So it's just said that we shouldn't have the Oxford vaccine because it is a synthetic live vaccine. My lupus specialist said they weren't live. Which is right, what vaccine should we have.
Oxford vaccine : So it's just said that we shouldn... - LUPUS UK
Oxford vaccine
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Hunnibunni
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Hey Hunnibunni... hmm.. confusing! Well I'm waiting for Astrazeneca due to my nasty (delayed by 3hrs or more) reactions to things such as morphine, iodine, penicillin etc. My GP said too risky to have Pfizer. I have read many times now the second dose of Pfizer can lead to people feeling quite unwell too.... One of us posted yesterday(?) she had bad reaction to second dose and a friend/ex colleague of mine who still works in Social Work said some of her colleagues have felt v rough on it. You can only go on your past reactions to meds and the advice of your clinicians I guess... but then we can make a decision ourselves too I hope? Hope you doing ok x
I think that was hatelupus DJ x
hello, there are 33 replies on the PMR site you might find interesting, I do hope you'll find the right vac for your situ, there's so much info isn't there, best wishes Polly. below is my post from 2 days ago regards Prof Salisbury BB interview.
THE BBC NEWS TODAY REPORTED THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMUNOSUPPRESSED SHOULD ONLY HAVE THE PFIZER VACCINE, AND NOT THE OXFORD VACCINE, AND WHY.
Pollynolongerinagony
1 day ago•33 Replies
FOLLOWING TODAY'S BBC NEWS BROADCAST, UNDER THE HEADING 'CORONAVIRUS ENGLAND VACCINATION.' THE FEMALE NEWS READER ASKED THEIR EXPERT 'WHO SHOULD GET WHICH VACCINE? ARE THERE PARTICULAR VACCINES WHICH ARE MORE SUITABLE FOR CERTAIN SECTIONS OF THE POPULATION? ' THEIR EXPERT REPLIED 'THE ONLY GROUP ONE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT USING THE OXFORD VACCINE FOR, ARE PEOPLE WHOSE IMMUNITY IS SUPPRESSED OR COMPROMISED, BECAUSE IT IS A LIVE VIRUS, ALTHOUGH NOT A HUMAN VIRUS (CHIMPANZEE), IT IS A LIVE VIRUS; I THINK THAT FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IMMUNO COMPROMISED, CLEARLY WE WANT TO PROTECT THEM, AND THE PFIZER VACCINE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THEM.' I have looked into this difference and the Oxford vaccines are produced using weakened forms of the (live) virus. But the jabs from Pfizer vaccine are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines. These only use the virus's genetic code. An mRNA vaccine is injected into the body where it enters cells and tells them to create antigens. The expert clearly states we should only have the Pfizer vaccine. regards Polly
WHO "just said"????
If I remember rightly, the delivery vector for the Oxford vaccine is an inactivated adenovirus which has been engineered so it cannot infect humans but can be used to transport the vaccine into the human cells. In that sense it could be described as "live" and "inactivated" - but not of the Covid virus.
sputnikvaccine.com/about-va...
As far as I know, only parts of the Covid structure are being used in any vaccine - not the virus itself but parts of the spike protein that have been created synthetically so that your immune system can look at the shape and learn to recognise it. Like identifying the buttons on a coat and being able to recognise them again even if the shape or colour of the coat has changed in the meantime.
Having a reaction to the vaccine and feeling unwell, having a sore arm, aching or whatever ISN'T a reason to say you shouldn't have it. Most such reactions are because your immune system is doing what it should do and developing immunity.
As someone who is immunocompromised I'm trusting my drs to give me the vaccine suitable for me....those are the people i will be listening to and I think you should too.
I have every intention of doing so. And why I asked WHO said this? Was it some sceptic on FB?
Sorry PMRPRO that wasnt aimed at you that was for hunnibunni 🤦♀️
Professor David Salisbury, former Director of Immunisation for the Dept of Health, said it on the BBC.
Yes I saw this, didn't catch his name as was doing other stuff at the same time. Am I right in saying he was being interviewed on BBC just before the Corona virus conference. Made my ears prick up when I heard him say people with low immunity.
Yes bonnyb it was on that programme
I agree PMRpro- have it if you can! Obviously I had anaphylaxis stuff ie went into Shock in hospital post op with morphine (v v scary, nurses flapping etc), throat closing up with another type and puking for days, v high blood pressure with iodine, and whole of my bottom went red hot and rashed on one of the penicillins (my "baboon" moment I call it 
- so obviously this is why my GP said "too risky" and said I absolutely cannot have it/wait for the Astrazeneca... So there are reactions and reactions... and was just saying some of the people I mentioned are having to be off sick with it as so unwell... but maybe they have underlying health conditions too etc. I still wanted to take the Pfizer one and take the chance, when it was the only one, (not that they'd have let me of course) but thank goodness for the Astrazeneca one.
