How much fat do we actually need? - Healthy Eating

Healthy Eating
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How much fat do we actually need?

There are some on this forum who think they need to eat a high-fat diet. There are others, like myself, who eat a predominantly low-fat diet. So let me ask how much fat is in your diet? Can you give an idea is terms of either weight or calories per day? Do you think that is enough? Why is it enough? Or do you think you should be eating even more fat?

Let me kick the ball rolling with my own take. The only fats I normally eat are naturally in plants, nuts, seeds, legumes, fruit and veg. My highest source of fats are as follows. I don't eat avocados but do have a few (say 4) nuts per day, usually walnuts or brazils. I also have about a tablespoon of ground flaxseed each day.

The only time I have oils is if I am eating out and there is no way to avoid oils. So for example last night I had a Pizza Express pizza with no added oil, no cheese (even vegan) as well as no tomatoes/paste.

Research shows the best ratio for someone with arthritis of omega-6 to omega-3 is 2-1. Paleo man/woman shows they had a ratio of around 1-1. My dietary goal is to maintain a ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 as near 1-1 as possible, and I think I probably achieve around 2-1. For anyone who does not know the ratio for anyone on the SAD diet is typically 20-1.

And that is why I eat a low fat diet. For my a big part of my lifestyle eating habits are about maintaining my O6/O3 ratio to be the healthiest possible.

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Wow

All that sounds complicated

Do you eat bread, potatoes etc?

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Redspot, I’d found Dr. Brooke Goldner’s 9-minute explanation of achieving (anti inflammatory) Omega 3s (flax seeds, chia, walnuts) balance ⚖️ with Omega 6s informative: "What Fats & Oils Hurt vs Help Explainer Video" :

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Don’t know if it might be of interest to you too? 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♀️

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Can only speak for myself, andyswarbs, but this has rung true 🔔 in my experience/ observation 👀,: i2.wp.com/lh3.googleusercon... , getyourenergyon.blogspot.co... , [With respect to TOFIs 🙏 😌 , of course ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI , bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00tkv7k , chartwellcancertrust.co.uk/... ).]

Dr. BG’s video merely serves as adjunct fat/ oil information, Andy (to ‘grease the wheels’ ⚙️⚙️ of thought 🤔 💭 💭 ).

Thank you kindly 🙏 ☺️ for raising this topic as it’s quite interesting to try to wrap one’s head 🤕 ✨ around fats/ oil conundrum 🧩 given the diversity ⬅️ 🤯 ➡️ of perspectives.

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Oh . . . yes . . . for me, the lower the fat (oil) the better I do (just from trial & error experiential learning’‘ 😣🔨 ). Not too many avocados 🥑, nuts 🥜 , or seeds øøø . . . (or inadvertently ingesting foods prepared with oil/ fat) to avoid problems 😫 🤤 😵 . (Consistently keeping inflammation low 🔥 ⤵️ is key to being able to function. 👍👍 ) Haven’t a clue 🤷‍♀️ as to what it is in weight or calories 🤦‍♂️ — just know the lower 📉 , the better for me (can’t speak for anyone else). The ratio O3/ O6 ratio stuff is fascinating!! 🤔✨✨ [Oh yes . . . & have reached point where I can safely eat occasional — dairy-free 🚫 🧀 (& 🐄- free) pizza!! Who’d a thunk it! 😆 😂 . . . Such ‘pain-free’ joy 🤗 from such a simple 🍕 pleasure. ☺️ 🤣 🙃 ]

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The presentation is completely wrong about Coconut oil which improves(increases) HDL which is good for us. See the results of recent experiment below:

bbc.co.uk/news/health-42608071

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I have to repost this, just cos it's funny. I think he actually is vegan or vegetarian, for whatever that's worth, but he likes to mock the extremists (and the food industry):

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Love ♥️ him to bits, TheAwfulAwesomeToad 🐸 !! 👍👍

(Cracks me up to no end! 😂 🤣 🙃 ) Simply brilliant!! 🌟✨

Thank you kindly for discovering & sharing JP Sears ( awakenwithjp.com/ ), 🐸 ! 👍👍

[For more JP more giggles: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... , m.youtube.com/user/AwakenWi... ]

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It’s wonderful your personal experience of coconut 🥥 oil 💧works well for you, Praveen55. 👍👍

Unfortunately, sadly 😔 , my personal experience of coconut 🥥 oil 💧 doesn’t work well for me. 😞

What I need to do for me, doesn’t affect what you need to do for you & vice versa. 👍👍 ☮️

To each his own. 😌 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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It was never about you and me. It is about authenticity of information available in public domain.

