Are flat knit tights really supposed to fit you?

[caroline111]

I have just started to wear flat knit tights. Even though the nurses measured me carefully the first pair were terrible, too tight and not coming up the full length of my leg. The second pair were perfect so I ordered a pair just like that. When this third pair came though they were almost as bad as the first. Within 20 minutes of walking around or bending down, even once, they start to ride down my bottom taking the knickers with them (sorry for the detail) and also the crotch is about a third of the way down my thighs. It is impossible when you are at work or outdoors in the High Street to yank them up again as the only way you can do that properly is by taking your trousers down. I've now got a fourth pair and they are slightly better but not as good as the second.

I’m totally bewildered that even though I have been measured by experienced nurses (and I’m grateful to have access to them) three out of four pairs haven’t fitted properly. I’m also gobsmacked by the inconsistency in sizing. I know this has happened to other people and wonder why the LSN hasn’t taken this up with the hosiery companies on our behalf because it is so difficult for us as individuals to sort this out.

For those who have been wearing them for a while - is this how they are supposed to be? Do you just have to accept that after 20 minutes you are waddling around? Or are they actually supposed to fit and stay up at the top of your legs?

I would also appreciate advice on washing and drying. Can you really not spin them just for a short while ? Thanks for any advice.

[naominorthenellis]

It certainly is a problem faced by many - I don't think any 2 pairs of made to measure garments have ever fitted in the same way and the black ones always came up slightly smaller than the natural tone!

The therapists are very experienced and the measuring charts they use seem to be fairly standard so it must be to do with how those measurements are input at the point of manufacture for made to measure garments.

I really don't know what the answer is, the only consistency in sizing seems to be in the 'off the shelf' garments that I can purchase on-line. If stronger compression and irregular shape have to be taken into account though, this may not be a solution.

Such a lot of money wasted on garments that don't fit and are therefore un-wearable. I think it must be as frustrating for the therapists as it is for the patient.

[caroline111 in reply to naominorthenellis]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, at least two pairs of tights wasted so far and that's just me.

[CCT67]

Oh dear, you’ve had very bad luck. I’m a long time wearer of flat-knit bespoke made to measure garments (for lower & upper extremity, torso & head) from manufacturers Jobst, Juzo, and Haddenham. I’ve never experienced the extent of difficulties you’ve had with only four garments. However flat-knit garment fitting is indeed trial and error to get fit just right. Usually, once the fit is right they’re brilliant and repeat garments have fit well. Are your garments M2M or off the shelf? I’m assuming M2M.

A few possible factors that could explain ill fitting M2M garment: a) Not all M2M measuring is universal across compression companies. Indeed, it’s similar but not identical in some instances so it’s important your nurse is using the measuring guidance from the specific garment manufacturer for their specific product. b) Sometimes nurses make unintentional typos on the measurements order form, so even if their measuring was precise if a number is wrong it can throw the fit off everything (this has been my experience 2-3 times). In light of this, my lymph nurse says each measurement aloud and I carefully watch her record the number on the form, measurement by measurement. c) Even when measurements are accurate, if the computer inputter at the garment plant imputes a wrong number in error, it throws off garment fit. (I’ve had this occur twice where the manufacturer admitted they were in error having used the wrong numbers). d) I wear both black and beige M2M from Juzo and Haddenham. The black have always come up much bigger than beige (despite exact same measurements) so my nurse adjusts the measurements down for black my garments taking this into account.

Sometimes garments can slip down a bit throughout the day so using skin adhesive glue is the solution. All garment manufacturers make skin adhesive - it’s highly sticky but fully water soluble so it doesn’t harm skin or garments. It’s applied from a roll-on dispenser directly to the skin right before donning the garment to that area. Applying skin adhesive at the top of the legs and lower torso should help prevent slippage, if the garment was measured properly and the correct numbers were inputted to the machine at the plant. You can buy skin adhesive from Daylong Compression on-line (Daylong is specialist compression dispensary) or Lymph Shop on-line.

