If you get invited to a friend's hous... - Gluten Free Guerr...
If you get invited to a friend's house for a Sunday roast, do you ask them to clean the oven?
Food can get crossed contamiated in an oven used for normal gluten dishes unless it is clean. There was an article about this in Crossed Grain a few years ago.
You can also get cross contamination in an oven if glutenous food is baked with gf food because water evaporates and reconcondenses on cooler surfaces and depending on the fat and water content of the food being baked the surface temeratures of the foods would vary so cross contamination can occur and I would avoid gf food baked with non gf food.
A really easy way of dealing with this is to leave the oven on after baking with gluten and putting a dish with water in so the water evaporates and then just wipe it out.
This is a subject that would have to be approached diplomatically.
I generally don't eat food cooked at friends houses - they know it is too hard for them to avoid the minute levels of cross-contamination that affect me. I offer to take my own food, and if they are happy with that I eat my food while other people eat theirs. Can be tricky - my mother-in-law is so affronted by the idea that she has stopped inviting her son (my husband) to the fortnightly meal we had before I gave up gluten.
The contamination level would be so low that it would be extremely unlikely of problems I believe.
The same problem could occour if you stood to close to a bakery store while snifing the aroma that the wheat might float in the air and ???
Completely agree - my question was one of: what's the *real* science behind this? Or is this more a question of "gluten anxiety" (from which, I like all coeliacs suffer).
I don't think the scientific argument about "gluten-containing-steam" stacks up, frankly.
Gluten is composed of proteins which are long-chain molecules - one of the reasons why bread is glutinous is that gluten provides the stickiness (which is why substitutes like guar gum have to be used in GF cooking to achieve the same end). They are not very volatile so unlikely to evaporate in the way described and if they did the levels would be negligible. Also nature of physics is that water constantly evaporates - albeit at a faster rate when cooking. So if the "gluten in steam theory" were true, it would still occur even at room temperature. So in theory if you were in the same room as a loaf of conventional bread you would be "glutened". This, clearly is nonsense.
The more likely situation is that in someone's house using gluten there is more background contamination on work surfaces, hands, cooking utensils and this is the most likely cause of contamination in the scenario outlined. My wife, (who is wheat intolerant) is a child-minder and has to prepare wheat-containing foods for the children she looks after and even though she is very careful, occasionally gets a reaction simply from handling and accidentally transferring wheat.
Think we have to be very careful about accepting scientific-sounding theories which could cause a lot of hassle unnecessarily.
Show me research of where it has been proven, then I'll believe it. Until then, Occam's razor applies: i.e. the most likely cause is the obvious one. i.e. "normal" cross-contamination.
There was an article in CUK's Crossed Grain warning of cross contamination from ovens and I was surprised by it.
I think the 3 most likely causes of cross contamination from an oven would be:
1) Where pizza's were cooked on open shelves and then a gf pizza cooked on the same shelf.
2) Where glutenous and non glutenous foods are baked together.
3) Possibly in a fan oven where the fan is the source of cross contamination.
Hi Jerry
Understand the concern... hate that sinking feeling you get when eating away from home - had it yesterday in a meeting in a hotel where they served up dodgy food (despite two coeliacs being there and the hotel being warned in advance - a) most of the food was full of gluten and b) the so called "safe" food was a chicken portion with soy sauce.... when challenged they said "oh the chef makes his own soy sauce" (yeah right!!!). So I had a "meal" of plain potatoes and mangetout...
Anyway, getting back to the point. 1) is a clear "conventional" cross-contamination case, 2) could be argued to be partially the same issue, 3) I remain to be convinced on and would like to see some more scientific justification from CUK. (don't get me started on CUK)...
One of the issues is that journalists (who will write the magazine) are a funny bunch (I worked in a huge magazine company for two years, so know what they are like) and will always value a good story over scientific fact. If you want a good book to read, try Bad Science by Dr. Ben Goldacre where he discusses the media, use of statistics, scientific studies and the placebo effect. Fascinating stuff. Of course some journos are thorough, scientific, etc but these are the exception, rather than the rule in my experience.
Ultimately, you are right to be concerned - its your body and you have to feel comfortable. However, I think the social impact of asking people to clean their ovens and ensuing stress will probably do more damage to your health than the probably low levels of gluten contamination. I for one would want to see the scientific justification in a proper controlled study before taking such steps.