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My personal, direct, 1st-hand, cause-effect experience (reactions to ingesting foods) overrides studies, expert’s opinions, beliefs, etc., Praveen55. [I can only trust what my body’s ‘telling me’ in the here & now by how it’s reacting (to ingested foods); it directly affects my QoL (Quality of Life) in the here & now.]

My experience happens to reflect what BG discusses ( healthunlocked.com/cure-art... ), whether you or other experts agree, disagree, or have other ’differing’ experiences, studies, opinions, beliefs . . .

[I can only ‘talk about’ what reflects my experience; I ‘share’ what comes from my experience.]

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You share what comes from your experience & your ability to assess ⚖️ / judge 👨‍⚖️ the "authenticity of information available in public domain", Praveen55, that reflect your trusted studies, experts, experiences, opinions, beliefs, etc. . . 👍👍

Enjoy (revel in 🤗 ) what works well for you, Praveen55! ☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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Sounds like you have a rare allergic reaction to coconut oil.

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From experience 😣🔨 (& from what I’ve learned 🤓 from WFPB educators 👨‍⚕️ 👩‍🍳 : healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... , healthunlocked.com/cure-art...—-not-popeyes-olive-oyl ), avoiding oils/ fats has worked well (& continues to work well) for me, Notsoogood. 🙏 😌

(If/ when the approach/ results cease 🛑 working well 📉 , I’d modify 🙂 🔄 🙃 my approach accordingly.)

We each create/ follow our own path 👣 . . 👣 . . . & discover 🕵️‍♀️ what works well for ourselves along the way. ☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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Okay, I get it now. You avoid fats and all oils, not just coconut oil.

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Is that your kitty in the pic?

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Not my kitty, Catgirl1976, but Svetlana Petrova's 👩‍🎨 "Fat Cat" 🐈 , Zarathustra. For some reason, 🐱 👱‍♀️ 1️⃣9️⃣7️⃣6️⃣ , Zarathustra appears in paintings 🖼 around the world 🌍 🌏 🌎 ( fatcatart.com/gallery/?lang=en ) throughout pictorial history! 😯 🤔 . . .[Brings new meaning to "cat with 9 lives". ☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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She is what I call a troll or has been slightly misinformed.

I didn't watch the whole 9 mins of her rambling on, she probably said some things that were correct but not all.

She said that omega 6 comes from animal fats and veg oil....It probably does, I don't really know but it's not just those that it comes from. You get it from seeds and grains and veg as well and it's not a bad thing at all.

"Omega 6 raises cholesterol" and that's a bad thing?!... I don't think it is.

The lower the cholesterol, the more your body falls apart.

Telling people stuff like that is pretty dangerous and that is where I stopped listening to her.

That is why I call her a misinformed troll.

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Troll 👹 ??

🤔 💭

Kindly contact Dr. Goldner‘s husband 👨‍🦲, children 👬 , family 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦👨‍👩‍👦‍👦 , Lupus/ autoimmune patients, professional associations, etc. ( nutritionstudies.org/author... ) so they immediately remove themselves from her "👹y-ness".

Or, at very least, strip her of her credentials 📜 , associations, affiliations, . . . ( linkedin.com/in/brooke-gold... ) so she’s no longer allowed to practice her dangerously, misinformed-brand of medicine👩‍⚕️ or even injure her patients with ‘her ramblings’ 💬 💬 💬 . . .

It’d be a service, Matt2584, to spread word 🗣💬💬 of your assessment. Thank you for the heads up! I, too, have now ‘stopped listening 🛑👂 to her’. ☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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Hi Redspot

I eat some (white) potatoes. They are part of the nightshade family which has been shown to trigger my arthritis. Sweet potatoes are not a nightshade plant and so I can eat as much of them as I want.

Bread (& wheat) I eat around 99% wholemeal only and mostly homemade.

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Thx Andy

Interesting.....

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I agree Redspot, it does sound complicated and for me I would rather keep it simple, I am a simple kind of guy after all :).

But as I have said before, fat is an essential part of our daily needs, but it depends what fat that you eat though. That is my opinion anyhow.

Now as for me, I make sure I eat at least a teaspoon of coconut oil a day.

When I first started going natural and eating/drinking homemade smoothies (A few years ago) I used to add a teaspoon of coco oil to them.