I wash garments in a lingerie bag on wool/delicate setting (or I hand wash). I spin on low speed setting. If you want to get more excess water out after washing try rolling garment in a towel which works well. I lay flat to dry (never hang) in the airing cupboard. My garments do well with the above care. All the best, Catherine

[caroline111 in reply to CCT67]

Thanks for your reply My tights are supposed to be made to measure. I'm beginning to think that the nurses sent the wrong measurements and the fact that the second pair fitted was a fluke. Thanks for your advice on washing. I'll continue to hand wash but give them a brief slow spin - I hope this will make drying quicker.

[kHP22 in reply to caroline111]

I can confirm that I’ve had ready made thigh length open toed stockings for many years and several times they’ve arrived with the foot length totally the wrong size despite my therapists sending in the same measurements for the foot length which hasn’t changed . It’s been a frustrating experience for all of us . Wearing the too short ones would result in the swelling building up in the front of the foot. You cant even send them back because they are ready made supposedly to your own personal measurements so wouldn’t fit anyone else and considering how expensive ready made garments are , it’s such a dreadful waste . Thankfully last time they accepted responsibility after sending in photos of the difference in size of the foot part they agreed to replace them. It’s no good wearing garments that you know are going to cause you more damage than good .

[GabbiD44 in reply to CCT67]

Hello! I am in the US. I have been wearing M2M flat knit since 2017. On advice from the lymphedema fitter, I have always washed them on a gentle cycle and dried them in a dryer.

[CCT67 in reply to GabbiD44]

You’ll find the garments fibres do much better by not putting them in a hot dryer, as they won’t break down as quickly, your garments will last longer

[Perido]

I'm a big fan of M2M flat knit garments ever since I got a stocking that fitted well and which has done a lot to help control my swelling over the past 3 years.

2019, after 3 attempts I got a M2M flat knit stocking that fitted well. Since then my swelling has been fairly stable and I've been on the same prescription ever since. Even so about 50% of my stockings have not fitted/worked well and it has always been because they were not made to specification as per original measurement form.

Whilst some of the errors were easy to identify others not so. Over the past 3 years I've spent far more time than I care to think about chasing up my lymphoedema clinic, GP, GP pharmacist, dispensing pharmacist and the manufacturer to resolve various issues with my stocking orders albeit things got sorted - eventually!

I've become aware that my dispensing pharmacist isn't comfortable with the use of Schema numbers which shoud be a surefire way of getting consistency. However I've discovered not even the use Schema numbers always guarantee success although it's easier to resolve issues if they are used.

It's not something I ever wanted to do but I check as much as I reasonably can whenever my stockings are ordered because I've learnt that things can go wrong at any stage of the process. I always endeavour to get copies of my measurement form for each order and this has helped to explain some things. The original form was filled in by hand and I saw a poorly written 6 could easily be mistaken for a 1 which explained why some stockings were 5cm too small on one of the thigh measurements. On another occasion the colour had been changed on the form - without my consent!!!; this turned out to be significant as the 'new' colour was fabric with different fibre composition to what I was used to and it affected the fit (discussed in a previous thread). On two occasions I've received stockings with off spec borders - not sure why but possibly because the measurement forms are flawed in their design.

I'm currently have stockings on order and recently visited my pharmacy where the assistant showed me my measurement form in the 'pending' basket. I was alarmed to see that my measurements have been transcribed by hand onto a new measurement form, which seems unnecessary to me as my GP has my original form on file. Also I don't think the Schema number has been used although my nurse specifically asked me to suppy it so it could be included in the order. I find myself wondering what might go wrong this time so I wait with bated breath for my stockings to arrive.

[caroline111 in reply to Perido]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, the anxiety around whether the tights will fit is for me the worst aspect as it involves phoning the clinic, persuading them they're not the right fit, having to get time off work to go in to see them - it just seems endless.

