type of record of this, I am beginning to think you made this post just for the attention because you do not seem to appreciate any of the contributor's comments but instead disregard any advice given. I think you know yourself a lot better than what you seem to appear in a lot of the replies you've gotten. I think deeply you are stubborn bc you really do know yourself and you know very well that no one will win with you. Somewhere in your deepest gutt you probably had an idea what types of replies you would get bc you've obviously had this discussion with many others before. I'm starting to believe that this is part of your coping mechanism about this one situation; it doesn't really matter what people tell you but I think it gives your ego a boost whenever you go against people's opinions/advice/suggestions. You might even be getting an ego boost right now as I you’re reading. How did you get those dates in the past? Have you ever been told that you’re someone’s crush, or has anyone even shown you any type of attraction towards you in the past, whether it was physical, emotional, spiritual, or just smarts? I am sure people/women have found you attractive in one way or another. Have you always felt like this all your life? When did you first start to think of suicide? How many times have you been told you were ugly? Sorry if those questions are too much, but I just want to get to know you better. Please help me understand you. If you can answer these questions honestly then it will confirm with me that you really do know yourself, that you're very in tune with yourself and your feelings. It’s just confusing bc if I disregard that you are only doing this for attention to gain that ego, then I sense your strong desire for a better life and perhaps you believe the experience of having a relationship with a woman would complete you, otherwise it would not drive you to be this desperate that you’d risk killing yourself. Maybe you are not suicidal at all as in you've planned out in detail how you would go about it, but that certain things trigger you to think this way every once in awhile and when you’re in this mindset, you feel the emotions so deeply and strongly that you believe ending your life would be easier. If this one thing in your life is causing you think of suicide, I wouldn’t be surprised if you really do struggle secretly with other things too. It is very much about how you feel because obviously your ugliness has driven you to expose your feelings in a post. You say you’re ugly because it’s about how other people feel, we’re still talking specifically about women right? Maybe you have a difficult time reading women? How do you know that women have negative feelings about you, how do you know for sure they think you’re ugly? Do they verbally confirm how ugly you are? If the women who you talk to on the internet say you're ugly, have you shown them a photo of yourself? Maybe you just really need a lot of time to get to know yourself even more even though in your replies you do seem to know yourself a lot, but maybe now you should begin to do something about what you know about yourself instead of repeating your own reality to yourself. Nothing has changed. No one can change you but you. If you are serious about suicide I don’t want you to end your life when you could make a woman somewhere out there in the world feel so special. I mean you’re only 26. I’ve known someone who was older than you and he never had a girlfriend or had sexual relations until he was 30. I sensed his desperation but he never gave up and now he’s happily married with kids. Whenever I feel like I can’t live for myself anymore, I think of the future kids I could potentially have or the loving family I could possibly have. Please don’t lose hope. I knew of another guy who was physically ugly by my definition and he actually wanted to be with me, I was a genuine friend to him but at the time I was trying my best to be single for as long as I could. I lasted 3 years of being single and I am so grateful for it. Honestly, thank you for your post. It's got my mind working so hard bc sometimes I feel like a zombie. If you don’t reply, then that really tells me you don’t want to expose who you really are deep down and you are perhaps hiding a secret to your own self even, as in denial. Be honest with yourself. Or maybe, you only reply to comments that upset you. Hmmm and if you do have something nice to say maybe you’d rather not say it out of fear that you might look bad. Ooooh maybe this is a social experiment! I can tell my mind’s going to be up all night again. You're one interesting dude and I do see your potential to really have your way with women since it’s arguable that you are one stubborn individual. You know it. I am one myself. <3

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grLeigh23. Hope you don't mind me copying and pasting your comments but the following stood out "Maybe you are not suicidal at all as in you've planned out in detail how you would go about it, but that certain things trigger you to think this way every once in awhile and when you’re in the this mindset, you feel the emotions so deeply and strongly that you believe ending your life would be easier"

Something about him is "engaging" me and "drawing me in" ; I think it is my "rescuer" as I can't bear to think of anyone wanting to end their lives as I have felt the same for most of my life.

But is he really at imminent risk I am asking myself?

I personally don't feel he has any intention ( or maybe any need in his opinion and maybe not even in reality now I come to think of it ) of seeking out any sort of psychiatric or psychological help.

Narcissists are great entertainers and full of drama so that has struck me as a possibility in that he craves attention over this negative issue, but I think that's unlikely and "troubled young man" is hopefully the case and hopefully he will "grow out of it " (maybe he went out tonight while we're sat at home and pouring over how to "save " him and met "the one" (please God :) ! ( sorry for being religious: joke ! :) )

Or if he doesn't "grow out of it" maybe at least seek he might realise he needs to access appropriate help for his maybe unaknowledged depression . xx

:) Nope, don’t mind at all Stilltrying_ I can totally relate...I have a strong “rescuer” quality about me, but I think that’s only over the Internet. I don’t remember trying to “save” anyone from suicide or even self-harm, in person, but for some reason something typed up gets my juices going. I don’t think he will reply but I’ll leave it at that, God knows I’ve done my best and I’m glad it’s had me making reflections on myself too. We’re free to think whatever we want of him, but above anything I’ve said in comments, I hope and pray he doesn’t take his life and that he does eventually find himself in a relationship that’s actually meaningful and full of love and understanding.