But then I got fed up of cleaning the container after whizzing it up in the Nutribullet so I stopped using the oil for a while.

I think you should add oil to your diet and even skin.

I think of your insides like a machine and if the machine gets clogged up or slows down or whatever, you oil it to get it running smoothly again. That is what it is like for me, that is why I am consuming more coco oil, to get my insides working more fluidly.

I try to eat more avocados too. I make a nice pudding with an avocado and banana :).

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I personally have no idea how much fat I eat. I don't measure it, ration it, or attempt to eat more of it. I simply trust my body to know what it needs.

I get really quite upset at the dietician's habit of assuming human bodies are broken, and that we all need to pay attention to the latest pseudoscientific theory regarding how much of this or that we should titrate into our bodies ... the corollary of these theories being, if we fail to follow the instructions to the letter, we'll explode and die.

Animals without anything resembling a brain manage to eat the right amount of macro- and micronutrients to keep them in tip-top health. Cows and pandas and bears don't know anything about calories or carbs or omega-3 fatty acids, and miraculously, their bodies carry on working just fine.

Humans, until they invented nutritionism, also trusted their bodies to get things right. Nature doesn't provide the wrong things in any quantity, and human appetites don't desire the wrong things unless they're thrown off-kilter by modern synthetic non-foods. The idea that everything that nature does is wrong, and that human ingenuity is an improvement, is just a symptom of 21st century hubris. The reality is that humans are really, really bad at improving on nature. Veganism is as much a child of the modern obsession with replacing dirty old nature with technological "solutions" as are factory feedlots and fossil-fuelled soybeans.

The source of your own confusion, I suggest, is use of the word 'high' or 'low'. One has to ask: high in relation to what? If you answer: relative to the recommendations of the health authorities, it's worth bearing in mind that those recommendations represent a weird historical blip that arose 50 years ago and appears to be now going out of fashion. For the last 100,000 years or so, homo sapiens just ate what came naturally, and with any luck we'll be doing that again sometime soon.

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Supplemental thoughts 🤔💭 💭 :

You might enjoy Dr. Douglas Lisle’s evolutionary psychological/ sociological/ anthropological/ biological ‘ogicals’ . . . long-view perspective, TheAwfulAwesomeToad 🐸? . . 🤔💭 . . . 🤷‍♂️

(Over an hour 🕐 long, but you might find it interesting/ worthwhile in putting many elements (including modern day, man-made environmental ‘follies’ 😱 & dietarily off-kilter, ‘synthetic non-foods’ 🤯 into a larger▪️◾️◼️ , deeper ⬇️⬇️ , broader ⬅️➡️ historical context? 🤔 🤷‍♀️ ). Yes, I think the pendulum 🥢 is swinging back the other way 🔙 after (20th?) & 21st centuries hubristic ‘man-made’ tinkering has run amok . . . run its course . . . 😳 😯 🙃

The Pleasure Trap vs.The Ego Trap - Dr. Doug Lisle:

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[Aside: If interested in Dr. Douglas Lisle & Dr. Alan Goldhamer’s "The Pleasure Trap": healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... , healthpromoting.com/the-ple... ]

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☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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IMO, phosphate shortages will put a stop to all this. Mined phosphate is projected to run out - or at least become incredibly expensive - within the next 50 years or so. I imagine fossil fuels will increase in price too, over the same timeframe. The combination of those two costs should stop industrial agriculture dead in its tracks, and we'll get some sanity back into the food supply.

On the flip side, I imagine governments will waste ever-larger sums of tax money trying to keep the gravy train running, so we've still got a few decades of crap food ahead of us.

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If that’s what it takes, TheAwfulAwesomeToad 🐸 :

. . . Phosphate fertilizer ‘ , ’ , ’ going poof 💨

. . . (having to revert back to ole’ fashion

. . . 🐴💩 . . 🐮💩. . 🐔💩. . 🐵💩 . . . ,

. . . crop 🌱 🔄 ♻️, etc., then so be it!)

. . . . . . [Oh, it BE! 😂 😯 🙃 ]

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Ditto for 🦕 🦴 🔥 fuel , suffering the (double) death 💀💀 of

. . . “going the way of the 🦖s” (yet again). 🙃 😬

. . . (Renewables 🌞☀️. . 🌬💨. . . 🌊 . . . 🔋⚡️🚗 . . .

. . . are ‘the future’ 🔮 & can’t come fast🏃‍♀️… enough.)