People have a right to be sceptical about anything that they put in their body and it's not just people that go on facebook you should think about what you say!
Bless you . People must remain unbiased when relaying information. and treat information respectfully.
It's so confusing re the Oxford vaccine , my rheumatologist said it was live but attenuated and my dermatologist said there was no live virus in it , I heard on the tv that it was live but my nurse said it was not live !! I really can't work it out , I've read absolutely everything I can find but still don't know ! I know it doesn't give you Covid but how does the 'live attenuated' bit affect people with autoimmune issues , can we or can't we ???
Sorry, I just posted this after seeing the BBC coverage, didn't realise someone had already brought it up. I'm very confused now.
"Professor David Salisbury, former Director of Immunisation for the Dept of Health, before BoJo's briefing, said that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is a live vaccine (not 'human live' but 'live' nevertheless) so the immunocompromised should get the Pfizer vaccine. Now what?"
What?! Oh hell! Hmm... 🤨
I suppose it depends how you define "immunocopromised". Usually it means patients on chemotherapy (not the doses used in rheumatology), post solid organ transplants, HIV/AIDS patients and those with primary or secondary immunodeficiency disorders.
So are you therefor defining everyone with PMR on Prednisolone as not being immunosuppressed and so advising us to safely have the Oxford vaccine? Here is what an expert Rheumatologist Dr Huffstutter says in the May 2020 editorial in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism in response to the question, Is Prednisone immunosuppressing? "Prednisone is a broad immunosuppressant,” Dr. Huffstutter explains, "Unlike targeted medications — prednisone works to lower inflammation throughout the entire body.
It does that by imitating the corticosteroids that are naturally produced by the adrenal glands. When you put a synthetic corticosteroid like prednisone into your body, your adrenal glands stop producing their own supply. The resulting lower level of inflammation throughout your body is what helps relieve symptoms in joints or other trouble spots. But it may also end up suppressing your immune system function. "There is good data that prednisone makes you more susceptible to a variety of infections ... ”
That isn't how pred works - it will relieve inflammation long before it suppresses adrenal function which takes a few weeks. A patient on a short course of pred, 5 days say, will not have their adrenal function suppressed but their gout will have been successfully dealt with.
He did, been trying to remember his exact words. Didn't want to get it wrong and cause more confusion X
hello, there are 33 replies on the PMR site you might find interesting, I do hope you'll find the right vac for your situ, there's so much info isn't there, best wishes Polly. Pollynolongerinagony
2 day ago•33 Replies
I have looked into this difference and the Oxford vaccines are produced using weakened forms of the (live) virus. But the jabs from Pfizer vaccine are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines. These only use the virus's genetic code. An mRNA vaccine is injected into the body where it enters cells and tells them to create antigens. The expert clearly states we should only have the Pfizer vaccine. I do sincerely hoe you find the right vaccine for your needs, best wishes Polly
Live?? Omg thats insane ...definitely cant have live , flu is not even live wth
hello, there are 33 replies on the PMR site you might find interesting, I do hope you'll find the right vac for your situ, there's so much info isn't there, best wishes Polly. below is my post from 2 days ago regards Prof Salisbury BB interview.
THE BBC NEWS TODAY REPORTED THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMUNOSUPPRESSED SHOULD ONLY HAVE THE PFIZER VACCINE, AND NOT THE OXFORD VACCINE, AND WHY.
Pollynolongerinagony
1 day ago•33 Replies
best wishes Polly
Morning all, I’m now totally confused. My rheumatologist told me yesterday that I could have the vaccine as it wasn’t live but I’m allergic to penicillin which is concerning me as to whether I can have it at all. After reading your posts, I’m now even more confused!
Hi, I’m allergic to penicillin too, I have had the 1st dose of the Pfizer, I was fine. My 2nd dose is on 2nd March. The new shielding guidance says we should still shield even after the 2nd dose till we are told otherwise.
Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I’m glad you’ve had your first vaccine and are feeling well. 😊
thats excellent news and a great help thankyou , polly
Thank you, this helps me to feel more confident about it xxx stay safe
I’m allergic to penicillin but under the impression that the vaccine will be ok now I’m concerned
hi there there 33 replies on the PMR site might help your enquires, best wishes and good luck polly
Sorry to be thick but what's the PMR site ?
You totally are not thick, my fault sorry. It's Polymyalgia Rheumatica site on HealthUnlocked. I have PMR and there are a fantastic team advising us, good luck with whatever answers you are searching for, best wishes Polly.