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That's so lovely grLeigh23 x

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❤️❤️

I have a suggestion - I presume you are earning a reasonable wage? In that case why not save up for some plastic surgery if you want to look better?

well you're certainly wanted on here. I've never seen so many replies for ANYONE.

You are obviously popular and seem to have distorted view of yourself, with self hatred. Once those negative thoughts get there, they are difficult to change.

Enhance your appearance. Since self-image is the conceptual, visual display of your self-esteem, assess those things which display yourself: clothes, vehicle, home, garage, closet, dresser drawers, desk, etc. Sharpen all of the expressions of your life. No expense is necessary. Clean and press your clothes, clean your home and , wash your car, straighten your drawers, and desk. Do plenty of exercise.

Post progress here in couple of weeks

Hummmm. In reading through comments, it appears you are shooting down everything anyone has to say. Apparently not interested in giving any of it a try? I have one last suggestion. Have you tried self-acceptance?

I am sure you are a worthwhile person. I have no doubt that you have much to offer. Looks fade with time, anyway. Is there anyone who values a good character, good ethics, like honesty, and a willingness to reach out a hand to your fellow man, a good laugh? i can tell you there are plenty. I am one of them. While I was told I was beautiful by many; those looks have passed with age. When young, I found the lookers to be too conceited, too self absorbed, and too lacking in decent human morals. I always chose the 'ugly guys'. I placed my self worth in what I was able to do for humanity, and I have not regretted it for a minute. Look outside yourself, and give the world a glimpse of who you really are.

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Maybe after all this time you still haven’t experienced being in a relationship, you’ve really gotten yourself in a negative thought pattern that’s hard to get out of. I mean it’s only normal to think you’re unattractive after all these years. I also had my ugly years (early teens) and even times that I strongly felt no guy was attracted to my personality/character. I struggled with self-confidence bc I felt I never had it and I believed that was the only thing that was holding me back from a fulfilling relationship. I had so much insecurities....if it wasn’t my nose, it was my stretch marks and my big toes that were shorter than my second toes or how short I was, also my amalgam fillings on all my molars...I had an obsession with hating my ugly parts and and guess what?? Maybe I had such low self-esteem bc I was physically and verbally abused by my own father (for 15 yrs from 8-23) and even after that, the verbal abuse continued. On top of that I was secretly addicted to the occult (Astrology, Palmistry, just really weird stuff) for years thinking I would gain that confidence I was seeking bc I was learning a lot about me, but really it only screwed with my thinking even more. It made me more into myself and focused on things that only concerned me whether it came across in a pitiful or prideful way. What’s crazier is my diet was terrible, I was a vegetarian for just as long as the abuse, thinking it would help my mentality but bc I didn’t really know what I was doing, I was more of a junk food vegetarian, it really took a toll on my mindset. I was suicidal from the abuse, and from the nutrient imbalance I had, which also caused me to struggle with PMS, sleep, anxiety, depression, also the obsession I had with astrology made me paranoid, self-righteous, judgmental and confused to my wit’s end. I seriously thought I had the potential to be schizophrenic. I’ve never been diagnosed with any mental problems, and I’d rather not know if I really do have any.

You may have posted this problem either bc you were feeling really weak and hopeless or not necessarily bc you were feeling that way at the moment but just wanted to see what kind of replies you would get. I get it. I thought I might as well tell my testimony here and make this second reply a bit more different instead of making you focus more on you. I’ve been beaten down literally, physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, and I learned to accept all that was part of God shaping me into the beautiful, strong and confident person I am today. I’ve forgiven my father....it was the hardest thing ever but I did it, and he is much involved in the church now. People change, and so will you. I’m not saying that I had it worse than you bc I’m grateful for all that I went through, but if I had never changed my outlook on life I definitely would have taken my own life. Just don’t forget that there’s a ton other things that is unfair in this world besides your reason to be suicidal. I am part of this forum bc I still do struggle with anxiety/depression from time to time esp. leading up to my period. But what I have learned and still apply today is I USE MY WEAKNESS AS A TRIGGER TO SURRENDER AGAIN. I speak a lot on humility bc it leads to peace and wholeness which leads to confidence and joy and from joy to freedom. Know the difference between weakness and humility. Weakness believe it or not has pride in it. It is based on the thought and feeling we have because we believe we are not strong/confident enough either overall or about a particular area in life. You can magnify your weakness by feeding into that belief which will only strengthen your weakness. I’m saying there is pride in your weakness even if you’re feeling like you are not at all prideful. It’s pride when you choose to believe nothing else is right but your feelings. Feelings come and go, but the LORD does not. Where are you putting your confidence in about this subject on attractiveness....your feelings or God? Humility on the other hand is acceptance of what you have good or bad and completely trusting Him with it.