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Yes, yes . . . 🛑-ing 🤑 🤡 🎃 . . . dead in its 🛤’s.

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Yes, hoping 🙏 sanity 🤪 😌 can be achieved

. . . in time ⏱ to restore ⚖️ & ☯️ to severe 🌐 issues.

If only we can 🛑

. . . "Shooting ourselves in the 🦶💥🔫 " &

. . . "🔪-ing off our 👃 to spite our 😶" . . . ☺️ 🙃

.

🤷‍♀️ 🤦‍♂️

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Blathering 🎭 aside:

Sad 😔 , depressing 😞 . . .

. . . a bequeathment of escalating 📶 problems

. . . . . . .🚫 🥬 🐝 🦏 . . . 🔥 🌍 🌪 . . . 🌊 🗾 🏊‍♀️ . . .

. . . for children, grandchildren 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 . . . yet to be 🤰🤱

. . . for how many generations to come 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 👨‍👩‍👦‍👦 👨‍👩‍👧‍👧 ?

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🤔

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All for what?

. . . Enrichment 💰 of few 🧐 ?

. . . . . suffering of many 🏟 ?

. . . . . . . & eventually (soon enough) suffering of all 🌐 ? 😳

. . . . . . . . . 🤯 🤷‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️

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Can significant, meaningful change 🌚 🌝

. . . happen fast enough ⚡️ to right ⚖️ the sinking ship 🚢 ?

. . . Or, do we each keep bailing 🌊 🥄💧 🥄 💧to just keep afloat 🎈? 😳

. . . Or, do we quietly 🤫, carry on 🙈 🙉 🙊 . . .

.

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Young ‘inheritors’ 👼 👫👭 unconscionably burdened 😔 😞

. . . as old bequeath-ers move on ⚰️ 💀 . . .

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All for what?

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Seemingly inexpensive modern-day ‘Bread 🍞 & Circus 🎪 ’ :

. . . 🍔 🍟🥤 📺 ⚽️ 🏈 🕹 . . . ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bre... )

. . . . . . to appease ‘the masses’🏟 only to pay the actual high price

. . . . . . . . . in ruined bodily ♿️ 🤤 health 🧟‍♀️ 🧟‍♂️ 🧛🏻‍♀️ . . . & (irretrievably?)

. . . . . . . . . damaged planetary 🌏 🌘 ☄️ health 🦠 🥀 💥 ?

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😳 😯 🤯

.

The joke 🃏 is on us . . .

. . . as we blindly 😎 , silently 🤐 ‘go along’ . . 🚶‍♀️. .🚶‍♂️. .

. . . . . . 🐑 🐑 🐑 . . .🐑-like . . & . .🐑-ishly.

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😂 😂 😂

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Blessedly 🙏 , more & more are awakening 😴💤 😳 . . .

. . . continue trying 🥄💧 🥄💧 to right ☯️ the ship 🌏 . . .

. . . . . . using 🧠 💪 & 🗣💬 to create 👩‍🌾 👨‍🍳 💁‍♀️ substantive change 🌚 🌝 .

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☺️ 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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TAD said>> Humans, until they invented nutritionism, also trusted their bodies to get things right.

I might add "until humans invented processed foods." The food industry has been given a relatively free reign to replace foods with manufactured ones. The major limitation is that in tests (probably on rats etc) that no dire consequences have been found, which is hardly an endorsement. And thus was high-fructose corn-syrop created...

These additives distort the taste buds, then they distort the gut. Then the body can get nothing right.

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It appears we agree on something :)

The food industry has not just been given free reign, it's been positively encouraged to replace actual food with synthetic lookalikes.

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I think we agree on a lot. Even in the highly contentious cholesterol we have common ground. At the heart :-) we both have a love of happy, healthy and long life and believe that what goes into our mouths has a profound influence, so much so that it can overrides ones genes.

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“The reality is that humans are really, really bad at improving on nature”

I agree with you, Toad.

Look at what humans have done to this beautiful planet regarding fracking, oil drilling, mass deforestation for palm oil, burning fossil fuels and so on and so on.

They say humans are the intelligent species, THEY being the government/mainstream media.

How can destroying the planet, killing off animals and your own species be intelligent?

I guess it’s only intelligent to the brainwashed sheep out there :(.