Or the glutenous item is cooked on the oven shelf above the GF item. My daughter had rustled up a pizza(for them) GF oven chips, salad & tuna(me) Had felt the usual cramps & had the metallic taste I usually get after being 'crossed' .. Wasn't until later that I realised what had happened.
Perhaps we should compile the "D scale"? A bit like the Beaufort scale for wind, but for airborne gluten. 
So if the bakery were cooking gluten free bread it would be a Force 0 (safe to walk past); doughnuts would be Force 5 (walk the other side of the road) and a bloomer with seeds on would be Force 10 (stay indoors, shut the windows, call the authorities)
I have never had a problem eating a roast or anything else cooked by friend or family as long as the ingredients are gluten-free & cooked separately & yes I am a coeliac & one who for a very long time had to stick to a lactose free diet as well. We must all remember that like everybody else we can get tummy upsets from other causes,
Thank you GFG's!
meonioni - I think Jerry answered your question.
Jerry - nice tip with the steam clean idea and yes this would have to be approached very diplomatically.
LouisParker - I'm sorry to hear that. I've been sending this link to friends and family recently which seems to help:
coeliac.ie/gf_living/eating...
Tony62 - wise words indeed.
roscoe - perhaps you're right but is it worth the risk?
judithr - good point regarding tummy upsets from other causes.
You might ask yourself what would be worse; taking what is probably a very low risk and dining
with non-coeliacs or becoming an outcast and a recluse.
I know nobody who would even consider cleaning their oven for me.
There are some who probably would never speak to me again if I even suggested it.
Maybe we should try to set up a coeliac colony on an island; like the leper colonies of a hundred years ago, where we could all live happily together. Please could it be somewhere warm though.
The real answer to this problem has to be the development of a quick, certain, cheap gluten content testing kit.
Let's raise an army and invade Sicily!
More seriously... should we post the challenge to invent a quick, certain, cheap gluten content testing kit on a crowd sourcing site like Innocentive?
Might the likes of Coeliac UK, Juvela, DS etc be prepared to fund a reward?
The technology already exists and instead of using a mass spectrometer they use 2 mini lasers pointed at right angles to what has to be tested and this gives a signal that measures the peaks of the spectrum digitally from above.
Imagine a mountain range and instead of comparing identicallly scaled picture's to compare peaks, have the peaks highlighted as an intensity, so you are looking down on the peaks and it looks like a bar graph of differring strengths.
You could have it calibrated for wheat, barley and Rye or have oats and lactose as well.
You could also have an app so that it could be used to test gold and diamonds and have it in a mobile phone attachment. It could be calibrated for many things.
As for funding a reward I don't think the manufacturers of codex wheat products would want a device that shows traces of gluten in their codex wheat. But airports and the police would love it for obvious reasons.
That Phil, cracks me up! And as for a colony of coeliac I'd rather be a recluse amongst wheaties! Oh I already am...
You always make us laugh Phil. When I first saw this Q I misread and thought it was about getting someone in to clean 'my' oven which made me quite excited! Gluten testing kit sounds great idea. Any inventors on here?
Jerry, I almost took your laser idea seriously when I started reading!
First though - lugging high voltage power supplies around to fire the laser. Second though - hang on a second. We've got lasers all over our house in CD and DVD players. So it now sounds plausible. From my physics lessons too many years ago I think mass spectrometers require the specimen to be in a vacuum chamber?
The trouble is, you need to take samples from all over the food or better still throw the whole lot into the testing device.
Next problem - how do you make sure the device is cleaned of any traces of gluten before proceeding with the next test?
Can you cut me in on the royalties when you patent the prototype?
Phil, the use of lasers changes how the spectrum is viewed and the laser beam and not the lasers touch/scsan the sample.
You have an enquiring mind and question things and thats good. When we use a mobile phone we want to know its functions not how it functions and even simple mechanical tools that have been around for donkeys years could be deemed complicated. Take for instance a corkscrew, we all know what a corkscrew looks like and does but imagine describing one to someone who has never seen one and then try and explain the maths of the length of the metal sprial. Look up helix on wikipedia and you will see the maths, not exactly good conversation at the dinner party LOL.
As for the Carribean now you're talking, I'll get my hat...
Regarding Sicily, I think there would be too much pasta and pizza there. The Carribean would be my choice: rice, beans, rum, happy people and reggae!