I can relate to your problem bc I sounded a lot like you when I didn’t even know I was being prideful. Genuine people are attracted to humility and not pride. Did you know initially it’s ok to listen to your feelings, but it’s a sin to remain in them? If it’s a relationship with a woman you really want, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you (Matthew 7:7). Trust me, this world/your world (your mindset) right now is not about how you can’t attract women because you’re ugly. It is something deeper that’s not right with your soul. Do some soul searching and you’ll shine with the qualities that will attract the woman who rightfully deserves you. Change your outlook on life, stop magnifying those thoughts that are killing you. Put the focus off you and put it on Him. I love you brother. Come by my blog godfirstgodalways on Tumblr or my main site sheelaleigh.com God bless you. <3 <3 <3

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You can't tell someone to believe in God as though this will help them. It does you and others fair enough but it can trigger others. This is not a specifically Christian site and is open to those of all faiths. How do you know the poster isn't a Muslim? Or Islam? Or even a Druid? Or an atheist. If so your God talk could very well alarm them and even drive them off here!

There are many non believers about including myself and I am sure we don't come on a mental health site to hear bible bashing or religious text. Please refer to the Terms of posting on all HU sites.

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I actually did not say at all to believe in God. I only said my story and gave him a choice. It’s ok, I take no offense. I said what I was convicted to say and it wasn’t meant for you. Now it’s up to the person who made the post to which I replied to, not you. I don’t believe I came across religious at all, I focus on relationship and not religion. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe. If this helps him then my job is done. :) I will not say one more word about God in this post. Thank you for your concern.

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'Put the focus off you and put it on Him. I love you brother. Come by my blog godfirstgodalways on Tumblr or my main site sheelaleigh.com God bless you'

You are in effect telling him to believe in your God and trying to covert him by putting your god site details on here. I don't care who your doctrine was meant for, it still has no place on the main board where all can see it. If you look at HU's terms of posting you will see that this kind of conversation on here is not acceptable.

So I read it and the only thing on religion is found under Acceptable Use - Contributions must not:

Promote any discrimination based on race, sex, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation or age.

I don’t believe I discriminated his religion bc he didn’t mention anything on religion. So actually you’re the one discriminating my religion. Did you read the Terms of Use for HU?

I could only see myself getting into trouble if I gave him medical advice and I’m not even a physician.

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You are promoting your religion on here which is not acceptable. I know the rules backwards and another one which you obviously haven't read is that your contribution can not embarrass or offend other uses. God talk on here offends and embarrasses me and if it does for me then it must for others too.

To you it’s not acceptable. If it offended SpoonySpoon so much he would have said so in a reply, but I see that he hasn’t even commented. Have you read the other commenters who mention “religion” too? Why not tell them it’s not ok, why only me? Let’s see how many more commenters mention religion, are you going to waste your time replying to all of them about your false knowledge of the TU? Learn not to let others’ words of wisdom meant for someone else become your problem. It’s not your battle. Obviously you’re the only one getting offended. If my comment to him embarrassed you, I had no idea it did bc it wasn’t meant for you. Now I know bc you tell me so, I’m sorry, but have I shoved my religion down your throat after you let me know that kind of talk is not ok? I am very careful with my words, I have followed the rules and have no shame. I said what I said out of love, not out of hate. Like I said before you believe what you believe, I will do the same. This post is not about you, it’s about him, so stick with that. But if it bothers you that much, I have a suggestion for you...why don’t you email HU about this situation, see what they say. I’m going now before I start to mention “my religion” again bc I don’t want to upset you anymore. ❤️

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it offends me.... and I know of many people that don't want to feel like they are being indoctrinated.

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Yes I know quite a few as well who are non believers on here and hate all this bible bashing and preaching. x

I have copied some of the rules for you so you can see for yourself as you obviously don't believe me. I have been here a long time so please don't come in and tell me how to behave and how the site works. I know the terms and conditions of posting and it's clear you don't.

I will have to put it in words of 1 syllable - putting on a public site that 'God is our Saviour' etc. is embarrassing me and making me feel uncomfortable. I have resisted telling you how I feel about religion coz I don't want to cause arguments on here and it won't help the others at all. Please do me the same courtesy and stop writing your claptrap here.

Oh and I did pick up on others posting religious treaties here (which I reported too) and the admin removed several responses including the others.

If you want to hold a prayer group then I suggest you do it with like minded people in personal messages. Just the same as most of us do when it's something others will have strong feelings about and to avoid disruption.

Like I said, I followed the rules, I didn’t discriminate SpoonySpoon for his religion. You are discriminating me for my religion. Do you clearly see that? I think I’m going to report you. My reply was for him, if it bothers you so much you should be the one to walk away. You are making this a bigger problem than it is bc you jumped on it and I have not at all “Bible bashed” you after you told me I’ve offended and embarrassed you. I have honored the rules without actually knowing it, I have broken no rule but you have. There’s a lot of things people are commenting out of Christian love other than myself and they never meant to embarrass or offend you. Really it’s all how you see things. Once my comments are taken down, then I’ll believe you. But for now, I guess you’re choosing to deal with it by continuing to comment. This post seems like it’s not about him anymore only bc you decided to discriminate my religion.

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'Did you know initially it’s ok to listen to your feelings, but it’s a sin to remain in them? If it’s a relationship with a woman you really want, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you (Matthew 7:7).'