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For information:

Statement below is being quoted from the book -

Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber,

Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids

Institute of Medicine

THE NATIONAL ACADEMIES PRESS

Washington, DC

''Fat is a major source of fuel energy for the body and aids in the

absorption of fat-soluble vitamins and carotenoids. Neither an

Adequate Intake (AI) nor Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)

is set for total fat because there are insufficient data to determine

a defined level of fat intake at which risk of inadequacy or prevention

of chronic disease occurs.

A Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) is not set for total fat because there is no

defined intake level of fat at which an adverse effect occurs.''

Chapter 8, page no. 422

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Cronometer suggests around 25-30% of my calories come from fat, although it obviously varies day to day. Mostly from coconut, cooking oils and some from the food itself. I'd describe my diet as paleo-ish.

Carbs make up around 40-50% of my caloric intake.

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60-80% of my eneegy comes from fats. 80% is when I'm being good. I'm on holiday at the moment so the last 4 days have been lower than 70%.

It will all even out after Easter and I'm not too worried :)

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My view is that it's all about doing what is the right thing for you and if you're happy with doing what you do then that's up to you.

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Hmm. About 80% fat for me...mostly olive and avocado oil. I'm not crazy about coconut oil either, though I do use it. Grass-fed butter and cream, yes. A spoon of fish oil every day (yuck).

Rest of the diet is green veggies, not too much protein, and berries for dessert.

What that means in terms of eating: lots of vegetables roasted in EVOO, or salads w/dressings.

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Snap! It's working very well for me :)

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Protein requirement is minimum 0.8 gm per kg of desired body weight for long term good health. That means a person weighing 150 lbs must consume 50 - 60 gm protein per day. For short term, it may be okay with reduced or no protein intake but not in the long term.

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I eat meat and eggs. Plenty, I think...just not the primary focus of my meals the way it once was.

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I guessed so. But I was not sure, therefore I mentioned it just as a reminder. Anyway, all the best on your KETO journey!

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Thanks. I am anxious about boosting autophagy, so I purposely keep it on the lowish side...but I also exercise a lot, too. I THINK (but do not know) that one answer might be to cycle. Eat a lot one day, almost none, another.

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OMAD is other option.

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it's kind of what i do...

Often coffee around 12-2, w ghee and mct oil. Still haven't been able to learn whether that breaks it or not. Everyone has their own (absolutely certain!) opinion.

Problem: I have a BMI hovering around 20. Don't want to lose any more weight.

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my dad swore by his daily cod liver oil. He tried to convert me to it, but failed.

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OMG I understand. It is disgusting.

I know u are vegan. I have a great omega 3 cracker recipe--nothing but golden flax seeds and chia seeds flavored w/dash of soy sauce and black pepper. Addictive.

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Can I suggest, the question I wanted answering is WHY you consume the amount of fat that you do. TAD replied probably a kind answer which is gut feeling. Afaik Keto demands a very high fat content, as I understand it. So I can see that someone on keto has a defined amount of fat in order to maintain ketosis, or hopefully maintain it. But if you are not on keto I am interested in asking if there is a specific judgement, hopefully scientific as to how much fat you consume.

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For those who are metabolically robust, it really does not make much difference whether energy comes from carb-rich diet or fat-rich diet as long as the energy intake does not exceed bodies' requirements.

Those with impaired metabolism e.g. overweight, obese, pre-diabetes, insulin resistance, T2D and other similar conditions may not be able to metabolise carbohydrate efficiently. Therefore, they should consume lower amount of carbohydrate and any shortfall in energy should be compensated by adding healthy fat. Carb should be consumed as per one's tolerance level. In KETO approach, carb is limited to about 20 - 25 gm in the beginning, protein to roughly 1 gm per kg of desired body weight. Rest of the energy should be derived from healthy fat. Once healthy weight is achieved, intake of carb can be increased to individual tolerance level and fat can be reduced accordingly.

In KETO carb is defined not fat. In fact, fat is the last part of macro which is the balance of energy after carb and protein have been determined.

Currently, majority of the population( >50 %) fall in the second category.

In terms of numbers, an average person weighing 150 lbs following low carb diet may be consuming the following:

Carb, mostly complex: around 100 - 120 gm

Protein: 60 - 70 gm

Fat: 100 - 130 gm

The above numbers are subject to some variations depending on individual's physical activities.

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I consume this amount of fat (30%) because it just happens to be the amount my diet contains. I don't limit fat, but I also don't target a specific amount. I try to limit unstable fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils, deep frying oils).

Fat consumption is going to be 40% today though, because I'm going to have a bit of my Easter egg :)

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