[Lymphet]

I too have experienced many issues, such as too long, too short, incorrect knee section, incorrect classification, incorrect silicone band, creating delays, inaccuracy, non delivery ( I’m still awaiting a made to measure toe cap since May this year) non processing, lack of measurement submission from GP to pharmacy. I have even been told by GP admin that the form was returned to the district nurse!! from whom it was never generated.

Typo’s and errors at any and all interventions. By far the best service I have experienced is from prescribing Lymphoedema nurses. But where 5 interventions are required….. nurse, GP practice (admin) local pharmacy, pharmacy procurement company, and end manufacturer is it really any surprise that we do not receive the correct garment on a timely basis.

One might cope with this terrible infliction, following cancer treatment as better than the alternative, if care and attention to detail was present, but as one never knows what is going to arrive ( or not) in the post is it really a surprise that in addition to the condition we have the mental upset each time a prescription is incorrectly fulfilled. These inconsistencies are unacceptable!

I too review my order with the Lymphoedema service nurses and generally they are very capable and correct. But further down the line the incidents Perido mentions are becoming the norm with increasing regularity. The cost to the nhs must be very expensive and wasteful. These garments are critical in maintaining good healthy limbs and as necessary as drugs for other ailments, keeping patients out of hospital.

Since covid I have experienced a further deterioration of the service. Other than raising these issues as complaints to our local Heath trusts, we are left without the proper health care. I wish some professionalism, consistency and care was brought to the interventions following the Lymphoedema nursing prescription. Making it a better experience for all sufferers. Let’s all try to tackle this together.

Wishing you all success this coming year.

[caroline111 in reply to Lymphet]

Thanks for your reply. I'm relieved I'm not the only one to have had this problem and from the replies it's clear I'm not the only one. I feel the best thing for me to do is ask the LSN what, if anything, they can do on our behalf.

[violetta15 in reply to caroline111]

Definitely get to know your measurer directly!

[Lyndy2]

I had a pair of stockings measured by the nurse at my GP practice. They were completely useless. It was only once I began seeing a lymphodema nurse specialist who ordered flat knit stockings from Juzo that I finally got ones that fitted properly x

[DeadfootMo]

I hope you manage to get this matter resolved asap as there is nothing to be gained by wearing tights or socks that just don't fit.

[violetta15]

I too wear "made to order" compression socks from Jobst and have had fitting issues and they remake the ones unwearable ones for free.. My experience though is that it is more often a production mistake as I have been using the same fitter for years and she is incredibly accurate.. I could even see where they would adjust one part but not another and the whole thing would "tork" ..

She always says when trying it on to wait on your judgement if whether you can use to wash it and then see.. I have had to remake 50% of my socks!! In that process though we also refined some features., for exampleI have pads around my ankles because I have bony feet and the lymph collects there from the ankle bone down to the bottom of the heel so we finally figured to lower the pad so the apex of the ankle bone is not padded but well padded tucked in the concave area down to the bottom of the heel.. wow game changer!

So get to know your measurer so there can be refinements and a process, even though they are accurate the production sometimes doesn't get it right! expect that it is a process! .. these are 'made to order' and Jobst will not make you pay for something you can't wear .. Best of luck!

[Perido in reply to violetta15]

Like you, about 50% of my MTM stockings have required a remake because of production errors. I see you have Jobst; I have Juzo so it seems it's possibly an issue across the industry. I wonder why the percentage of incorrectly made garments is so high?!?!

[violetta15 in reply to Perido]

My theory is that the sewers are trained as factory sewers that break down each operation that make sense in a ready to wear and not made to measure so the variation tolerances for ready to wear are way more forgivable than the made to measure, especially for compression wear because it is designed in 1/4" measure increments for each operation and so if they move something inadvertently just by that little amount .. it changes the way the garment feels and operates ...