VLCDs: The advice given about 800 calories... - Healthy Evidence

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VLCDs

jrwm profile image
jrwm
19 Replies

The advice given about 800 calories a day diet is so out of date on the NHS website. I have been following the Blood Sugar Diet for 7 weeks now, I eat fresh, wholesome foods, drink plenty of water, have NEVER been hungry or lost any hair and I certainly haven't suffered from constipation, diarrhoea, headaches or any of the other ailments listed. What I have done is - reduce the pain in my knees (osteoarthritis) by around 60%, have started walking (yes, I'm actually doing more exercise!) and have lost a little over 18lbs. I know that 800kcal diets are not for everyone, but using false information and scare tactics to stop people from losing weight, becoming healthier and, in the short and long term, saving the NHS money (one of my goals), surely is counterintuitive. I've never felt, or been, healthier - I'm almost 58 and have a new lease on life. NHS Livewell, review your page on VLCDs - put some 'scare stories' on if you like, but give people facts, not old, outdated ideas.

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jrwm profile image
jrwm
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19 Replies
Zeno profile image
Zeno

When you say "false information and scare tactics" and "old, outdated ideas", on what research is that based?

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

NHS website - "the diet usually involves replacing normal food with low-calorie shakes, soups, bars or porridge containing milk" - I eat well balanced, nutritious fresh food (vegetables, chicken, fish, milk, cheese etc. - see Dr. Michael Mosley Blood Sugar Diet).

NHS website - "VLCDs are hard to follow" - I've never found a more easy way of eating than this.

NHS website - "Apart from feeling hungry and low on energy, other side effects can include: dry mouth (drink plenty of water), constipation or diarrhoea (drink plenty of water), headaches, dizziness, cramps, hair thinning - I have not 'suffered' from any of those. In fact, as I've stated above, I'm now walking, have tons of energy and have stopped eating any processed food.

If you take a moment to read the BSD book or watch Dr. Michael Mosley on YouTube, you will, hopefully, understand my original post. There have been numerous studies and the book (and YouTube video) have details.

I'm sure VLCDs are not 'right for everyone', nothing is - but for the NHS to dismiss it out of hand is poor.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

I'd rather look at the original research itself and not have to buy a book or watch a youtube video!

However, from what I can find, it seems that Mosley created the diet specifically to combat high blood sugar levels in those with, or susceptible, to T2 diabetes. It certainly does not seem to be a weight-loss diet and using it for that purpose or if you do not have raised blood glucose levels might be ill-advised if not harmful.

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

It's working for me and thousands of other people. I'm determined to get fitter and healthier and to save the NHS from the burden of treating me for weight-related illnesses so that resource can be used for those that need it. I'll keep you up to date with my progress, so far it's been amazing :)

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

That's a good aim, but there are real dangers in people going on diets that are not designed for them or their situation and that could have serious consequences. Always consult your doctor before undertaking any such diet.

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

There are more dangers in eating incorrectly, being obese, getting type 2 diabetes and putting a strain on our health and the NHS. Yes, you should do your research, but what serious consequences are there to eating healthy, natural food, other than amazing good health? Unless you have other health issues, seeing a GP every time you change your diet seems a little mean to the NHS and overworked GPs.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

To be able to substantiate that claim about dangers, you'd need to provide evidence of benefits and harms. Remember that Mosely's diet was specifically for those with high blood sugar, not the general population, and not for those who just wanted to lose some weight.

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

This isn't true; Dr. Mosley's research, aligned with others' research, have proven this is a better way of eating. I've read quite a lot on the subject and would be more than happy to point you in the direction of some useful research if you are having difficulty finding it. I'm assuming you are a doctor or are in the medical profession. The claim of the NHS Livewell page about VLCDs does not reference any scientific research and was last updated almost a year ago. Their weight loss plan is heavy on carbs intake, something that helps spike blood sugar in a quite alarming way. It's been lovely to have this ongoing debate with you but I'm going to say a fond farewell and agree to disagree. I know what is working for me (and thousands of other people) and how amazingly healthy I'm becoming. All the best to you. I'll pop another post here in a few weeks when I've lost even more weight and my arthritis is even more improved. All the best.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

Sorry, what isn't true? If you have research, please provide it so we can see it.

Please realise that what happens to you personally tells us nothing about the diet.

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/254...

As you seem a little confused, I'm not the only one following this way of eating. Feel free to ask for any further information, I'm happy to help you do your research, I know some people can find it hard to search for information on the internet.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

Confused about what? I've asked you several times about evidence for the claims you made and this is the first you've provided. But I have no work to do here: you were making the claims. It's not up to me to provide what evidence you believe backs it up.

However, although you've provided two links, it's not at all clear what you believe they substantiate. One is about myths about obesity and the other is titled: "The effect of rate of weight loss on long-term weight management". You said:

"Dr. Mosley's research, aligned with others' research"

Neither of those papers were authored by Mosley. My question was about the evidence for Mosley's diet, the one you mentioned earlier. Where is Mosley's research?

jrwm profile image
jrwm in reply to Zeno

"The Blood Sugar Diet (BSD) is based on more than ten years of research carried out, by amongst others, scientists at Newcastle University in the UK. It is the first diet that in clinical trials has been shown to improve, even reverse, most cases of type 2 diabetes or prediabetes. It is all about getting rid of tummy fat and keeping it off.

Each of us is different and no one diet is going to work for everyone, so this is not a single diet, but a set of options.

The Blood Sugar Diet is based on eating a low carbohydrate Mediterranean style diet. This contains few refined, starchy carbohydrates (because these convert rapidly to sugar in your blood), lots of green and coloured vegetables, plenty of protein and, you may be pleased to hear, it also includes moderate amounts of healthy fats such as olive oil and even some dairy products such as full fat unsweetened yoghurt to keep you feeling full for longer." - Dr. Michael Mosley (10 years of research).

youtube.com/watch?v=6d-LMzI...

youtube.com/watch?v=SFDj_WO...

youtube.com/watch?v=o1HpS04...

Enjoy.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to jrwm

Sorry? Youtube videos? Seriously? Can you or can you not provide links to Mosley's research?

But are you now saying the two links you previously provided were not relevant?

Calapink profile image
Calapink in reply to Zeno

Buy Mosley’s book - it’s all in the book. It’s not even expensive, you can find used copies on Amazon.

Zeno profile image
Zeno in reply to Calapink

Books aren't evidence either. If anyone wants to make a claim, it's up to them to do the work and provide the evidence.

jrwm profile image
jrwm

I agree, the evidence is overwhelming and is finally getting through to people. Hopefully, the word will finally get through to those that need help.

benwl profile image
benwl

How many calories are you actually eating per day? And for how long are you planning to do this?

I think you maybe reading far more into the nhs's website than was intended, they don't "dismiss it out of hand" just warn people of the potential pitfalls, and the fact that you've not encountered them doesn't negate that advice, especially as you seem to be following a diet different from the "usual" low calorie meal replacements that are the main target of the nhs warning.

Zeno profile image
Zeno

Because videos are not research papers! If you know of his research - and have read it - why can't you simply provide a link to it? Why is this proving so difficult?

jrwm profile image
jrwm

Very interesting - on my VLCD I have now lost a staggering 31 lb and have dropped two dress sizes; I'm walking even more and feel amazing. I'm glad Dr. Mosley wrote his book :)

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