You are assuming that the poster is 1) believer and 2) a Christian otherwise why are you quoting bible passages? Or was it someone else who wrote this? It is not a sin to remain in your feelings at all and who are you to say it is? You are telling him what Matthew said in the bible. Why are you doing this? Do you expect him and us to rush off and get a bible so we can read up all about Matthew on 7.7. This is visible to all of us on the main board and I object when I am coming in to respond to a poster to have to see this rubbish you are posting. It is not helpful unless you know the poster is a Christian and believs all this and it is threatening to those who are non believers.

You do not seem to understand this and I can't put it in simpler words. I always wonder why so many religious folk seem unable to understand anyone who isn't a believer and anyone who object to having 'God' quoted at them.

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Taken from HU's Terms. Please read.

'Contributions must not:

contain any material that is obscene, offensive, hateful, inflammatory or defamatory of any person;

promote any discrimination based on race, sex, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation or age;

infringe any copyright, database right, trade mark or any other right of any other person;

be threatening, abuse or invade another’s privacy, or cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety;

be likely to harass, upset, embarrass alarm or annoy any other person'

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yep.... site rules....and this dogma is way off topic of the persons original issue so please keep the preaching in Sunday school. Thank you.

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I have heard the expresson "you only get to be here once" so many times and I have taken the time to read each and every post on here and to be honest..?? it has left me feeling exhausted!! I think in this day and age there are so many people out there who CAN and WILL help with ANY issues you have, you just have to have the courage to approach. I used to think I was ugly too until a friend of mine said "people see you differently from the way you see yourself". If you are constantly looking at yourself, you WILL start nitpicking at everything YOU see as "not right" or "ugly", and this must be exhausting for you too!! Why not indulge in something other than constantly thinking about how "ugly" you think you are??... Again, another phrase I used to hear ofter was "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"..?? what might seem ugly to you, might be good looking, gorgeous, even sexy to someone else. I have always fancied the pants off Gerrand de Pardu (dont know if I have even spelled his named right - buy you know the one, French actor with incredibly big nose it almost looks false), there is just SOMETHING about him, and I know I am not alone in thinking this. He is considered "ugly" but so many women think he is attractive (me being one). Good looks are not what makes you "good looking". Being confident and saying to the world "Im here, this is me, take me as you find me, I love being in MY own skin".....this is attractive!!!

Suicide is not the answer my friend!! XXX

Theresa you are beautiful my friend both physically and mentally xx

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Awwe.. Thank you Mrs!! I have read your messages on here and I totally get where you are coming from and understand you completely...

I hope you are looking after yourself and I am sorry Ive not been in touch more often!!..Three months into my new job now and the last six months seem like a blur and "who was that person..??" but I will never forget my friends on here for all their love, support and kindness when I really needed it...Yourself and so many others picked me up when I was on the floor....its nice to be able to give something back..XXX

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Bless you Theresa. You are one of the good ones ! As you may have read I am doing very well and making a LOT of personal progress at the moment in my therapy and otherwise. Moving forward hun :) xxx

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SpoonySpoon If you hadn't have said you were suicidal ( which is very serious) probably no-one would have taken any notice of your post. We have to worry when people say things like this and take it seriously as feeling suicidal is signs of a very large trauma or psychological disorder of some kind. You keep making out you are "normal" ("extrovert", even) apart from two things; number one "women swipe the wrong way " (but you personally are happy with your looks and have "never had a problem" with them) and number two "this makes you suicidal". Ugh?????

Until you accept that you need help you will never progress. You've reeled us all in on here and then dismissed everything caring and sensible and loving that we have had to say and also in my opinion not aknowledged other peoples sincerity in sharing their own pain with you which may not have been very easy in many cases.

If it weren't for you being suicidal we'd have probably said you were a bit on an a****e and probably very shallow and self absorbed .I feel angry and frustrated with your responses (and that takes A LOT for me to feel that way) and wonder if I have been manipulated.

G

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I don’t really know how you want me to respond to this. Everything I’ve said in this is true to the best of my knowledge, I’m not out to deceive anyone; I genuinely do feel suicidal, most of the time, most days. I’ve done my best to describe my situation as accurately as possible so strangers do not get the wrong impression or blame the wrong things, but all I’m reading in this forum is precisely people getting the wrong impression and blaming the wrong things. It’s very difficult to take an opinion on board if I don’t believe it’s at all related to the problem I am describing, or if it’s directly ignoring something I’ve said earlier. If it feels like you’re bashing your head against a brick wall, just know I’m on the other side bashing mine just hoping someone will believe me, instead of making assumptions and presuming what I say is not true. I’m very sorry that you feel angry at my posts, I didn’t come here to cause a stir, I wouldn’t hold it against you if me metaphorically shook hands and called it a day.

So why is it you still haven't answered the following questions?

What is it about your looks (though you say you have "never had a problem" with your looks" and that you're "healthy and a good weight and height) that you find ugly or you think that these women do ? ( I have noticed that you have never actually said )

Do they for example say you look gay or say you look boring? Or do you for example feel that your ethnicity or skin colour is a problem? ( this could be due to being oppressed as a race in the past but can be treated with psychology )

With all the many people you know through your swing dancing and other social scene and you being an " extrovert "why have you never asked a friend male or female about this ?