Thanks Polly , duh yes I should have realised! I'm still trying to get to the bottom of the 'live but not live ' issue on the Ox Vax , so much confusion! Thx tho 🥰
this just popped up and will help you hopefully. Good Luck! PollyCOVID-19 Vaccination and immunosuppressed patients - UPDATE from 12/01/2021
PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador•
30 minutes ago•4 Replies
This has just been posted on the LupusUK forum by Paul Howard:
"We've updated our information and guidance about lupus and COVID-19 vaccination - lupusuk.org.uk/covid19-vacc...
1. What COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is and what it is used forCOVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is a vaccine used to protect people aged 18 years and older against COVID-19.
COVID-19 is caused by a virus called coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2).
COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca stimulates the body’s natural defences (immune system). It causes the body to produce its own protection (antibodies) against the virus. This will help to protect you against COVID-19 in the future. None of the ingredients in this vaccine can cause COVID-19.
2. What you need to know before you receive COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca
Do not have the vaccine:
• If you have ever had a severe allergic reaction to any of the active substances or any of the other ingredients listed in section 5. Signs of an allergic reaction may include itchy skin rash, shortness of breath and swelling of the face or tongue. Contact your doctor or healthcare professional immediately or go to the nearest hospital emergency room right away if you have an allergic reaction. It can be life-threatening.
If you are not sure, talk to your doctor, pharmacist or vaccinator. Precautions
Tell your doctor, pharmacist or nurse before vaccination:
• If you have ever had a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) after any other vaccine injection;
• If you currently have a severe infection with a high temperature (over 38°C). However, a mild fever or infection, like a cold, are not reasons to delay vaccination;
• If you have a problem with bleeding or bruising, or if you are taking a blood thinning medicine (anticoagulant);
• If your immune system does not work properly (immunodeficiency) or you are taking medicines that weaken the immune system (such as high-dose corticosteroids, immunosuppressants or cancer medicines).
If you are not sure if any of the above applies to you, talk to your doctor, pharmacist or vaccinator before you are given the vaccine.
As with any vaccine, COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca may not protect everyone who is vaccinated from COVID-19. It is not yet known how long people who receive the vaccine will be protected for. No data are currently available in individuals with a weakened immune system or who are taking chronic treatment that suppresses or prevents immune responses.
Children and adolescents
No data are currently available on the use of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca in children and adolescents younger than 18 years of age.
Other medicines and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca
Tell your doctor, pharmacist or nurse if you are taking, have recently taken or might take, any other medicines or vaccines.
Pregnancy and breastfeeding
If you are pregnant or breastfeeding, think you may be pregnant, or are planning to have a baby, tell your doctor, pharmacist or nurse. There are limited data on the use of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca in pregnant or breastfeeding women. Your doctor, pharmacist or vaccinator will discuss with you whether you can be given the vaccine.
Paul_HowardPartnerLUPUS UK
Hi Hunnibunni ,
We were made aware of this BBC interview with Professor David Salisbury, former Director of Immunisation for the Dept of Health by our colleagues at Vasculitis UK. They have contacted the team at Imperial College for a response to the statement because it contradicts everything we have been advised so far.
The guidance from the JCVI and lupus clinicians I have spoken to who were involved in the Oxford trial have stated that the vaccine is safe for people who are immunosuppressed.
I understand that a new guide about the vaccine for Healthcare Practitioners is due to be published on Monday (11th Jan 2021). Hopefully this will help clarify matters. We'll be sure to update our guidance as necessary and help to bust any myths.
The British Society for Rheumatologu (BSR) has just posted this tweet - twitter.com/RheumatologyUK/...
Hello Paul, thankyou for that very informative link.
Perhaps Prof. Salisbury's comments regards live vaccine were (possibly mistakenly?) generated from statements like the link you posted? i.e. 'Although AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine contains a live adenovirus vector, this virus is not replicating and is considered safe in immunosuppressed people.'
I would be grateful if you could you advise what percentage of cover immunosuppressed and immune compromised people will achieve from the vaccine please, as the link you posted informs a lesser protection for these groups (inc. those with HIV) for example : 'Individuals with immunosuppression may not make a full immune response to vaccination.'
Once again thankyou for your input. We would be lost without this very informative and generous hearted forum, full of caring sharing people, who give their time and experience to help themselves and each other. Freedom of speech and opinion are cherished in our Democracy and sharing this platform is sacrosanct. Best wises Polly
Hi Pollynolongerinagony ,
A number of groups and organisations have contacted Prof Salisbury following his comments and I've seen an email this morning in which he confirms that people who are immunosuppressed can be safely vaccinated with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine according to the guidance from the medical specialties.