Or you have asked and they tell you " nothing" but you don't believe them?? So they are lying???

Also what are your criteria for women and girls that you want to date? Age, location, looks? You claim to be virtually undateable.

Yet a couple of lovely ladies on here have tried to encourage you and one even offered to go out with you ( I am not saying this is a hook up place but nevertheless this was a genuine offer from someone to help relieve you of your suicidal misery ; but you basically ignored that comment and did not even compensate the lady by saying something like well that was a nice thought but we are across oceans and this isn't really the purpose of this place. You just dismissed it (and the other lady, Marguerite) that said you sound like a "nice guy" ) and you stayed (negatively) self focussed. You never thought of their feelings, only yours. A one sided connection.

Also you say you only started feeling like this "a few months ago" What changed? How did you feel before?

(Another thing you haven't replied to)

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I’m doing my best to reply to everyone and answer questions, but some of these you haven’t even asked before, you seem more interested in making assumptions about me. And so I shall do so in turn:

Women generally find me ugly, and that seems to permeate in the face. At least that’s the best I can tell, as the rest of me is covered, and I dress fairly normal. It’s not a race thing, or religion, or that I look “gay”, it is literally the thing I said in my post. I was a little skinny as a young person, so I thought that might be an area to work on, so I started eating healthier and exercising, packed on about 30lbs. I wasn’t expecting a miraculous change in the way women see me, but I was kind of hoping for something. I live in a big city, yet matches on online dating are non-existent: the few that match are spam or ones just matching so they can hurl insults like “cover up your face you’ll look better!” In person people aren’t so rude, but visibly put off by my presence. And when I ask a 3rd party to ask what that person thinks of me, the reply comes back “ugly”. As I have mentioned several times, often to YOU, I have talked to friends about it, some of whom are female. Like I said, people can only speak from experience, so someone who’s had little trouble in this department can’t seem to wrap their head around the idea that I am.

My “criteria” for dating is fairly simple. They’d need to be within a reasonable driving distance, and as I live in a big city that’s not a tall order. Other than that, I’m really not interested in someone with children. That’s it. Of the people I’ve liked: tall, short, fat, thin, hippie, conservative, it’s been an absolute mix with almost no thread. You keep coming back to the couple of people that wrote to a stranger “You seem alright” as though it’s some sort of proof, like we’re going to ride off into the sunset or something. I’m literally not interested in a long distance online courtship, I said this to you last time and now you’re bringing it up again.

I suppose I started feeling this way around December of last year, shortly before my 26th birthday. At 16 I didn’t care about if women liked me or not, 18, by 21 I was still optimistic, by 24 I had questions, touching on 26 made it feel like the sum of everything culminating in front of me. Nothing changed, it’s just been nothing happening all my life, and this year has really gotten me down about it for the first time. I felt pretty crappy in that December, but nothing terrible, but with each subsequent month I’ve gradually felt worse and worse to the point where I’m always thinking of killing myself, and if nothing changes I really don’t see it ending any other way.

I hope this answers every single one of your questions, I’m sure you’ll let me know if there’s more you claim I haven’t answered.

Thanks for your responses. 26 is a difficult time, someone ( who is a lot younger than me and male ) has just told me. It is a "time of great change" apparently. So hold onto that and know you will get through this.

I do have some more questions which are "What happened with the people that you met then? When did it all go wrong? The moment they set eyes on you in person? The moment you spoke to them? During the first date? After the first date? Into the second date? Or didn't it get that far? Did you get to meet them or was it an "online" thing and they rejected you before you met them? Did you find them attractive? How many and which or all? Did you like their personalities or didn't it get that far? Did they outwardly and openly tell you they found you too ugly to date? Or did a friend of theirs or a friend of yours tell you this ? I am just curious.

Personally I wouldn't let the fact of them saying to someone that they found you ugly put you off still "working" on them liking you. This is because ( and I know for a fact) whereas men (on the whole) mainly go for looks in a woman, women on the whole go for looks a bit yes, but that would probably be at least half way down the list for them and could be "over-rided or "outbid" by a number of other factors The top would be personality and to be honest feeling they are understood by a man (and that he isn't sexist or violent or "remote" emotionally or alcoholic or drug user or liable to try and get them in bed straighaway. They don't generally like that. They want to feel valued as a person and not as a commodity ( I am saying you do that, I am just saying what women I have met don't like at all)

Women like to be listened to and understood. They also like to feel that a man can offer them security; be that emotional or financial. They may even think about whether you would make a good father but not all of them. Some of them don't want it that way I am sure but mainly I think I can speak for all of us (because I'm like that!!! :) Joke :)

Have you tried dating a much older woman ? ( I am not offering myself as I am in the UK, I am 60 and a lesbian ( though I know a lot of straight women and they have told me why they chose their mate; looks often come at the bottom of the list; a big one is "Kindness" or "Shared interests" or "Shared moral values" ) You will need to work on your personality though as you do come across as very self absorbed and to be honest that would be a pain to deal with in real life though you may get a lady like myself who has gone through a lot of emotional pain herself and is willing to listen and try and help and "mother" you to some extent. (if she were older)

OK, going at this by a slightly different tack; Let's try every option out there I say!!

Surely there are ugly girls who advertise too? If you're in US no doubt there is an "ugly people " online dating site or would you ever consider moving to a bigger or different place where there was a different pool of girls/women available? Surely if you are that desperate then it is worthwhile considering? Though you said you're already in a big city so there's probably enough people.

You don't say really what kind of person you are or what you do for a job? Do you live with friends/ alone/with parent/parents? though I know you may want to keep that stuff anonymous on an online forum but I don't get any other idea about you except that you seem intelligent, you work and you like swing dancing and you are an extrovert and you feel suicidal because women find you ugly. I don't get a picture of you as a person really at all.

You can PM if you want if you don't want to give those details publicly. I will try and help if I can. and if you trust me.

I am a 60 year old woman, I am lesbian, in the UK, live alone , had narcissistic mother, in recovery from that and doing very well now. Have had a lot of therapy over the years but I am finally flourishing. I don't work but I do voluntary work. I'm not dating but happy; but have had a lot of very dysfunctional relationships in my past due to the abuse that I suffered and the damage that it did to me; so i got in a lot of co-dependent type relationships with people with DID ( dissociative identity disorder), people who had suffered childhood sexual abuse, alcolics etc. All that is past me now. I'm mixing with "normal" people.

It is great and I am gradually coming out of my shell and enjoying life. I consider myself to be caring, empathetic, insightful, and pretty balanced. I am only saying that to tell you that I am trustworthy if you did want to ask for more help via PM. I wouldn't divulge stuff either on the forum or anywhere else. You would have my word for that, though I don't think you will do that as I don't think you trust people that much. In one way that would be right; you do need to be careful (but I am honest, honestly) but keeping it public is fine too.

Gemma x

Ok, there’s about 30 questions you just asked to unpick, and I’m really not going to go into “Well Person X said this, and Person Y did this.” It’s not so much of a lack of trust as it is going into bizarrely specific detail, when I’m addressing the problem as a whole. I sincerely hope you will not hold it against me as “another thing I haven’t answered”.

I’m fairly open minded about the other person’s age, within reason, I currently cannot imagine an age gap of more than 10 years, but hypothetically I could fall for a 40 year old tomorrow and change all that. Definitely not looking for a mother figure.

I’m fairly open about my situation, I just feel it’s hardly relevant. I have my own place, I work in construction. It’s all fairly normal. And whilst those things may sound good on paper, it doesn’t matter if people are turning me down before we even get to that part. I could be a doctor with a great house, and photos of me would still look the same online and I’d still be treated the same way in bars.

I am glad things are working out for you and that you’ve found your peace. I thank you for your offer, though once again it feels like an assumption to say I don’t “trust” people, as I’ve had no problem talking with these feelings with any of my close friends.

Thank you Stilltrying_ for having the guts to say what i thought, but didn't want to write- bc it was too overwhelming for me to figure out how to say it without coming across as harsh or unhelpful. i want to show i care yet, the more i read i got the impression of a self-absorbed person as well- bc many here have written to him talking about their pain, but he ignored all of that, just picked the one line he didn't like in their response, and shot them down. He didn't tell the 27 year old girl who also feels ugly and never been in relationship, that he cares for her pain and wishes her well. or even acknowledge the woman who also was depressed, lonely and even wanted to get to know him. Didn't address one single person's sad situation period, to show any concern for those human beings. That's why my last response to him was just matter-of-fact, bc it's clear he is a typical product of today's culture- self-centered, superficial, all about gratifying one's immediate desires. If he were a gorgeous athlete type, what a horror!! a self-absorbed gorgeous person is a TOXIC nightmare to deal with , bc they don't have any reason to examine themselves and build character. To suffer , can ultimately become a blessing if one chooses right- to focus on what matters. so i pray in his case, the suffering does lead to a life of actual meaning. If he was physically beautiful -there'd be almost no chance of that happening. You and grLeigh23 are so patient and caring to really put depth of thought and reflection to keep trying to help. I , like you and she- have concluded that he is unlikely to actually commit the act of suicide,but will continue to pray for his healing and progress. i get particularly attracted to these types of posts (i shouldn't name names , but there was a young lady who was posting similar posts a few months ago- suicidal bc she "looked like a monster" do you know who i'm talking about?)- bc some of it is such a mirror of my own pain, and i want to try to help, even as i still struggle to get there- to overcome the sadness of feeling ugly, being alone. I kept responding to that young woman, and giving her advice, but then i haven't seen any posts lately so i private messaged her but she never responded. So it's making me question what are worthwhile ways of spending my time and energy. But of course i can remember when i was in my 20's and suicidal - i'm sure i was self-absorbed then also. Bc when one is in pain, that pain is all they can think about . Anyway i just don't have any more energy for this one, i'm in the middle of a lot of pain now also-- so thank you and grLeigh23 for being so lovingly patient with Spoonyspoon

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There have been a few people on here who have been really desperate. I do tend to gravitate towards those people due to having felt suicidal myself for most of my adult life ( but there were reasons; my mum was a toxic severe narcissistic personality disordered individual, and I have sought out therapy most of my life to gradually get to the better place I am now in since she died 4 years ago).