I'm afraid that, at this time, we simply don't know how much protection the vaccines offer to people who are immunocompromised. Studies are looking at this, but for the time being, the uncertainty is why the guidance recommends continuing precautionary measures such as shielding.
Thankyou.
Thanks Paul.
Professor Salisbury posted 2 days ago ....THE BBC NEWS TODAY REPORTED THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMUNOSUPPRESSED SHOULD ONLY HAVE THE PFIZER VACCINE, AND NOT THE OXFORD VACCINE, AND WHY.
•33 Replies
on PMR site
FOLLOWING TODAY'S BBC NEWS BROADCAST, UNDER THE HEADING 'CORONAVIRUS ENGLAND VACCINATION.' THE FEMALE NEWS READER ASKED THEIR EXPERT 'WHO SHOULD GET WHICH VACCINE? ARE THERE PARTICULAR VACCINES WHICH ARE MORE SUITABLE FOR CERTAIN SECTIONS OF THE POPULATION? ' THEIR EXPERT REPLIED 'THE ONLY GROUP ONE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT USING THE OXFORD VACCINE FOR, ARE PEOPLE WHOSE IMMUNITY IS SUPPRESSED OR COMPROMISED, BECAUSE IT IS A LIVE VIRUS, ALTHOUGH NOT A HUMAN VIRUS (CHIMPANZEE), IT IS A LIVE VIRUS; I THINK THAT FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IMMUNO COMPROMISED, CLEARLY WE WANT TO PROTECT THEM, AND THE PFIZER VACCINE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THEM.' I have looked into this difference and the Oxford vaccines are produced using weakened forms of the (live) virus. But the jabs from Pfizer vaccine are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines. These only use the virus's genetic code. An mRNA vaccine is injected into the body where it enters cells and tells them to create antigens. The expert clearly states we should only have the Pfizer vaccine.of Salisbury
Following great interest and info on the PMR site, Ability to discuss response to Prof Salisbury interview has now sadly been turned off by Administrators. But there are 33 comments which you may find informative. I do hope you will find the right vaccine to suit yr situation which is what all of us are hoping for with good sound unbiased advice. Best wishes, Polly
hello, there are 33 replies on the PMR site you might find interesting, I do hope you'll find the right vac for your situ, there's so much info isn't there, best wishes Polly. below is my post from 2 days ago regards Prof Salisbury BBC interview.
THE BBC NEWS TODAY REPORTED THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMUNOSUPPRESSED SHOULD ONLY HAVE THE PFIZER VACCINE, AND NOT THE OXFORD VACCINE, AND WHY.
Pollynolongerinagony
1 day ago•33 Replies
FOLLOWING TODAY'S BBC NEWS BROADCAST, UNDER THE HEADING 'CORONAVIRUS ENGLAND VACCINATION.' THE FEMALE NEWS READER ASKED THEIR EXPERT 'WHO SHOULD GET WHICH VACCINE? ARE THERE PARTICULAR VACCINES WHICH ARE MORE SUITABLE FOR CERTAIN SECTIONS OF THE POPULATION? ' THEIR EXPERT REPLIED 'THE ONLY GROUP ONE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT USING THE OXFORD VACCINE FOR, ARE PEOPLE WHOSE IMMUNITY IS SUPPRESSED OR COMPROMISED, BECAUSE IT IS A LIVE VIRUS, ALTHOUGH NOT A HUMAN VIRUS (CHIMPANZEE), IT IS A LIVE VIRUS; I THINK THAT FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE IMMUNO COMPROMISED, CLEARLY WE WANT TO PROTECT THEM, AND THE PFIZER VACCINE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THEM.' I have looked into this difference and the Oxford vaccines are produced using weakened forms of the (live) virus. But the jabs from Pfizer vaccine are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines. These only use the virus's genetic code. An mRNA vaccine is injected into the body where it enters cells and tells them to create antigens. The expert clearly states we should only have the Pfizer vaccine. regards Polly
It us an attenuated virus, meaning a weakened version and formulated like the usual yearly flu vaccine and monitored every step on its way during production. It has shortened trials but they at least seemed safe enough without major side effects but still with all the additives as the other vaccine brands that make it awkward for those with allergies to heavy metals, certain animal proteins, preservatives and polyethanol PEG, - this last ingredient present in so many creams and lotions we put on our faces without thinking.Vaccines are on the face of it a bit of a gamble. We put our trust in the experts but forget they are in the business to sell their products that advertise like any other business. We blindly trust at our peril without investigating there products, when we wouldn't dream of investigation of other products that we give our children and put in our own bodies. It's for free you see. Vaccines are for free. We can't resist a bargain when it promises so much.
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