I always try and help both here and in real life. I have had a situation recently in real life when I realised I couldn't "rescue" that person. I supported and did more than anyone else would do probably but as my therapist has pointed out I tend to relate to people like this AS IF they have no internal robustness ( as my mum"professed" ( and I believed) that she had none (though in reality I have learned since she died and through my therapy that she actually had lots of robustness and wasn't even suicidal; it was a childish tantrum on her part when she did this but I wasn't to know as I was groomed by her to "provide" for her ) My therapist said people have more inside than I give them credit for, and also you cannot literally stop someone as you cannot watch them 24/7. They only need an hour alone or to say they are "going out" for the evil deed to be done somewhere.

What I do now is to support as much as possible and to let them know I am there no matter what but I have had to accept I can't rescue.

I have tried to support this young man as best I can. I am hoping he will go for cognitive therapy to help him with these issues.

If he does it despite all of this then it isn't my "fault" or your "fault" or anyone else on here's "fault". We will have tried our best.

I'm not sure which young lady specifically you were talking about but there was one on here about 5 years ago that lived near me. She was constantly saying she was in the activity of self harming in the park near where I live. I did everything I could to help her. I offered to meet up with her via PM and she never took me up on my offer. I was beside myself every day wondering if she was still alive. I have matured a lot since then. I don't know if this young lady is still alive as she never revealed her true identity to me or let me help her in more than a remote way ( on here) but I realise that I did my utmost best .

A wise woman that used to write on here was called secondhandrose (username) Many who have been on here for a while will remember her. She gave such amazing advice and was a major instigator in my own recovery.

I remember her writing one time "Unfortunately some people can't be helped and will end up killing themselves" This to me was horrendous at the time but it is true. We do all we can and then it's up to them.

I have known of people who have "done it" on here and that is very tragic. They were nice people and not self absorbed actually. Mainly just very abused and unable to surface from the terror of the abuse playing out in their current lives. We can't save every one.

I need to look after myself though. I have been suicidal for most of my 60 years. Now I am not. I have to be my top priority and make sure that I am OK after being so emotionally abused all my life up until recently.

Love and hugs. xxx

Stilltrying_ i actually have tried it,(suicide) but where i was going with my train of thought- following yours earlier, regarding this post- was along the lines of narcissism as well. But i'm not a professional trained to diagnose. I only have lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse, also. Glad you are well now, or at least much better. My own diagnoses are depression anxiety and borderline personality- those are my main ones. Borderlines really do it- at a very high rate- 10% of Borderlines kill themselves i think i read somewhere. i took almost 200 Ambien prescription sleeping pills, 12 years ago- which would kill anyone, it's too long a story to tell here how i survived that. i had every intent to die when i took those 200 pills, i had been planning it and going to 3 different doctors behind their backs, as well as 3 different pharmacies , to accumulate that many. i heard there are laws now to prevent that from happening these days, but not sure if that's accurate info. Anyway narcissists almost never commit suicide, only threaten it. (in my case i didn't tell anyone what i was planning. ) . of course we are all different, and again, i'm not a doctor trained to diagnose. i just , like you, know narcissistic symptoms pretty well- So, getting that vibe from him, as you did, led me to the conclusion that probably suicide won't happen. i admire and appreciate you really engaging in helping him - i do care for him and all here- and i know how hard it is to be stuck. I'm not "there"

yet myself- we're all struggling to get there, to self-love, contentment, overall mental health. I pray each day brings us all closer to this. Love and hugs to you

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Hey Spoons, I am sorry if any of my comments have offended you, I mean to convict and not condemn. As someone who was also suicidal, I’m just here hoping to help you see that there is light at the end of the tunnel with a different approach. Whether you let me know or not that it bothers you I will stop. ✌🏼

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Feeling suicidal is a mental illness. I think this obsession with your looks is a symptom but not the real problem.

Other people DO understand what is going on . They can see what you can't and you are in a state of denial about your true mental health issues.

Basically you are self negatively obsessed but it can be treated.

I suggest that one day you re- read through these responses and one day it will click that we were really trying to help you despite you frustrating the s***t out of us!!!

Gemma x

I think you and I will be great friends. I don’t know when the last time someone said they loved you but I love you hypercat54. Please don’t take that offensively.

I think (I think, not speaking for everyone else), that this whole post has grown so many arms and legs it is almost octopus-like!!

This is a person, (and I know who you are, and I hope you are reading this), who is so disappointed and unhappy with "looks" that he is feeling suicidal??.. This is still a problem relevant to that person. I walked into a coffee shop the other day and had 2 people tell me that I was the spitting image of Debra Messing (she plays Grace in Will and Grace). This girl is drop dead gorgeous, so yes, I took it as a huge compliment, BUT, my confidence issues means that I dont THINK I am "good enough" I THINK people are "judging me"...I have the exact SAME problems in that I THINK I am ugly. If someone whistles at me (which does happen from time to time) I THINK they are making fun of me!!!...

It has nothing to do with the outside and the "skin you are living in". If your brain tells you, you are ugly, then that is what you will believe (even if you are the most gorgeous looking creature on the planet)....

SpooneySpoon you really DO need to speak to someone. Half of me wishes that you could post a picture. I bet you dont look half as bad as you THINK you do... XXXXXXX

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yeah the outside is the least relevant its whats in the inside that counts most.i was thinking earlier about him posting a picture.i think its more of a self conscious matter more than anything.

Spot on Kenster. You wrote in two sentences probably what sums up the whole issue here. x (as well as immaturity on his part; though he can't see it; guess that's because he's immature :) )

I really don’t know what to say to this; in one sentence you both claim to know who I am, but also request a photo because you don’t know what I look like?

As I’ve pointed out several times in this ever-growing thread, it’s not about how I feel about my looks, it is about how other people feel that is the problem.

It is about how you feel about your looks because that's what is keeping you from moving forward from what other people feel..also, the only one who is making assumptions is you.. finally, I also believe you really need to read over the replies you've received and think about a few things twice because you have received some amazing advice from many who know what they are talking about and have given you many answers...

I dont think anyone actually requested a photo. Its just harder to understand when we dont see what you do. As for it not being a problem for you, "its about how other people feel"....You will NEVER be able to control what other people think or feel, so why dont you just concentrate on what you CAN control and that is how you feel about yourself.. Start loving yourself and bugger everyone else and what they think or feel. (If my mother was writing this, she would probably say something along the lines of

"And what makes YOU so special that you think everyone has an opinon of you...In the grand scheme of things, your really NOT that important!!"). Honestly, I can hear her voice now!! :-) :-)

Live for YOU, no-one else!!

Im done now, because I really dont know what else to say to try and help you make it better but please take care of you!! XXXX

Read your post again, and read it well. You specifically stated “I know how you are, and I hope you’re reading this.” Which is a very weird thing to say to someone, especially followed up with the admission that you don’t know what I look like. Please explain.

Let's just repeat what grLeigh23 proferred.

"Maybe you are not suicidal at all as in you've planned out in detail how you would go about it, but that certain things trigger you to think this way every once in awhile and when you’re in the this mindset, you feel the emotions so deeply and strongly that you believe ending your life would be easier."

What do you think?

I mean, I haven’t set a date, but I’ve pretty much got the ideas down for how I would do it. I’m really not saying this to “lure” people, but I’m stating it to contradict the theory. This is something I think about most of the time, most days. Obviously it’a easier to feel a little worse when you’re the only singleton in a room full of couples, but it’s something I feel in most situations. The feelings towards suicide do not come from a wish to avoid strong feelings, they come from a lack of hope for the future based on what has happened so far, and continues to happen to this day.

I hope this clears a few things up.

And you won't see a therapist because you don't think it will work?

...Cognitive therapy addresses these sort of negative thinking patterns. It's called therapy because it makes you better, not because it makes no difference.

If you work in construction you can afford?

Also to be honest you may need deeper therapy.

You are consumed by these negative thoughts and believe them to be "the truth" which they are not . They are a story you believe about yourself but they are not the objective truth. You are not living in reality . You are living inside your own head. You sound incredibly selfish and self absorbed, even though I also accept that you are genuinely suffering.

I think you need the "push" of therapy to do the growing up which you need to do emotionally. If not then there is a risk that you will just carry on thinking like this.

Please go see a cognitive therapist about this, and you'd better compensate them from you driving them nuts by paying them well at least. (half joke :) )

Get help my friend. x

You frequently chide me for not answering a specific question you’ve asked, however you have yet to answer my question on how therapy would solve my specific problem. “But you’ll love yourself and feel better etc etc etc”, so what? At 18 I loved myself and thought I was just fine, it had zero effect on the rest of the population. 20, 23, felt no body image issues, and people still thought of me as ugly. To this day, I will sometimes leave the house thinking I look good, or the best version of me, at least. This idea that you’re pushing of “The Magic Of Self Belief” has had precisely ZERO effect on the rest of the world, so explain why I should pay to feel like that again, when it doesn’t even solve my problem?

Wowww sooo many replies... read through them all and my mind is boggled 🤯.....

I personally and a lot of other women/men I know choose character over looks. So I’m 100% there will be others out there around you who also do. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder

There could be the most good looking man on earth but if he’s rude, negative, mean, belittling, mannerless.... who on earth will look at him and be like

“ 😍😍😍😍 YUPPPP ! THERE HE IS THATS THE MAN I WANT TO HAVE KIDS WITH...”

A Kind heart and a sweet smile will always prevail over good looks x

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Me too..my minds blogged aswell!..you made some true points..

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Hi SpoonySpoon,

Sorry you are feeling so down.

What if you got off social media, or at least the dating apps that are all about "here's what I look like" as the first hurdle? I'm from a different generation. We met in person, where the entire person makes an impression, not just the appearance. This whole online meetup thing based on a picture- yikes, seems really stressful to me. I think it might help you to have a different perspective on this and a different assessment of yourself if you weren't constantly getting that feedback of "nope- swipe left" (or right, whichever it is). That would beat anyone up after awhile.

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Hello SpoonySpoon ,

Keep on keeping on? Your time will come.

Dear community,

Due to the large number of reports and the tone of the conversation, we have decided to close this thread.

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